D/D DD Condi Build

[Khalni.3864]

Ok, first things first: i didn't break my D key lol.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABgiprlRwcYbMNGJO2W+tNA-zZoOlCUApIB6VIEwIwpDA

Created this some weeks ago. I really like it, but wanted your opinion about it, and if it could be improved in some ways. I know D/D isn't the best, but i find it really fun and i'd like to keep it this way.
Basically the strategy is using Death Blossom as much as possible, cloack and dagger for utility, and AA when out of initiative (it's still some poison). Pistols are there mostly to have a ranged option with good damage and utilities, a good interrupt, and a decent sneak attack when you can manange to use it.
P/P can be changed for SB if needed, but it loses Deadly Abition boost on Unload.
Shadowstep and Daggerstorm are the only things i wouldn't change for anything in the world. I chose Vigor and Daggers cause the Physical trait is awesome (faster healing is really good and Impairing Daggers are awesome if you manage to land them (qich takes some practice). I'm using the signet cause Lotus training means no Unhindered Combatant wich slows us down, and the vulnerability is really useful if timed correctly.
Sigils are a bit in testing phase atm, they're the thing i'm worried most.

Any advice appreciated. Thank you!

[UNOwen.7132]

Remove Pressure Striking. The only interrupt you have is pistol 4, and it still isnt even remotely worth using. Probably Bountiful theft? I'd also switch to a different off-hand weapon. Shortbow for mobility ideally, youll pretty much always use DD for damage. Dont know if I like Burst of Agility, I think Id rather have Thrill of the Crime. Impairing daggers arent great, Id use either signet of agility or a venom instead, and Id probably switch the physical trait for either of the other 2. Otherwise seems fine?

[Khalni.3864]

My bad about Pressure Striking, i somehow thought it would work with the daggers' immobilize. Bountiful Theft will do.
I'll try shortbow, but didn't have a good experience with it.
Thrill is proabably better than burst of agility, i basically hated unacatchable and was testing those two.
I like daggers, they do a ton of damage, and i almost never had the necessity of another condi cleanse...
 

[Sahne.6950]

10 hours ago, Khalni.3864 said:

Ok, first things first: i didn't break my D key lol.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABgiprlRwcYbMNGJO2W+tNA-zZoOlCUApIB6VIEwIwpDA

Created this some weeks ago. I really like it, but wanted your opinion about it, and if it could be improved in some ways. I know D/D isn't the best, but i find it really fun and i'd like to keep it this way.
Basically the strategy is using Death Blossom as much as possible, cloack and dagger for utility, and AA when out of initiative (it's still some poison). Pistols are there mostly to have a ranged option with good damage and utilities, a good interrupt, and a decent sneak attack when you can manange to use it.
P/P can be changed for SB if needed, but it loses Deadly Abition boost on Unload.
Shadowstep and Daggerstorm are the only things i wouldn't change for anything in the world. I chose Vigor and Daggers cause the Physical trait is awesome (faster healing is really good and Impairing Daggers are awesome if you manage to land them (qich takes some practice). I'm using the signet cause Lotus training means no Unhindered Combatant wich slows us down, and the vulnerability is really useful if timed correctly.
Sigils are a bit in testing phase atm, they're the thing i'm worried most.

Any advice appreciated. Thank you!

-did you try dagger / dagger + dagger / dagger with energy + venom on both weaponsets? If you swap between the weaponsets you will still be on d+d but you keep filling up your endurance, so you can evade alot more.

-The agony rune is a complete waste, as you are overshooting the bleedduration. No one is going to let a 12 second bleed tick on them. Every duration over 7 seconds is wasted in my opinion.

-you should use escapist fortitude trait, instead of traiting your physical skills. Escapist fortitude is just crazy strong for a build that is evading nonstop.

-Burst of agility is completly nonsense... why would you want quickness, when quickness is speeding up the animations of your evades, thus shortening the window where you are evading. use Uncatchable or thrill of crime. (use uncatchable if you run rune of lynx as the swfitness wont be as important cuz you already have a movementspeed bonus from that)

-use Bountifultheft or trickster. Bountifultheft will be nice because of the vigor. With trickster you can use withdraw and roll for initiative. but pressure striking is a waste.

-Signet of shadows is bigtime garbage. If you REALLY REALLY want that 25% movementspeed... go for rune of the lynx.

-impairing daggers is also not very good. prepare Thousand needles is ALOT more damage and in a conquest setting can turn the whole fight around because it covers the whole node.

 

 

i would run something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABgihjlNwoYbsOGJOuW5NNA-zZoOjUkCZqCc8AA

 

or something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABgihjlFwoYbsMGJOuW1NNA-zZoOjUkCZqCc6AA

 

basicly if you are really wanting to play d/d (which is not very good atm) you should focus on being a pain in the butt to deal with. You should focus on evading NONSTOP. both builds have build in endurance and initiative gain, that allow you to be literally untouchable for 30 seconds before you run out of ressources. If you dont mind loosing your mobility you can swap Lynx for thorns... but your a roamer and need the mobility.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Knote.2904]

Last time I had success with condi D/D thief was like in beta/start of release :sadge 

Bleeds are just the worst dmg condition in the game because they're all tuned to only do dmg at large stacks you have to build AND super long durations so they're insanely weak to any amount of cleanse.

You could literally spend 5-6 seconds building bleeds on someone not bothering to dodge only for it to be completely wiped away by a literal passive cleanse lol. Makes me sad because I miss my OG assassin build in GW1, where I would aura of w/e to teleport in, cc chain/burst/condition and teleport out and watch them die to bleed/poison. Very thematic :<

Edited September 20, 2022 by Knote.2904

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*Quietly drinking tea in the corner, sweating* 

[Khalni.3864]

Hello, i'm currently trying to update this build a bit, since relics killed the nice part of rune of scavenging 😞

Current version

I swapped to necormancer rune and added fractal relic (more condi variety). Signet of shadows is still bad but rune of Lynx is worse.
I still alwasy forget to do a hit with sb before swapping to activate sigil of doom.
Thoughts?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

20 minutes ago, Khalni.3864 said:

Hello, i'm currently trying to update this build a bit, since relics killed the nice part of rune of scavenging 😞

Current version

I swapped to necormancer rune and added fractal relic (more condi variety). Signet of shadows is still bad but rune of Lynx is worse.
I still alwasy forget to do a hit with sb before swapping to activate sigil of doom.
Thoughts?

*Still drinking tea in the corner, sweating*

Interesting build, fractal synergy is a good call to jam bleeding, and burning/torment arent anything to sneeze at. You're going to have to hit a death blossom + steal + a dodge on someone to proc fractal, or hit an entire clusterbomb (or 75% of one + a dodge) + a steal to even consider getting the proc though. That's a heck of a lot of setup for a couple of condis that the person you're fighting is now thinking about cleansing once they see you're condi oriented. People arent going to just sit around with 6 stacks of bleeding on them for longer than a couple seconds unless you apply it constantly, or all at once. 

Maybe you want to run this with pistol dagger instead? dodge -> mid-dodge Steal + PD 3 -> repeater will put Fractal to good use, uses half the init and resources, and gives you more than enough wiggle room to shortbow out if it doesn't melt them. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Khalni.3864]

Wow that was a long tea XD
The trap generally helps tho, as it gives 2 bleeding per pulse. You're right tho, it's a lot of setup. I still have to take a good look on relics, Mirage may be decent, but i'll look onto them in depth.
I don't like the condi dodge too, and using unhindered combatant may give us a way to remove the signet (and run another healing skill if needed). However, dash is really long, so we'll have to play around that, and we'll have to deal with a -15% condi damage wich is honestly a lot 😞

13 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Maybe you want to run this with pistol dagger instead? dodge -> mid-dodge Steal + PD 3 -> repeater will put Fractal to good use, uses half the init and resources, and gives you more than enough wiggle room to shortbow out if it doesn't melt them. 

I'm still convinced on d/d. P/D may be better, bit i like this playstyle too much and don't mind not going over low palt with this.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Khalni.3864

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Khalni.3864 said:

I'm still convinced on d/d. P/D may be better, bit i like this playstyle too much and don't mind not going over low palt with this.

I play D/D because I like the aesthetic of it, so this is something I can understand and get behind. If that's the case, godspeed. It's definitely doable~

[Khalni.3864]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Maybe you want to run this with pistol dagger instead? dodge -> mid-dodge Steal + PD 3 -> repeater will put Fractal to good use, uses half the init and resources, and gives you more than enough wiggle room to shortbow out if it doesn't melt them. 

Ye you nailed it XD I hate asymmetrical weapon combos 🙂
What do you think about Dash/Other relics?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

14 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

You're going to have to hit a death blossom + steal + a dodge on someone to proc fractal, or hit an entire clusterbomb (or 75% of one + a dodge) + a steal to even consider getting the proc though

*laugh in mesmer's pistol*

Edited September 22, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

*laugh in mesmer's pistol*

you shush 

21 hours ago, Khalni.3864 said:

Ye you nailed it XD I hate asymmetrical weapon combos 🙂
What do you think about Dash/Other relics?

I have been tempted by unseen invasion, but I'd consider Relic of isgarren or Relic of the Aristocracy for this build as well. Condi duration isn't something I'd lean into ordinarily, but because you put out low amounts of bleed frequently it might be worth looking at. 

Dash is fine, has more utility than the whirl from Lotus training. If you want to use Lotus training I'd devote a bit more utility to escaping, since the dodge is anti stealth (since it fires daggers when you dodge near someone, even if stealthed) and low mobility.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Khalni.3864]

Tbh i find myself stealthing a couple of times per match if not less. Apart from escaping and stealthing the group (like those were two small things lol) this build doesn't have tremendous advantages from stealth (we don't use backstab, we need a target for cloak and dagger to hit...) so i honestly avoid it if not for group stealth (if someone provides the field). If running Dash maybe hide in shadows can be taken, but i would personally prefer a Channeled vigor and evade with the endurance i gained form it. Plus Dash makes Shadows useless, so we could run a Roll for initiative/Blinding Powder/Smokescreen (wich gives the combo field to stealth the group) or impairing daggers (hard to land) if we go full burst (not likely XD)?

For condi duration i'd be ok, but i think we'll need another way to seal bleeding and poison behind 2-3 other condis to avoid the cleanses (thousand needles also gives cripple, immobilize and weakness, that's why we never lead with the trap), a venom could help with this if running another relic, but it seems a bit of a waste of utility slot. I wish we had access to another sigil that gives conditions on hit/weapon swap tbh. Exposure (vulnerability) and stagnation (Slow) are the only ones beside doom.