Willbender Needs these three changes immediately

[Saiyan.1704]

Reversal of Fortune's block priority NEEDS to supercede all blocks so we can freakin' heal!! Aegis supercedes Shield of Wrath's 3 blocks, which is good because there's a higher chance for SoW to explode when it ends but Fortune does not supercede SoW or aegis... which means when we have low health and pop Fortune and SoW, we have to wait for the 3 blocks from SoW to finalize before Fortune can block and deliver us a full heal. It's utterly frustrating.

 

Flash Combo needs to have a stunebreak on it. Secondly it needs a buff in damage.. or instead of increased damages just remove the target requirement for activation instead of having to wait for another target to enter our characters targeting range...

Heaven's Palm is so disgustingly BAD that idk where to start.. give us 1.25s of invulnerability while in the air (WHY DO CC  SKILLS FREEZE US IN THE AIR BTW??)  remove the require target limiter so we can cast it anywhere at anytime. And if by some miracle we hit some one with it and that person gets stunned, remove the animation downtime... we lose like 100 frames from the time we land, to the time we are able to attack the stunned target.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[otto.5684]

That could be a start, but WB needs way more. All guardian power dps is pretty bad in pve currently. And power WB is not even on the map.

Edited December 15, 2022 by otto.5684

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, otto.5684 said:

They could be a start, but WB needs way more. All guardian power dps is pretty bad in pve currently. And power WB is not even on the map.

I've been using this build exclusively last season and it really isn't that bad. I haven't had this much fun on a Guard build since they initially released Firebrand.

If Flash Combo (amongst other items..) was buffed we'd be the new Heralds.. imo... but I do find this build a whole lot better than the old Marauder GS WB meta a few seasons ago... and any other WB build we currently have. I have been able to survive longer than other WB builds that try to utilize more toughness or Valor Medi heals. A Guard player said it best (i forgot his name sorry ;_; ) that Guardian is all about stacking damage modifiers right now and he wasn't wrong... Willbender just needs some major QoL help right now, like the Reversal of Forune issues for starters.

I've been meaning to make a Youtube video in ranked/AT against some decent players... at least gold3/Plat1 level but I haven't made the time for that yet >_<... 

EDIT: I'm not saying it's a GG 5v5 Monthly build that destroys people but it's definitely one of the better builds Guardian has going for it.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[otto.5684]

I retired from spvp in mid 2020. The current spvp is slow and frustrating for me 😔
 

For pve cWB is good. Best guardian solo build and pretty good in any setting. The power variant does not work, and it is not only a scaling issue. The elite skills is pretty bad. Off hand sword has a bit of tracking issue and definitely under powered. The power build is the same as DH and core, and weaker on top. 2 of the 3 WB grand masters are useless. I am not sure if the alacrity is there to be used or as a joke. It surely is the latter.

 

CWB is fun to play, still, it is core condi guardian with a leap. Anet gets an F for creativity. And WB otherwise is pretty bad. In pve at least. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by otto.5684

[Saiyan.1704]

2 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

I retired from spvp in mid 2020. The current spvp is slow and frustrating for me 😔
 

For pve cWB is good. Best guardian solo build and pretty good in any setting. The power variant does not work, and it is not only a scaling issue. The elite skills is pretty bad. Off hand sword has a bit of tracking issue and definitely under powered. The power build is the same as DH and core, and weaker on top. 2 of the 3 WB grand masters are useless. I am not sure if the alacrity is there to be used or as a joke. It surely is the latter.

 

CWB is fun to play, still, it is core condi guardian with a leap. Anet gets an F for creativity. And WB otherwise is pretty bad. In pve at least. 

Ooph that sounds pretty bad... Power WB in sPvP isnt on that level of terrible but it certainly needs to be played good to work and right now there are little to NONE good Willbenders in PvP. I think that's why i'm posting these builds. Because even if you don't want to WB, you can at least be decent on the other builds that are better than old meta DH LB. WB is a VERY fast pace playstyle if that's your thing. You should get back into it even casually :3

[Sleepwalker.1398]

9 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

 right now there are little to NONE good Willbenders in PvP. 

Yes, cos they are all in WvW ☺️

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Yes, cos they are all in WvW ☺️

Hehehe... this makes a lot of sense XD. I never liked WvW because it was a LOT of walking... i don't like walking for 5 minutes at a time only to die in a random horde blob fight or something.....

[DarkSoul.2348]

willbender needs some love for sure.Hoping we will see some by next year or early next year its nearly holidays so i am stoked with the updates we have been getting and appreciate them alot.I have hope they will bring will bender to deliver a spec that plays more like how it is decribed, even clunky it can be pretty kitten sometimes in pve.We just have to keep the input going and be patient is all,they are doing a great job lately and i think next year will be great for guild wars 2 i want to be  excited for Q1.

[zealex.9410]

For pvp specificly could you (anet) increase the duration of f1 effect, or lower its cd slightly and also increase the alacrity output from f2?

[Saiyan.1704]

Bump... for emphasis.

Changes to our heal mechanic is an absolute must. It's block mechanic needs to supersede every other block.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:07 AM, Saiyan.1704 said:

Hehehe... this makes a lot of sense XD. I never liked WvW because it was a LOT of walking... i don't like walking for 5 minutes at a time only to die in a random horde blob fight or something.....

Well we have a WvW mount now, so that helps. But yeah that's part of WvW. If you die before you can get revived then your penalty is that you cannot rejoin the fight right away. If you could that would be bad by itself actually.

Of course the walking bit is not actually 5 mins, but it does feel like that 🤣

I tried Willbender when it first came out but I just couldn't feel it. So it does make me wonder what makes it good in WvW when I see all these issues with it.

 

[oubee.9520]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:06 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well we have a WvW mount now, so that helps. But yeah that's part of WvW. If you die before you can get revived then your penalty is that you cannot rejoin the fight right away. If you could that would be bad by itself actually.

Of course the walking bit is not actually 5 mins, but it does feel like that 🤣

I tried Willbender when it first came out but I just couldn't feel it. So it does make me wonder what makes it good in WvW when I see all these issues with it.

 

Awesome mobility + crazy burst damage. You can delete someone in seconds. Zerg is awesome too with support you can just cleave through blobs and delete multiple targets + perma alac with 0 boon duration.

Edited December 27, 2022 by oubee.9520

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/26/2022 at 4:14 PM, oubee.9520 said:

Awesome mobility + crazy burst damage. You can delete someone in seconds. Zerg is awesome too with support you can just cleave through blobs and delete multiple targets + perma alac with 0 boon duration.

Well that explains it. So do you agree with the OP at all then?

[Saiyan.1704]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:11 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well that explains it. So do you agree with the OP at all then?

Not to answer for him, but in sPvP Willbender has one of the best, if not the best, cleave in the game. So I imagine it is similiar in WvW as well. One of the ways to offer proficient bursts in sPvP is to use zerker amulet, but there's a lot of QoL issues with our utilities and healing ability that makes that build frustrating at times. The top of the list being Reversal of Fortune being covered by Aegis or Shield of Wrath. No doubt the same QoL issues exist for WvW.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[Sagedurk.7358]

There's another thing I'd like to add.

Remove the need for taking Battle Presence to give party-wide alac.

We are already forced into taking Phoenix Protocol over Tyrant's Momentum anyway, and TM got buffed with the last balance patch, so the damage rift between alac and pure dps increased

On power alac, you're forced into virtues traitline and thus forced into relying on aegis uptime, instead of getting the resolution pseudo-Fury trait.

Needing 2 grandmaster traits, one of them being elite spec, solely to give 5-man alacrity isn't good. Not from a perspective of fun, not from a perspective of buildcrafting, and it's not like defaulting PP to be 5-man would make Alac Willbender OP, at least not in PvE.

 

Power Alac Willbender would be able to take Radiance and get closer to the crit cap

Condi Alac Willbender would be able to take Amplified Wrath, which isn't as good as on Condi WB, due to the need of using the Resolve virtue for alac uptime.

If the relative damage between Alac and pure DPS gets too close, just buff Tyrant's Momentum, and if Willbender's damage overall gets too high, just nerf Lethal Tempo.

Heal Alac Willbender would be able to take Indomitable Courage and spice things up with stab coverage, due to be able to replace the need for SYG by using the Courage virtue instead. HAW would most likely be overlooked in favor of HFB anyway, due to the lack of tomes

 

As a PvE player, there is 1 reason I see not to default PP to party-wide alac, and that would be the fact that Battle Presence would do nothing on Willbender

[Falseprophet.1502]

I agree with your Battle Presence change. This is terrible design. It's been an issue since they did the livestream for EOD specs last year. If alacrity WB is ever moved out of a meme-tier support, you cannot have an elite specialization boon distribution tied to a completely different specialization (Virtues). No other profession has to deal with this.

 

But, this, is a horrible idea/suggestion because it has implications for the ENTIRE specialization. We're currently dealing where one build (condi WB) truly benefits from these two modifiers. Buffing or nerfing these two will only make things worse. 

3 minutes ago, Sagedurk.7358 said:

 

If the relative damage between Alac and pure DPS gets too close, just buff Tyrant's Momentum, and if Willbender's damage overall gets too high, just nerf Lethal Tempo.

 

 

The recent pass where they buffed Lethal Tempo and Tyrant's Momentum was much more of a buff for the condi variant than it was for power. Power DPS Willbender needs the following things to have it introduced to be competitive in the current PvE meta:

 

• Offhand sword needs to be substantially buffed and dual attacks while using an offhand sword only needs to be implemented.
• Holy Reckoning needs to be reworked to better support power builds. This needs to reduce the CD of Rushing Justice or extend the Justice buff by four seconds (or you can just remove the penalty on Tyrant's Momentum, you already are forced to take this as a power/condi WB). You simply cannot maintain Rushing Justice consistently when you run Radiance/Zeal. Anything that positively improves power damage in this trait would be monumentally better. Power WB builds should not rely on Restorative Virtues like it does now.
• The buff to Heaven's Palm was not enough. The power coefficient needs to be improved. The cast time needs to be reduced and extend whatever virtue effect you're currently using to continually proc WB flames.
• Willbender Flames need higher power damage coefficient tweaking. This can be done through Power for Power. 

 

[MagicBot.1570]

PvE Power Wb desperately needs a sword-focused gameplay or it will keep on having zero identity.

 

Rushing Justice: 1.5 → 3

Willbender Flames: .22 → .9

Executioner's Calling: .75 + 2.5 → 1.5 + 4

Advance Strike: 2 → 3

 

Zealot's Defense: 4.8 → 5.6

 

Holy Reckoning: Might is shared with allies.

 

Virtues' Unscathed Contenter still needs a rework. Core Greatsword could use slight buffs too.

 

I don't understand why such simple changes are still not considered. PvE Willbender was almost unchanged since its inception

Edited December 30, 2022 by MagicBot.1570

[otto.5684]

beside much of what already been said, the trait line is biggest culprit in terms of WB issues. Grand master traits are pretty bad. Aside from Tyrant Momentum, the other 2 are not only bad, they make the respective virtues worse. It is a self own. In addition, having every single major master and grand master trait, revolving around virtues, is terrible design. The major master is more than enough.

Before jumping to changes, based on WB design, I assume Anet wants it do 2 things, with 3rd as a maybe:

Condi dps

Power dps

Alacrity support, maybe.

In pve, it only does 1 of these roles successfully; condi dps. Nothing else works. Assuming it is supposed to do all 3 roles in pve:

First, OH sword needs a buff.

Second, utilities need a buff. Flash Combo and Heavens Palm in particular. Flash Combo has long CD and mid damage. Heavens Palm has a ridiculously long cast time and not much damage.

Third, scrap phoenix protocol and deathless courage. Holy Reckoning, activating a virtue will also provide 2 sec of alacrity. Wait this is heresy?! It is not. Having an elite with access to personal alacrity or quickness is not uncommon. Example, FB can have high uptime on quickness without any allies contributions. Vindicator and Herald can obtain close to 100% quickness uptime, mechanist with alacrity and so on.

Then for the 2 grand master traits, one should buff power damage. Personally, I think it should focus on swords and discourage using GS, since GS is used in every other power build. Something akin of while having main sword equipped gain 200 power and ferocity and lose 200 power and ferocity when equipping other 2 handed weapons. +100 power and ferocity for OH. Possibly reduce OH sword CD by 20% as well. Whatever to make sword focus + sword sword, the meta power build for WB.

The last grand master should depend on if alacrity support should be a thing or not. If it is, then make this trait duration increases alacrity provided by virtues by 1 additional sec and share all boons obtained via virtues with 5 allies in 600 range. If alacrity support is not to be a thing, this trait should be some sort of support or survivability trait.

Related to power build, Unscathed Contender, for the love of Kormir, scrap this trait. It does not work in pve or pvp. It never did and never will. Not getting hit is impossible, and aegis is not spammable anyway. And it is considered part of WB and core power dps, so it needs to work. Give us something that consistently buffs power damage. It does not have to be creative, just constant and consistent. 200 ferocity while having fury, or something similar. Interesting? No. Does it work? Yes.

Talking slightly about pvp, alacrity duration will need to be cut. In addition, for condi WB to work, justice CD has to be lower. It should match pve, and adjust whatever else need to be adjusted to balance it out.

Edited December 31, 2022 by otto.5684

[Thalanox.7281]

On 12/14/2022 at 3:44 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

(WHY DO CC  SKILLS FREEZE US IN THE AIR BTW??)

Probably because the game engine doesn't actually move you in the air. It's just a canned animation that maybe gives you immunity to standard attacks (to model your character being in the air), but doesn't give you immunity to spell attacks, or radiant explosion effects. It's the same reason we have a walking animation for movement instead of a full physics simulation for how the character's limbs move and whether they can remain balanced. Games like Qwop (walking simulator) and Toribash (Turn based fighting game where you control individual muscle groups on a 3d model and the game simulates 10 seconds of animation. Once someone wins, it plays the whole animation you and your partner (includes online play!) made, which is usually only a couple of seconds.) have done, and they do it specifically because it is very difficult to do.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/30/2022 at 7:12 PM, Thalanox.7281 said:

Probably because the game engine doesn't actually move you in the air. It's just a canned animation that maybe gives you immunity to standard attacks (to model your character being in the air), but doesn't give you immunity to spell attacks, or radiant explosion effects. It's the same reason we have a walking animation for movement instead of a full physics simulation for how the character's limbs move and whether they can remain balanced. Games like Qwop (walking simulator) and Toribash (Turn based fighting game where you control individual muscle groups on a 3d model and the game simulates 10 seconds of animation. Once someone wins, it plays the whole animation you and your partner (includes online play!) made, which is usually only a couple of seconds.) have done, and they do it specifically because it is very difficult to do.

Hmmm, that explains a lot actually. Cause on my DH, when I use Wings of Resolve actively (jump and land with a heal), it can get interrupted as well, which is really sucky. But ok, back to the WB 🙂

[Saiyan.1704]

On another note... F3 says "teleport" similiar to the tool tip on Judges Intervention yet Line of Sight is required... it feels terrible spamming F3 on a ledge only for it to say "LoS cannot teleport". This is increasingly frustrating in clutch situations... it's one of the only shadowstep ability that requires LoS to use.

Judges, sword#2, sword#4, and Flash Combo does not require LoS to use...

Edited January 7, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

20 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

On another note... F3 says "teleport" similiar to the tool tip on Judges Intervention yet Line of Sight is required... it feels terrible spamming F3 on a ledge only for it to say "LoS cannot teleport". This is increasingly frustrating in clutch situations... it's one of the only shadowstep ability that requires LoS to use.

Judges, sword#2, sword#4, and Flash Combo does not require LoS to use...

Eh that's how all ground target ports work, it's the tradeoff of being able to freely control where u want to go instead of only being able to port towards an enemy. 

The bigger problem with WB (and guard in general) is having no sticking power. Sure u can port to the enemy, but then as ur trying to cast your damaging abilities (most of which have self-roots and self-slows attached) the target simply w keys away from you and takes 0 dmg. One long CD immob on sw5 isn't enough; we need cripple/chill in our kit and to not have our primary dmg sources all be self-roots/slows

Edited January 7, 2023 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597