Back to square 1 after 29th November patch

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Core engineer weapon were always lackluster both in quality but also in quantity. Rifle got a rework, it became competitive and all we needed now was a rework of pistol(both hand).

 

But what do we get instead ? Another unecessary rifle nerf. PvE isnt going to suffer much from the change but SPvP and WvW ? I suppose it's back to default placeholder for power weapon. Anet seems to hate kits and wants people to use more Engineer weapon but then they kill all potential core weapon. Nerfing the auto attack isnt a big deal some may say, but if it isnt even worth using the auto attack as a filler then something is wrong.

 

And yes I hear you the guy at the back screaming Holosmith sword, Mechanist mace and Scrapper hammer are good but the issue isnt that these weapons are good, it's that core weapon are just bad - garbage. After the patch Scrapper is going to run Hammer by default, Holosmith is going to run sword by default. Oh yeah I forgot Mechanist exist in any form of PvP content, I'm sorry, they're just so garbage it's easy to forget them, yeah sure they'll run a scuffed rifle along with their scuffed spec. But man I wouldnt want to be a core Engineer now in SPvP or WvW where my weapon would just serve as a stat stick and occasionnally using 1-2 skill. 

 

In the end, as far as PvP and WvW is concerned we're going back to square 1. Either pick a spec so you can use the spec weapon or use core weapon as a stat stick and camp kit. It's probably just a matter of time before Anet nerf even more rifle to a point mace for Mechanist is going to be the default weapon for PvE.

[Kodama.6453]

I wouldn't mind a PvP rifle auto nerf so much if it wouldn't be so extremely heavy handed.

With the proposed change, the rifle auto attack will be weaker than using the auto attack of elixir gun.... which also applies weakness on the enemy, btw. Using the rifle auto attack is definitely not worth it anymore if this change goes through.

Meanwhile pistol auto attack still shoots remarkably slower than it is supposed to, for 10 years already. Still no sign that they have any intention on fixing this.

Maybe this is all part of a plan to force engineer players to buy expansions if they want to play pvp....

[zeyeti.8347]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Maybe this is all part of a plan to force engineer players to buy expansions if they want to play pvp....

Hit the right spot ! Now that extension has been sold , they can nerf e-specs , like league of legends , new champion op : 3weeks later , nerf to the ground .

[Uete.3805]

So... The rifle autoattack change only affects the number of hits it does but it keeps the same dps in PvE. I understand the frustration regarding competitive modes, but I also trust that if it gets too trashy they'll just pump up the numbers. Personally, I loath any competitive build that relies on autoattacking constantly (looking at you flamethrower aa).

Aesthetically, it's the right call to change how the aa works, and numbers getting looked upon after the fact is (imo) the right way to go for these kind of changes.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Uete.3805
Clarifying the mode this comment was about and adding my opinion on rifle in competitive modes.

[Kuma.1503]

As much as I loathe this change in general, core rifle engi does not become unplayable as a result. 

Core rifle is a combo-based build. Your goal is to overwhelm your opponents defenses. You have more hard hitting skills than they have dodges. The combo routes you can take are varied enough that if the opponent survives one burst, you've got another one lined up. 

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Example Combos:

 

Combo 1

You might engage a fight by immobilizing the target with net shot. If they dodge the net shot, they're down one dodge. If not, they're immobilized and cannot dodge what comes next. 

You follow up with Magnet to pull the target in > Prybar > Acid Bomb for a quick burst. Then now that you're at range, you throw wrench at them for some additional damage. 

Combo 2

You use Overcharge shot to knock down the target > Immediately jump shot on top of them > Blunderbuss > Prybar. Then you can acid bomb away for additional damage and to get some range on your opponenet. 

Combo 3

You use Magnet to pull your enemy in close > Blunderbuss at point blank > Acid bomb away > Throw wrench.

Then you've got your overcharge shot, jump shot, and prybar ready to go for your second burst.

Combo 4

For AED enjoyers. If the enemy is out of stunbreaks you can go ham and drop your full burst on them. 

Magnet > AED toolbelt > Prybar > Overcharge Shot > Jump Shot > Net shot > Blunderbuss > Acid Bomb. 

 

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I bring this up because we got a very underrated buff this patch.

 

If a CC'd or movement impaired target crosses box of legos they get immobilized.
 

This means when we can change our combo from Magnet > Prybar 

to Box of Legos > Magnet > Prybar. Getting hit by this will immobilize the target, making our follow up prybar more consistent. 

We can also proc the immobilize with Flashbang. If we drop box of legos just as someone ports onto us, we can turn the tables with an auto attack, daze them, proc the immobilize, then combo them back. 

Or we can drop a frost shell on top of our box of legos and create a zone of NOPE. 

 

Overall, I think Core engi will survive. These nerfs hit rifle Mechanist the hardest. It will be a build that effectively accomplishes nothing. Low damage, low survivability, low utility. Basically a free 5 pts for the enemy team, which is what people wanted Mech to be from the get-go, so I reckon they're celebrating right now. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[MaLong.2079]

I have not used rifle in a long time but for what the description says I am guessing that now there will be one less chance to activate on-hit, on-crit, etc. effects. Also opponents using effects like blindness and aegis should benefit from this change. It is a hard nerf in disguise.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I dont really care that much about having -1 on hit/on crit effect, it's more about the damage being scuffed.  I see literaly 0 reason why Engineer rifle should get a damage nerf in PvP/WvW when it's not even overperforming. Rifle AA right now is worth using as a filler or just to poke at someone. Right now you can play Engineer rifle with kits. After the change, you will be playing Engineer kit with a stat stick also known as a rifle.

 

If they are dead set on removing the extra bullet before the grenade, then buff the coefficient of the bullet and the grenade.

 

 

[Accesitt.8415]

I think you are confusing the information. From what I read, it's not a nerf to the rifle in pvp at all, because the shot animation time will decrease. On the contrary in PVE the animation time for two shots will be maintained. Basically in PVP it will be just two shots, but faster.

[MaLong.2079]

1 hour ago, Accesitt.8415 said:

I think you are confusing the information. From what I read, it's not a nerf to the rifle in pvp at all, because the shot animation time will decrease. On the contrary in PVE the animation time for two shots will be maintained. Basically in PVP it will be just two shots, but faster.

Rifle Burst: This skill now fires one piercing projectile before the grenade instead of two. Increased piercing projectile power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.4 in PvE only. Grenade power coefficient increased from 0.4 to 0.6 in PvE only. Increased skill animation speed; total animation duration remains the same as previous version in PvE only.

If we brake it down by sentence it becomes this:

- This skill now fires one piercing projectile before the grenade instead of two. <--- NO SPLIT

- Increased piercing projectile power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.4 in PvE only.

- Grenade power coefficient increased from 0.4 to 0.6 in PvE only.

- Increased skill animation speed; total animation duration remains the same as previous version in PvE only.

Maybe all 4 changes are in PvE only but for what is in the description it is reasonable to think that PvP and WvW will get one less bullet and no increased coefficients or animation speed.

----------------------------------------------

EDIT: I see what you mean now. Less shots but faster. It will come down to how much faster it is then. It could even be a buff if it is a lot faster.

Edited November 16, 2022 by MaLong.2079

[miriforst.1290]

Watched the stream, they specifically stated they wanted to preserve the damage in pve but nerf it in wvw/pvp because of... mechanists.

 

The cast time per burst is likely going to stay the same, they argue the change was primarily an animation clean up,

It is at 51 min 43 sec if you are interested.

Edited November 16, 2022 by miriforst.1290

[MaLong.2079]

4 minutes ago, miriforst.1290 said:

Watched the stream, they specifically stated they wanted to preserve the damage in pve but nerf it in wvw/pvp because of... mechanists.

 

The cast time per burst is likely going to stay the same, they argue the change was primarily an animation clean up,

It is at 51 min 43 sec if you are interested.

Too bad. Another nerf then.

[Caiden.9074]

I'm interested to see where this goes.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Caiden.9074

[Accesitt.8415]

 

players using rifle in pvp currently "0"

What kind of arrangement did they make? the rifle is useless, slow, boring, useless

[Zzik.5873]

This patch was an anti fun patch for engi. We now have the ugliest weapon skill animation of the whole game (rifle 1) and the mechanist feel soooooo clunky now. What a bunch of unfun and kitten change.

[Zzik.5873]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:54 AM, miriforst.1290 said:

Watched the stream, they specifically stated they wanted to preserve the damage in pve but nerf it in wvw/pvp because of... mechanists.

 

The cast time per burst is likely going to stay the same, they argue the change was primarily an animation clean up,

It is at 51 min 43 sec if you are interested.

Animation clean up? Dont they have any professionnal animator that work there? I mean the new animation look laughtly bad. Iv seen student project with waaaaaaay better animation than this. It look like "my first 3D animation project".

[Heibi.4251]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:28 AM, Accesitt.8415 said:

I think you are confusing the information. From what I read, it's not a nerf to the rifle in pvp at all, because the shot animation time will decrease. On the contrary in PVE the animation time for two shots will be maintained. Basically in PVP it will be just two shots, but faster.

The damage is abysmal in pvp - players can laugh at you because you do so little damage. Where I was getting decent damage before I'm getting sub 500 per hit now on a main weapon. That is how bad the nerf is. It's like using a pea-shooter on a battleship hull now.

[Zebulon.1850]

1 hour ago, Heibi.4251 said:

The damage is abysmal in pvp - players can laugh at you because you do so little damage. Where I was getting decent damage before I'm getting sub 500 per hit now on a main weapon. That is how bad the nerf is. It's like using a pea-shooter on a battleship hull now.

Yeah, I don't know of another power weapon that has less damage coefficient. .385 is absolutely horrible.