Reaper Changes Feedback - 29 November balance preview

[Veneratio.1980]

So it’s still no good? I play reaper only occasionally but not nearly enough to know if the buffs are enough or not.

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I guess I'm just going to repeat myself here AGAIN, for like, the 10th time:

I'm not against Reaper getting DPS buffs. I'm against the idea that giving Reaper competitive DPS is a good solution to making it 'team well' in endgame PVE. It's NOT the DPS that is holding the spec back; it's how self-sufficient it is at like ... everything. 

I know Reaper has been buffed in it's existence and it was meta for a blink of an eye at some point. That doesn't change the fact that in the 8 years (and still going ...) Anet has NOT shown an interest in fulfilling people's fantasy about Reaper being competitive DPS. New balance team? That's nice ... and that competitive DPS buff is where in the last 2, 3 patches? The same place it's been in the last 20-30 patches. I prefer to keep my feet grounded here. 

So what you're saying is that you're not against DPS buffs, but you are against DPS buffs that are enough to matter.

Your historical argument is fallacious because it doesn't take into account context. The previous balance team was, at best, apathetic towards actually fixing underperforming specs, unless what they played was underperforming and then it got buffed through the roof. So only the last 2-3 patches really matter - and in that context, we also need to consider that the patches have been meaty and they could only fit so much in. They've taken a step in the right direction. It is valid feedback to take a few more.

As for the self-sufficiency argument:

Reaper being able to grant itself quickness, might, and so on absolutely does not justify it doing less damage than dps supports that provide those boons to their entire party. So even by that logic, reaper should be buffed to be at least about 34k so that it outperforms the quickheralds, harbingers, qrappers, quickbrands, and any other group quickness build.

If doing more DPS than that without relying on support is a problem, they could resolve that by buffing the parallel traits rather than those that provide that self-sufficiency. For instance, if they gave Deathly Chill a 20% strike damage against chilled foes, that'd match the ferocity increase from Reaper's Onslaught, while the bleed procs from chill would be an added bonus even on a full berserker (or valkyrie, even) build.

So there's a roadmap. Buff the self-sufficient build so that it's at least doing more damage than builds that can provide the same benefits to an entire subsquad. Then buff parallel traits so that when the support is there they can shoot for higher numbers. After all, running quickness trait for self-sufficiency when solo while switching to another GM trait when quickness is coming from somewhere else is a principle that already works well for harbinger.

[RyasmaRaven.6018]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, says you. I have yet to see Anet confirm Reaper is supposed to be good at one thing and that one thing is DPS. For something it's supposed to be good at, seems Anet has different ideas.

So why it's hard to understand? Probably because players don't decide these things, Anet does. 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-reaper-necromancers-elite-specialization/

 

"This devastating melee brawler is at home in battle when surrounded by as many enemies as possible, cleaving through hapless foes for life-force sustainment. Once the reaper has enough life force, they can transform into a devastating avatar of destruction that leaves enemies frozen in terror." -Anet

 

"Reaper not DPS lol" -you for some reason

 

???????? Literally one of the first things we learned about it

[Obtena.7952]

20 minutes ago, DragonRanger.2389 said:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-reaper-necromancers-elite-specialization/

 

"This devastating melee brawler is at home in battle when surrounded by as many enemies as possible, cleaving through hapless foes for life-force sustainment. Once the reaper has enough life force, they can transform into a devastating avatar of destruction that leaves enemies frozen in terror." -Anet

 

"Reaper not DPS lol" -you for some reason

 

???????? Literally one of the first things we learned about it

I don't see anything in there about DPS being the only thing Reaper is supposed to be good at, which was what you claimed.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

So what you're saying is that you're not against DPS buffs, but you are against DPS buffs that are enough to matter.

 

Not sure what the barrier is here but, I will state simply again:

I'm against the idea that giving Reaper competitive DPS is a good solution to making it 'team well' in endgame PVE.

I've already explained why. If you disagree, that's OK. What I think might be wrong. I don't mind because ultimately, Anet is going to do what they want and seems to me from where I'm sitting ... Anet isn't too keen on making Reaper a competitive DPS class with flat, mega DPS buffs in PVE. 

So I don't really need to justify what I think based on some logical argument. It's based on what happens, for reals. It's purely empirical, based on observing why and what Anet does when they change something on a class. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Ruisenior.6342]

2 hours ago, Veneratio.1980 said:

So it’s still no good? I play reaper only occasionally but not nearly enough to know if the buffs are enough or not.

We still lacking damage and we will keep struggling to stay on shroud form. So thats a NO not enough

[RyasmaRaven.6018]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see anything in there about DPS being the only thing Reaper is supposed to be good at. 

 

So sorry your reading comprehension is bad. Here, let me help you:

 

"cleaving through hapless foes" and "they can transform into a devastating avatar of destruction"  -> "Reaper is great at killing things"

Also from the wiki: "Reapers are natural damage dealers"

 

Not sure how else you can interpret that as anything but Reaper=DPS, but I'm sure you will find a way ❤️

[Obtena.7952]

22 minutes ago, DragonRanger.2389 said:

"cleaving through hapless foes" and "they can transform into a devastating avatar of destruction"  -> "Reaper is great at killing things"

Also from the wiki: "Reapers are natural damage dealers"

That's a nice talkdown but again, nothing about Wiki is official from Anet (that's player's creating that content) and nothing about the description you posted indicates Reaper is supposed to be good at one thing that is DPS, which is what you claimed.

I mean, Reaper is going to do what Anet wants it to do and I'm sure they aren't going to be restricted in how they do that because you decide to interpret the spec description in the way you have done. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Warscythes.9307]

2 hours ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

We still lacking damage and we will keep struggling to stay on shroud form. So thats a NO not enough

35k is actually fine for reaper if is not for the fact that due to major power creep, average dps is like 38-39k now which I think is ridiculous. I think they need to bring the average way down and just leave reaper where it is. Reaper shroud really isn't a problem anyway with the LF buffs.

[Infusion.7149]

8 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

35k is actually fine for reaper if is not for the fact that due to major power creep, average dps is like 38-39k now which I think is ridiculous. I think they need to bring the average way down and just leave reaper where it is. Reaper shroud really isn't a problem anyway with the LF buffs.

I think that is being overly optimistic since reaper was never good in instanced content per say. Even if you have a 38K reaper you aren't playing that over harbinger or scourge in raids or strikes generally speaking. The notable exceptions are likely Keep Construct and Conjured Amalgamate and fast groups on Adina. Reaper is more or less useless with epidemic on MO or on Sabir as well and it would be insanity to run it on Vale Guardian or Soulless Horror. So long as there isn't phasing then condi reigns supreme.

The best usage of reaper right now is when you are playing fractals with phasing and many trash mobs. Otherwise it's openworld.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Warscythes.9307]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I think that is being overly optimistic since reaper was never good in instanced content per say. Even if you have a 38K reaper you aren't playing that over harbinger or scourge in raids or strikes generally speaking. The notable exceptions are likely Keep Construct and Conjured Amalgamate and fast groups on Adina. Reaper is more or less useless with epidemic on MO or on Sabir as well and it would be insanity to run it on Vale Guardian or Soulless Horror. So long as there isn't phasing then condi reigns supreme.

If Reaper bench 38k you will definitely play it over harbinger or scourge in some places. It has better cc as well as cleave and opening burst. I can understand VG but that's wrong with SH? The movement? If you are a bit more careful with it is not really that bad.

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Warscythes.9307 said:

If Reaper bench 38k you will definitely play it over harbinger or scourge in some places. It has better cc as well as cleave and opening burst. I can understand VG but that's wrong with SH? The movement? If you are a bit more careful with it is not really that bad.

For one SH people run condi generally and ask all necros to epidemic for wurms. One reaper pull on the TD would make for a very bad day in addition to the constant damage incoming which lowers life force.

[Warscythes.9307]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

For one SH people run condi generally and ask all necros to epidemic for wurms. One reaper pull on the TD would make for a very bad day in addition to the constant damage incoming which lowers life force.

I have honestly never seen people asking for condi. Scourge with epi for TD yes, full condi not really. Epi only get up to 5 stacks anyway. You don't need everyone to be condi to fill that. Yes there is constant damage but most bosses have pulsing auras and random damage. I never really felt starving for LF there especially with the wurms. I mostly have trouble with setting aoes down and a wall comes and tank has to move.

 

In any case though before we get too far in SH, I think Reaper if is capable of performing the current average then yes it will see play over Scourge/Harb.

[Infusion.7149]

Yes reaper relying on wells is another issue. Condi necros don't have that problem since they generally run Blood is Power and the Signet of Undeath plus Epidemic.

[Parpage.9867]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

So what you're saying is that you're not against DPS buffs, but you are against DPS buffs that are enough to matter.

Your historical argument is fallacious because it doesn't take into account context. The previous balance team was, at best, apathetic towards actually fixing underperforming specs, unless what they played was underperforming and then it got buffed through the roof. So only the last 2-3 patches really matter - and in that context, we also need to consider that the patches have been meaty and they could only fit so much in. They've taken a step in the right direction. It is valid feedback to take a few more.

As for the self-sufficiency argument:

Reaper being able to grant itself quickness, might, and so on absolutely does not justify it doing less damage than dps supports that provide those boons to their entire party. So even by that logic, reaper should be buffed to be at least about 34k so that it outperforms the quickheralds, harbingers, qrappers, quickbrands, and any other group quickness build.

If doing more DPS than that without relying on support is a problem, they could resolve that by buffing the parallel traits rather than those that provide that self-sufficiency. For instance, if they gave Deathly Chill a 20% strike damage against chilled foes, that'd match the ferocity increase from Reaper's Onslaught, while the bleed procs from chill would be an added bonus even on a full berserker (or valkyrie, even) build.

So there's a roadmap. Buff the self-sufficient build so that it's at least doing more damage than builds that can provide the same benefits to an entire subsquad. Then buff parallel traits so that when the support is there they can shoot for higher numbers. After all, running quickness trait for self-sufficiency when solo while switching to another GM trait when quickness is coming from somewhere else is a principle that already works well for harbinger.

It's honestly hilarious really, until a few days ago he was like "Noooooo but you don't need to have arcdps and wingman to tell you how to have fun with a class dps doesn't matter stop pushing your meta agenda!". And now that we got a substantial quality of life upgrade plus a bit more dps he's embracing the "well AKSUALLY reaper dps is still too low why are you happy QUIT HAVING FUN" lmaoooooo

[Pooh.6897]

It’s okay dagger, I’m sure you will one day get buffs and a build that appreciates all of your quirky sides instead of just your LF generation 😞 

[The Boz.2038]

5 hours ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

We still lacking damage and we will keep struggling to stay on shroud form. So thats a NO not enough

Wue?
DPS got a *nice* bump, and LF generation is easier than ever! You aren't supposed to stay in it forever.

[Ruisenior.6342]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Wue?
DPS got a *nice* bump, and LF generation is easier than ever! You aren't supposed to stay in it forever.

1-Dps it's still subpar we won some burst but our main damaging skills didnt change (shroud auto+soul spiral) buffing shroud skills nº 2 and 5 damage would have made an impact on pvp/wvw but those changes are for pve so... ok we are fine XD

2-We gained alot of life force generation out of shroud but the problem will prevail; we wont be able to maintain our shroud form (our main damage source)

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

1-Dps it's still subpar we won some burst but our main damaging skills didnt change (shroud auto+soul spiral) buffing shroud skills nº 2 and 5 damage would have made an impact on pvp/wvw but those changes are for pve so... ok we are fine XD

2-We gained alot of life force generation out of shroud but the problem will prevail; we wont be able to maintain our shroud form (our main damage source)

The new rotation and trait design suggests an optimal shroud uptime of 15s every 25s, which is trivial. Staying in shroud for longer than that is a DPS loss due to GS5 and wells.

[Ruisenior.6342]

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

The new rotation and trait design suggests an optimal shroud uptime of 15s every 25s, which is trivial. Staying in shroud for longer than that is a DPS loss due to GS5 and wells.

Try to stay on shroud for 15seconds under high preasure situations

Edited November 30, 2022 by Ruisenior.6342

[The Boz.2038]

5 minutes ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

Try to stay on shroud for 15seconds under high preasure situations

What you describe is either minor inconvenience, easily doable, irrelevant, or a boon compared to other classes. Can't say for sure without knowing more.

[Ruisenior.6342]

15 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What you describe is either minor inconvenience, easily doable, irrelevant, or a boon compared to other classes. Can't say for sure without knowing more.

yes

[AlopiasGW.1932]

Reaper is a much better now. In my opinion the last important change they need to do is changing the shoud mechanic. Give it the harbinger treatment. No damage negation only damage buff. Much easier to balance.

[Darkstalix.5183]

Please can we get something like a "fix" on death charge? sometimes it gets stuck to the smallest thing on the ground not propelling my character

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

7 hours ago, Darkstalix.5183 said:

Please can we get something like a "fix" on death charge? sometimes it gets stuck to the smallest thing on the ground not propelling my character

It seems to me that you don't get stuck on anything, more like you just got stuck on place (no object/thing needed) =:/