Alac Mesmer Complexity

[zenmer.7965]

I just wanted to see what the philosophy behind alac mirage mesmer was. every other class has it so wasy. engineer is give barriar and apply alac, druid is drop spirit and give alac, theif is drop well and give alac. Then theres mirage where you have to use a staff, create clones, shatter clones, make more clones, use 1 skill only and dodge. that lasts a few seconds then you repeat the process. keeping a decent amount of alac is nearly impossible. you need to have a target to do any of this and if the fight is fast paced the mobs die before you can apply it or you phase and cant give it. alac mirage needs some serious rework to make it fun again and it makes me sad as I really enjoy mesmer. what gives?

[Ellon.4316]

Just make it simpler, there is no shame in swapping the meta viper gear for ritualist or taking a boon duration sigil. You don't even need to follow the "meta" rotation to provide alac. Shattering might provide a bit more DPS but that's just it, a bit more DPS.

So my recommendation would be to not shatter (until you get a bit more comfortable with the build), just focus on dodging and dropping your heal `false oasis` and `crystal sands` utility skills for more dodges.

This should overcap alacrity by only pressing a few buttons once in a while 🙂

Regarding the specter wells, remember chrono wells can also give alac so that's also an option to look at.

[Tseison.4659]

Mirage doesn’t need alac to begin with. It’s fine being Pwr/Condi focused. There was literally no point in giving it alac when Chrono was doing just fine in having quick/alac boons via wells etc… and our Signet of Inspiration sharing boons. Now that those have been given to other professions and they foolishly nerfed two of our Wells that have quickness and alac. Of course people are going to play alac mirage because that boon is only available on one ambush through staff and yet there’s quick and alac support traits on Chrono.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Tseison.4659

[Noodle Ant.1605]

someone just mentioned it but alac chrono can technically do perma alac with 0 boon duration as long as you can aim wells

[Moradorin.6217]

8 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Mirage doesn’t need alac to begin with. It’s fine being Pwr/Condi focused. There was literally no point in giving it alac when Chrono was doing just fine in having quick/alac boons via wells etc… and our Signet of Inspiration sharing boons. Now that those have been given to other professions and they foolishly nerfed two of our Wells that have quickness and alac. Of course people are going to play alac mirage because that boon is only available on one ambush through staff and yet there’s quick and alac support traits on Chrono lol.
 

Again, alac should be removed from mirage ambush and they need to go back to Chrono and either revert some changes they’ve made or create better ones. 

I totally agree Mirage never needed to be alac support. No one wanted or asked for it either, that I saw. I think Mirage got alac to try and clear room to make Virt the new less complicated DPS spec for Mesmer by shifting Mirage's role to a support. At first Staff Mirage was pretty easy to apply alac with and the dps was solid, Kinda like Mech actually. However, the players (even Mesmers) complained that staff Mirage was too good so Anet responded and nerfed it a few times. Now its ok, but not good enough I would choose to play it unless I was stuck on an alt account that has a Mesmer for its alac toon.

IMO they should remove alac from Mirage, give Mirage back its dodge and make ambushes good but balanced and make Virt the Alac support spec since it isnt dependent upon clones + ambush (staff only) for its damage/actions to it would be easier to slip some kinda alac giving action to. But its probably a bit late for that? (no cause Chrono was the only alac support when this all started [HoT] and look now)

 

I would say what I really want for Mesmer but I think Anet already has plans and I dont think they will actually listen to the Mesmer base. I think they will look for posts that in the forum that relate to what they already have planned and use them to assert they are making the changes to please the base. Its a, which came first the chicken or the egg, kinda thing imo lol.

[zenmer.7965]

I wasnt aware chrono was the original alac class. this is all good information. I still hope that they do something with mesmer soon to even things out.

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, zenmer.7965 said:

I wasnt aware chrono was the original alac class. this is all good information. I still hope that they do something with mesmer soon to even things out.

Yes the core game did not have Alacrity. Alacrity was added to the game with the HoT expac and was a Chronomancer exclusive boon. It was also 66% not 33%.

[zenmer.7965]

is chrono still usable for alac? do you have a build by chance?

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1 hour ago, zenmer.7965 said:

is chrono still usable for alac? do you have a build by chance?

was hoping sc had a random build lying around, but it probably doesnt exist because alac mirage “is better” @ 29k, while alac chrono played optimally i think sits somewhere around 24k

its a flexible setup, starting at 0 boon dura all that is needed for perma alac is well of calamity + action + senility + heal well (4 wells). one of the wells may be swapped for shield #5 and it might even be possible to get away with just 3 sources + gravity well and use csplit to cover the gaps. then theres also boon dura to consider if you want to reduce wellspam gameplay

other than that, the rest of the setup is pretty much whatever but the typical dps power setup (sword/sword + gs or x/shield) is probably most optimal

edit: just found this because im too lazy to make the build in editor. its the 3 sources + gravity well i was talking about (gets 26k as well) but i think most players shouldnt mind tanking roughly 2-3k dps and use 4 sources instead for an ez alac build

Edited October 31, 2022 by Noodle Ant.1605

[zenmer.7965]

Thank you for the video I may actually try that at some point

[Kulvar.1239]

On 10/30/2022 at 11:20 AM, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

someone just mentioned it but alac chrono can technically do perma alac with 0 boon duration as long as you can aim wells

I still can't explain why alac chrono builds are not shown on any build website (not even on metabattle)

[Noodle Ant.1605]

7 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

I still can't explain why alac chrono builds are not shown on any build website (not even on metabattle)

easiest answer is that its not known well enough and that these build websites cant show every viable build in the game (even if they did, it would be overwhelming), so they opt to showcase only the most effective or popular builds

its a little bit backwards because majority of players could probably be better off playing more straightforward builds, but its not really the build websites fault either especially when they are intended to push optimal play or something like that. tbh its a little disappointing that theres a lack of resources between "can play with 1 hand/<20 apm etc" LI level and "casually pressing 10 extra buttons for 1k dps incease" gamergod level guides because that would probably be where this build falls into

[Levetty.1279]

Seeing a lot of non Mesmer pretending to be Mesmer players claiming that Staff shouldn't have alac with no actual reason why.

Weird that.

[mossmere.9503]

This one gives both quick/alac choices: Lucky Noobs [LN] - Speedclear Guild (lucky-noobs.com) 

The quick/alac choice here: Chronomancer - Boon Support Power DPS - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

and pvp here: GW2 - Bunker Chronomancer PvP Build - GuildJen

 

[Moradorin.6217]

9 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Seeing a lot of non Mesmer pretending to be Mesmer players claiming that Staff shouldn't have alac with no actual reason why.

Weird that.

I have been playing this game since release. I have one of those silly Celebration hats and everything. =p My main Mesmer toon (I have more than one) is 10 years old with over 6k hours. I didnt exactly say staff shouldnt have alac. I did, however, say that I dont remember anyone asking for alac on staff and I remember many Vet players suggesting what staff had needed was NOT alac but an actual buff to make it a better weapon after they slowed the projectiles and did a number of other nerfs to staff.

 

I am a real Mesmer player. I choose to play other classes these days because I got sick of the split mode strangeness of switching between Mirage w 2 dodges in pve and 1 dodge in pvp/wvw. So now I just play Mirage when AlacMir or portal is needed basically. (Escort tower, Math, TC if at all) Im not saying it cant be played and even do well in other things. Im saying I find other class/specs work better overall and do not suffer from the strange split-mode trade-off Mirage got with one dodge.

 

Here is the last video I made of some WvW play for fun. It was clips from Dec 2020. Its not the flashy killshot videos people usually do. Its just me playing mostly 1v1 w a little 1v2. They are the fights I won. I dont usually post up the many I dont win.

 

 

[Levetty.1279]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:34 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

I have been playing this game since release. I have one of those silly Celebration hats and everything. =p My main Mesmer toon (I have more than one) is 10 years old with over 6k hours. I didnt exactly say staff shouldnt have alac. I did, however, say that I dont remember anyone asking for alac on staff and I remember many Vet players suggesting what staff had needed was NOT alac but an actual buff to make it a better weapon after they slowed the projectiles and did a number of other nerfs to staff.

 

I am a real Mesmer player. I choose to play other classes these days because I got sick of the split mode strangeness of switching between Mirage w 2 dodges in pve and 1 dodge in pvp/wvw. So now I just play Mirage when AlacMir or portal is needed basically. (Escort tower, Math, TC if at all) Im not saying it cant be played and even do well in other things. Im saying I find other class/specs work better overall and do not suffer from the strange split-mode trade-off Mirage got with one dodge.

 

Here is the last video I made of some WvW play for fun. It was clips from Dec 2020. Its not the flashy killshot videos people usually do. Its just me playing mostly 1v1 w a little 1v2. They are the fights I won. I dont usually post up the many I dont win.

 

 

Why bother qouting me if your post has nothing to do with what I said?

[dead.7638]

Mirage staff without alac?   Tf you all on.   Without alac on staff, mirage staff would be gutted and completely useless.   Where is this even coming from?   What is the actual complaint here?   The build has been targets of nerfs for a few years now, how can you still be complaining about this?

[godfat.2604]

The problem is that the theme doesn’t really fit and it feels random. It feels like it’s robbed from Chronomancer, too, and Chronomancer did poorly with alacrity right now.

We should really look at changes in packages, not in a vacuum. For example, burning should be added back to staff, and we can also add much more other compensations to Mirage as exchange. No one is saying that Mirage should lose alacrity for nothing. That of course doesn’t make sense.

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, dead.7638 said:

Mirage staff without alac?   Tf you all on.   Without alac on staff, mirage staff would be gutted and completely useless.   Where is this even coming from?   What is the actual complaint here?   The build has been targets of nerfs for a few years now, how can you still be complaining about this?

The problem is at the time the player base was asking for buffs to Mirage because of its many nerfs and very high skill ceiling for axe. Anet was trying to buff staff at the time and had tried a few things. This was all during the trade-offs concept period and IMO alac was added to staff to create a thing for Anet to point to for Mirage and assert all is well without addressing the one dodge issue.

 

Leave staff or dont IDK, but I agree it was never needed on Mirage. Mirage shouldnt be a support spec. Its a damage spec. Staff should have been buffed at the core level not JUST for Mirage. Its just another thing that makes Mirage this off trade-offs filled POS(piece of kitten) class.

[dead.7638]

31 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

 

Leave staff or dont IDK, but I agree it was never needed on Mirage. Mirage shouldnt be a support spec. Its a damage spec. Staff should have been buffed at the core level not JUST for Mirage. Its just another thing that makes Mirage this off trade-offs filled POS(piece of kitten) class.

Taking alac off staff at this point will kill the build all together.   Build diversity is a good thing.   Saying Mesmer is only good for dps is further killing the class.   The alac, even if it doesn’t fit you say.   Is the one thing that allows mirage to be viable on staff.   Try playing it without it and it becomes pointless and lack luster.   There was a patch that had a unintended nerf on staff awhile back, you couldn’t play the build without the alac.   I doubt mirage skills will ever get rolled back as a buff.   And that would assume anet was wrong about it so…

[Salt Mode.3780]

Mirage was viable before alacrity was put on staff. It only lost viability because of the constant nerfs through condi applications and how torment and confusion work. Mirage was not released with Alacrity and giving alacrity was the easiest Band-Aid they can think of without really thinking much. This was also to compensate the nerfs they had done in WvW and sPvP. You cannot just put alacrity on staff in PvE only and leave WvW and sPvP without it. 

[Moradorin.6217]

22 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Taking alac off staff at this point will kill the build all together.   Build diversity is a good thing.   Saying Mesmer is only good for dps is further killing the class.   The alac, even if it doesn’t fit you say.   Is the one thing that allows mirage to be viable on staff.   Try playing it without it and it becomes pointless and lack luster.   There was a patch that had a unintended nerf on staff awhile back, you couldn’t play the build without the alac.   I doubt mirage skills will ever get rolled back as a buff.   And that would assume anet was wrong about it so…

Yea Im not trying to actually say it should get removed at this point. So many people play it for alac support it would be very disruptive to people's play. I am, however, trying to maintain the historic record of the fact that it was never asked for and was done to avoid actually balancing Mirage.

[Moradorin.6217]

2 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Mirage was viable before alacrity was put on staff. It only lost viability because of the constant nerfs through condi applications and how torment and confusion work. Mirage was not released with Alacrity and giving alacrity was the easiest Band-Aid they can think of without really thinking much. This was also to compensate the nerfs they had done in WvW and sPvP. You cannot just put alacrity on staff in PvE only and leave WvW and sPvP without it. 

^^ This pretty much repeats that.

 

Also I responded because another post made false accusations that myself and others are not real Mesmer players. Well I think I am one of the most real mesmer players since I have played the class 10 years in all 3 game modes and have over 6000 hours on a single (I have others) Mesmer on my main account (I have others).

[Salt Mode.3780]

28 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Taking alac off staff at this point will kill the build all together.   Build diversity is a good thing.   Saying Mesmer is only good for dps is further killing the class.   The alac, even if it doesn’t fit you say.   Is the one thing that allows mirage to be viable on staff.   Try playing it without it and it becomes pointless and lack luster.   There was a patch that had a unintended nerf on staff awhile back, you couldn’t play the build without the alac.   I doubt mirage skills will ever get rolled back as a buff.   And that would assume anet was wrong about it so…

Specs should perform according to different playstyle, for example in terms of Guardian, you won't use a DH or willbender to support. Specs are suppose to be a different playstyle and a defining role. Problem is GW2 at release avoided the whole Trinity system and now leaning towards it. A game that was not designed upon the trinity system and adding it later on will only cause balance issues with people complaining why X job cannot perform Y role or comparing different specs with similar support mechanics but wondering why X job is not on par with Y job.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[dead.7638]

That may be, but your arguing with anet, not me.   I didn’t make statements about every class/spec should have it’s own everything.   You’re saying the one thing keeping that build viable is some how ruining your experience.   I didn’t set these rules or do I get a say in them.   However the current state of mirage staff having alac is whats keeping it alive in any game mode.   I mean if you do or don’t play the class, would you even play staff mirage at this point if it didn’t have alac?   All I see is a few people complaining about alac on staff being a problem that doesn’t  even effect them during their gaming experience.   There is nothing productive coming out of this topic, just nay  saying Mesmer.   How about recreate a topic on core Mesmer traits to make it better.   And not another post bitching about mesmers.   kittening trolls.