Dragonhunter: Is it really this weak or is it just me?

[Sahne.6950]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I still see people run the stealth rune DH in gold 3 so it must still be going strong. 

i literally can carry games in gold 3 with corestaff ele....    so it must be going strong!?

below platin just about anything works xD

[Mell.4873]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i literally can carry games in gold 3 with corestaff ele....    so it must be going strong!?

below platin just about anything works xD

Plat is the top 150 players in US.... so I mean I'm lucky if I can stay in that rank for more than a few games each season since one loss drops you by 30-40 points.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Mell.4873

[otto.5684]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I still see people run the stealth rune DH in gold 3 so it must still be going strong. 

The stealth lasts only 1 sec. And I am happy this troll build is dead. I can probably take a medi trapper DH to at least P1. But that is me carrying a bad build via skill. However, I would do better with any core (power, condi or support) power WB, even dps or support FB. 

[Dib.4612]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:06 PM, Anela.3867 said:

I have played off and on since release and and have played the majority of professions but Dragonhunter is my favorite but it just seems so weak these days. Even with the recent buffs, bow isn't great...especially in PvE.  Is it just me?

It's fine, not great. The hard thing about balancing Dragonhunter is that it has such good self-defence which allows it to attack straight through some hard hitting stuff.  Namely: Shield of Courage, Litany of Wrath combined with Shield of Wrath. 

 

It still has massive burst ability, but sustained damage isn't quite there.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

11 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

What traps lol? ToF damage is pathetic now. The burst does not deal any damage. The only trap that would be considered for aoe/area denial is PT. And if you are running PT, that means you are missing either CoP or smite. Your sustain will be creap.

 

Lets not kid ourselves, DH is not remotely competitive. It is barely even viable. Even kitten FB has more value. It is the worst thing you can currently play in spvp, among tons of terrible options.

Hit with a 9.5k test of faith but it does pathetic damage? What?

 

Crazy how when a build goes from broken and easily abused to still very powerful but not as broken it’s now terrible and unplayable 😂

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

2 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Hit with a 9.5k test of faith but it does pathetic damage? What?

 

Crazy how when a build goes from broken and easily abused to still very powerful but not as broken it’s now terrible and unplayable 😂

9.5k on a light target golem with every buff in the game, sure. "very powerful" ah yes that's why it sees absolutely 0 play in mAT, and no top player thinks it's good

Edited September 19, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

55 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

9.5k on a light target golem with every buff in the game, sure. "very powerful" ah yes that's why it sees absolutely 0 play in mAT, and no top player thinks it's good

9.5k damage on me, a Mesmer. An actual class in a  difficult position. 

There is a reason there are different tier lists for what works in ranked and what works in a competitive environment with coordinated, practiced teams with voice communication. The “it sees 0 play in mAT” is such a silver level response. Are you an active participant in mAT trying win a monthly? Is that actually your concern?
 

Almost every time I watch Naru he will play DH at some point. And every single time he does he says that DH is still strong. Almost every single time he laughs about how trapper rune used to be even more busted and that it still is strong. I don’t know if you know this but he is one of the very best players.

 

The hyperbole of something being bad or unplayable because it isn’t crazy busted like it used to be is laughable. 
 

 

[otto.5684]

3 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Hit with a 9.5k test of faith but it does pathetic damage? What?

 

Crazy how when a build goes from broken and easily abused to still very powerful but not as broken it’s now terrible and unplayable 😂

What the kitten are you smoking? In spvp you will barely deal 2k on a path through and the initial pass through does literally no damage. Even at its height, passing through ToF twice barely dealt 4k damage. The damage primarily cam from LB2 and LB3. And LB3 literally does no damage. If this skill can hit 9.5k, every team will consist of 5 DHs. 

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

10 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

What the kitten are you smoking? In spvp you will barely deal 2k on a path through and the initial pass through does literally no damage. Even at its height, passing through ToF twice barely dealt 4k damage. The damage primarily cam from LB2 and LB3. And LB3 literally does no damage. If this skill can hit 9.5k, every team will consist of 5 DHs. 

I’ll be sure to start taking screenshots for the delusional DH club.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

41 minutes ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

The “it sees 0 play in mAT” is such a silver level response.

Ah yes "if u don't agree with me ur silver trash". I'll have you know I consistently sat plat2 the past several seasons before I quit. Care to share your rank now?

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

6 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Ah yes "if u don't agree with me ur silver trash". I'll have you know I consistently sat plat2 the past several seasons before I quit. Care to share your rank now?

I don’t play the mini seasons, but I play plat 1 and plat 2 on only Mesmer during the main seasons. 
 

Crazy to be whining so much about a class for a game you don’t even play. Amazing how you managed to not address a single point I made though. 

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Just now, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Amazing how you managed to not address a single point I made though. 

Amazing how you make no points other than "DH is strong. My main is really the weak one", and everything else being personal attacks. I will waste no more breath here. 1v1 me or shut up. I will no longer respond to anything you post unless it's to accept the duel. 

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

2 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Amazing how you make no points other than "DH is strong. My main is really the weak one", and everything else being personal attacks. I will waste no more breath here. 1v1 me or shut up. I will no longer respond to anything you post unless it's to accept the duel. 

Reading comprehension and selective reading are clearly not strong points of yours.

Excuse me, meant to say selective reading is a very strong point of yours.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[cat.8975]

9 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Hit with a 9.5k test of faith but it does pathetic damage? What?

 

Crazy how when a build goes from broken and easily abused to still very powerful but not as broken it’s now terrible and unplayable 😂

9.5k is an exception, not the norm. You're only going to be hitting that when you've aligned most of your damage mods and your target is as glassy as possible.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

https://clips.twitch.tv/BelovedObedientWatermelonCmonBruh-3JXA8mJYnhW4kzlv
 

This is not a clip of not a top player playing DH today and not hitting an 8.8k test of faith. This is just a figment of the imagination. He also never hits a ton more massive test of faiths. Because those things never happen. 
 

Here are some more goodies: 

https://clips.twitch.tv/CredulousBitterCroquetteSMOrc-5jICTrHjQwLvn4oJ

 

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597

Edited September 22, 2022 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[cat.8975]

9 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/BelovedObedientWatermelonCmonBruh-3JXA8mJYnhW4kzlv
 

This is not a clip of not a top player playing DH today and not hitting an 8.8k test of faith. This is just a figment of the imagination. He also never hits a ton more massive test of faiths. Because those things never happen. 
 

Here are some more goodies: 

https://clips.twitch.tv/CredulousBitterCroquetteSMOrc-5jICTrHjQwLvn4oJ

 

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597

Wow, a zerk amulet build stacking a bunch of damage modifiers against another glassy build managed to hit a high number? Shocking!

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

8 hours ago, cat.8975 said:

Wow, a zerk amulet build stacking a bunch of damage modifiers against another glassy build managed to hit a high number? Shocking!

Apparently hitting high numbers is a massive surprise to the people on this board. You should repeat what you said for the people in the back. A bunch of modifiers? That must’ve been so difficult to click those traits in the trait line. The dude didn’t even have his tether going lol. Could’ve done even more damage.

 

But sure we can listen to @otto.5684 who says it usually does 2k damage and we can listen to @Hogwarts Zebra.8597who says no one good plays it which proves that Naru is actually a bad player. 
 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1598343255

 

Here is a few hours of bad player Naru hitting welllllllll over 2k on most his ToFs. You guys can watch it and learn something or keep complaining about how bad it is. Even though Naru (a bad player according to @Hogwarts Zebra.8597) says it’s a good class. 
 

[Kulvar.1239]

I don't know about PvP, but in PvE it need to be seriously buffed.

Big Game Hunter should increase Spear of Justice duration by 100% instead of 66%, and strike damage by 20% instead of 15%.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

i played DH since HoT and now changed to Willbender and/or FB. DH is still fun but the survivability from DH is just bad in compare to the other two Elite specs. sure you can stay alive but its a) more micromanagement  and b) a lot more downtime

sad because it was my favorite spec

[crewthief.8649]

On 9/19/2022 at 1:19 PM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

9.5k damage on me, a Mesmer. An actual class in a  difficult position. 

There is a reason there are different tier lists for what works in ranked and what works in a competitive environment with coordinated, practiced teams with voice communication. The “it sees 0 play in mAT” is such a silver level response. Are you an active participant in mAT trying win a monthly? Is that actually your concern?
 

Almost every time I watch Naru he will play DH at some point. And every single time he does he says that DH is still strong. Almost every single time he laughs about how trapper rune used to be even more busted and that it still is strong. I don’t know if you know this but he is one of the very best players.

 

The hyperbole of something being bad or unplayable because it isn’t crazy busted like it used to be is laughable. 
 

 

I’m just trying to understand how him using his observations of a lack of representation in MATs (as proof of the state of DH) is “silver-level” while you using the opinions/observations of a streamer (who doesn’t play DH in tournaments, mind you) somehow elevates your opinion above his…

And for the record, anyone who had to endure Chrono-bunker or Mirage at the height of its broken-ness has exactly zero sympathy for Mesmer players. You’re probably better off looking elsewhere for pity. Funnily enough however, Mesmer sees more use (on average) in tournaments than DH. 🤣🤣🤣

And FYI, you’d probably find more traction for some of your arguments if you weren’t so incredibly abrasive.

Edited September 28, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

12 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

I’m just trying to understand how him using his observations of a lack of representation in MATs (as proof of the state of DH) is “silver-level” while you using the opinions/observations of a streamer (who doesn’t play DH in tournaments, mind you) somehow elevates your opinion above his…

And for the record, anyone who had to endure Chrono-bunker or Mirage at the height of its broken-ness has exactly zero sympathy for Mesmer players. You’re probably better off looking elsewhere for pity. Funnily enough however, Mesmer sees more use (on average) in tournaments than DH. 🤣🤣🤣

And FYI, you’d probably find more traction for some of your arguments if you weren’t so incredibly abrasive.

I'll help you follow the conversation:

On 9/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

ah yes that's why it sees absolutely 0 play in mAT, and no top player thinks it's good

so I reply with 

On 9/19/2022 at 2:19 PM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Almost every time I watch Naru he will play DH at some point. And every single time he does he says that DH is still strong

I was responding directly to a point he made. The reason it is a direct response is because he said "no top player thinks it's good", so I brought up Naru because Naru is one of the best players if not the very best current Guardian player. That would mean he would be considered a top player. His opinion is that it is pretty good for ranked play. So do we follow the conversation now?

"And for the record, anyone who had to endure Chrono-bunker or Mirage at the height of its broken-ness has exactly zero sympathy for Mesmer players."

The best you can do is bring up a build from 6 years ago and Mirage being good which is 3 years ago. This is why I don't have sympathy. Since the last time Mirage is was good we have had in back-to-back succession of Symbol Guard, Burn Guard, Burn DH, trapper DH, Willbender, and support Guard through that entire time. All these builds have been potent. This is over the past 2.5 years, less time since the last time Mirage has been good. So I can do nothing but laugh at these complaints. Abrasiveness is irrelevant to the truth. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[crewthief.8649]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:22 PM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

I'll help you follow the conversation:

so I reply with 

I was responding directly to a point he made. The reason it is a direct response is because he said "no top player thinks it's good", so I brought up Naru because Naru is one of the best players if not the very best current Guardian player. That would mean he would be considered a top player. His opinion is that it is pretty good for ranked play. So do we follow the conversation now?

"And for the record, anyone who had to endure Chrono-bunker or Mirage at the height of its broken-ness has exactly zero sympathy for Mesmer players."

The best you can do is bring up a build from 6 years ago and Mirage being good which is 3 years ago. This is why I don't have sympathy. Since the last time Mirage is was good we have had in back-to-back succession of Symbol Guard, Burn Guard, Burn DH, trapper DH, Willbender, and support Guard through that entire time. All these builds have been potent. This is over the past 2.5 years, less time since the last time Mirage has been good. So I can do nothing but laugh at these complaints. Abrasiveness is irrelevant to the truth. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your logic was fundamentally flawed, as there is virtually no difference in the validity of his observation versus your observation. In fact, at least he’s using his own observation; you, on the other hand, are relying on a streamer to tell you what to think, which is…😂

Regarding your Mesmer pity-party: None of us care. Your emotional support is 👉

And finally, your abrasiveness. While you are correct in the assertion that your delivery has no bearing on the merit of your argument, it certainly doesn’t rally public opinion to your cause when you conduct yourself like an utter kitten. And make no mistake, you have been “that guy” throughout this entire thread. You do you, but don’t expect the reception to be any different when you come at people the way you do.

Edited October 25, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

5 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Your logic was fundamentally flawed, as there is virtually no difference in the validity of his observation versus your observation. In fact, at least he’s using his own observation; you, on the other hand, are relying on a streamer to tell you what to think, which is…😂

 Regarding your Mesmer pity-party: None of us care. Your emotional support is 👉

And finally, your abrasiveness. While you are correct in the assertion that your delivery has no bearing on the merit of your argument, it certainly doesn’t rally public opinion to your cause when you conduct yourself like an utter kitten. And make no mistake, you have been “that guy” throughout this entire thread. You do you, but don’t expect the reception to be any different when you come at people the way you do.

Clearly something isn’t connecting in your brain. I’ll try to help walk you through it again. So they made the claim “no top player thinks it’s good”. They are the one making the assertion and giving validity and credibility to a better player. I’ll ask you again, do the dots connect yet? 
 

This has nothing to do with me making an observation. This is me directly responding to something they said.  I’ll give my observation as well. I probably was playing this DH build before anyone else in this thread. I was playing it before it became meta. I watched a streamer named Feuille use it back in 2020, I picked it up then. It was really fun because it was very difficult to use then. You could be two shot by a thief out of stealth, herald has been toned down since then, a lot of things changed allowing it to be more viable. I find it fun to learn a class that’s difficult to play. I have personal experience with this exact build. I have hundreds of matches with it before it ever became popular. When it was actually more difficult to use. Before the longbow 5 change. It used to actually lock you in place for the entire animation. 
 

I don’t want or need a Mesmer pity party. I’m trying to give you perspective. You guys clearly have none. I get it, Dragonhunter in its current state actually requires active inputs and thought to perform well. You have to correctly position, intelligently use your defensives and do combos for damage. I get it, as a guardian player you guys aren’t used to having to do that. So it’s a bit of a shock. It’s almost like you have to use your brains a bit and play like a Mesmer if you want to perform well. 
 

Buddy, I don’t care about trying to be popular here. Just giving people a dose of reality. I have nothing personal against anyone here. I’m sure most people here are fine players. But if what I say here offends you, I’m sorry that sucks.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Saiyan.1704]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:06 AM, Anela.3867 said:

I have played off and on since release and and have played the majority of professions but Dragonhunter is my favorite but it just seems so weak these days. Even with the recent buffs, bow isn't great...especially in PvE.  Is it just me?

I feel a lot Guards are sleeping on Condi DH in sPvP. I have been using this build pretty much since the start of PoF and I always have a blast on it... not to mention i'm always high G3 - P1 in every season with this build alone. You'll hit some roadblocks vs condi cleanse classes like BS/Ele/Core Guard but overall it's a fun build.

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Clearly something isn’t connecting in your brain. I’ll try to help walk you through it again. So they made the claim “no top player thinks it’s good”. They are the one making the assertion and giving validity and credibility to a better player. I’ll ask you again, do the dots connect yet? 
 

This has nothing to do with me making an observation. This is me directly responding to something they said.  I’ll give my observation as well. I probably was playing this DH build before anyone else in this thread. I was playing it before it became meta. I watched a streamer named Feuille use it back in 2020, I picked it up then. It was really fun because it was very difficult to use then. You could be two shot by a thief out of stealth, herald has been toned down since then, a lot of things changed allowing it to be more viable. I find it fun to learn a class that’s difficult to play. I have personal experience with this exact build. I have hundreds of matches with it before it ever became popular. When it was actually more difficult to use. Before the longbow 5 change. It used to actually lock you in place for the entire animation. 
 

I don’t want or need a Mesmer pity party. I’m trying to give you perspective. You guys clearly have none. I get it, Dragonhunter in its current state actually requires active inputs and thought to perform well. You have to correctly position, intelligently use your defensives and do combos for damage. I get it, as a guardian player you guys aren’t used to having to do that. So it’s a bit of a shock. It’s almost like you have to use your brains a bit and play like a Mesmer if you want to perform well. 
 

Buddy, I don’t care about trying to be popular here. Just giving people a dose of reality. I have nothing personal against anyone here. I’m sure most people here are fine players. But if what I say here offends you, I’m sorry that sucks.

You outright dismissed his opinion in a pretty condescending manner (sort of like how you’re referring to Guardian players in the quoted text above). I was directly addressing that and how, in my opinion, your opinion/observation held no more objective value than his did. 

Regarding whether or not you care to offend me/us/anyone in general misses the point; you’re presenting a counterpoint to a common position among the Guardian community within this forum, which is totally fine, but the way you’re going about it isn’t going to move anyone off of their previous opinion. It is possible to debate and not be a kitten in the process. 

To be honest (and take this for what it’s worth, which isn’t much considering it’s only my opinion) you come off as a salty Mesmer main that’s just spreading his misery among whoever he can.