Is LongBow dead?

[ilmi.5369]

Ok, discussion ended XDBecause Aragon in 1948 must be the template of the ranger class AT ALL. Ranger in GW2 totally cannot be seen as a bow ranger. It does not matter that this computer game 60 years later (and a bunch of other games before), as well as books showcase rangers with bow and/or animal companions. No, you must see and play your ranger as Aragorn. What if I say that the prototype of the ranger class is not Aragorn but Legolas, the Elven archer? D&D and any other role playing games that I know has an archer class (mostly elves, though).Any reference to literature or even real life (park ranger - come on) is kind of pointless. After all, it comes down to how you interprete your class and the GW2 ranger indeed offers a great variety in his weapon choice. But it's obvious that per design the core ranger is meant to be a "ranged" archer class sending in animal companion to do the dirty melee work. The in game role models are Eir & Rox, both wielding a bow. It's the only class in the game being able to wield two types of bows. How could it not legit to see them as a primary wepon?

[Vayne.8563]

@ilmi.5369 said:Ok, discussion ended XDBecause Aragon in 1948 must be the template of the ranger class AT ALL. Ranger in GW2 totally cannot be seen as a bow ranger. It does not matter that this computer game 60 years later (and a bunch of other games before), as well as books showcase rangers with bow and/or animal companions. No, you must see and play your ranger as Aragorn. What if I say that the prototype of the ranger class is not Aragorn but Legolas, the Elven archer? D&D and any other role playing games that I know has an archer class (mostly elves, though).Any reference to literature or even real life (park ranger - come on) is kind of pointless. After all, it comes down to how you interprete your class and the GW2 ranger indeed offers a great variety in his weapon choice. But it's obvious that per design the core ranger is meant to be a "ranged" archer class sending in animal companion to do the dirty melee work. The in game role models are Eir & Rox, both wielding a bow. It's the only class in the game being able to wield two types of bows. How could it not legit to see them as a primary wepon?

@ilmi.5369 said:Ok, discussion ended XDBecause Aragon in 1948 must be the template of the ranger class AT ALL. Ranger in GW2 totally cannot be seen as a bow ranger. It does not matter that this computer game 60 years later (and a bunch of other games before), as well as books showcase rangers with bow and/or animal companions. No, you must see and play your ranger as Aragorn. What if I say that the prototype of the ranger class is not Aragorn but Legolas, the Elven archer? D&D and any other role playing games that I know has an archer class (mostly elves, though).Any reference to literature or even real life (park ranger - come on) is kind of pointless. After all, it comes down to how you interprete your class and the GW2 ranger indeed offers a great variety in his weapon choice. But it's obvious that per design the core ranger is meant to be a "ranged" archer class sending in animal companion to do the dirty melee work. The in game role models are Eir & Rox, both wielding a bow. It's the only class in the game being able to wield two types of bows. How could it not legit to see them as a primary wepon?

Whether it's a legit primary weapon or not is not really relevant, when since launch it's not been used in end game content as a base weapon. The game has rules not just flavor. Generally speaking ranged combat does less damage than melee combat throughout the game. If you thin the primary weapon should be the lower damage weapon so be it. The point REMAINS, fantasy has plenty of evidence that bow is not necessarily the defacto weapon for rangers, which is what I was saying. It remains true.

Edit: Here's a bit more research for you, since you apparently want some. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_(character_class)

The wikipedia page on ranger (character class). It lasts martial weapons. It does NOT single out bow.

[ilmi.5369]

It totally does not matter what you call an evidence - it's not. It's just your interpretation of what could have been an inspiration. I wonder why this is so important to you. I mean, just have a look into the GW2 wiki and you have evidence about the idea of the class design:

"Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation. "

How more obvious does it have to be?

EDIT: on your first point: I'm not saying that you must not play the ranger with melee weaponry more effectively in certain game modes. In fact in Raids or Fractals you need to play as a melee if you want to be competitive. But bad balancing hardly helps to support your point of ranger not being an dedicated archer class. In WvW and PvP and Longbow becomes the weapon of choice, anyways.And on range damage in general: in certain game modes (mainly pvp) plenty of builds rely on range damage weapons to do insane burst: Rifle Warrior, Scourge, Power Scrapper, LB Power Soulbeast, Fresh Air Ele, Staff Ele, Double Pistol Thief, Rifle Deadeye. In fact staff ele dashes out the most DPS of all classes on range.

[Mogrey.3891]

@ilmi.5369 said:What if I say that the prototype of the ranger class is not Aragorn but Legolas, the Elven archer? D&D and any other role playing games that I know has an archer class (mostly elves, though).

the player habdbook said about the prototype of the class is Aragorn though. and it doesn't matter your weapon of choice just pointing out that ranger its not just a range class. you can see them as hunters-trappers beastmasters (in dnd and beyond) with a combination of melee/range and gw2 follows that path (thus some skills-traits)

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Vayne.8563 said:The wikipedia page on ranger (character class). It lasts martial weapons. It does NOT single out bow.Just few questions for you:

1. When you joined GW2, what class did you chose? Why did you chose that class? What was your expectation when you chosed that class, based on GW2 description? (remember we talk about vanila not HoT or PoF)
2. What do you think was the intention of Anet/GW2 with Ranger? Wasn't Ranger from GW2 that Hunter from the almost every story of any country, continent, nation who usual wear a range weapon (bow, spear etc ...) Our kings from the oldest time when they were going to hunt, what weapon did they use? Wasn't a bow? And their companion wasn't a dog ... this is the meaning of Ranger in GW2 ... you want a prove? Look here : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/ . Tell me what do you see? If Anet put a picture with Ranger+bow+pet , I think it is obvious that they had in mind since the beginning that this weapon is representative for THEIR RANGER! You understand? Every developer who made a game have their vision about classes. And when they said even in description "Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation." or "Rangers are flexible and durable—proficient with the bow, yet surgical with the sword. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance. As an adventurer profession, rangers wear medium armor." - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger , well I think you can't argue with them , right?! The meaning of Ranger in GW2 (said by them self too) is not Walker Texas Ranger or Lord of The Rings Ranger, but Archer! The same meaning like Hunter from World of Warcraft one of the best MMO ever, and are many other MMO where Ranger/Hunter/Archer mean a class with long range weapon, and in most cases that weapon is Bow!
3. I want to ask people on this forum, to say what class did they play from vanila GW2, why did they chose Ranger? I chosed Ranger because I want a class with Bow and Pet like I had in other MMO.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Mogrey.3891 said:

@ilmi.5369 said:What if I say that the prototype of the ranger class is not Aragorn but Legolas, the Elven archer? D&D and any other role playing games that I know has an archer class (mostly elves, though).

the player habdbook said about the prototype of the class is Aragorn though. and it doesn't matter your weapon of choice just pointing out that ranger its not just a range class. you can see them as hunters-trappers beastmasters (in dnd and beyond) with a combination of melee/range and gw2 follows that path (thus some skills-traits)

Take a look : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/ and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger ... can you explain why Ranger from Anet picture wearing a Bow and in GW2 Wiki description they said about "Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows" ?Thank you!Everything or anything you and other guys are saying about LoTR, Aragorn etc ... are pointless ... you can't say to Anet that "no guys, your Ranger is not what you thinking from the beginning, but is what me and other players like me say ... "

[Mogrey.3891]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Mogrey.3891 said:

@ilmi.5369 said:What if I say that the prototype of the ranger class is not Aragorn but Legolas, the Elven archer? D&D and any other role playing games that I know has an archer class (mostly elves, though).

the player habdbook said about the prototype of the class is Aragorn though. and it doesn't matter your weapon of choice just pointing out that ranger its not just a range class. you can see them as hunters-trappers beastmasters (in dnd and beyond) with a combination of melee/range and gw2 follows that path (thus some skills-traits)

Take a look :

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

... can you explain why Ranger from Anet picture wearing a Bow and in GW2 Wiki description they said about "Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows" ?Thank you!Everything or anything you and other guys are saying about LoTR, Aragorn etc ... are pointless ... you can't say to Anet that "no guys, your Ranger is not what you thinking from the beginning, but is what me and other players like me say ... "

and can wield more weapons than just bows. sorry but you actually fail to read what i wrote. being a hunter etc did i exclude bows from ranger weapons? i just said that rangers are not just that.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Mogrey.3891 said:and can wield more weapons than just bows. sorry but you actually fail to read what i wrote. being a hunter etc did i exclude bows from ranger weapons? i just said that rangers are not just that.

Ofc Ranger is not just that, but we talk here about meaning of Ranger and why Bow is or is not the main weapon. And I proved to you and other guys that Anet had in mind since the beginning that Ranger representative weapon is Bow. The fact Ranger is good with other weapons or many time better with other weapons than Bow, well this is another discussion. Also this post is about Longbow is dead or not for Fractals and PVE content, and in my opinion is not.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Long bow is pretty strong in PvP. It's the most common ranged weapon Soul beats tend to go for in WvW.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

For all ppl who just don't want to understand the meaning of Ranger/Hunter/Archer/Marksmanship in most known MMO, I'll give you these:TERA : http://tera.enmasse.com/game-guide/classes/archer - Archer - BowAION : http://gameguide.na.aiononline.com/aion/Classes?_ga=2.165176767.1261619435.1511897012-1959453336.1511897012#hd49087 - Scout>Ranger - BowRIFT : http://www.trionworlds.com/rift/en/game/classes/ - Rogue>Marksman or Ranger - BowWORLD OF WARCRAFT : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/classes/hunter - Hunter-BowLORD OF THE RINGS : https://www.lotro.com/en/explore/characters/elf#Hunter - Hunter-Bow .... even here they associate Hunter (or Ranger) with Bow!NEVERWINTER : http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9987143 - Hunter/Ranger - BowLINEAGE II : http://www.lineage2.com/en/game/classes/archer.php - Archer - BowARCHEAGE : https://archeage.gamepedia.com/Archery - Archery-BowBLACK DESERT ONLINE : http://blackdesert.wikia.com/wiki/Ranger - Ranger-BowGUILD WARS : https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger - Ranger-BowGUILD WARS 2 : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger - Ranger - Bow

So, all these games/developers decided that class connected to Ranger/Archer/Hunter/Marksman have Bow like main weapon, and you (well some of you) still want to tell us that is not true!In all these games I posted, first thought regarding a Ranger/Archer/Hunter/Marksman is he is wearing a bow!The fact Ranger/Archer/Hunter/Marksman can wear also another weapons, or other weapons sometimes are better than bow it is another discussion!So please stop saying that the meaning of Ranger in GW2 is not Bow

[Mogrey.3891]

for some reasons you fail to read what i wrote. even aragorn was with a combination of bow/sword. never said that bow is not one of his weapon. just mention that ranger is not just that. ranger are survivalist hunters good with traps with a faithfull companion (aka beastmaster) and because we are talking about a fantasy world users of nature magic. and you failed to read that in 2nd edition of dnd robin hood was listed as well as orion and some other goddess i think don't recall all listed names.

you are trying so hard to prove something that i never really argued with. i can't see a hunter hunting with just melee weapons. and pretty much rangers are good with martial weapons and bows are in that category too. (well not with all if you count that hammers suppose to be in that category too).

and we are off topic :P to answer the question bows are not dead. especially in wvw a power ranger is goot to be with a bow.

[Fernling.1729]

From the Guild Wars 1 wiki:

"Rangers are unique in their ability to succeed with the help of, or even in spite of, their environment. Nature rituals allow them to manipulate the environment to hinder their enemies, or borrow the very power of creation to heal and aid their allies. They favor long-range combat, the bow being their weapon of choice, and can be especially effective from elevated locations such as bridges and cliffs. They are the only profession with the ability to charm animals, which then accompany them on their travels and assist them in battle, gaining experience and levels over time. Rangers are also blessed with survival skills that help keep them alive by causing regeneration of health."

It wasn't until later in Guild Wars 1's life that something other than a bow was the weapon of choice for the ranger and those dagger builds were not intended by Anet. Heck, almost every skill was based around using the bow.

[JanHermann.2436]

@"Mister Asdasd.6194" said:Core Ranger sucks, Power builds suck sans dragonhunter,Longbow on ranger sucks so combine it all and you got the worst class in the game. Core Ranger was never good and when i see core Rangers with longbow in fractals i just cringe and know i will have to carry their weight while they pew pew longbow 2 and push enemies out of my damage area with 4 doing nothing else to contribute. Ranger has the most flexible elite specialisations, he can go either healer/support or dps/condi as soulbeast. THere is no reason for core ranger to exists

You cringe, OK...How old are you?

What you fail to comprehend is that in t4 fractals, skill and eye/hand coordination is more important than 5% more DPS your "optimized" classes bring.At least in unorganized setting, in a PUG.By staying out of reach of the debilitating effects that land on "stacked" groups you add enormous surivability potential, can revive the "fallen" and you get your own might stacks anyway.

How many 4-man wipes have I witnessed in these years? Very many.How many times have I been wiped? Not many.

I did most of the more difficult fractal achievements SOLO, with longbow and greatsword, so I don't understand your point.Doing nothing else to contribute? Oh man - what arrogance.

[Mister Asdasd.6194]

@JanHermann.2436 said:

@"Mister Asdasd.6194" said:Core Ranger sucks, Power builds suck sans dragonhunter,Longbow on ranger sucks so combine it all and you got the worst class in the game. Core Ranger was never good and when i see core Rangers with longbow in fractals i just cringe and know i will have to carry their weight while they pew pew longbow 2 and push enemies out of my damage area with 4 doing nothing else to contribute. Ranger has the most flexible elite specialisations, he can go either healer/support or dps/condi as soulbeast. THere is no reason for core ranger to exists

You cringe, OK...How old are you?

What you fail to comprehend is that in t4 fractals, skill and eye/hand coordination is more important than 5% more DPS your "optimized" classes bring.At least in unorganized setting, in a PUG.By staying out of reach of the debilitating effects that land on "stacked" groups you add enormous surivability potential, can revive the "fallen" and you get your own might stacks anyway.

How many 4-man wipes have I witnessed in these years? Very many.How many times have I been wiped? Not many.

I did most of the more difficult fractal achievements SOLO, with longbow and greatsword, so I don't understand your point.Doing nothing else to contribute? Oh man - what arrogance.

and stay away from all the might and healing the group receives+ allacrity quickness etc + having to force the druid to chase you around the map to heal 1 peron while 3 other potentially die.

[Ryou.2398]

Why are people wanting long bow to be a thing again? It is the most boring weapon set I have used in the entire game I recall bow being to op before and people wanted more diversity, should it be an option and more in line with others? Sure but its still boring as hek to use. Also the aragorn argument fails when you the debate was about rangers not having bows, in the books he actually did use a bow suggested for a hunting mostly but he is better with a 2 handed sword, but 2 handed sword also has reach.

http://www.councilofelrond.com/weapon/the-weaponry-and-armour-of-aragorn-and-strider-film-version/

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Ryou.2398 said:Why are people wanting long bow to be a thing again? It is the most boring weapon set I have used in the entire game I recall bow being to op before and people wanted more diversity, should it be an option and more in line with others? Sure but its still boring as hek to use.

because like I said before, this is the meaning of Ranger/Hunter/Archer ... if you want to play another main weapon, you should get another class.Playing with bow is not boring at all, maybe in PVE , but in PvP you need a lot of skills to beat other opponent who all the time will be near you for melee damage (Spellbraker, DH, Revenant, Scourge, etc ...)

[Belishine.7493]

my 2 cents are longbow is still very good in pve but everyone looks at you like your crazzy but its still a very good wepon to use for us rangers so when i see peps complaning that im useing a longbow i just stick with the longbow but in state wise it is a dps loss compared to a sword axe combo but its like 1 or 2k dps loss on long fights so that is only why its frowed on when you use it.

[Ephemiel.5694]

Kinda want people to know that Aragorn, as a Ranger of the North, knew how to use Swords, Bows and Spears, so saying "but Aragorn" is no excuse.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Krispera.5087 said:Nah, not good for Instances (Fractals/Raids), but very good for open PvE, PvP and WvW.

This.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Ryou.2398 said:Why are people wanting long bow to be a thing again? It is the most boring weapon set I have used in the entire game I recall bow being to op before and people wanted more diversity, should it be an option and more in line with others? Sure but its still boring as hek to use.

because like I said before, this is the meaning of Ranger/Hunter/Archer ... if you want to play another main weapon, you should get another class.Playing with bow is not boring at all, maybe in PVE , but in PvP you need a lot of skills to beat other opponent who all the time will be near you for melee damage (Spellbraker, DH, Revenant, Scourge, etc ...)

The point of: If you dont like biw play another class is also pretty darn wrong.Many just like the nature theme in ranger and the beastmaster aspect and not the pewpew playstyle. I myself are not a fan of bow gameplay. Not because it does not feel good or anything, just because its boring as hell and in full berserker its a one press button win condition. For dungeons, fractals and raids it has not much use eitherway and with SB you have to hug your target for optimal dmg.If ppl choose ranger for bow gameplay its fine and legitimate. If ppl choose it for hefty melee combat or beastmastery also fine. But telling others they have the wrong class when they do not like bows is plain out ignorant to the rest of the profession.

[Plautze.6290]

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:As long as I see bearbows flooding the zones until the dawn of time, no, the longbow is not dead. All hail the mighty bearbow which doesn't know weapons swap using bow point blank on 1 micrometer distance to enemy and using the bear in all its inefficiency.

You describe my nemesis as Warrior player... me trying to unload 100B and that doofus ranger uses point blank shot on my target. It happens.Every.Friggin.Day!

[Decado.9304]

@"Ephemiel.5694" said:Kinda want people to know that Aragorn, as a Ranger of the North, knew how to use Swords, Bows and Spears, so saying "but Aragorn" is no excuse.

Totally :)

To be honest, the only sword I remember Aragorn having wielded was Narsil, after it was reforged. Prior to that he had it for 67? years broken and unusable however no other real mention of his weapon choices during this time protecting the north were ever stated that i can find/remember.

Also going that he spent all his time in the wild and needed to eat and protect himself, I'd assume he was at least proficient with a bow given that he was brought up in Rivendell with elves, who kinda specialised in bows, and who would have been his teacher in all things martial.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Ryou.2398 said:Why are people wanting long bow to be a thing again? It is the most boring weapon set I have used in the entire game I recall bow being to op before and people wanted more diversity, should it be an option and more in line with others? Sure but its still boring as hek to use.

because like I said before, this is the meaning of Ranger/Hunter/Archer ... if you want to play another main weapon, you should get another class.Playing with bow is not boring at all, maybe in PVE , but in PvP you need a lot of skills to beat other opponent who all the time will be near you for melee damage (Spellbraker, DH, Revenant, Scourge, etc ...)

The point of: If you dont like biw play another class is also pretty darn wrong.Many just like the nature theme in ranger and the beastmaster aspect and not the pewpew playstyle. I myself are not a fan of bow gameplay. Not because it does not feel good or anything, just because its boring as hell and in full berserker its a one press button win condition. For dungeons, fractals and raids it has not much use eitherway and with SB you have to hug your target for optimal dmg.If ppl choose ranger for bow gameplay its fine and legitimate. If ppl choose it for hefty melee combat or beastmastery also fine. But telling others they have the wrong class when they do not like bows is plain out ignorant to the rest of the profession.

Ofc it is fine for anyone to choose Ranger for hefty melee combat or something else. I didn't say it is wrong. Also it is your own business if you want to play ranger because of nature theme, but in the same time you want to play like warrior style. I don't have nothing with ppl who want to play Ranger because of the theme, look etc or because they like how GS, Sword (melee weapons ) combat fighting it is. But I don't like ppl who want to change Ranger into Warrior or Guardian or maybe Mesmer, just because they consider that Longbow (the most representative weapon of ranger/hunter/archer) is boring. This game like all the games (MMO) has a lots of classes and specialisation so ppl can choose regarding playstyle, look, themes etc ... we have plenty of choices ... But it is wrong to ask to change something representative for a class, not because it is not fit that thing, but only because you like something else ... I don't think anyone who choose from the beginning of this Game a class, he didn't choose for how the class was at that time ... I don't think you or anyone , choose ranger because you or them thought that in the future GS will be his main damage weapon ... This is what I am talking. I don't push or ask ppl to play like I do, but also I don't want ppl who have other main class to ask Anet to change the Ranger ... Anet already did a lots of nerf and bad changes to Ranger and many are done just because other classes (players) asked for ... Look what they have done with Druid ... And don't get me wrong, I play Soulbeast, somehow I want that Druid to be nerfed, but not totally, not so bad and in the same time other classes like Mesmer, Firebrand , they almost wasn't touched.I hope you understand my POV

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Ryou.2398 said:Why are people wanting long bow to be a thing again? It is the most boring weapon set I have used in the entire game I recall bow being to op before and people wanted more diversity, should it be an option and more in line with others? Sure but its still boring as hek to use.

because like I said before, this is the meaning of Ranger/Hunter/Archer ... if you want to play another main weapon, you should get another class.Playing with bow is not boring at all, maybe in PVE , but in PvP you need a lot of skills to beat other opponent who all the time will be near you for melee damage (Spellbraker, DH, Revenant, Scourge, etc ...)

The point of: If you dont like biw play another class is also pretty darn wrong.Many just like the nature theme in ranger and the beastmaster aspect and not the pewpew playstyle. I myself are not a fan of bow gameplay. Not because it does not feel good or anything, just because its boring as hell and in full berserker its a one press button win condition. For dungeons, fractals and raids it has not much use eitherway and with SB you have to hug your target for optimal dmg.If ppl choose ranger for bow gameplay its fine and legitimate. If ppl choose it for hefty melee combat or beastmastery also fine. But telling others they have the wrong class when they do not like bows is plain out ignorant to the rest of the profession.

Ofc it is fine for anyone to choose Ranger for hefty melee combat or something else. I didn't say it is wrong. Also it is your own business if you want to play ranger because of nature theme, but in the same time you want to play like warrior style. I don't have nothing with ppl who want to play Ranger because of the theme, look etc or because they like how GS, Sword (melee weapons ) combat fighting it is. But I don't like ppl who want to change Ranger into Warrior or Guardian or maybe Mesmer, just because they consider that Longbow (the most representative weapon of ranger/hunter/archer) is boring. This game like all the games (MMO) has a lots of classes and specialisation so ppl can choose regarding playstyle, look, themes etc ... we have plenty of choices ... But it is wrong to ask to change something representative for a class, not because it is not fit that thing, but only because you like something else ... I don't think anyone who choose from the beginning of this Game a class, he didn't choose for how the class was at that time ... I don't think you or anyone , choose ranger because you or them thought that in the future GS will be his main damage weapon ... This is what I am talking. I don't push or ask ppl to play like I do, but also I don't want ppl who have other main class to ask Anet to change the Ranger ... Anet already did a lots of nerf and bad changes to Ranger and many are done just because other classes (players) asked for ... Look what they have done with Druid ... And don't get me wrong, I play Soulbeast, somehow I want that Druid to be nerfed, but not totally, not so bad and in the same time other classes like Mesmer, Firebrand , they almost wasn't touched.I hope you understand my POV

I understand and i agree. I only disagreed with the "then play another class" argument, which i already pointed out.For me ranger defines a special place in all profession due to his high flexibility to change from range to close range in a moment.Personally i actually think LB is one of the best designed weapons so far, only the AA mechanic is not my cup of tea and i wish barrage could be used while moving (but i understand why it is this way it is).And i understand your point that many ppl demand buffs and changes that would rip some characteristics from weapons and playstyles rangers have and that you dont like that, me neither.Every ranger weapon has its role and it shouldnt be changed. Only improved in some ways so it is better usable in other content.I.e change the LB AA to give it more use in mid range

[Kraitan.8476]

Even if the longbow is dead (which it isn't), it would still be more usefull than dagger Lol