Can't they be the same in the water?

[Aavataris.5720]

We all build builds based on our weapons on land, but when going into the water it's like "no, nothing works".

¿Couldn't we have the same weapons in the water that we have on land?

 

To consider:

- The skills are already done, simplify the animations with the ones that already exist (It does not need to be more complex, the work from ArenaNet have done with the ground weapons is great and and if some animations do not match at the beginning it is the least of it), right?

- I love that it is one of the most versatile games and with complex builds, but underwater combat is not as polished and worked as the rest. Why not simplify it a bit with what works?

- Creating and implementing a complete and efficient underwater system, like the terrestrial one, can take a lot of time (I'm not against it, it would be GREAT), but it's unrealistic for it to happen soon. This one is an easy solution, meanwhile.

 

---

P.D.: ¿Why the Necromancer is the only one who has Underwater Wells? Trigger effects around himself or an enemy, but everyone else can't use underwater wells ...and since there is now an option to "target beneficial skills at allies", isn't it possible to change it?

Edited August 28, 2022 by Aavataris.5720

[Teratus.2859]

Very old argument that many of us still complain about.

 

While there are some players against it, there are plenty of us who still love underwater content in Gw2 and want more of it.
Gw2 still has one of the best underwater systems in any MMO, and I for one continue to hope it's potential will one day be utilized.

Adding more weapon's, skills and build diversity to underwater content is a very basic way to fix many of the bigger problems with it.
Probably won't be easy to mix the weapon pools, and new skills will need to be made naturally which costs time.
But if Anet did do this it would drastically improve the underwater content in Gw2, and make it ready for expansion with more water focused content.

There are many of us who still want to visit the Quaggan and Largos homelands some day and any story that focuses on this "Horror in the Deep" is going to be majorly disappointing if we do not get a decent amount of underwater content when dealing with it.

[Arnox.5128]

I 95% agree. Make all the "land" weapons usuable underwater as well, and allow us to use the spear and speargun on land as new weapons.

Would be a bit of work, but I think it would definitely be worth it, and we get two new weapons to play with. At the moment, underwater gear is such a chore to get and is too niche in the game to give much excitement.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Arnox.5128

[Aavataris.5720]

3 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Very old argument that many of us still complain about.

 

While there are some players against it, there are plenty of us who still love underwater content in Gw2 and want more of it.
Gw2 still has one of the best underwater systems in any MMO, and I for one continue to hope it's potential will one day be utilized.

Adding more weapon's, skills and build diversity to underwater content is a very basic way to fix many of the bigger problems with it.
Probably won't be easy to mix the weapon pools, and new skills will need to be made naturally which costs time.
But if Anet did do this it would drastically improve the underwater content in Gw2, and make it ready for expansion with more water focused content.

There are many of us who still want to visit the Quaggan and Largos homelands some day and any story that focuses on this "Horror in the Deep" is going to be majorly disappointing if we do not get a decent amount of underwater content when dealing with it.

Any of the 2:

- If they change and fully implement an underwater system, with maps and everything, that would be wonderful.

- But being realistic, adapting from land to water is something more short-term and easy (at least while).

The issue is to improve the current system

[Daevhalla.7823]

Part of a problem is there isn't actually any meaningful reason for the players to polish their underwater combat skills. Because of that, all the mechanics and abilities (or lack of them) get overlooked, especially with the current state of balance in game with the new specs.

I personally love underwater content and find it sad I don't have a reason to do more of it, beyond map completion.

Also the last underwater combat overhaul happened during PoF time, and it just showed how behind the times it was.

 

[kettering.6823]

My concern is less the weapons (I like the three underwater weapons) and more that half your skills stop working. Underwater Mechanist is particularly egregious (maybe their terrible underwater combat is what made the devs overcompensate everything else about the class, ha ha). I'm leveling a thief right now and can't use many of the movement skills underwater. It's just really annoying. 

If we were to change the weapons, I would like if they brought the 3 standard underwater weapons onto land, too. If we had land spears, we could finally get a lancer/dragoon class, and that would be so cool. Though tridents and harpoons are pretty water specific, so maybe it wouldn't work so well with them lol. 

But I really hope underwater combat gets some love and attention, because honestly it has wonderful potential. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by kettering.6823

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

2 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I 95% agree. Make all the "land" weapons usuable underwater as well, and allow us to use the spear and speargun on land as new weapons.

Would be a bit of work, but I think it would definitely be worth it, and we get two new weapons to play with. At the moment, underwater gear is such a chore to get and is too niche in the game to give much excitement.

Absolutely want them to do this. Give life to the old aquatic weapons while also making underwater combat less irritating. Win win situation. 

[Maria Murtor.7253]

If underwater combat makes your land build obsolete, it's only fair if you get new (support) skills and traits for underwater combat in return. They should have done this ten years ago. And that's why many, many people despise underwater combat: For the most part you suffer from being in the water.

[Endaris.1452]

The main thing that holds underwater combat back is the fact that there is no such thing as "ground targetted AoE" which immensily takes away from the way you can even play the game.

It is basically skills working on/around your target or skills working around yourself with the former being unusable without an enemy/action cam which completely removes any component to aim skills or avoid skills through just movement which is an absolute core feature of land combat (get out of the red circles!). As it is now, whatever is being cast while in range is most definitely going to hit unless using dodge or another active skill component that lets you block or evade the hit. Combined with the relatively slow movement speed underwater, the amount of disabled skills and the lack of variety among underwater weapons cause underwater combat to have near zero depth because you can essentially only spam all you've got while having the few utilities equipped that are actually still usable/good underwater.

Even if regular weapons become usable underwater, any weapon that relies heavily on ground-targetted AoEs like Ele Staff/Scepter will remain utterly useless and it won't fix the core problem of lacking interactivity.

To fix that one, aside from fixing the aim thing, I feel like endurance regen could be set to twice its rate per default and the dodge could be replaced by a longer ranged dash, akin to daredevil's long dodge to allow players to reposition themselves more easily and more frequently in a 3D environment. And to make that work, obviously adjust or rework the abilities that are currently giving players long evade/block windows so that these can be replaced with skills that actually have a main focus on attacking the opponent rather than using them to patch up the lack of defensive tools.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Endaris.1452

[Teratus.2859]

15 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

I 95% agree. Make all the "land" weapons usuable underwater as well, and allow us to use the spear and speargun on land as new weapons.

Would be a bit of work, but I think it would definitely be worth it, and we get two new weapons to play with. At the moment, underwater gear is such a chore to get and is too niche in the game to give much excitement.

It doesn't have to be all of them, each class only really needs a couple at most to be usable underwarer.

And yeah finding a way to mix the weapons will allow for some water weapons to be used on land, Spear and Trident being the main two I know a lot of people would love to see, especially spear.

14 hours ago, Aavataris.5720 said:

The issue is to improve the current system

Imo extending the weapon pool for underwater content is one big part of doing that.
Anet have made improvements to water content over the years such as rebalancing and adding the Skimmer's underwater ability, giving us that underwater mount many, myself included long asked for.

The other part that needs work is the currently locked skills which is also contributing to the main problem with underwater content, the lacking build diversity.

If Anet can fix these two specific problems, Underwater content wont just be much better, it will be significantly better! and more than ready at that point to get a bigger focus in future content, which is what quite a lot of us want to see.

12 hours ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

If underwater combat makes your land build obsolete, it's only fair if you get new (support) skills and traits for underwater combat in return. They should have done this ten years ago. And that's why many, many people despise underwater combat: For the most part you suffer from being in the water.

I also feel like that is a big part of why so many players have disliked the content all these years.
If they improved the way we can experience the content then I expect a lot of people's opinions on it will change.. not everyone's but at good amount I would bet.

And it's not like this hasn't happened in the past either.. remember mounts?
There were a lot of us against the inclusion of mounts back in the day, I was one of them and feared Gw2 was just caving to all the nagging and was going to ruin the game with some pointless status quo generic mounts like you see in every other mmo..
But boy were we wrong about that one lol

Gw2 didn't just do mounts good, it did mounts better than anyone in the industry.. and even to this day there is no MMO with better mounts than Gw2.

The completely blew expectations and fears out of the water and I fully believe they can do that again with underwater content.
Underwater content again already being better in Gw2 than any other MMO.. that foundation already has so much potential to build on.. and much of the work is already done.

13 hours ago, Daevhalla.7823 said:

Part of a problem is there isn't actually any meaningful reason for the players to polish their underwater combat skills. Because of that, all the mechanics and abilities (or lack of them) get overlooked, especially with the current state of balance in game with the new specs.

That's exactly why we need it.

There is story brewing for underwater, the biggest of which being this "Horror in the Depths" which has a quite a lot of story driven players interested and curious about what's going on down there.

It will be very disappointing if we don't get to explore that in it's native territory, underwater content.

It's all good to have big underwater threats in the game but if they all come up to land to be dealt with then what's the point, might as well just have constant land threats.

We've had 10 years of content based on land..
Lets have a change and do a story underwater.. or in the sky or in depths of the world which is no longer inhabited by a massive subterranean elder dragon.

There is so much more to Tyria than just the surface land, I want see what's in the oceans and deep underground and even above the clouds, all those other places have potential.. the mists too.

[JayHog.3280]

Yeah, underwater stuff sucks. Made a LI build for engineer. Works great on land... Can't use it underwater, it's so bad that when doing story missions, I purposely avoid quest lines that involve stuffing me in water (Even if it's going to be unavoidable eventually).

[Fueki.4753]

While I'd love to see them improve underwater, they have mostly give up on it.

They disregard it so much, that they can't even be bothered to make complete weapon sets anymore.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

It feels like a lot of the new spec skills don't even work underwater. Surprising for an underwater dragon.

Also was anyone else disappointed we took an elevator to Soowon instead of swimming down and exploring as we go?

[Fueki.4753]

7 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

It feels like a lot of the new spec skills don't even work underwater. Surprising for an underwater dragon.

Also was anyone else disappointed we took an elevator to Soowon instead of swimming down and exploring as we go?

I certainly was disappointed that the "Deep-Sea Dragon" got put on dry land.

However, I wasn't even slightly surprised. After all, I even joked about them doing so over the years.

All that's left are some tentacle horrors in the lore, that the current developers might not even remember existing.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[SinisterSlay.6973]

23 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I certainly was disappointed that the "Deep-Sea Dragon" got put on dry land.

However, I wasn't even slightly surprised. After all, I even joked about them doing so over the years.

All that's left are some tentacle horrors in the lore, that the current developers might not even remember existing.

Worse yet the deep sea dragon had to fly up to a tower.

I guess the air is sort of the same water.  Air is just less dense water.

[JayHog.3280]

1 hour ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

It feels like a lot of the new spec skills don't even work underwater. Surprising for an underwater dragon.

Also was anyone else disappointed we took an elevator to Soowon instead of swimming down and exploring as we go?

Not really, given how it's basically modern tech, it makes sense why she'd be in a factory giving power, oddities aside.