The actual balance of Mechanist

[GWstinkt.6094]

Even after recent adjustments, Mechanist is still viewed as the meme OP build and is still massively over represented in PVE content where it seems to outshine many other professions. Meanwhile there are plenty of builds that in theory bench way higher than Mechanist. So what gives?

Benchmarks vs Encounters

This whole issue ties into the recent revelation of: benchmarks are not real encounters. Benchmarks are performed by highly skilled players under ideal conditions on a stationary, passive enemy with a massive health pool. This setting allows players to perfectly execute and hit the ideal rotation over a long period of time. While this is a great way of standardized limit testing, it doesn't tell us much about how a build actually performs in real content like Open World, Meta Events or Instanced PVE.
Many builds rely on hitting key abilities and burst windows and on clean, uninterrupted rotations. Many bosses and encounters can mess with these through moving, attacking, changing phase or adding boss mechanics the player has to deal with. This means that even the best, well trained players simply cannot achieve benchmark numbers in many real encounters as their circumstances simply don't allow it. Here is where Mechanist comes into play.

Mechanist

While Mechanist is notoriously easy to play, the difficulty or complexity of the class is not the core issue here. Rather it is how reliable and consistent the specs output is.
Mechanist and its power build in particular draws its strength from a very simple, short rotation without any major burst windows, long cooldowns or critical, missable abilities as well as its powerful but fairly passive pet, which can still output damage even when the mechanist is disabled or dealing with mechanics. It has no major windup, combos or rotations that the encounter can mess up in any way.

This means that Mechanist functions fairly close to its limit in most situations and when played by most players, while many other builds struggle to meet their full potential even when played by experienced players.
This is the main reason so many people are picking up Mechanist: because they can be very successful, almost anywhere, almost immediately. This is also the reason why Mechanists tend to dominate dps meters in many groups and situations. Not because every other build is less capable than Mechanist, but because Mechanists will almost always operate close to their limit while others struggle to reach theirs.
This balancing issue is not so much about professions performance limits or ease of use and more about reliability.

Balancing Reliability

I believe the solution to this problem is actually fairly straight forward. Mechanist and all other builds that offer high reliability and independence from encounter variations need to have their performance limits lowered a decent bit below that of builds that are less reliable.
In practice, this will mean that builds like Mechanist will still perform really well pretty much everywhere but don't directly compete or outperform with less reliable builds in situations where these are actually being pulled off well. That would make reliable builds a great choice for anyone looking for lower intensity or more generalist builds while those who are really into using and abusing GW2s amazing combat system are properly rewarded with higher performance in situations where they can and do pull of their builds fully.

As for real numbers, personally I would suggest that reliable builds should bench just a bit higher than DPS Support builds. I believe that power Mechanist sitting at about 30-32k DPS on the golem would in practice result in viable and desirable but not overwhelming performance in real encounters.
I expect that Mechanist would still see above average use, as it's a very versatile profession and many players seem to prefer reliability and ease of use over complexity but it would make more room for other builds for those of us looking for performance over comfort.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Their autoattack simply does a ridiculous amount of dps. I personally don't play mechanist, but honestly if i'd played mecha i would be frustrated that skills don't feel impactfull at all since your AA deals 80% of your max achievable dps. 

If a class AA hits 50% more dps then any other specialization with its autoattack there's simply something wrong.

[Lysico.4906]

The amount of effort the op puts into cries for nerfing a class.   Imagine if it was his class that was done to?   Op, how about you all for buffs to your favorite class??     But easier to try to tear things down then make a better gaming worlds 

[GWstinkt.6094]

47 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

If a class AA hits 50% more dps then any other specialization with its autoattack there's simply something wrong.

There's nothing wrong with simpler, lower intensity classes. I think it's great there are viable options for anyone who doesn't want to or isn't able to play complex builds. I just think that currently, in real encounters, Mechanist simply over performs because it's output is very independent of the player and encounter.

10 minutes ago, Lysico.4906 said:

The amount of effort the op puts into cries for nerfing a class.   Imagine if it was his class that was done to?   Op, how about you all for buffs to your favorite class??     But easier to try to tear things down then make a better gaming worlds 

Lul

[the krytan assassin.9235]

28 minutes ago, GWstinkt.6094 said:

There's nothing wrong with simpler, lower intensity classes.

There's nothing wrong with having a class that is able to deal a fair amount of dps while not having to play the piano all the time. There is something wrong if a class has to do nothing at all to do competitive amount of damage. 15k dps should be plenty of dps for an AA. Maybe add another 8-10k when casting ~4 skills off cd. Mecha is doing 29k dps while afk.

 

High intensity should always outperforms low intensity builds. People should be rewarded for their skills, especially when improving your own skills is a fundamental part of gw2 current endgame/end goals. 

 

[GWstinkt.6094]

5 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

High intensity should always outperforms low intensity builds. People should be rewarded for their skills, especially when improving your own skills is a fundamental part of gw2 current endgame/end goals. 

Pressing more buttons is not more skillful and playing complicated or difficult builds is not "a fundamental part of gw2 current endgame" for a lot of players. The tryhards in this game are actually the minority by a large margin.

Like I said in the post, the issue here isn't that  mechanist is too easy and therefor doesn't deserve good dps.
The issue is that mechanist will almost always perform close to its limit while many other builds simply cannot. So if Mechanist has the same upper limit as other strong dps specs, but only Mechanist is able to fully utilize this power everywhere, then ofcourse Mechanist will end up outperforming other builds in real encounters.

Therefor, builds upper limits should be balanced around how often and reliable these limits can be reached in the actual game.
Wether or not it is difficult or high intensity to do so should only be a minor consideration.

[draxynnic.3719]

56 minutes ago, Lysico.4906 said:

The amount of effort the op puts into cries for nerfing a class.   Imagine if it was his class that was done to?   Op, how about you all for buffs to your favorite class??     But easier to try to tear things down then make a better gaming worlds 

Well, the alternative is to scale up high-intensity builds. Just depends on where the 'sweet spot' in difficulty is intended to be.

The general gist is that the benchmarks are generally intended to be practice targets, not performance measures. It's a lot harder to do, but balance should probably be more around what a typical player can achieve in a typical encounter, not on a golem benchmark or what a top player can achieve against a boss who's mechanics make it specifically weak against that build. (Seriously, let confusion shine against bosses with high attack rates. That's what it's supposed to do, and it promotes having more builds in the meta overall if some builds really shine against one boss but you want a different build against another boss.)

[Tails.9372]

3 hours ago, GWstinkt.6094 said:

independence from encounter variations

There is no such thing as "independence from encounter variations". The issue is simply that most encounters aren't "varied" and as a result builds like rifle mech work almost everywhere without drawback. The only parts where this isn't the case are the competitive gamemodes as there they are faced with situations where simply "spamming 1" doesn't work anymore which can easily be adapted into encounter design for PvE as well. The game already has mobs and mechanics which can counteract / punish projectile spam (and there is more they can do), it just almost never makes use of them.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Endaris.1452]

2 hours ago, Lysico.4906 said:

The amount of effort the op puts into cries for nerfing a class.   Imagine if it was his class that was done to?   Op, how about you all for buffs to your favorite class??     But easier to try to tear things down then make a better gaming worlds 

Certainly, necro minionmancer should be buffed to be able to compete with mechanist.

[GWstinkt.6094]

49 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

There is no such thing as "independence from encounter variations". The issue is simply that most encounters aren't "varied" and as a result builds like rifle mech work almost everywhere without drawback. The only parts where this isn't the case are the competitive gamemodes as there they are faced with situations where simply "spamming 1" doesn't work anymore which can easily be adapted into encounter design for PvE as well. The game already has mobs and mechanics which can counteract / punish projectile spam (and there is more they can do), it just almost never makes use of them.

Well I doubt anet is going to redesign all major PvE encounters.

It would probably be easier to just balance PvE builds around the existing 10 years worth of content. 😛

[Obtena.7952]

I also doubt Anet is going to change LI power rifle mechanist if they don't see it as a problem either. 

LI builds and their use by other people don't prevent people from playing how they want. If anything, the recent patch is an indication that Anet is more concerned with providing players an range of well performing builds, regardless of how many buttons get pushed. These threads are just a contrived approach by players to try to set effort/performance relationship as some strict, unbreakable rule in this game environment and then claim it's the reason for why LI power rifle mech needs a nerf. 

The actual balance issue with the mechanist isn't that it gets competitive DPS with AA. The ACTUAL balance issue with the mechanist is role compression and stacking.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'll do a quick auto test for comparison.

Boons: Vigor,, Swiftness, Regen, Quickness, Alacrity, Protection, Fury, Might.

Conditions: All damaging conditions, weakness, cripple, chill, blindness (10 total).

Gear: full Berserker with scholar runes, either force + impact or force + accuracy.

 

Mechanist:

Rifle (no mech): 16k

Rifle (with mech):  26k

Rifle + Mech + No auto mech skills: 23k

Grenade Auto: 14k

Bomb Auto: 16k

Bomb Auto with Explosive Trigger: 17k

Mace Auto: 17k

Berserker:

Axe: 13k

Greatsword: 13k

Rifle: 11k

Hammer: 12k

Dragonhunter (no resolution):

Sword: 11k

Greatsword: 13k

Scepter: 8.6k

Longbow: 9.5k

Renegade:

Sword Auto: 16k

Sword + Impossible Odds: 22k

Vindicator: 

Greatsword (Force + Staimina): 15k  17k

 

Going to stop here.  A few observations.  First, the rifle auto is objectively overpowered.  However, it is not by much.  Back when I was testing auto attacks, the average damage range for melee weapons was around 15k while the average for ranged weapons was around 10k.  By current standards, the rifle auto attack should be reduced by at least 15% in total, putting it on par with the grenade auto attack.  However, that doesn't tell the whole story.

The high damage comes from the combination of the auto attack + the mech + all of the mech's abilities being on auto cast.  This makes nerfing the rifle mech a bit difficult, since it isn't any one portion of abilities that is particularly overpowered.  Using either the mace or the bomb kit would result in higher overall performance than just camping the rifle, so it isn't rifle that is the problem.  The individual mech skills, nor the mech auto, is particularly overpowered either.  Other than shaving a few skill coefficients from skills here and there, it is difficult to nerf the Mechanist without breaking it completely or ruining the other specializations.

EDIT: Fixed Vindicator Greatsword because I am incompetent.  

Edited August 31, 2022 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[the krytan assassin.9235]

3 hours ago, GWstinkt.6094 said:

Pressing more buttons is not more skillful and playing complicated or difficult builds is not "a fundamental part of gw2 current endgame" for a lot of players.

doing something over doing nothing is always more skillfull imo 😛

apart from that, the real difficulty is maintaining effectivity & correct skill rotation& timing your utilities/cc/boons while in a raiding/strike encounter. having a rotation is simply harder than not having any rotation at all. that is why mechanist is able to perform better in most raids/strike encounters.

 

also i do think alot of players mainly play endgame content to become a better, more effective player. GW2 endgame simply offers no real rewards, PvP and WvW's only endgame rewards are titles & rankings. PvE lacks any endgame rewards like mounts/epic gear etc. Sure you can earn some gold to buy those gemstore items, but i'd say the vast majority of endgame players simply enjoys the endgame content, so they want to enjoy it and become better at it. Creating a Espec that outperforms all other classes while being afk simply isn't enjoyable for the most. That's exactly the reason why the this whole forum has been complaining about the status of the mechanist for the last 2 months and people quitting the game/changing to a mecha. 

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Going to stop here.

Which quite a shame as you left out what would probably be the most apt comparisons: necro shroud AAs as they also offer AA damage which is further enhanced by specialisations. Iirc. in your last test Tainted Bolts was also somewhere around 25k.

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

By current standards, the rifle auto attack should be reduced by at least 15% in total

That is if we ignore that A-Net explicitly stated in their latest patch notes that doing it the exact other way around is how they want to approach this.

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

The high damage comes from ... the mech

Which ofc. makes perfect sense, the mech is the spec mechanic and it has to bring a considerable level of performance to the table to fulfill its stated role to act as a "pseudo player 2". There "real issue" in that regard is that some people simply don't like what this spec is supposed to be.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Karagee.6830]

4 hours ago, Lysico.4906 said:

The amount of effort the op puts into cries for nerfing a class.   Imagine if it was his class that was done to?   Op, how about you all for buffs to your favorite class??     But easier to try to tear things down then make a better gaming worlds 

No thanks, just nerf mechanist. When it has 1% representation like the majority of other specs it will be already a massive improvement for the game.

[Syronus.7605]

19 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

weakness, cripple, chill, blindness (10 total)

These will not have 100% uptime and modified ammunition will inflate engineer damage due to this. This would bring it down by about 1k.  Not much but worth noting.

19 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

any one portion of abilities that is particularly overpowered.

The mech abilities Core Reactor Shot and Jade Mortar are actually quite powerful.  These would be what I'd consider the obvious choices to tune down a little if we consider a jade mechs auto attacks critical about 2k and CRS and JM critical about 15k each when under no boons and in berserker gear with appropriate runes and sigils.  A 10%-15% damage nerf to these two abilities would be a good start in my opinion.  Edit: After thinking about this Shift signet is quite strong and probably should be changed to work  like "We heal as One!" and copy boons on activation.  This would hit two birds with one stone allowing for less automation and also a damage nerf.

18 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

That's exactly the reason why the this whole forum has been complaining about the status of the mechanist

The only people who are complaining are the ones who want to complain about it. That is hardly the 'whole forum'.  But I will say the majority of people will gravitate to the profession deemed easiest to play and/or most effective.  The elementalist is pretty much proof of that considering how low their numbers are and how high mechanist is now.  The mechanist is just flavor of the month now like Elementalist was post HoT when the tempest was in it's prime.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Syronus.7605

[coro.3176]

A well designed pet class should have to *care* about what its pet is doing. It should have to be micromanaging its position/skills, or even better, play with the pet by deliberately setting up combos (that have the potential to fail if done improperly).

Passive damage is bad.

[Kuma.1503]

30k DPS is below some quickness support builds. Which is objectively undertuned when you consider the amount of value hybrid supports provide. 

It would be more appropriate to establish broad guidelines of what a reliable build should do vs what an unreliable build should do. 

Pure DPS should deal more damage than supports. 

Reliable pure DPS should deal less damage than unreliable pure DPS. 

High Intensity unreliable pure DPS should deal more damage then reliable high intensity pure DPS. 

 

Supports currently sit at 26-32k 

Mech should sit comfortably above that at around 35k with perfect rotation and 10 condis consistently on boss. On par with core engi, scrapper, power virtuoso, and scourge. All of the other fairly easy builds which aren't punished by mechanics. 

Other pure dps builds like soulbeast and harbinger should continue to sit at around ~38k. They're still ranged, which gives them good uptime, but mechanics can mess up their combos and ruin their dps. They're not super high intensity, but not easy mode either. 

The sweaty builds like Bladesworn (needs to land dragon trigger, ideally into burst windows, melee, decent bit of pianoing required), Condi weaver (melee, no utility, heavily reliant on boons, squishy), and Untamed (rediculously high APM, very punishing combo execution). Should sit where condi untamed currently is. At around 42k+

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[GWstinkt.6094]

13 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Supports currently sit at 26-32k 

Supports currently bench at those numbers. The only supports I personally see actually pull of those numbers are firebrands.

Condi Untamed benches at 42k but I've almost never seen anyone play the spec let alone reach numbers anywhere close to this in actual content.

That's the point here. Mechanist could easily lose a few thousand DPS and would still out perform supports in basically all encounters because of how simple and reliable it puts out its damage.

If supports regularly reach north of 30k in actual content, I would agree that dps Mechanist would be fine to go beyond that. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

48 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Which quite a shame as you left out what would probably be the most apt comparisons: necro shroud AAs as they also offer AA damage which is directly enhanced by specialisation traits. Iirc. in your last test Tainted Bolts was also somewhere around 25k.

That is if we ignore that A-Net explicitly stated in their latest patch notes that doing it the exact other way around is how they want to approach this.

Which ofc. makes perfect sense, the mech is the spec mechanic and it has to bring a considerable level of performance to the table to fulfill its stated role to act as a "pseudo player 2". There "real issue" in that regard is that some people simply don't like what this spec is supposed to be.

Do not pull this crap with me.  I'm not going to spend days testing every weapon just to compare the mech.  If you aren't happy that I didn't test X, then go to the Dome and do it yourself.  What I said is what should be done, and if Anet doesn't agree then Anet is ruining the game.

 

39 minutes ago, Syronus.7605 said:

These will not have 100% uptime and modified ammunition will inflate engineer damage due to this. This would bring it down by about 1k.  Not much but worth noting.

The mech abilities Core Reactor Shot and Jade Mortar are actually quite powerful.  These would be what I'd consider the obvious choices to tune down a little if we consider a jade mechs auto attacks critical about 2k and CRS and JM critical about 15k each when under no boons and in berserker gear with appropriate runes and sigils.  A 10%-15% damage nerf to these two abilities would be a good start in my opinion. 

The only people who are complaining are the ones who want to complain about it. That is hardly the 'whole forum'.  But I will say the majority of people will gravitate to the profession deemed easiest to play and/or most effective.  The elementalist is pretty much proof of that considering how low their numbers are and how high mechanist is now.  The mechanist is just flavor of the month now like Elementalist was post HoT when the tempest was in it's prime.

The conditions are highly variable, and I have left out many that could end up permanently stacked when given the right composition.  With the new specs weakness and cripple are guaranteed permanent, and chill uptime is going to be much higher than before.  The difference between the mech skills and the mech auto attacking is a mere 3k DPS.  It's not a lot.

[Tails.9372]

16 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I'm not going to spend days testing every weapon just to compare the mech.

No-one was asking you to but someone simply bringing up that something would be a more apt comparison shouldn't be ground for such a negative reaction unless one just wants to push an agenda which, going by the rest of your reply:

16 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Do not pull this crap with me. What I said is what should be done, and if Anet doesn't agree then Anet is ruining the game.

sadly seems to be the case.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Angesombre.4630]

Rather than nerfing the engineer's weapons, why not reduce the stat given to the golem?

[Kuma.1503]

38 minutes ago, GWstinkt.6094 said:

Supports currently bench at those numbers. The only supports I personally see actually pull of those numbers are firebrands.

Condi Untamed benches at 42k but I've almost never seen anyone play the spec let alone reach numbers anywhere close to this in actual content.

That's the point here. Mechanist could easily lose a few thousand DPS and would still out perform supports in basically all encounters because of how simple and reliable it puts out its damage.

If supports regularly reach north of 30k in actual content, I would agree that dps Mechanist would be fine to go beyond that. 

I've also see harbingers pull it off. 30k is also roughly where quickness scrapper is. (Snowcrows shows pre buff numbers)

Mech with perfect rotation, 10 condis on golem should bench at Scourge level. Both are easy, ranged, good at dealing with mechanics. Scourge also provides bonus utility while mech does not. 

Scourge can also continue to activate shroud skills while CC'd or doing mechanics. 

 

Mech under ideal conditions is also effectively no longer ranged. You need to be within 450 units of the boss or you lose out on High caliber, you deal less damage from blunderbuss, you cannot land jump shot, you can get trolled by nade RNG against smaller hitboxes, so you ideally want to be as close to the boss's hitbox as possbile to ensure all nades land. 

And if condis start to fall off because your group is failing mechanics your DPS will also tank. 

When forced to operate under ideal conditions, mech loses a lot of its advantage, so benching at scourge level, and above quickness support level is appropriate. 

Doing all of the above for 30k is simply smiter's booning Pmech out of the game, leaving the Mech traitline with 3 dead triats. While I'm sure many would get satisfaction out of that, that is not good balance. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[GWstinkt.6094]

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I've also see harbingers pull it off. 30k is also roughly where quickness scrapper is. 

Mech with perfect rotation, 10 condis on golem should bench at Scourge level. Both are easy, ranged, unpunished by mechanics. Scourge also provides bonus utility while mech does not. 

Scourge can also continue to activate shroud skills while CC'd or doing mechanics. 

 

Mech under ideal conditions is also effectively no longer ranged. You need to be within 450 units of the boss or you lose out on High caliber, you deal less damage from blunderbuss, you cannot land jump shot, you can get trolled by nade RNG against smaller hitboxes, so you ideally want to be as close to the boss's hitbox as possbile to ensure all nades land. 

And if condis start to fall off because your group is failing mechanics your DPS will also tank. 

When forced to operate under ideal conditions, mech loses a lot of its advantage, so benching at scourge level, and above quickness support level is appropriate. 

Doing all of the above for 30k is simply smiter's booning Pmech out of the game, leaving the Mech traitline with 3 dead triats. While I'm sure many would get satisfaction out of that, that is not good balance. 

It's not super easy to balance. Especially when balance is different for different skill groups. And I agree, Scourge is definitely another spec that performs very consistently and should be balanced accordingly.

I think if Power Mech was brought down another 4k or so, it would still do really well in a lot of groups and situations. Only very experienced / fairly high skill groups would see a big benefit from running higher risk / skill builds with higher ceilings. I would consider that good balance. Its hardly objective though. 

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I'll do a quick auto test for comparison.

Boons: Vigor,, Swiftness, Regen, Quickness, Alacrity, Protection, Fury, Might.

Conditions: All damaging conditions, weakness, cripple, chill, blindness (10 total).

Gear: full Berserker with scholar runes, either force + impact or force + accuracy.

 

Mechanist:

Rifle (no mech): 16k

Rifle (with mech):  26k

Rifle + Mech + No auto mech skills: 23k

Grenade Auto: 14k

Bomb Auto: 16k

Bomb Auto with Explosive Trigger: 17k

Mace Auto: 17k

Berserker:

Axe: 13k

Greatsword: 13k

Rifle: 11k

Hammer: 12k

Dragonhunter (no resolution):

Sword: 11k

Greatsword: 13k

Scepter: 8.6k

Longbow: 9.5k

Renegade:

Sword Auto: 16k

Sword + Impossible Odds: 22k

Vindicator: 

Greatsword (Force + Staimina): 15k  17k

 

Going to stop here.  A few observations.  First, the rifle auto is objectively overpowered.  However, it is not by much.  Back when I was testing auto attacks, the average damage range for melee weapons was around 15k while the average for ranged weapons was around 10k.  By current standards, the rifle auto attack should be reduced by at least 15% in total, putting it on par with the grenade auto attack.  However, that doesn't tell the whole story.

The high damage comes from the combination of the auto attack + the mech + all of the mech's abilities being on auto cast.  This makes nerfing the rifle mech a bit difficult, since it isn't any one portion of abilities that is particularly overpowered.  Using either the mace or the bomb kit would result in higher overall performance than just camping the rifle, so it isn't rifle that is the problem.  The individual mech skills, nor the mech auto, is particularly overpowered either.  Other than shaving a few skill coefficients from skills here and there, it is difficult to nerf the Mechanist without breaking it completely or ruining the other specializations.

EDIT: Fixed Vindicator Greatsword because I am incompetent.  

Now THIS is an example of relevant discussion here. Agree on the the "OP'ed but not by much' on the rifle auto. My own testing confirms what you found as well. 

Here is the thing that I think so few people have actually sat and thought about. What gets nerfed is decided by what the actual problem is, determined by usage of the two main mechanist versions. In otherwords, we have two versions of mechanist that may be over represented in endgame or not ... the solution to address the possible endgame over-representations is different for each mechanist version.

The egregious part is that people have assumed that no matter what version is over-represented, the solution is to nerf DPS. The absurd part of that solution is nerfing DPS is an ineffective solution because DPS isn't the reason people take EITHER version of mechanist.

So sure ... Anet nerf DPS 3-4 K ... and whether that is done on the rifle OR the support mech ... it won't matter because you will STILL see lots of mechs represented in endgame content. 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Obtena.7952