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LWS1 EP 5 Predictions


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***Warning, SPOILERS, this prediction is based off the original LWS1 final releases***

So i think the final episode will be broken into five parts:

1. Story Instance where we discover Scarlet's plans in her secret cave hideout beneath the Durmon Priory, and rush to Lions Arch, but arrive too late.

2. Scarlet's invasion of Lions Arch, forcing us to defend the city while it evacuates. - I see this as the first of two 50 squad Instanced Metas, with a Public/Private option.

3. The fight to recapturing Lions Arch and reach the Breach Maker- the second 50 squad Instanced Meta, with a Public/Private option.

4. Story Instanced fight against Scarlet in the Breach Maker, with a significantly harder re-playable Strike Mission version.

5. Conclusion Story Instance with Braham, Rox, Kasmeer, and Marjory (i don't remember if we had such a story instance in the original release, but I know they like to add post battle pow wows, so id be surprised if they don't include this.)

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Plot twist, episode 5 is the original origins of madness and twisted marionette and triple trouble with a cliff hanger ending of the attack on Lion's Arch cinematic, leading into  a whole new "Attack of Lions Arch season 1.5" nestled before season 2 where Lions arch's appearance is in the difference phases (pre-attack, battle, post victory, and then rebuilt at season 2) depending on your character's progress through the story. 😲

 

 

Fan boy dreams ending...

 

Reality: It will be a rushed attack and escape at Lions Arch and final Scarlet instance with nothing mentioned above.

Edited by CrimeDog.5614
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Given that they've just been repurposing the old instances, we have a pretty solid station to how it'll lay. More a question of how long they'll include. There's also a consistent structure to the style of story steps. 1 open world segment, 3-4 instances, and 1 epilogue.

With Tower of Nightmares being Dragonstorm-style as many people hoped, we can imagine Attack on Lion's Arch will be similar. We also know there will be a strike, which is no doubt going to be the Prime Hologram / Breachmaker fight, modified to go from 50+ players to 1-5 (story) or 10 players (strike).

 

But in short, the remaining story after Twisted Marionette that's included as a bonus achievement is:

  1. Story Instance: The Origins of Madness: A Moment's Peace
  2. Story Instance: The Dead End: Advanced Warning
  3. Open World segments: Aetherblade break out Mai Trin
  4. Story Instance: The Dead End: A Study in Scarlet
  5. Group Instanced Segment (ala The Tower of Nightmares): Evacuate Lion's Arch Citizens
  6. Story / Strike: Liberate Lion's Arch from Scarlet's Forces (Assault Knights onward - aka the Prime Hologram fight)
  7. Story Instance: Scarlet's End
  8. Epilogue: The Dead End (Aftermath)

The question is how much will be included. Tower of Nightmares cut out the original arc's prologue as well as the original arc's epilogue, and only kept choice bits of its open world epilogue dialogue.

I could easily see them starting with A Study in Scarlet instance, which would be a shame since that would cut out Taimi and Canach. But they can also include all 8 steps pretty easily. So far, ArenaNet has kept the story mission count to 5 for episodes 1 and 3, and 6 for episodes 2 and 4. But there have been situations where the final chapter/episode is much longer than the rest of the story so (personal story and IBS in particular), who knows.

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On 9/15/2022 at 11:48 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Given that they've just been repurposing the old instances, we have a pretty solid station to how it'll lay. More a question of how long they'll include. There's also a consistent structure to the style of story steps. 1 open world segment, 3-4 instances, and 1 epilogue.

With Tower of Nightmares being Dragonstorm-style as many people hoped, we can imagine Attack on Lion's Arch will be similar. We also know there will be a strike, which is no doubt going to be the Prime Hologram / Breachmaker fight, modified to go from 50+ players to 1-5 (story) or 10 players (strike).

 

But in short, the remaining story after Twisted Marionette that's included as a bonus achievement is:

  1. Story Instance: The Origins of Madness: A Moment's Peace
  2. Story Instance: The Dead End: Advanced Warning
  3. Open World segments: Aetherblade break out Mai Trin
  4. Story Instance: The Dead End: A Study in Scarlet
  5. Group Instanced Segment (ala The Tower of Nightmares): Evacuate Lion's Arch Citizens
  6. Story / Strike: Liberate Lion's Arch from Scarlet's Forces (Assault Knights onward - aka the Prime Hologram fight)
  7. Story Instance: Scarlet's End
  8. Epilogue: The Dead End (Aftermath)

The question is how much will be included. Tower of Nightmares cut out the original arc's prologue as well as the original arc's epilogue, and only kept choice bits of its open world epilogue dialogue.

I could easily see them starting with A Study in Scarlet instance, which would be a shame since that would cut out Taimi and Canach. But they can also include all 8 steps pretty easily. So far, ArenaNet has kept the story mission count to 5 for episodes 1 and 3, and 6 for episodes 2 and 4. But there have been situations where the final chapter/episode is much longer than the rest of the story so (personal story and IBS in particular), who knows.

You listed 8 story steps but since all of season one has been 5-6, i strongly feel some will get cut. Although to be fair I think its totally fine that a finale is longer than the rest of the season. It just depends how much work the devs want to do.. 

 

I also disagree that the liberation will be the strike. So far strikes have always been key bosses, so it makes more sense to have a scarlet boss. Also the liberation of lions arch is more than just a boss fight with the prime hologram, its much more suited to be another dragonstorm. 

Edited by OtakuModeEngage.8679
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3 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

You listed 8 story steps but since all of season one has been 5-6, i strongly feel some will get cut. Although to be fair I think its totally fine that a finale is longer than the rest of the season. It just depends how much work the devs want to do.. 

 

I also disagree that the liberation with be the strike. So far strikes have always been key bosses, so ot makes more sense to have a scarlet boss. Also the liberation of lions arch is more than just a boss fight with the prime hologram, its much more suited to be another dragonstorm. 

I think it's likely some will get cut, but honestly none of it should as if they cut out the least story relevant, they remove our introduction to Taimi and Canach in Season 1 story journal entirely.

However, I want to point out that both Episodes 1 and 2 combined some of the shorter story instances with longer ones before - Rox: Critical Mission, Braham: Help from the Legions, and Rox - The Hatchery got merged into one story step, for example. So I could see Advanced Warning, investigating Fort Marriner open world with Canach, and A Study in Scarlet (basically all of Edge of the Mists release) being merged into one story step as there's no real combat in any of them, and even A Moment of Peace, if they decide to bring that one back in (which, again, they really should because it has important character development for Taimi/Braham/Rox and Marjory/Kasmeer).

If we go by original story instances, Flame and Frost was originally eight as well, and combined into five without cutting any of the eight (though they did cut out the BrahamxOttilia epilogues in Cragstead that happened during the three Kiel arcs and explained his presence in Clockwork Chaos).

 

As to Liberate Lion's Arch from Scarlet's Forces being the strike - I do know that Liberate Lion's Arch from Scarlet's Forces was more than just the Prime Hologram fight, but those events before are generic events and aside from the champion ones, they also occurred during Escape from Lion's Arch. The only things unique to Liberation of Lion's Arch was the Prime Hologram chain - the three Assault Knights fights + Prime Hologram on Breachmaker fight. And that's what I think the story mission that also becomes a strike (which is a simplified version of the story mission, I might add, so the strike will be simpler than the story) will be.

I do not see them doing two Dragonstorm styled instances in one go. It will either be just one of the two, and Evacuate is the better option storywise while instancing the Prime Hologram as it has all the story driven events besides the said world boss fight, or they will simply combine the two and have Liberate happen after the 1 hour period of Evacuate, making it a 2 hour group instance.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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14 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I think it's likely some will get cut, but honestly none of it should as if they cut out the least story relevant, they remove our introduction to Taimi and Canach in Season 1 story journal entirely.

However, I want to point out that both Episodes 1 and 2 combined some of the shorter story instances with longer ones

I could see this happening. A merge fits their release cadence metric without having to throw content away.

14 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

As to Liberate Lion's Arch from Scarlet's Forces being the strike - I do know that Liberate Lion's Arch from Scarlet's Forces was more than just the Prime Hologram fight, but those events before are generic events and aside from the champion ones, they also occurred during Escape from Lion's Arch. The only things unique to Liberation of Lion's Arch was the Prime Hologram chain - the three Assault Knights fights + Prime Hologram on Breachmaker fight. And that's what I think the story mission that also becomes a strike (which is a simplified version of the story mission, I might add, so the strike will be simpler than the story) will be.

I do not see them doing two Dragonstorm styled instances in one go. It will either be just one of the two, and Evacuate is the better option storywise while instancing the Prime Hologram as it has all the story driven events besides the said world boss fight, or they will simply combine the two and have Liberate happen after the 1 hour period of Evacuate, making it a 2 hour group instance.

So you mentioned other than the three strike knights the other events and champs are generic adds, but i fail to see a problem with that, it sounds like every other meta to me. You have your core boss(es) and you have your add ons; that's what makes a meta. Retaking lions arch was, and should be again, an epic battle where the players ban together to push scarlets forces out. And the only way you can capture the scale of that encounter, is with a dragonstorm instance. And just because they haven't done two dragonstorm style events in one release before, doesn't mean they cant. Conversely, as with the original scarlet fight, that was more personal. After all the forces of tyria reclaimed the city and secured the breachmaker, the commander went in with his small team alone to face scarlet. This just screams strike mission. Its the same set up as the nightmare tower, everyone climbs to the top together, and then you go into the main chamber alone. (For what its worth, i feel the Nightmare Incarnate, could have been tweaked to raise the challenge level and turned into a strike as well. Missed opportunity IMO)

 

I invision the retaking LA meta in 3 stages:

1. Clear out scarlets troops (the add events)

2. Defeat the strick knights

3. Defeat the prime hologram to take the breachmaker

Edited by OtakuModeEngage.8679
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3 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

So you mentioned other than the three strike knights the other events and champs are generic adds, but i fail to see a problem with that, it sounds like every other meta to me. You have your core boss(es) and you have your add ons; that's what makes a meta. Retaking lions arch was, and should be again, an epic battle where the players ban together to push scarlets forces out. And the only way you can capture the scale of that encounter, is with a dragonstorm instance.

You seem to misunderstand me?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a big dragonstorm instance, but that said big dragonstorm instance is better given to the Escape from Lion's Arch version (Evacuate the citizens), which has story to all the events.

And the issue is having two dragonstorm style instances in the same location. Sure, doesn't mean they can't, but one will definitely detract from the other and players will only go to the one that's more lucrative.

3 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

And just because they haven't done two dragonstorm style events in one release before, doesn't mean they cant. Conversely, as with the original scarlet fight, that was more personal. After all the forces of tyria reclaimed the city and secured the breachmaker, the commander went in with his small team alone to face scarlet. This just screams strike mission.

There is no way in hell that they're turning Scarlet's End into a strike mission. There is no substantial combat there. Scarlet is downed and will die with a single hit in the story mode - there's no room in the arena for mobile boss fight, and has no level of epicness to it to fight an already downed foe.

Scarlet's End is just:

  • Cinematic
  • Reach Scarlet and Press F
  • Cinematic
  • Done

Even Big Nose Ted would be easier and more sensible to turn into a strike mission.

3 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

For what its worth, i feel the Nightmare Incarnate, could have been tweaked to raise the challenge level and turned into a strike as well. Missed opportunity IMO)

This, I can agree with. It was originally designed as a scaling "dungeon" in the first place, similar to Canach's Lair and Scarlet's Playhouse. Suitable for five players. They could have kept them as such, or even buffed it into a 10-man fight.

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1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

You seem to misunderstand me?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a big dragonstorm instance, but that said big dragonstorm instance is better given to the Escape from Lion's Arch version (Evacuate the citizens), which has story to all the events.

And the issue is having two dragonstorm style instances in the same location. Sure, doesn't mean they can't, but one will definitely detract from the other and players will only go to the one that's more lucrative.

I mean, you just have their public access available at different times, lile how the Twisted Marionette opens at a different time than Dragonstorm does, despite the entrance to both being at the same place.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

There is no way in hell that they're turning Scarlet's End into a strike mission. There is no substantial combat there. Scarlet is downed and will die with a single hit in the story mode - there's no room in the arena for mobile boss fight, and has no level of epicness to it to fight an already downed foe.

Scarlet's End is just:

  • Cinematic
  • Reach Scarlet and Press F
  • Cinematic
  • Done

Even Big Nose Ted would be easier and more sensible to turn into a strike mission.

Is scarlets end really that easy? i guess its been so long I forgot. That said, id argue that it could and should, be an actual fight, and this is the perfect time to fix that.

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2 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

Is scarlets end really that easy? i guess its been so long I forgot. That said, id argue that it could and should, be an actual fight, and this is the perfect time to fix that.

Honestly? It's even easier.

It was set up that you didn't even have to attack her. After a set amount of time (~3 minutes), she would simply die on her own. And that was just for players who couldn't dodge past her grenades that launched you back. But yeah, it had zero mechanics that would be viable in a strike, and several mechanics that would be fundamentally counter to a strike.

I would agree it could be a better fight, but the entire narrative is that she was grievously injured on the Breachmaker deck (she's seen limping away in agony after you destroy the Prime Hologram), and she's on her literal last leg once you chase her in.

There is no way that they'll make that, even revamped, into the strike mission. The Prime Hologram is 110% where all the craze and interest is at. And it has the perfect space for a strike battle, too, and is already structured for strike.

 

Why make something completely brand new, when something already exists at the ready?

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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53 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Honestly? It's even easier.

It was set up that you didn't even have to attack her. After a set amount of time (~3 minutes), she would simply die on her own. And that was just for players who couldn't dodge past her grenades that launched you back. But yeah, it had zero mechanics that would be viable in a strike, and several mechanics that would be fundamentally counter to a strike.

I would agree it could be a better fight, but the entire narrative is that she was grievously injured on the Breachmaker deck (she's seen limping away in agony after you destroy the Prime Hologram), and she's on her literal last leg once you chase her in.

There is no way that they'll make that, even revamped, into the strike mission. The Prime Hologram is 110% where all the craze and interest is at. And it has the perfect space for a strike battle, too, and is already structured for strike.

 

Why make something completely brand new, when something already exists at the ready?

I can agree that it its current form, it would make a terrible strike. However id also argue in its current form it is a terrible exodus to the season's villain. Some things are worth redoing, and scarlet who is not only the main villain of this season/story arc, but also has a resounding impact that continues all the way into expansion three, deserves a more epic way to go. Something that really makes her feel more threatening, and earns her the infamy that she is long remembered for. I mean, currently, we only ever fight her once, at the end of the playhouse. 

 

If she is on her last legs, its merely a matter of rewriting it so that she is not AS severely injured. Instead make her a wounded, cornered tiger, who fights all the more ferociously because she is in a terrible situation. 

Edited by OtakuModeEngage.8679
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3 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

I can agree that it its current form, it would make a terrible strike. However id also argue in its current form it is a terrible exodus to the season's villain. Some things are worth redoing, and scarlet who is not only the main villain of this season/story arc, but also has a resounding impact that continues all the way into expansion three, deserves a more epic way to go. Something that really makes her feel more threatening, and earns her the infamy that she is long remembered for. I mean, currently, we only ever fight her once, at the end of the playhouse. 

The Prime Hologram fight and big cinematics aren't enough? Because it sure as heck was back in 2014.

Scarlet's End is basically Scarlet's equivalent to killing Ryland while he's super debilitated during Champion's End. And that fight wasn't anything special - certainly not strike worthy - nor should it have been. It was Ryland's last leg, and is more story than combat.

And honestly, I think you're greatly over-blowing just how influential of a villain Scarlet was. And how well liked she was - she's more liked this time because they added new and better voiced lines from Tara Strong (and took some cheesy ones away) and didn't highlight the primary point of contention: Scarlet's background. But they also reduced the amount of times we encounter her and beat her up which works in her favor because she's no longer just instantly getting away with harley quinn styled laughter like the villain sue her background establishes her as. She definitely feels less like a Sue character this time around because they preemptively downplayed (read: retconned, in a good way) her background and her ability to get away no matter how outmatched she actually is.

3 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

If she is on her last legs, its merely a matter of rewriting it so that she is not AS severely injured. Instead make her a wounded, cornered tiger, who fights all the more ferociously because she is in a terrible situation. 

The thing is, if they did that, they would not only have to redo the entire mechanical encounter from scratch, but would have to redo all the recorded dialogue and the cinematics. The more work they have to put in here, the less time they have to make the one (or two) group instanced content and other stuff function properly.

Granted they did completely revamp the final fight of Scarlet's Playhouse, and altered the Mai Trin fight minorly, but even then it wasn't to such a huge extent that it required re-recording all the old dialogue.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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13 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

escape of lions arch inst the final of ls1?

if it is, i doubt it will be the episode 5, because the trinkets collection we have 6 to collect, so will be 6 episodes.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lion's_Memory

Yea you probabely get the last item from the  normal mode strike that release at the same time as Escape of lions arch.

Edited by Linken.6345
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I am very much hoping to see the 2 big attack on LA missions be repurposed into private/public Dragonstorm like instances as well.

This is something I specifically stated would be imo the best way to reintroduce this content in one of my many "Bring back LWS1!" posts after the Ice Brood Saga finished up.
And I still hope that one day in the future more or less all of Season 1 will be reintroduced in some way as well and the Karka attack on LA will also get this same treatment.

Some may not particularly care about the original Karka attack on LA that kicked off LWS1 but there are a lot of us that despite being around for this event were unable to play it due to the horrendous technical issues that happened when the event when live.

My and many others experience with this event was as follows.
Chilling in LA
Cutscene.
Horrendous lag slowing the game to borderline stop motion.
Screen fills with pink things..
Map full of dead players, including me.
Disconnected from the game.
Relog.. and missed the event.

It really sucks this happened but it's understandable since Anet was very new to this living world idea at the time and nobody really knew what to expect.
But personally I would love to see this content get reintroduced as a Dragonstorm like event further down the road as it's probably one of if not the rarest pieces of content in Gw2 that anyone in the playerbase actually got to experience.

I can say I was there all those years ago.. but I can't say I was ever able to experience this content 😞

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19 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

escape of lions arch inst the final of ls1?

if it is, i doubt it will be the episode 5, because the trinkets collection we have 6 to collect, so will be 6 episodes.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lion's_Memory

It's been long confirmed that there will only be 5 episodes. We do not know why there are six trinkets despite this. From the strike mission is the most common guess so far.

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On 9/19/2022 at 11:25 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The Prime Hologram fight and big cinematics aren't enough? Because it sure as heck was back in 2014.

Its a good fight, but an epic scarlet fight is what we are missing.

On 9/19/2022 at 11:25 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Scarlet's End is basically Scarlet's equivalent to killing Ryland while he's super debilitated during Champion's End. And that fight wasn't anything special - certainly not strike worthy - nor should it have been. It was Ryland's last leg, and is more story than combat.

But that's the problem, it should be.

On 9/19/2022 at 11:25 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And honestly, I think you're greatly over-blowing just how influential of a villain Scarlet was. And how well liked she was - she's more liked this time because they added new and better voiced lines from Tara Strong (and took some cheesy ones away) and didn't highlight the primary point of contention: Scarlet's background. But they also reduced the amount of times we encounter her and beat her up which works in her favor because she's no longer just instantly getting away with harley quinn styled laughter like the villain sue her background establishes her as. She definitely feels less like a Sue character this time around because they preemptively downplayed (read: retconned, in a good way) her background and her ability to get away no matter how outmatched she actually is.

As your saying, she wasn't well liked, because she was credited for building four armies and awakening a dragon, but she was introduced very late in season 1 and it was hard to accept this mastermind that appeared out of nowhere and had very little build up. They fixed a lot of that this time by shortening and compacting  season 1 (so it didn't feel like she came in so late this time), as well as by adding lore pages and recordings, as well as a few informative instances where we gather with our friends to talk about her. But what she is still lacking is a good fight that truly shows off how dangerous she was. At this point we only ever fight her once, at the jubile, and i think to really cement her a proper villain, a final climatic fight is needed.

On 9/19/2022 at 11:25 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The thing is, if they did that, they would not only have to redo the entire mechanical encounter from scratch, but would have to redo all the recorded dialogue and the cinematics. The more work they have to put in here, the less time they have to make the one (or two) group instanced content and other stuff function properly.

Granted they did completely revamp the final fight of Scarlet's Playhouse, and altered the Mai Trin fight minorly, but even then it wasn't to such a huge extent that it required re-recording all the old dialogue.

Eh, they've added and changed a few instances, what's one more? Plus i think the climax of the season is the most worthy for a redo, as it should be the biggest fight, as its the climax.

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6 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

Its a good fight, but an epic scarlet fight is what we are missing.

But that's the problem, it should be.

Scarlet is part of the Prime Hologram fight. It IS our epic Scarlet fight.

6 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

As your saying, she wasn't well liked, because she was credited for building four armies and awakening a dragon, but she was introduced very late in season 1 and it was hard to accept this mastermind that appeared out of nowhere and had very little build up.

This is fundamentally false.

  1. Scarlet was hated on her introduction in Clockwork Chaos, long before she had been credited with building four armies (it was two at the time) and long before she had awakened a dragon.
  2. She was introduced in the middle of Season 1 - Queen's Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos were the 6th of technically 11 storylines of Season 1. Just like the rework, really. I can understand this one since most of the cut non-festival storylines after Clockwork Chaos were small (Tequal Rising, Fractured, etc.), though.
  3. She had plenty of build-up, from Flame and Frost mentioning a silver-spooned city dweller at the end, to Mai Trin name-dropping her in Sky Pirates. ANet devs even hinted in multiple interviews, streams, and uploaded videos that the LW would eventually introduce a "personal nemesis" for players. People were constantly speculating as to who the person referenced these times was (though no one thought all three would be the same person).

The reason Scarlet was hated was not simply that she was "a mastermind that appeared out of nowhere and did a bunch of things". It was specifically her backstory and the fact the way she was written in (which got altered with LWS1R) was as basically a British Harley Quinn with no show of her mastermind abilities directly, and was given a very Villain Sue setup with both her backstory and the fact that despite our constant victories against her, she always came out on top in every scenario once introduced.

6 hours ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

Eh, they've added and changed a few instances, what's one more? Plus i think the climax of the season is the most worthy for a redo, as it should be the biggest fight, as its the climax.

All three of the added instances are just standing around with dialogue tbh, and all the voiced lines during them already existed.

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11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Scarlet is part of the Prime Hologram fight. It IS our epic Scarlet fight.

Fair enough.

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

This is fundamentally false.

  1. Scarlet was hated on her introduction in Clockwork Chaos, long before she had been credited with building four armies (it was two at the time) and long before she had awakened a dragon.

Correction, as of the time of the Queens Jubile she had three armies. The Molten Alliance, the Aetherblades and the Twisted Clockwork Army. So yes, at that time it was a big reveal that she was the mastermind behind all the recent troubles.

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
  1. She was introduced in the middle of Season 1 - Queen's Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos were the 6th of technically 11 storylines of Season 1. Just like the rework, really. I can understand this one since most of the cut non-festival storylines after Clockwork Chaos were small (Tequal Rising, Fractured, etc.), though.

It may have been in the middle, but given the original broken up cadence of episodes, it felt like a long way in.

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
  1. She had plenty of build-up, from Flame and Frost mentioning a silver-spooned city dweller at the end, to Mai Trin name-dropping her in Sky Pirates. ANet devs even hinted in multiple interviews, streams, and uploaded videos that the LW would eventually introduce a "personal nemesis" for players. People were constantly speculating as to who the person referenced these times was (though no one thought all three would be the same person).

Me, and a lot of other players, felt all the hints dropped in blogs and such, that ANet had posted on their website, youtube and twitch, did not count as proper story build up, as it was not actually in the story.

 

Also wasn't the name drop in sky pirates added in the rerelease?

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The reason Scarlet was hated was not simply that she was "a mastermind that appeared out of nowhere and did a bunch of things". It was specifically her backstory and the fact the way she was written in (which got altered with LWS1R) was as basically a British Harley Quinn with no show of her mastermind abilities directly, and was given a very Villain Sue setup with both her backstory and the fact that despite our constant victories against her, she always came out on top in every scenario once introduced.

That may have been one of the reasons, and perhaps the most important to you personally, but it wasn't the only. Don't try to tell me what i didn't like.

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18 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

Correction, as of the time of the Queens Jubile she had three armies. The Molten Alliance, the Aetherblades and the Twisted Clockwork Army. So yes, at that time it was a big reveal that she was the mastermind behind all the recent troubles.

Not really, but arguably a "point of view" issue. She's introduced in Opening Ceremony, and only creates the Twisted Watchwork army out of the Watchknights in Closing Ceremony, where her name/face gets properly revealed, two weeks later.

18 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

It may have been in the middle, but given the original broken up cadence of episodes, it felt like a long way in.

With a long way to go too.

18 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

Me, and a lot of other players, felt all the hints dropped in blogs and such, that ANet had posted on their website, youtube and twitch, did not count as proper story build up, as it was not actually in the story.

 

Also wasn't the name drop in sky pirates added in the rerelease?

No. The dialogue in Sky Pirates was changed, but Mai Trin always name dropped Scarlet. It went from:

Mai Trin: This has all gone to crud. Scarlet's gonna have my noggin for screwing up.

To:

Mai Trin: Scarlet's gonna have my skull.

thanks to their very bizarre rewriting of Mai Trin to have as few words spoken as possible (I swear, they pay the new VA by the word for Mai Trin with how short and curt her lines are - original dialogue is 5000% times better).

18 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

That may have been one of the reasons, and perhaps the most important to you personally, but it wasn't the only. Don't try to tell me what i didn't like.

Most important to the vast community at the time. Forums, reddit, etc. primarily complained about that. Obviously individuals would have different focuses. I'm not saying what you didn't like, I'm saying what the vocal community didn't like, and you alone don't make up the community.

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This is one place season 1 definitely falls short for me, not much to speculate on with no new maps and of course it being old content so we already know the outcome.  Personally a lot more excited for season 6 and how many Cantha maps can we get?!
 

But about season 1 it seems cut and dry it’ll be all the attack on lions arch stuff and the final battle will be a strike.. i guess through eye of the North? Or a third strike hub not tied to any specific expansion or later story? possibly the most interesting thing of episode 5 to me is where they’ll add that strike. Once they figure out how they want to handle adding strikes of content from before strikes were added, I think it could potentially be very interesting to get other key story fights as a strike.

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2 hours ago, Fenom.9457 said:

But about season 1 it seems cut and dry it’ll be all the attack on lions arch stuff and the final battle will be a strike.. i guess through eye of the North? Or a third strike hub not tied to any specific expansion or later story? possibly the most interesting thing of episode 5 to me is where they’ll add that strike. Once they figure out how they want to handle adding strikes of content from before strikes were added, I think it could potentially be very interesting to get other key story fights as a strike.

It would be nice if they turned Vigil Keep into the hub for both strike and large group instanced version of EfLA. Similar to where they have the chopper in Thunder Ridge.

It'll mean no event to gain access to LA via the three entrances in Gendarran Fields, Lornar's Pass, and Bloodtide Coast though and similarly unlikely to have the discussions between Braham/Rox, Marjory/Kasmeer in the first two, but it makes sense and works thematically.

I do hope they bring back the Bloodtide Coast and Lornar's Pass refugee camps though - and done better than the Thunder Ridge Camp NPCs which is a complete mess.

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On 9/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Not really, but arguably a "point of view" issue. She's introduced in Opening Ceremony, and only creates the Twisted Watchwork army out of the Watchknights in Closing Ceremony, where her name/face gets properly revealed, two weeks later.

With a long way to go too.

Technically her clockwork army was revealed in the closing ceremony, but it was created before. She had to reprogram them before she could hit the switch so to speak. 

On 9/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

No. The dialogue in Sky Pirates was changed, but Mai Trin always name dropped Scarlet. It went from:

Mai Trin: This has all gone to crud. Scarlet's gonna have my noggin for screwing up.

To:

Mai Trin: Scarlet's gonna have my skull.

thanks to their very bizarre rewriting of Mai Trin to have as few words spoken as possible (I swear, they pay the new VA by the word for Mai Trin with how short and curt her lines are - original dialogue is 5000% times better).

It seems i was wrong on this one, she was hinted at, but a name drop alone doesn't really count as proper build up in my book. 

On 9/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Most important to the vast community at the time. Forums, reddit, etc. primarily complained about that. Obviously individuals would have different focuses. I'm not saying what you didn't like, I'm saying what the vocal community didn't like, and you alone don't make up the community.

I was around too man, i remember the community outrage as well. Obviously this is a case of us recalling the issues that were most meaningful to us personally. 

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1 hour ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

Technically her clockwork army was revealed in the closing ceremony, but it was created before. She had to reprogram them before she could hit the switch so to speak. 

Sure, but players wouldn't have known that during Opening Ceremony / Queen's Jubilee.

1 hour ago, OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

It seems i was wrong on this one, she was hinted at, but a name drop alone doesn't really count as proper build up in my book.

It's more than a mere name-drop. It's a name-drop of a boss behind the scenes who either directly or indirectly planned for Mai Trin to assassinate a member of the Captain's Council and replace them (which Mai Trin said was her plan during Not So Secret - a line which was removed and regulated to new voice recordings during Clockwork Chaos).

Of course in the re-release, this build up is even heavier, because we don't get just "a city dweller with a silver spoon tongue that convinced Flame and Dredge to work together" during F&F, but "someone going by the name of B, who is a city dwelller yada-yada-yada". And with Sky Pirates, while we lose what Mai Trin's plan was, we still get the Scarlet name drop, as well as "B" being name dropped as Inquest's hirer/contact - both via the Investigative Study stuff.

 

Point being: she doesn't come out of nowhere. It's just that the "British Harley Quinn" personality mixed in with "despite beating her up a dozen times in the first two releases she's involved in she gets away scott free and her backstory has her doing the same while always getting exactly what she wanted" annoyed people. There was never any issue of "Scarlet wasn't fought enough times" in the original re-release.

But anyways, we'll see what they do for Episode 5. I doubt they'd be able to change much at this point anyways.

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