scourge

[Turk.5460]

The sheer amount of AoE pressure is what is over-tuned. It's not right that a Scourge can load up enough damaging conditions to kill someone in less than 2 or 3 seconds, even though the scourge didn't even know the other person was there. And the problem is to a lesser extent other AoE's that can be spammed, whether condi or power. Nobody needs a target anymore. Large battles were much more fun when it was less of the "Spam AoE, and the rest of you - heal or buff our AoE spammers so they can spam more AoE."

[Jski.6180]

It comes down to a question is it better to use your mana for a shield or to use your mana to cast a shield. One gives you no chose the other gives you a chose when to have a shield up. Scourge dose not need to use its life force for hp unlike core necro and reaper but core necro and reaper use there life force to cast there hard hitting spells or class spells. In a way that is the root of the problem with scourge as an elite spec and will always put it above its other necro classes.

[intox.6347]

@Turk.5460 said:The sheer amount of AoE pressure is what is over-tuned. It's not right that a Scourge can load up enough damaging conditions to kill someone in less than 2 or 3 seconds, even though the scourge didn't even know the other person was there. And the problem is to a lesser extent other AoE's that can be spammed, whether condi or power. Nobody needs a target anymore. Large battles were much more fun when it was less of the "Spam AoE, and the rest of you - heal or buff our AoE spammers so they can spam more AoE."

What ? I roam on all classes, different builds... and never was killed by scourge in 3 seconds ..... fastest takedowns on really glassy build and when i mess it... was maybe 20 sec. So with wich char you was taken down by scourge in 3 seconds ?

I hope that you dont talk about group play where you take dmg from 5-60 ppl ... :dizzy:Ofc if u stand in shades from 5 scourges with thief, you are dead. But we dont talk about situation like this, yop? i hope so...

[Raychel.9320]

@Jski.6180 said:It comes down to a question is it better to use your mana for a shield or to use your mana to cast a shield. One gives you no chose the other gives you a chose when to have a shield up. Scourge dose not need to use its life force for hp unlike core necro and reaper but core necro and reaper use there life force to cast there hard hitting spells or class spells. In a way that is the root of the problem with scourge as an elite spec and will always put it above its other necro classes.

Not sure if serious or troll, but Scourges give up their double HP bar and 50% direct damage reduction to turn their LF into a resource. Scourges have no option but to blow all their Sand Shade abilities if they want to do good damage and they need to burst in order to win because they will never win a battle of attrition against classes with good sustain, including vs Reaper and maybe even core Necro (lmao.) much less against classes like Spellbreaker or Guardian. Sand Shade abilities are very expensive to cast and Desert Shroud should not be used recklessly, in fact most of the time I use it is as a panic button for the big barrier, rarely do I use it offensively due to its high LF cost. LF generation is pitiful which is why some Scourges in WvW trade Scepter for Axe, less condi application but more reliable LF generation. When you fight a Scourge you will never get more than 2 full rotations of Sand Shade abilities before they ran out of LF and thus significantly reducing their threat potential unless they can get some LF back which takes time and is not easy to do. So if you dodge these 2 full rotations or are able to sustain it, you pretty much already won the right unless you are THAT bad at the game or get ridiculously outplayed. Please play the class before or play it more against competent players before you say stuff like this.

Scourges are a problem in zerg fights because of the stacking that I do agree with, but let's be real here, what isn't problematic when stacked in zerg fights? Do you think Hammer revenants are fine when stacked? Or Guardians or Warriors? They pretty much make some other classes obsolete in zerg fights but no one bats an eye because apparently Guardian and Warrior are the only two classes allowed to be dominant in WvW and make other classes obsolete with their unstoppable melee trains.

[Aeolus.3615]

Kokomi.7183 , are u saying that scourge has no chance against guardians????? did u really said that???

U should be obliterating most guardians builds with necro

[Raychel.9320]

@Aeolus.3615 said:Kokomi.7183 , are u saying that scourge has no chance against guardians????? did u really said that???

U should be obliterating most guardians builds with necro

No, I didn't said that at all. I said that you won't win a fight of attrition against them, you have to burst them down and keep the pressure. If you allow a guardian / dh / firebrand sustain through your abilities you are not going to kill them. I think people really underestimate how quickly a Scourge runs out of gas in a sustained fight.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Kokomi.7183 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Kokomi.7183 , are u saying that scourge has no chance against guardians????? did u really said that???

U should be obliterating most guardians builds with necro

No, I didn't said that at all. I said that you won't win a fight of attrition against them, you have to burst them down and keep the pressure. If you let a guardian / dh / firebrand sustain through your abilities you are not going to kill them.

Ah, ok, was having issues understanding it. :+1:

I actually on my WvW builds i dropped stability and stun breakers from my build and added more direct heals for that kind of fight.

[primatos.5413]

WvW is Fukt up .. not because of some single classe /skills/builds but how Anet treats it . That´s the truth.. nothing more to say but keep discussing and hope they will face the facts ore at least grow the guts to tell us : Yes we don´t care! :)

[Talindra.4958]

@Offair.2563 said:All these silly suggestions to justify a broken spec. Never cease to amaze me.

Same! i never completely understand why people still crying about not able to counter the new build

[Aeolus.3615]

well... balancea bit bette rt> @Talindra.4958 said:

@Offair.2563 said:All these silly suggestions to justify a broken spec. Never cease to amaze me.

Same! i never completely understand why people still crying about not able to counter the new build

Maybe spec is really hard to deal with since Anet killed close combat basicly with the condi scheme to hit health sponges on players as well....(maybe to sell us lots of specs with more resistance and more condi/boon spam on the next expantion lawl)

And probably since players dont want to put effort, every one want to be cheeeese against every one.

[cobracommander.5861]

Have you noticed while watching scourge streamers that they quite often have no one even targeted? It’s quite funny.

Anet has got to figure out a way to reduce the scalability of multiple scourge aoe spam. Plz.

[Aeolus.3615]

@cobracommander.5861 said:Have you noticed while watching scourge streamers that they quite often have no one even targeted? It’s quite funny.

Anet has got to figure out a way to reduce the scalability of multiple scourge aoe spam. Plz.

make hexes back...Port some conditions to hex efects

that will make less condi stackign and more players need to see where they will use skills rather than spam cause it will stack...

[babazhook.6805]

@cobracommander.5861 said:Have you noticed while watching scourge streamers that they quite often have no one even targeted? It’s quite funny.

Anet has got to figure out a way to reduce the scalability of multiple scourge aoe spam. Plz.

This one of the main reasons the system is breaking down. From the beginning the game was supposed to be one predicated on active defenses such as stealth, blocks and dodges. This "active gameplay' was to be the main means of defense against an enemy. This all changes with non targetted persistent AOE fields that not only have great range , but do as much damage as targetted attacks and are mobile with the user. Stealth does not work as the enemy does not need a target. Blocks do not work as they often single use and or do not last longer then that field. Dodges don't work as you dodge out of the field and into the field. This might still be manageable in a 1v1 with existing tools but becomes less so when there multiple AOE fields stacked moving with the group.

[Turk.5460]

@intox.6347 said:

@Turk.5460 said:The sheer amount of AoE pressure is what is over-tuned. It's not right that a Scourge can load up enough damaging conditions to kill someone in less than 2 or 3 seconds,

even though the scourge didn't even know the other person was there.

And the problem is to a lesser extent other AoE's that can be spammed, whether condi or power. Nobody needs a target anymore. Large battles were much more fun when it was less of the "Spam AoE, and the rest of you - heal or buff our AoE spammers so they can spam more AoE."

What ? I roam on all classes, different builds... and never was killed by scourge in 3 seconds ..... fastest takedowns on really glassy build and when i mess it... was maybe 20 sec. So with wich char you was taken down by scourge in 3 seconds ?

I hope that you dont talk about group play where you take dmg from 5-60 ppl ... :dizzy:Ofc if u stand in shades from 5 scourges with thief, you are dead. But we dont talk about situation like this, yop? i hope so...

What I meant by that was it only takes 2 or 3 seconds to apply enough conditions to kill most players, not necessarily have them tick you to 0 in that amount of time, however thats not unheard of, either. And that application is very spammable, more spammable than the amount of realistic condition clears most opponents have available.

[trueanimus.4085]

@zinkz.7045 said:How can you ruin something that is already trash?

This.. lol.. All the reapers got forced into scourge when they nerfed shroud =(

[mulzi.8273]

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:How can you ruin something that is already trash?

This.. lol.. All the reapers got forced into scourge when they nerfed shroud =(

That may play a part in it. But as human nature has shown, the less skillful always flock to the fotm and the easiest reward with lowest skill level. The real sad part is, that these folks actually think they are good and skillful when its the class mechanics that carry them.

No joke: i tried out scourge (being a power reaper at heart) after the last balance patch. I literally had my cat walk across my keyboard and my cat killed 3 people. There is alot of cheese in wvw with one-shot mesmers/thieves/eles/etc, but those take some skill to pull off, and have considerable cooldowns. With a scourge, You dont even have to target anyone. But maybe i'm wrong and scourge class doesn't carry folks. Maybe my cat really is better than some humans in wvw..

[Kovu.7560]

My cat could kill your cat.

[Kamara.4187]

@Ubi.4136 said:I mained a necro since launch. Scourge is the reason I have shelved my necro for wvw and am playing other classes. It's broken.(So is mirage evasion, death's judgement, holosmith, CoR, etc...this is just the scourge thread so staying on topic)

The problem is stacking traits requires no player effort. And, is a no target AoE on Scourge.Curses-adept: Terrifying Descent - When you fear a foe you inflict torment.Curses-master: Terror - Fear deals damage.Scourge grandmaster - Demonic Lore - Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn.Scourge isn't the only class where stacking traits is creating an imbalance, it's just the most noticeable at the moment.Those are just a bonus on the other conditions you can drop instantly with 0 effort.

I still think Meteor Shower is broken, it should not be able to hit the stairs on the inside of a wall, but now we have Oppressive Collapse (more of a troll skill) that doesn't even require LOS to hit objects/players inside towers. Changes are needed.

That was a no nonsense fair post /salute :)