[sPvP/WvW] Can we please get a rework for Heaven's Palm??

[Saiyan.1704]

I can't imagine Heaven's Palm being more useful in WvW than sPvP.. so i included that in the title...

The elite is so bad it's difficult to know where to start....

• You are vulnerable while in the air, receiving damage while susceptible to CC during that 1.25s duration
• The range of 600 radius means you're not surprising anyone especially with the casting time involved... it's almost always used in melee range (see below)
• The knockdown hit radius is only 240, so there's a high chance of falling short of the 600 radius range hitting no one because there's no range measurement (like Scepter#2)
   

The only thing Good about the elite is the 20s cast time... which leads to believe that it's meant as a gap closer while also supplying CC throughout combat... except the CC never lands due to the knockback proc radius and while also being so darn vulnerable during its channel. If Renewed Focus offers a 3s invulnerability downtime during its channel to restore Virtues.. then Heaven's Palm should... at the very least... offer 1.25 seconds worth of evade/invulnerability. If that's not an option then its hit radius should be improved OR its range should be increased.

Let's compare the elite to another non-meta elite that's better than Heaven's Palm....  Dragon Hunter's Dragon's Maw elite. Traited correctly (trap runes) it gives Stealth + Superspeed when casted. This alone is enough to get away from battle for a few seconds (while kiting) thanks to Superspeed. Even if you don't gain value with its CC potential, at least you can run away if needed. You don't have that option with Heaven's Palm. It is a hit-or-miss that does not offer ANY self-sustain opportunities at all especially during channeling time.

The only other elite to compare Heaven's Palm to is Rev's Chaotic Release elite that gives a knockback proc of 450 radius, almost doubling that of Heaven's Palm....and with a cast time of 3/4s. The odds of hitting a single person with it is so much greater than Heaven's Palm.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[Kuya.6495]

I agree with all your suggestions. 

 

Another thing that could be useful is having heaven's palm teleport be instant and just have the actual cc/damage happen after the cast time is over. And also, let you use the teleport on heaven's palm even if the target is out of range. 

 

Or

 

They could have heaven's palm work like the one the enforcer in KO uses. Remove the animation lock on your character and just have the telegraph be a giant palm over your target. Someone can still see that it's casting and prepare for it but you're no longer animation locked and can chain cc the enemy in anticipation of the elite going off. I would also have the teleport be instant cast and just have the palm only trigger if an enemy is in range (raise it to 300 at least though).

 

Anyway, that's enough Adderall for me today 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Kuya.6495

[otto.5684]

It is terrible in all game modes. The only reason it is used in pve is cuz no other elite does damage or CC while playing WB.

[Saiyan.1704]

14 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

It is terrible in all game modes. The only reason it is used in pve is cuz no other elite does damage or CC while playing WB.

Then idk why there are not any threads about wanting Heaven's Palm changed. I just assumed people liked it in PvE so Anet said, "yeah it fine fam".

 

Even in WvW players prefer a different elite. It would be a different story if the elite did excellent in 1v1 engagements but it doesn't even do that very well at all...Rev's Harold elite is iconic. It's a little sad WB's elite isn't.

[otto.5684]

15 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Then idk why there are not any threads about wanting Heaven's Palm changed. I just assumed people liked it in PvE so Anet said, "yeah it fine fam".

 

Even in WvW players prefer a different elite. It would be a different story if the elite did excellent in 1v1 engagements but it doesn't even do that very well at all...Rev's Harold elite is iconic. It's a little sad WB's elite isn't.

There were quite a few around beta and early EoD release. I think people gave up. I gave up too. Honestly, I have major issues with WB design as a whole. It was a copy paste of S/S herald. Sword 4 and 5 are the same, but rev is better. Elite also is the same but rev is better. All this was noted during beta.

 

When people complained about how OP was WB in pvp I used to laugh. It is a cheap imitation of something way better designed. It was carried by modifiers. When it was brought down to earth in pvp, it just… died. Will see what next patch brings. Though, I am not optimistic. DH can end up in a good place in PvE. WB needs major rework.

Edited October 23, 2022 by otto.5684

[Sonork.2916]

Pretty sure it was designed to be worthless, so really Heavens Palm is working perfectly, no changes needed.

[Tryfan.1457]

It's probably the worst elite in the entire game.

 

[Kodama.6453]

On 10/30/2022 at 7:48 AM, Tryfan.1457 said:

It's probably the worst elite in the entire game.

 

WvW sneak gyro would like to have a word.

[Falseprophet.1502]

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

WvW sneak gyro would like to have a word.

Oh, yeah, that one elite that has been meta for years in WvW? You're comparing it to an elite that hasn't seen any use outside very niche PvE encounters (note: Willbender is one of the least played Elite Specializations in end-game PvE)? They only recently nerfed (less than a month ago) Sneak Gyro because it had a MONOPOLY in WvW.

 

Do you just post to post to bloat your 3k+ posts on a forum? Can you check your cognitive biases at the door?

[poop.4183]

It should do what the name implies : send target to heaven .

Problem is the other elites skills for guardian are very usefull , and this one can't compete with the others.

Make it push other target around your main target out and summon a circle wall which can't be run trough and destroy projectile , so it's an isolate target .

Or make a pulsing healing/damage area under your traget 

Or send your target flying away at 5000 , should be funny , .. but indeed not four your target , forget about that last one ..

 

[Saiyan.1704]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:00 PM, poop.4183 said:

It should do what the name implies : send target to heaven .

Problem is the other elites skills for guardian are very usefull , and this one can't compete with the others.

Make it push other target around your main target out and summon a circle wall which can't be run trough and destroy projectile , so it's an isolate target .

Or make a pulsing healing/damage area under your traget 

Or send your target flying away at 5000 , should be funny , .. but indeed not four your target , forget about that last one ..

 

Our other elite specs doesn't give you the opportunity to be vulnerable during it's channeling time. The chances of us dying while using this elite is too darn high (meme reference). As I said before, if it had a 1200 range instead of 600, then maybe it would be a snipe-worthy CC option instead of the defensive Renewed Focus option.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[quaniesan.8497]

They ain't gona give you an evasion frame, knowing Anet.  The most realistic bet is they, in their mercy, will throw in 2 second of  one stack of Stability before shadowstep occurs.  If all 8 planets align ,  they might  just also throw in  2 second of Aegis.