My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Each game mode has separate time limits for getting the rewards WvW is 22 weeks at the fastest Pvp is approximately 26 weeks at the fastest, and Raids w/ CM strikes is 5 weeks. The difference here is Raids w/strikes takes a lot more effort to acquire, having to coordinate to get enough people to do the content, having to prepare and learn the mechanics of each encounter, having to gear up for the encounters, learn roles and rotations etc.

In wvw and pvp you don’t have to do any of those things and you can get the Legendary by running purely solo and doing things in Rare gear and don’t have to fight a single person in WvW in Pvp you can literally AFK and get the rewards and lose every match 

Edited October 31, 2022 by BlaqueFyre.5678
Formatting clarity

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:11 PM, Moriartiy.6753 said:

After watching todays stream about the balance stream i want to share my personal biggest pain point with the wvw pain point which is totally unrelated to the games balance. 

This topic is probably a beat on a dead horse but I feel frustrated about so here goes,

 

having played a total of six hours today i earned about 600 Pips which earned my the gold Chest 140 Skrimish Claim tickets. You guys probably now were im going with this and kudos who everyone who has done it! 

I want to get the Legendary WvW Armor for which I need a total of 7880 Skirmish Claim tickets, the maximum amount I can get per week is 365 as long as i make it to the final chest.

Getting 7880 Skirmish Claim tickets takes a minimum time of 22 weeks making it to the final chest, to get the final chest I need 1450 Pips in 7 days. 

 

If I take todays result into account (which included the committed bonus Pip) my guess is that I will need to play round about 15-18 Hours of WvW per week for the next 22 Weeks If i want the Armor as fast as possible.

I know there are ways to improve one's tick by tagging up or getting to a higher level (which also takes forever) and I get that the mode is build for longevity but if we take a look at the Raid Armor in Similarity, I could get all three sets heavy, medium and light Armor in less weeks and probably less time played per week assuming I wont need 15 hours to full clear Wing 1-7 while I also getting way more rewards in terms gold, ascended items and the option to buy ascended gear for magnetic shards an option I don't have in WvW since every Skirmish ticket spend delays the Legendary Armor!

 

I get that the armor is gained more passively without a "collection" and you have to spend less other resources, also get that its a reward for those committed to the mode and I actually like the mode and will most likely play WvW after I got the Armor but this timegate in line with ascended gear using the same feels horrible and i wish there would be made a small change of either more pips baseline, more skirmish tracks you could earn in total per week or having the ascended gear using another currency until a proper solution for WvW rewards is found. 

 

I came to WvW for the Gift Of Battle. I joined a WvW guild, Got in coms and had a really fun time. And WvW is now my primary game mode. I will say that our server has a lot of active tags though. I then also focused on the legendary armor. I did not find it annoying to farm the tickets at all. I was having a freaking blast! Just enjoy the game mode and it will come. I now have more tickets than i know what to do with.

[Zikory.6871]

42 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I learned raids and instanced encounters in other games. I've seen them on this game. I'm done with that noise and the people there for the most part. I loved everything about the last expansion until it was clear I'd have to grind with those people in the last meta event and would have to grind out Strikes for a bit. Some people have had their fill of that stuff and it's hard to even think about going back and trying to get through it, even for Legendary convenience. 

Ascended is still good enough and templates make that easier. I don't mind at all taking longer to make Legendary pieces along the way if I can do what I enjoy doing and not have to put up with the nonsense. 

I mean, OPs complaint is that it takes to long to get Leg armor in WvW. WvW leg armor is a awful grind for new accounts. Like Bronze or low rank. I was already 1500+ when leg armor came out, still passively took me a few years. 

If getting leg gear is the final goal. 6 weeks vs 22 weeks. Just crazy to me people would pick the 22 week option. I may be wrong but isn't is only 30 weeks for all 3 raid sets? Vs 66 weeks for WvW. Not to mention the 7 weeks for each ring and 8 weeks for the back? Seems like smart people would use raids for Armor and WvW for Rings/back to do it all in 30 weeks or whatever. 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

3 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

I mean, OPs complaint is that it takes to long to get Leg armor in WvW. WvW leg armor is a awful grind for new accounts. Like Bronze or low rank. I was already 1500+ when leg armor came out, still passively took me a few years. 

If getting leg gear is the final goal. 6 weeks vs 22 weeks. Just crazy to me people would pick the 22 week option. I may be wrong but isn't is only 30 weeks for all 3 raid sets? Vs 66 weeks for WvW. Not to mention the 7 weeks for each ring and 8 weeks for the back? Seems like smart people would use raids for Armor and WvW for Rings/back to do it all in 30 weeks or whatever. 

 These acquisition times are due to the amount of effort needed to acquire, Raids/CM Strikes take a large amount of effort and preparation to acquire than WvW/PvP legendary armors. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[Zikory.6871]

19 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

 These acquisition times are due to the amount of effort needed to acquire, Raids/CM Strikes take a large amount of effort and preparation to acquire than WvW/PvP legendary armors. 

Not sure what this has to do with my comment but there is a huge raid training community. Iirc they made a post recently about getting a bunch of people leg sets. 

 

People going for WvW leg because it's the easiest. 

[Xenesis.6389]

If they're going to lower time to acquire to something like 6 weeks to appease the casual flybynight crowd, then they better be sure to compensate those that already played 3x the time to acquire it. I'm still salty they lowered the sublime armor down to 500 ranks from 1200-2k right as I hit the 1200 mark on my alt account and already did it on my main, there was no reason to do that for the wvw exclusive cosmetic set.

They can balance the ticket load in skirmish track, I don't think it should have ever been backload anyways.

They can add more pips in between ranks, everyone wins with that.

They can hand out more ranks with wxp boost weeks, they should be running this once a month anyways.

But you mess with 22 week time gate and I expect compensation for my time.

 

On 10/28/2022 at 9:11 PM, Moriartiy.6753 said:

if we take a look at the Raid Armor in Similarity, I could get all three sets heavy, medium and light Armor in less weeks and probably less time played per week assuming I wont need 15 hours to full clear Wing 1-7 while I also getting way more rewards in terms gold, ascended items and the option to buy ascended gear for magnetic shards an option I don't have in WvW since every Skirmish ticket spend delays the Legendary Armor!

So why aren't you going after the raid legendaries instead then if it's so much more rewarding with a faster time to acquire? Also buying the wvw ascended gear is the precursors for wvw legendaries, there's nothing wasted there.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

10 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Not sure what this has to do with my comment but there is a huge raid training community. Iirc they made a post recently about getting a bunch of people leg sets. 

 

People going for WvW leg because it's the easiest. 

I was just stating why the there was a large difference in acquisition times, and that it’s not only just time for one of the methods some players wont put in the effort to do the things to acquire the faster method. 
 

Just because a community is making it accessible to people doesn’t mean the effort is less it just makes organizing it easier, you can’t just Essentially afk you have to prepare gear and food and learn every mechanic and complete the content repeatedly WvW and Pvp you just run around solo and do small things like capture camps and sentries and you can get full participation at anytime and essentially afk till the timer starts to degrade and pvp you can lose every match and still acquire the legendary set. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, I don't think the 6 weeks comparison is fair because do you think the typical player would get raid armor it in 6 weeks? There's also some collections and stuff too. Granted the problem with the WvW one is that there is no way to speed things up through optimal play.

Legendary armor aside, I think we should talk about the atrocious state of the ascended stuff in WvW-- you need a year's worth of mark shards for a single set of ascended armor; ironically making it worse than legendary.

At the very least, I think there could be better progression for players in WvW via ascended gear first.  Not everyone cares about legendary everything.

1 hour ago, Zikory.6871 said:

I mean, OPs complaint is that it takes to long to get Leg armor in WvW. WvW leg armor is a awful grind for new accounts. Like Bronze or low rank. I was already 1500+ when leg armor came out, still passively took me a few years. 

WvW rank has always been an issue because it's a terrible system and the reason why reward tracks/skirmish tracks were made-- those 2 greens per level weren't helping.  Some people's playing styles don't generate too much wxp. It also doesn't help when we see thousands of points that don't do anything.

It's basically a system designed that pretty much just cuts off at gold.

Edited October 31, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

6 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, I don't think the 6 weeks comparison is fair because do you think the typical player would get raid armor it in 6 weeks? There's also some collections and stuff too. Granted the problem with the WvW one is that there is no way to speed things up through optimal play.

Legendary armor aside, I think we should talk about the atrocious state of the ascended stuff in WvW-- you need a year's worth of mark shards for a single set of ascended armor; ironically making it worse than legendary.

At the very least, I think there could be better progression for players in WvW via ascended gear first.  Not everyone cares about legendary everything.

WvW rank has always been an issue because it's a terrible system and the reason why reward tracks/skirmish tracks were made-- those 2 greens per level weren't helping.  Some people's playing styles don't generate too much wxp. It also doesn't help when we see thousands of points that don't do anything.

It's basically a system designed that pretty much just cuts off at gold.

For WvW you also get materials and ascended materials which can be used to craft the marks to speed things up you don’t have to wait to get the currency which is still contained in WvW 

[Zikory.6871]

25 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

I was just stating why the there was a large difference in acquisition times, and that it’s not only just time for one of the methods some players wont put in the effort to do the things to acquire the faster method. 
 

Just because a community is making it accessible to people doesn’t mean the effort is less it just makes organizing it easier, you can’t just Essentially afk you have to prepare gear and food and learn every mechanic and complete the content repeatedly WvW and Pvp you just run around solo and do small things like capture camps and sentries and you can get full participation at anytime and essentially afk till the timer starts to degrade and pvp you can lose every match and still acquire the legendary set. 

I'm just confused as to why you quoted my comment. I'm high enough rank that none of this really matters to me. Lock everything behind rank 10k for all I care. To each their own but I just don't understand the point, seems like more effort then just learning raids. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, I don't think the 6 weeks comparison is fair because do you think the typical player would get raid armor it in 6 weeks? There's also some collections and stuff too. Granted the problem with the WvW one is that there is no way to speed things up through optimal play.

WvW rank has always been an issue because it's a terrible system. Some people's playing styles don't generate too much wxp.

I doubt most people even get the WvW leg sets in the 22 weeks. I passively made mine and it took well over 22 weeks to get the mats to actually craft it. 

My opinion has always been expedite players to Sliver Rank 620. Gives them half the masteries and they get to +3 pips faster. But then you get all the sad posts about veteran compensation. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

For WvW you also get materials and ascended materials which can be used to craft the marks to speed things up you don’t have to wait to get the currency which is still contained in WvW 

Yea but almost all content gives you materials (and often more than WvW) so that is not too special.

For the most part I just crafted the Sublime because it didn't require marks.

And for just ascended, normal crafting is cheaper because of the Memories of Battle cost. Though yes the wvw one is a precursor.

Edited October 31, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

1 minute ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea but almost all content gives you materials (and often more than WvW) so that is not too special.

For the most part I just crafted the Sublime because it didn't require marks.

And for just ascended, normal crafting is cheaper because of the Memories of Battle cost. Though yes the wvw one is a precursor.

WvW gives more crafting materials than PvP on top of taking less time, Since WvW armor can be solely acquired faster than you year long complaint that’s only if the player acquires from reward track when the game mode provides a faster avenue. PvE Legendaries don’t require the Marks since they require collections so that is moot to compare materials access there.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

9 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

I'm just confused as to why you quoted my comment. I'm high enough rank that none of this really matters to me. Lock everything behind rank 10k for all I care. To each their own but I just don't understand the point, seems like more effort then just learning raids. 
 

Time spent doesn’t equate to effort, raids require effort to learn the mechanics, effort to coordinate with others to do the content(can’t do it solo), effort to gear your character, effort to learn class/build rotations, and the effort to clear the content.

 

WvW just takes time and smacking a few sentries every so often and can be done in Masterwork/Rare gear

[Zikory.6871]

1 minute ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Time spent doesn’t equate to effort, raids require effort to learn the mechanics, effort to coordinate with others to do the content(can’t do it solo), effort to gear your character, effort to learn class/build rotations, and the effort to clear the content.

 

WvW just takes time and smacking a few sentries every so often and can be done in Masterwork/Rare gear

I feel like you don't read well. OP is complaining about the time it take to get tickets. If time is the deciding factor, tf are you talking about. 

 

1.5 years is for 3 sets, 2 rings and the back. Might as well semi afk those too. 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

1 minute ago, Zikory.6871 said:

I feel like you don't read well. OP is complaining about the time it take to get tickets. If time is the deciding factor, tf are you talking about. 

 

1.5 years is for 3 sets, 2 rings and the back. Might as well semi afk those too. 

Apparently you don’t read well, the reason the time to acquire tickets aka Legendary Armor per the OP is because WvW takes less effort than Raids. That’s why the amount of effort required matters you can essentially afk for 22 weeks and get WvW legendary armor, you can’t do that for Raid Legendary Armor

[Zikory.6871]

1 minute ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Apparently you don’t read well, the reason the time to acquire tickets aka Legendary Armor per the OP is because WvW takes less effort than Raids. That’s why the amount of effort required matters you can essentially afk for 22 weeks and get WvW legendary armor, you can’t do that for Raid Legendary Armor

I'm not sure what part of any of my posts makes you think I'm not aware of this fact. Half my posts are mocking people for complain about the time...

I have my sets and 20k tickets because I actually play WvW. Frankly, WvW Legendary was to easy to get. Should be 22 weeks plus achievements, throw a stack of each emblem in there too. And put the 2k rank requirement back. 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Just now, Zikory.6871 said:

I'm not sure what part of any of my posts makes you think I'm not aware of this fact. Half my posts are mocking people for complain about the time...

I have my sets and 20k tickets because I actually play WvW. Frankly, WvW Legendary was to easy to get. Should be 22 weeks plus achievements, throw a stack of each emblem in there too. And put the 2k rank requirement back. 

Again your original post I replied to you said you don’t understand why people don’t go for the faster method and it comes down to effort, some people want an easy method that doesn’t involve effort. I was explaining why they don’t go for the fast option, that was all, they don’t want to put in the effort so they put in the time.
 

You also have people like the OP that don’t want to put time or effort in and will complain no matter what. 

[Zikory.6871]

4 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again your original post I replied to you said you don’t understand why people don’t go for the faster method and it comes down to effort, some people want an easy method that doesn’t involve effort. I was explaining why they don’t go for the fast option, that was all, they don’t want to put in the effort so they put in the time.
 

You also have people like the OP that don’t want to put time or effort in and will complain no matter what. 

Ah you think I'm being serious and care what others do. I just can't use the words I'd describe them with here🙃

[Justine.6351]

24 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Ah you think I'm being serious and care what others do. I just can't use the words I'd describe them with here🙃

He misread your post as agreeing with the op. I had to reread it too because it read funny. It just so happens I am smarter than both of you.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

1 minute ago, Justine.6351 said:

He misread your post as agreeing with the op. I had to reread it too because it read funny. It just so happens I am smarter than both of you.

Can confirm

[Morden Kain.3489]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

They can balance the ticket load in skirmish track

This.  Instead of raising the tickets acquired to be more, ANet should create a reward track specific for it.  Have it available for 3 weeks every 3 to 6 months (or something), and after WxP level 2500 it is unlocked permanently.  Can run the heck outta the track to get the tickets needed. 

Seriously, the Gift of Battle you used to buy for a few Commendations, now it is a track all on its own.  At least this way, for those that do not need them, you no longer get them.  Those wanting the tickets faster can spin up the track every few months.  I believe this would solve everyone's problem with the tickets 😃.

EDIT: For those not really on board with the idea of it being a skirmish track, ANet can make the XP requirements double what the current tracks are.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Morden Kain.3489

[Zikory.6871]

1 hour ago, Justine.6351 said:

He misread your post as agreeing with the op. I had to reread it too because it read funny. It just so happens I am smarter than both of you.

Questionable but a pretty low bar. 

 

3 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

If getting leg gear is the final goal. 6 weeks vs 22 weeks. Just crazy to me people would pick the 22 week option

Comment is pretty clear. @BlaqueFyre.5678 just repeating people are lazy and want the best rewards for doing nothing. 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

9 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Questionable but a pretty low bar. 

 

Comment is pretty clear. @BlaqueFyre.5678 just repeating people are lazy and want the best rewards for doing nothing. 

Pretty clear you were confused about what you said and couldn’t understand why people didn’t go after the faster method…🤣

Edited October 31, 2022 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[Gehenna.3625]

On 10/29/2022 at 5:48 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Which, btw, is the main point against these kind of threads (Jitters): If a player's main bottleneck for WvW armor is tickets and not gold, they are not playing enough WvW to warrant the tickets. Those players are then, effectively, already "playing a game mode they have no interest in" by being PvE players suggesting WvW items should be more accessible to them than to the players who primarily play WvW and are bottlenecked by gold.

I think that a lot of people who complain about this are OW PvE'ers that have 3 choices to get their legendary armor sets together: PvP, WvW and Raids. WvW is the closest thing actually to OW PvE. It's not Raids; Raids require a deeper understanding of their classes and a higher skill level.

But  WvW is the least egregious mode for OW PvE'ers to play in. They can avoid the PvP aspect mostly and just focus on the PvE elements...but it takes a LOT longer than the other two game modes. But that still won't make them choose PvP or Raids. 

And well, OW PvE'ers may not "need" legendary armor, but that's entirely beside the point. They want it and they don't have it available in their preferred game mode, which is OW PvE. So as long as that's the case, in my view, OW PvE'ers will keep coming to WvW. And as long as the tickets don't come faster, they'll spend an even longer time in WvW. 

That seems to be the reality of things and I don't think that holding on tightly to certain opinions will change that reality.

 

[Zikory.6871]

42 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Pretty clear you were confused about what you said and couldn’t understand why people didn’t go after the faster method…🤣

lmao what? I was confused about what I said? That IF time the deciding factor? Get comprehension isn't common but math too. smh my head.