Are you guys happy for the upcoming love that Druids will be getting?

[PrinceValentine.9320]

I mostly play Firebrand and Scrapper because I like to play support in WvW. There are times that I play my condi Soulbeast with some group support stuff like heals and condi cleanse from Jacaranda pet, and also a couple of support buffs to my team using stances. 

I am quite hyped with these talks that I am hearing about Druid becoming  a staple addition to the support meta this coming patch. I have already prepared  a full minstrel gear for my ranger. Our guild leader has been spamming for weeks now to create Druids before the patch comes. It's crazy and I love it. 

So what do you guys think? Is it really happening that Rangers will be added to the meta support in WvW? Has anyone theorycrafted a good build yet? 

[Beddo.1907]

We have nothing to beat Firebrands and Scrappers in support slot. 

Healing alone isn't enough and other support parts we have are kinda lacking, so unless we get some more stuff in the patch, we are not good enough.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

28 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

We have nothing to beat Firebrands and Scrappers in support slot. 

Healing alone isn't enough and other support parts we have are kinda lacking, so unless we get some more stuff in the patch, we are not good enough.

Honestly, they need to make staff 5 bigger. A lot bigger. And make projectiles keep their momentum when passing through the wall.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

We have nothing to beat Firebrands and Scrappers in support slot. 

Healing alone isn't enough and other support parts we have are kinda lacking, so unless we get some more stuff in the patch, we are not good enough.

Don't you think thats a being pessimistic? Ive heard Druids will be getting stabs too and Rangers got the best immobilize on this game. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

18 minutes ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Don't you think thats a being pessimistic? Ive heard Druids will be getting stabs too and Rangers got the best immobilize on this game. 

We'll be giving up our immobilize (entangle) for glyph of the stars if getting stab. Don't act like it's an improvement when it's a tradeoff- more disruption or stability.

 

Ranger needs some major buffs to be able to keep up with firebrand for a heal support role in wvw.

[anduriell.6280]

14 minutes ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Don't you think thats a being pessimistic? Ive heard Druids will be getting stabs too and Rangers got the best immobilize on this game. 

2 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

We'll be giving up our immobilize (entangle) for glyph of the stars if getting stab. Don't act like it's an improvement when it's a tradeoff- more disruption or stability.

That stability will be available in a 60s CD elite skill. the only decent effect, impeding new condition application, has been removed.

Firebrand alternative, don't make me laugh. Forest boi doesn't get to play in wvw. 

 

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

From the perspective of sPVP and wvw, no.

The big nerf to druidic clarity is going to hit hard. Druids scale terribly with power builds, and even condi builds are not the most powerful, as compared to other classes. 

Sustain. That is what gives the druid the time to wear down their opponent. With druidic clarity nerfed, the ability to sustain has greatly diminished. Together with a 20 second CD for CA in sPVP, it will be even more difficult to have a build that can sustain long enough to do damage. 

Even in wvw, with a 10 CD for CA, playing against classes that can place lots of condi on you will mean playing even more conservatively. 

Druid needs some buffs to staff 1, in terms of power, or even condi (stacks of burning, it is, afterall, a solar beam).

These comments relate to roaming and dueling builds, and not support builds. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341

[PrinceValentine.9320]

23 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

That stability will be available in a 60s CD elite skill. the only decent effect, impeding new condition application, has been removed.

Firebrand alternative, don't make me laugh. Forest boi doesn't get to play in wvw. 

 

I am not saying that Druids will become an alternative to Firebrand. I think Druids will synergize well with other classes if given the chance. Scourges can do the boon strip and Druids will immobilize and just a lot of other things that I can think of that Druids can do this coming patch aside from the great heal that they can provide. 

I still think that a number of Druids will be welcome to the squad this coming patch and my guild leader has already advised us to start practicing playing a support Druid. 

[Beddo.1907]

30 minutes ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

I am not saying that Druids will become an alternative to Firebrand. I think Druids will synergize well with other classes if given the chance. Scourges can do the boon strip and Druids will immobilize and just a lot of other things that I can think of that Druids can do this coming patch aside from the great heal that they can provide. 

I still think that a number of Druids will be welcome to the squad this coming patch and my guild leader has already advised us to start practicing playing a support Druid. 

No they will not be welcomed. Firebrand, scrapper and necro (or spellbreaker at least) are pretty much must have in each group, after that you need 2 players to do the actual dps.

Now enters ranger who can't do the job of any of those. Druid can't support the same way, there is no viable boon strip/corrupt and no skills/weapon to do the dps. 

And then let's not forget that a chunk of ranger numbers decides to either die or do nothing to not die.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

54 minutes ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

I am not saying that Druids will become an alternative to Firebrand. I think Druids will synergize well with other classes if given the chance. Scourges can do the boon strip and Druids will immobilize and just a lot of other things that I can think of that Druids can do this coming patch aside from the great heal that they can provide. 

I still think that a number of Druids will be welcome to the squad this coming patch and my guild leader has already advised us to start practicing playing a support Druid. 

Druid basically needs to become an alternative to firebrand to be able to compete. With limited room in squads why would you ever take a druid when a firebrand can heal better, provide aegis and stability better, and still have room for other boons?

[PrinceValentine.9320]

....

Edited September 20, 2022 by PrinceValentine.9320

[PrinceValentine.9320]

11 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Druid basically needs to become an alternative to firebrand to be able to compete. With limited room in squads why would you ever take a druid when a firebrand can heal better, provide aegis and stability better, and still have room for other boons?

Firebrand's heal is not that good. Druids can heal better than Firebrands, and maybe even better than Scrappers and Tempests. 

[Soilder.3607]

4 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Druid basically needs to become an alternative to firebrand to be able to compete. With limited room in squads why would you ever take a druid when a firebrand can heal better, provide aegis and stability better, and still have room for other boons?

Druid does not compete with firebrand. Neither does tempest, scrapper, nor heal Vindicator.

 

Firebrand is brought primarily for group stability, aegis and other protective boons. Firebrand is not a primary healer nor cleanser; it has supplemental healing and cleansing. Scrapper, Tempest, Vindicator and Druid can all easily out cleanse and out heal a Firebrand. But none of those specs will be taken over a firebrand because the firebrand is the dominant provider of group stab.

 

Scrapper fulfills the second support slot of primary healer and cleanser. Druid and all other non-Firebrand supports (tempest, vindicator) will be competing for that spot after the Oct 4th patch. Scrapper is not the best individual healer or cleaner. It's quite good at both, but Tempest can cleanse more than Scrapper while both Druid and Vindicator can outheal it. Scrapper is brought not because it can heal and cleanse but because of the massive amount of utility it brings in addition to healing and cleansing, such as group stealth and superspeed, quickness, protection etc... Arenanet is nerfing a lot of what scrapper brings to the table with this patch. They're taking a big hit to their cleansing abilities, they're losing their ability to give quickness, and their gyros will no longer follow them so the advantage of a mobile stealth field will be lost. Druid is gaining high uptime of group protection, an excellent source of stability with the elite glyph (which will also cleanse/revive) and increased healing. Post patch Druid will be competitive because it can combine high healing and high cleansing with excellent boon support (group prot, group stab, perma regeneration). I don't know which class will be the meta healer after patch, it might even stay scrapper simply because they aren't losing all their utility, but the spot of healer is gonna be less set in stone than it is now.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Partially. I like the attention but not the direction. I think druid needs a solid rework froms start to finish.

Edited September 20, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Firebrand's heal is not that good. Druids can heal better than Firebrands, and maybe even better than Scrappers and Tempests. 

Not that isn't either chief, i know it looks fancy but this balancing on-wiki does not work with the Forest Boi. 

I already explained Druid has a 50% downtime where it does practically nothing. Submarine sonar sounds mostly. Tome#3 alone heals more in average and more consistently than Druid Avatar. Ventari is much better than Druid in burst and constant healing and that tablet is annoying to handle. Not counting all the rest of utilities like the bubbles and such. 

I do appreciate your enthusiasm but really, just go play with the forest boi and you will change your mind very quickly. 

 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Firebrand's heal is not that good. Druids can heal better than Firebrands, and maybe even better than Scrappers and Tempests. 

Firebrand brings more than healing. Druid has a massive cost to do said healing, taking a full energy bar for CA, a 10s cooldown, and upon exiting you lose energy. Core ranger's healing skills aren't good enough to make up the difference in healing that firebrand can more consistently output, and druid glyphs aren't good enough to make up that difference either, with rejuvination being the only glyph that heals for a half decent amount outside of CA (2k to allies... whoopie), because every other glyph that can heal only heals in CA.

 

On paper, yes, firebrands heal less than druids. But in practice firebrands have so, SO much more.

 

Don't try and make your main seem worse.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

2 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Firebrand brings more than healing. Druid has a massive cost to do said healing, taking a full energy bar for CA, a 10s cooldown, and upon exiting you lose energy. Core ranger's healing skills aren't good enough to make up the difference in healing that firebrand can more consistently output, and druid glyphs aren't good enough to make up that difference either, with rejuvination being the only glyph that heals for a half decent amount outside I  CA (2k to allies... whoopie), because every other glyph that can heal only heals in CA.

 

On paper, yes, firebrands heal less than druids. But in practice firebrands have so, SO much more.

 

Don't try and make your main seem worse.

Firebrand is getting a huge quickness nerf that is important to its role.

Back to the topic. My guild is quite hyped about the coming patch that we are starting to practice support Druids and Vindicators before the patch comes. I am one of the main support players in my guild because I can play Firebrand, Scrapper and Spellbreaker and can easily switch classes on request and this is the reason why I am so excited about this huge change to Rangers. I love playing support and having to play another viable support class is always welcome. 

I will be practicing my newly geared Druid on reset night and see how it goes. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Firebrand is getting a huge quickness nerf that is important to its role.

Back to the topic. My guild is quite hyped about the coming patch that we are starting to practice support Druids and Vindicators before the patch comes. I am one of the main support players in my guild because I can play Firebrand, Scrapper and Spellbreaker and can easily switch classes on request and this is the reason why I am so excited about this huge change to Rangers. I love playing support and having to play another viable support class is always welcome. 

I will be practicing my newly geared Druid on reset night and see how it goes. 

Either way, firebrand has good baseline might and easy stability and aegis to spare. That's not to mention core guardian skills that can be stacked on top of it.

 

Firebrand is significantly stronger than druid even with the nerfs to firebrand and buffs to druid. Druid can't upkeep alac because spirits are bad in pvp and wvw, grace of the Land means you're burning your already valuable astral power (Celestial Avatar juice) on boons instead of healing, and core ranger doesn't have enough to bolster the supportive aspects of druid unlike core guardian.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Anything to help Druid is a boon. You know its bad when your game's primary healer class isn't taken.

[Soilder.3607]

The whole Druid vs. Firebrand argument that keeps getting brought up in this thread is completely non-sensical. Druid is not supposed to compete with Firebrand for a spot. Ask yourself this: Can scrapper right now replace a firebrand in a comp? No. Does that mean scrapper is unviable in a comp? No because it doesn't compete for the same role. Druid and Tempest and Vindictator are all competing for the spot that scrapper currently occupies, which is the spot of Primary healer and Primary cleanser. Like I said before, scrapper is generally regarded as the best class to occupy that spot for the massive utility it brings in addition to it's cleansing and healing.

 

Arenanet is trying to tone down what scrapper brings to the table while tuning up what others can do. The biggest things scrapper is losing in this patch are 1. quickness (huge nerf) 2. Cleansing output (significant nerf) 3. Stationary gyros (significant nerf) 4. Minor stab application + anti-projectile dome recharge increase (moderate nerf) 5. Healing output (small nerf).

 

Meanwhile druid is gaining 1. Hard source of group stab (massive buff) 2. Group prot (significant buff) 3. Increased healing (moderate buff) 4. More reliable astral force generation (significant buff but this was already available with Lingering Light. Now it's always available with natural mender recharging astral force, so this means you can viably take Grace of the Land for 25 might stacks and have just as much uptime on CA Mode as someone with Lingering Light).

 

Druid gaining stab is also not a sign of Anet trying to push Druid into Firebrands spot. Druid stab is supposed to supplement what Firebrand can bring, so in those instances where your FB has already popped his stab and is waiting on cooldowns you as the Druid can now give stab to plug that gap in coverage. That sort of thing is what guilds will have to decide on when they want to choose one support vs. Another. If we take this support we get better healing and stab to help out FB's, but if we take this support we get better stealth and superspeed etc etc etc. Having an actual decision to make where one support is not just straight up better than another is what leads to a more enjoyable and balanced game because now players don't feel like they have to play that one and only class which can fulfill the role. Now, well hopefully when the patch lands, people who want to heal on their Tempests or Vindictators or Druids can do so and actually offer something that others classes can't bring, and so they don't have to feel like they'd be better off on another class when their own class has reasons for bringing it that can't be matched in the same way by other classes.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Soilder.3607

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

The whole Druid vs. Firebrand argument that keeps getting brought up in this thread is completely non-sensical. Druid is not supposed to compete with Firebrand for a spot. Ask yourself this: Can scrapper right now replace a firebrand in a comp? No. Does that mean scrapper is unviable in a comp? No because it doesn't compete for the same role. Druid and Tempest and Vindictator are all competing for the spot that scrapper currently occupies, which is the spot of Primary healer and Primary cleanser. Like I said before, scrapper is generally regarded as the best class to occupy that spot for the massive utility it brings in addition to it's cleansing and healing.

 

Arenanet is trying to tone down what scrapper brings to the table while tuning up what others can do. The biggest things scrapper is losing in this patch are 1. quickness (huge nerf) 2. Cleansing output (significant nerf) 3. Stationary gyros (significant nerf) 4. Minor stab application + anti-projectile dome recharge increase (moderate nerf) 5. Healing output (small nerf).

 

Meanwhile druid is gaining 1. Hard source of group stab (massive buff) 2. Group prot (significant buff) 3. Increased healing (moderate buff) 4. More reliable astral force generation (significant buff but this was already available with Lingering Light. Now it's always available with natural mender recharging astral force, so this means you can viably take Grace of the Land for 25 might stacks and have just as much uptime on CA Mode as someone with Lingering Light).

 

Druid gaining stab is also not a sign of Anet trying to push Druid into Firebrands spot. Druid stab is supposed to supplement what Firebrand can bring, so in those instances where your FB has already popped his stab and is waiting on cooldowns you as the Druid can now give stab to plug that gap in coverage. That sort of thing is what guilds will have to decide on when they want to choose one support vs. Another. If we take this support we get better healing and stab to help out FB's, but if we take this support we get better stealth and superspeed etc etc etc. Having an actual decision to make where one support is not just straight up better than another is what leads to a more enjoyable and balanced game because now players don't feel like they have to play that one and only class which can fulfill the role. Now, well hopefully when the patch lands, people who want to heal on their Tempests or Vindictators or Druids can do so and actually offer something that others classes can't bring, and so they don't have to feel like they'd be better off on another class when their own class has reasons for bringing it that can't be matched in the same way by other classes.

Love it, to add to why Druid now is a much better for WvW Zergs:

Staff Skill 2: This can now be targeted on allies and produces a pulse heal in an area. 
CA Skill 2: The cast time is now instant, the AoE is bigger, and it has reduced blossoming time

All in all most of the skills that were impossible to deploy on a moving Zerg are now much easier.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Staff Skill 2: This can now be targeted on allies and produces a field.

What field? It does pulse healing, i didn't see any comments about any combo fields

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

CA Skill 2: The cast time is now instant, the AoE is bigger, and it has reduced blossoming time

Which means now you won't have any time to blast the light field it used to leave behind. Another hidden nerf by Anet dev who seems  low key despise the forest boi mains: Now druid can't cleanse . 

I'd like to say at this point you must be trolling but truth be told the devs show your same level of knowledge and understanding of the class. Understandable as  they admittedly only play with the mechanist or firebrand. Such a disgrace. 

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, anduriell.6280 said:

What field? It does pulse healing, i didn't see any comments about any combo fields

Okay i can clarify that better.

4 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Which means now you won't have any time to blast the light field it used to leave behind. Another hidden nerf by Anet dev who seems  low key despise the forest boi mains: Now druid can't cleanse . . 

Hmm the duration is shorter maybe by 1/4 a second but the combo field is bigger so it should be manageable. I think the biggest use is projectile finishers from your allies so in that respect it might be better. We will have to wait and see.

[Arheundel.6451]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

What field? It does pulse healing, i didn't see any comments about any combo fields

Which means now you won't have any time to blast the light field it used to leave behind. Another hidden nerf by Anet dev who seems  low key despise the forest boi mains: Now druid can't cleanse . 

I'd like to say at this point you must be trolling but truth be told the devs show your same level of knowledge and understanding of the class. Understandable as  they admittedly only play with the mechanist or firebrand. Such a disgrace. 

Not that a light field has much use when you are getting condi bombed to death, I prefer to clear condis to an aura reducing condi dmg/duration

[anduriell.6280]

17 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Not that a light field has much use when you are getting condi bombed to death, I prefer to clear condis to an aura reducing condi dmg/duration

right. But still having some is better than having none, don't you agree?