An idea for Legendary Armour to keep the incentivisation once finished

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

One potential problem with the Legendary Armoury is that once you've made a set of Legendary Armour, there isn't very much incentive to go for another of the same type.  e.g. if you have the Raid medium armour, there is no reason to go for the PvP or WvW sets (literally, as they don't even have their own skins).  Similarly, if you have the WvW or PvP armour, you might go for the Raid armour at some point for the skin, but it's a lot of effort at that point for only partial benefit (as the armoury makes the stat switching component redundant).

 

So, I'm suggesting two changes to mitigate this, which I think would incentivise people beyond their first set:

 

1) Add unique skins to the WvW and PvP armours.  They don't need to be raid level, just visually different (The Mistforged armours would have been perfect for this, so basically a flashier version of those).

2) Once you unlock a Legendary Armour piece, add a vendor that will sell you the equivalent pieces from other modes, but only cost the timebound/mode specific components.  So for example if you already have the Raid Medium Headpiece, then you can buy the PvP Medium Headpiece for Ascended Shards/Shards/League Tickets.  This way you still have to actually play the relevant mode fully, but it isn't quite as demanding on the other components.

 

Obviously this isn't fully fleshed out, and it would require careful implementation (e.g. do you need provisioner tokens and HoT stuff to get Raid armour?).  But this would (1) continue to give veterans a goal to work towards once they finish their first armour set(s) and (2) open opportunities for new Legendary Armour sets without heavily punishing players who already put in the work elsewhere.

[Gehenna.3625]

Well, it depends on how large the demographic is that has all 3 sets of legendary armor and want more to do with them versus the cost of making elaborate new skins and collections etc. Also the skins would have to appeal so that people actually want to go for them...and well, that's highly subjective.

I don't think it adds up in favor of implementing this I fear.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

25 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, it depends on how large the demographic is that has all 3 sets of legendary armor and want more to do with them versus the cost of making elaborate new skins and collections etc. Also the skins would have to appeal so that people actually want to go for them...and well, that's highly subjective.

I don't think it adds up in favor of implementing this I fear.

The impression I get from WvW and Raiders at least is that quite a lot of people do actually have all the legendary armour they want (not sure if that's all 3 sets, or just the weights they care about), as there is often a request for new rewards to be added.

 

Also, there'll be a demographic who say, initially got Heavy Armour in WvW, then got into raiding later and like the Heavy skin.

 

Plus the new skins for PvP/WvW will benefit everyone who plays those modes, and by doing it this way it won't be as frustrating for people who chose to go a different path for their first set/pieces.

[Gehenna.3625]

52 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

The impression I get from WvW and Raiders at least is that quite a lot of people do actually have all the legendary armour they want (not sure if that's all 3 sets, or just the weights they care about), as there is often a request for new rewards to be added.

This is what we call anecdotal evidence. It's too small a sample to really represent a group of players. And the fact that people want more rewards doesn't equate to wanting new versions of legendary armor.

52 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Also, there'll be a demographic who say, initially got Heavy Armour in WvW, then got into raiding later and like the Heavy skin.

Which can be true in that direction but not the other way around. But I would think the group of players that enjoys WvW and Raiding is rather small.

52 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Plus the new skins for PvP/WvW will benefit everyone who plays those modes, and by doing it this way it won't be as frustrating for people who chose to go a different path for their first set/pieces.

Well you say it benefits everyone but I don't agree. Only those who go for legendary armor MIGHT benefit from this and only if they like the new skins that Anet would have to make. 

[Nico.9361]

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

1) Add unique skins to the WvW and PvP armours.  They don't need to be raid level, just visually different (The Mistforged armours would have been perfect for this, so basically a flashier version of those).

Do you use the skin from the legendary set? I think mine is used on literally 1 character.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

3 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

This is what we call anecdotal evidence. It's too small a sample to really represent a group of players. And the fact that people want more rewards doesn't equate to wanting new versions of legendary armor.

Which can be true in that direction but not the other way around. But I would think the group of players that enjoys WvW and Raiding is rather small.

Well you say it benefits everyone but I don't agree. Only those who go for legendary armor MIGHT benefit from this and only if they like the new skins that Anet would have to make. 

Fair enough.  This won't benefit everyone, and we don't have enough data to say how big the demographic it will benefit is.

 

So I'm happy to qualify my suggestion as beneficial to "at least some players".

[Firebeard.1746]

I think it's beyond strange that there's no visual upgrade to the WvW and PvP legendary armors when crafted. What other legendary, when crafted, does not change visual appearance, at all? Additionally, it feels strange that the most efficient visual mistforged legendary armor variants are probably to earn the PvE raid set then just buy the appearances and transmog them because of the high cost of components in terms of the limiting currency. Just buying the skins is half the cost (or even less if you don't like mistforged).

 

I think the hackiest/easiest solution is that WvW and PvP legendary armors are mistforged by default and if you don't want the mistforged variant, you transmog it. 

 

That way, that more efficient method for getting competitive, cool skins by using pve   raid armors is at least locked exclusively behind rank grinds and the bonus for crafting the legendary armor for competitive modes is you can circumvent the rank grinds. 

 

It's also beyond strange there's 2 sets for every armor class for pvp and wvw, when in reality the most everyone would ever need is one of each. Pve players don't have to make the painful choice to earn more of the hard currency to have something that looks cooler. Additionally they're rewarded 25 ap for getting all the sets. All this, just doesn't feel fair, from them having the most efficient route to the cooler looking competitive armors, to their armor visually upgrading when turned into a legendary 

 

Also is it any wonder why competitive modes have seen less play, sPvP in particular when its rewards aren't keeping pace with PvE?

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[draxynnic.3719]

There is precedent - some of the ascended competitive armour can be purchased as the skin only (or perhaps an exotic version) for just the price of the currencies specific to that mode (ie shards of glory and exalted shards of glory) without having to craft the grandmaster marks.

The raid armour could have a similar approach. IF you already have a legendary piece for that armour weight, you can purchase the raid skin using only the materials specific to raiding, or at least less of the materials. For instance, a simple approach could be to be able to use the Gift of Craftsmanship in lieu of the Gift of Prosperity, and an Envoy Insignia in lieu of the Gift of Prowess. That way, you don't need to pay the parts that are common to all legendary armour (might and magic, clovers, eldritch scroll, obsidian shard, stabilised dark energy) over again.

[DeanBB.4268]

Wouldn't just doing step 1 be the best solution for Anet? Make the wvw and pvp skins unique and let those who want them get them the same as now. Isn't Anet's goal to keep players in those modes?

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Wvw and pvp legendary armors are not legendary armor skins, they are legendary functionality to ascended skins.  Raid armor is the only legendary skins, they are only obtained by crafting the legendary version, and they are the only skins that advances the legendary armor achievements.

They is plenty of reasons to go after raid armor even if you have other legendary armors, the skins are unique and there is achievements with a title tied to it. Wvw and pvp skins can be unlocked without fully upgrading them because again they are not legendary skins.

[Firebeard.1746]

9 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

So for example if you already have the Raid Medium Headpiece, then you can buy the PvP Medium Headpiece for Ascended Shards/Shards/League Tickets.  This way you still have to actually play the relevant mode fully, but it isn't quite as demanding on the other components.

This is already functionally in game for everything except pve. The mistforged variants i believe are supposed to be "legendary", and pve players can get the mistforged skins without upgrading for a functional equivalent of legendary mistforged via transmogs on their envoy armors.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

32 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

This is already functionally in game for everything except pve. The mistforged variants i believe are supposed to be "legendary", and pve players can but the mistforged skins without upgrading for a functional equivalent of legendary mistforged via transmogs on their envoy armors.

 

41 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Wouldn't just doing step 1 be the best solution for Anet? Make the wvw and pvp skins unique and let those who want them get them the same as now. Isn't Anet's goal to keep players in those modes?

So to combine an answer to both of these, the reason I'm suggesting adding a new skin to WvW and PvP while introducing an exchange system simultaneously is to prevent people who worked for another type of armour being disappointed with their choice in hindsight.

 

Say the PvP armour looks really cool, but you got WvW armour.  It would be very disheartening to have to do all the legendary work again, even though most of the reward is missing because you got it already.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

39 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Wvw and pvp legendary armors are not legendary armor skins, they are legendary functionality to ascended skins.  Raid armor is the only legendary skins, they are only obtained by crafting the legendary version, and they are the only skins that advances the legendary armor achievements.

They is plenty of reasons to go after raid armor even if you have other legendary armors, the skins are unique and there is achievements with a title tied to it. Wvw and pvp skins can be unlocked without fully upgrading them because again they are not legendary skins.

Indeed.  I'm suggesting that ANet should actually add some legendary skins to PvP and WvW.  Though probably not with all the animations because from what I understand the tech on that was a headache (not sure if it still is).

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

So to combine an answer to both of these, the reason I'm suggesting adding a new skin to WvW and PvP while introducing an exchange system simultaneously is to prevent people who worked for another type of armour being disappointed with their choice in hindsight.

 

Say the PvP armour looks really cool, but you got WvW armour.  It would be very disheartening to have to do all the legendary work again, even though most of the reward is missing because you got it already.

I kind of get where people wanting to "spend less for other leggy skins" come from, except there are still some doubts here:

Why isn't it the same with legendary weapons? What if -for example- someone crafted gen 1 and gen 2 greatsword but then gen 3 was released so whoever wants the skin still needs to get the full item? How is armor different in this respect, other than... in this case -as opposed to weapons- the unique skin was released before the other two non-unique ones?

 

13 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Indeed.  I'm suggesting that ANet should actually add some legendary skins to PvP and WvW.  Though probably not with all the animations because from what I understand the tech on that was a headache (not sure if it still is).

Quick question for added context: which legendary armor set/s do you have?

Edited September 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I kind of get where people wanting to "spend less for other leggy skins" come from, except there are still some doubts here:

Why isn't it the same with legendary weapons? What if -for example- someone crafted gen 1 and gen 2 greatsword but then gen 3 was released so whoever wants the skin still needs to get the full item? How is armor different in this respect, other than... in this case -as opposed to weapons- the unique skin was released before the other two non-unique ones?

I thought about Weapons, but the issue there is that the armoury is more complex for weapons due to weapon swap/dual wield.  I'm also going on discussions in other legendary armour threads where there's an argument that they're supposed to incentivise other play types (encourage raiding/WvW/PvP), which isn't the case for the weapons.

 

 

That said, it definitely doesn't sound like a terrible idea, and it's already partially in place through the Aurene variants.  I just didn't want to distract the discussion with nuances that wouldn't apply here.

 

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Quick question for added context: which legendary armor set/s do you have?

I'd prefer not to answer this for now just because there's a lot of inferring of motives that comes up in these threads that I'd rather avoid encouraging.  I'm presenting a case for this system that doesn't (and shouldn't) rely on my specific situation.

[Doggie.3184]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I think it's beyond strange that there's no visual upgrade to the WvW and PvP legendary armors when crafted. What other legendary, when crafted, does not change visual appearance, at all? Additionally, it feels strange that the most efficient visual mistforged legendary armor variants are probably to earn the PvE raid set then just buy the appearances and transmog them because of the high cost of components in terms of the limiting currency. Just buying the skins is half the cost (or even less if you don't like mistforged).

 

I think the hackiest/easiest solution is that WvW and PvP legendary armors are mistforged by default and if you don't want the mistforged variant, you transmog it. 

 

That way, that more efficient methid for getting competitive, cool skins by using pve   raid armors is at least locked exclusively behind rank grinds and the bonus for crafting the legendary armor for competitive modes is you can circumvent the rank grinds. 

 

It's also beyond strange there's 2 sets for every armor class for pvp and wvw, when in reality the most everyone would ever need is one of each. Pve players don't have to make the painful choice to earn more of the hard currency to have something that looks cooler. Additionally they're rewarded 25 ap for getting all the sets. All this, just doesn't feel fair, from them having the most efficient route to the cooler lookong competitive armors, to their armor visually upgrading when turned into a legendary 

 

Also is it any wonder why competitive modes have seen less play, sPvP in particular when its rewards aren't keeping pace with PvE?

 

 

I felt robbed after I made the Spvp legendary chest piece and then realized it wasn't the final version and they expect me to grind a ton more shards to make it look like Legendary Armor. Ultra lame imo.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I thought about Weapons, but the issue there is that the armoury is more complex for weapons due to weapon swap/dual wield.  I'm also going on discussions in other legendary armour threads where there's an argument that they're supposed to incentivise other play types (encourage raiding/WvW/PvP), which isn't the case for the weapons.

Doesn't seem that much more complex, though? It's also why in my example I was talking about having 2 two-handed weapons, that's the cap of what you can use in a build as main and secondary weaponsets. In case of one-handed weapons it's 4.

Just now, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

That said, it definitely doesn't sound like a terrible idea, and it's already partially in place through the Aurene variants.  I just didn't want to distract the discussion with nuances that wouldn't apply here.

I'm just wondering why the few times I've seen that it's about legendary armor and not about weapons. For now, this explained nothing, so I guess I'll keep looking for answers 😄

 

Just now, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I'd prefer not to answer this for now just because there's a lot of inferring of motives that comes up in these threads that I'd rather avoid encouraging.  I'm presenting a case for this system that doesn't (and shouldn't) rely on my specific situation.

Ok, blind guess then: what you're actually vouching for here is at most "an addition of new unique skins for items you've already crafted". 😉 

[draxynnic.3719]

The distinction with legendary weapons, I think, is that legendary weapons always bring a new skin (several for the gen 3s if you make the additional investment). The PvP and WvW armours, however, are purely for the functionality and offer no new skin. So if you then go and get a raid legendary, you have literally nothing for the investment you put into getting the PvP or WvW legendary armour.

So to resolve this, either the PvP and WvW armours need unique skins, or there needs to be a discount on the raid skins for people who already have the functionality from elsewhere.

(And, just for the record, all of my legendary armour is from raids because I recognised the point made in the first paragraph before I made any. So I have no skin in the game personally.)

Edited September 26, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Astralporing.1957]

19 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

Do you use the skin from the legendary set? I think mine is used on literally 1 character.

Of course you do. It's the lack of variety. Not many people would want their every character to look the same. So, since there's no option for legendary armor skins at all (only one choice per armor weight), most people either use them on only one character, or opt out completely.

There's a reason why we have multiple weapon sets, with different visuals - and why Aurene's set has alternate thematic options to unlock on top of its base one. It's exacly due to that - to give us options to choose from.

Legendary Armor does not offer such options.

15 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Quick question for added context: which legendary armor set/s do you have?

The Envoy set (all three).

I did start working on WvW set at some point, but then Armory went in, and so it became meaningless (because it would not offer me anything i would not have already), so i stopped at Conflux.

Notice, that if WvW set did offer a separate, unique legendary skin, i would be mightily tempted to craft it just for that skin alone even after Armoury, when a second legendary armour of the same weight category by itself stopped being useful to have.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Astralporing.1957