(PvP) Bring Back Bladesworn/ Give Zerker More Functionality/ Buff Arms/ Give Rifle another Pass at Reworks

[Yerlock.4678]

Bring back BS, allow it to not require shouts to be useful. Buffing ARMS would give a niche to BS in my opinion that would be well warranted. 

 

Speaking of, Buff ARMS.

 

Strength is outperformed by Defense in every build atm. While Hammer could use a small shave, in reality Strength needs more survivability.

Buff Might makes Right to 100 HP per stack of Might, Brave Stride buff the duration of Stab to 3 seconds. 

 

Give Berzerker skills more love. One pass helped but it wasn't nearly enough. Also passive adrenaline while in Berzerk mode.

Power Zerker in particular is struggling against Condi. 

 

Also Rifle still feels awkward to play and needs more QoL. Cleaning up animations and giving more synergy with other skills (the dreaded throw bolas as an example) would help.

 

I'm shouting these in an empty theatre I know but just has to be said.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

MMR getting 100 hp healing.

BP proccing on use.

These would be a start on Strength. 

Brave Stride duration increase would be good.

Peak performance buff increased would be good.

For Arms Burst Precision needs to linger for a duration based on adrenaline used.

There needs to be more conditions within the trait line as well.

 

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Been a while hmm, game rly stagnating rn..

From a couple of runs I did in WvW, I'd ask a shift of resources to be put into the other banners, since tactics is too strong right now, might be stronger than the elite considering the finisher can be blinded.

First, offenssive banners should get a 900 drop range.

I'd ask for Banner of Strength to have more stacks of might applied (3 per pulse) and for it to also daze in 2 pulses, 1 on drop and 1 on the first pulse for 1 sec each. More reliable interruption and maybe worth using offensively. Power coeff isn't bad, could be better.

Discipline is really bad. I'm sure PvE and some niche competetive condi build can make use of the bleeds, but it just isn't a good option. Stick with fury as the boon given (with higher duration per pulse) and have it apply an initial immob for 3 seconds on drop, with each pulse proccing cripple and a bleed. That would make it a very good ranged aoe soft cc alternative that warrior could rly use.

That's abotu it, I got bored again. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, gmmg.9210 said:

Bring back BS, allow it to not require shouts to be useful. Buffing ARMS would give a niche to BS in my opinion that would be well warranted. 

 

Speaking of, Buff ARMS.

 

Strength is outperformed by Defense in every build atm. While Hammer could use a small shave, in reality Strength needs more survivability.

Buff Might makes Right to 100 HP per stack of Might, Brave Stride buff the duration of Stab to 3 seconds. 

 

Give Berzerker skills more love. One pass helped but it wasn't nearly enough. Also passive adrenaline while in Berzerk mode.

Power Zerker in particular is struggling against Condi. 

 

Also Rifle still feels awkward to play and needs more QoL. Cleaning up animations and giving more synergy with other skills (the dreaded throw bolas as an example) would help.

 

I'm shouting these in an empty theatre I know but just has to be said.

I was actually just playing around with BS today and put together something that seems to work pretty well. Not S tier or anything, but pretty darn solid for casual play.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKAFcE2ZXZpsKWIDj5iFtzasE-zZILjGTgMLATGAA

 

Between signet of stamina and the vigor from WH 5, you have dodges for days...meaning really high resistance up time thanks to Resilient Roll.

 

You are also very resistant to condi between SIO, SoS, WH5, and Cleansing Ire.

 

You're even fairly tanky thanks to high protection up time. And of course you have loads of healing and barrier application.

 

The damage is surprisingly good, even though you don't have much might. You have tons of ferocity, tho, and inflict a lot of vulnerability so your follow up attacks to a successful DS really slaps. You also benefit from fairly good Fury uptime which improves your DPS significantly as well.

 

Only real weakness is lack of blocks and no on-demand stability. You can take Dolyak signet instead of SoS; you can also take shield or OH sword over WH, although your mobility suffers if you do that.

 

Try it out! I think you might enjoy it.

 

[Hotride.2187]

I assume they'll nerf defense instead of buffing str. But more healing on might gain would be welcome.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I assume they'll nerf defense instead of buffing str. But more healing on might gain would be welcome.

I sure hope they don't nerf defense. SpB is the only thing doing well right now. That would be a classic case of "nerfing Core to target the problematic elite spec" methodology.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I sure hope they don't nerf defense. SpB is the only thing doing well right now. That would be a classic case of "nerfing Core to target the problematic elite spec" methodology.

I'm not even convinced that there is anything problematic yet, just people who are refusing to adjust their builds for the meta.

[Fueki.4753]

I'd rather not see them "bring back" Junksworn, as I consider it the worst part of Warrior.

However, buffing core parts of Warrior is what they should do.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Psycoprophet.8107]

One hand land spear so can use shield off hand with a flip skill on 3rd skill. Rework bow to actually function at least something close to what a warrior in combat would look like(ranger lb), currently war lb is more like a fire mage with a bow transmoged over his staff. Add more interactive utility skills than stands and shouts and warrior would be awesome.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Fueki.4753]

13 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Rework bow to actually function at least something close to what a warrior in combat would look like(ranger lb), currently war lb is more like a fire mage with a bow transmoged over his staff. Add more interactive utility skills than stands and shouts and warrior would be awesome.

Longbow is supposed to be a condition weapon.

Reworking it into yet another subpar power weapon like Rifle would be nothing but detrimental.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Psycoprophet.8107]

19 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Longbow is supposed to be a condition weapon.

Reworking it into yet another subpar power weapon like Rifle would be nothing but detrimental.

I get what ur saying but can u honestly say that warrior bow builds wouldn't see 10x more play if the bow was designed closer to ranger bow?  If lb was designed to be a fun and effective ranged weapon I don't think players would be upset that it was power, more so they would be happy it's actually a good weapon and fun to use. Over the years bow on warrior has seen very little use compared to its other weapons and for good reason. Having all the basses covered on what kind of weapon damage warrior has means little if half of them arnt used, don't match the class theme and are not fun to use.

Warrior has torch.....lmao the berserker weapon  for condies :).

Edited December 23, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Fueki.4753]

1 minute ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I get what ur saying but can u honestly say that warrior bow builds wouldn't see 10x more play if the bow was designed closer to ranger bow?  If lb was designed to be a fun and effective ranged weapon I don't think players would be upset that it was power, more so they would be happy it's actually a good weapon and fun to use. Over the years bow on warrior has seen very little use compared to its other weapons and for good reason. Having all the basses covered on what kind of weapon damage warrior has means little if half of them arnt used, don't match the class theme and are not fun to use.

Warrior has torch.....lmao the berserker weapon  for condies :).

There's no guarantee that it'd be any more effective that Rifle after a rework and fun is subjective. I enjoy the current version of Warrior's Longbow far more than Ranger's stale pew pew. Also, I think that Torch only needs better numbers but plays just fine.

That aside, if they can't even be bothered to remove Hundred Blades' selfroot or turn Warrior's swords into proper condition weapons, I doubt they'd bother completely reworking the Longbow. Even the Rifle "rework" only consisted of giving it ammunitions, causing it to require more button presses and thus more time to deal the same damage.

[Hotride.2187]

23 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I sure hope they don't nerf defense. SpB is the only thing doing well right now. That would be a classic case of "nerfing Core to target the problematic elite spec" methodology.

I dont know about that, every war I run into in conquest is running defense now.

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I dont know about that, every war I run into in conquest is running defense now.

And how many of them are Spellbreakers?

And how many non-Spellbreaker Warriors using Defence are actually challenging to you? I doubt they are all that many.

Currently, Spellbreaker is the only decent way to play Warrior in sPvP, the rest is horribly underperforming (unless played by excellent players that overcome the horrible undertuning with raw skill).

And even Spellbreakers become less challenging by the day, as people get used to them and know how to fight them.

Unless Arenanet feels the absolute need of putting even the one decent one-trick-pony of Warrior under the bus, there's is no reason or need to nerf Warrior in any capacity.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

6 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I dont know about that, every war I run into in conquest is running defense now.

That doesn't mean Defense is overpowered, tho. Spellbreaker is the only thing that is "meta" or potentially "over performing" (I don't think it's any better than Vindi or cata or tempest or any of the other meta picks, but w/e). So if any nerfs are deserved at all, they should be toward SpB and NOT anything core warrior.

 

The Defense rework was really good overall, and the value it provides is just hard to pass up. However, I think that says more about Warrior's other trait lines being underperforming than it does about Defense being "OP".  Defense should be the standard that rest of the trait lines are buffed to match. That goes for all professions, btw...every trait line should bring a lot of potential value and should be a viable pick in its own right. We're a long ways off from that, ofc, but that's where we should be trying to reach.

 

Also, other professions have "mandatory" or "best-in-slot" trait lines too: Wilderness Survival for Rangers, Shadow Arts for Thieves, etc. That just speaks to sustain being really important in competitive modes; that's not in itself a bad thing. Warrior struggles more than others because Discipline is also mandatory, and that really limits build diversity.

[oscuro.9720]

4 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

That doesn't mean Defense is overpowered, tho. Spellbreaker is the only thing that is "meta" or potentially "over performing" (I don't think it's any better than Vindi or cata or tempest or any of the other meta picks, but w/e). So if any nerfs are deserved at all, they should be toward SpB and NOT anything core warrior..

What I believe is the part that gets to people is that those other classes perform better across the game mode, or really any competitive group content, but in an isolated encounter, spellbreaker has some form of counter to many classes. I don’t personally see this as a problem, since it’s utility in groups is not particularly high outside hammer, which has very easy counter play. Though I’m biased towards spell.

Also many of the “meta” builds right now for spell function by hard countering something that is meta/popular, and being countered by something that is less meta/less popular, at least from my observations. But I haven’t been doing much group content lately so I could very well be mistaken.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

22 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

What I believe is the part that gets to people is that those other classes perform better across the game mode, or really any competitive group content, but in an isolated encounter, spellbreaker has some form of counter to many classes. I don’t personally see this as a problem, since it’s utility in groups is not particularly high outside hammer, which has very easy counter play. Though I’m biased towards spell.

Also many of the “meta” builds right now for spell function by hard countering something that is meta/popular, and being countered by something that is less meta/less popular, at least from my observations. But I haven’t been doing much group content lately so I could very well be mistaken.

Yeah I agree with you. The meta is shifting a lot rn it seems...last month, condibreaker was all the rage, but this month Defense hammerbreaker has taken center stage (which is weird to me bc hammerbreaker is a much more intuitively obvious build for SpB than condibreaker, but w/e...). I think people are still learning how to build their comp to counter it.

 

My prediction is that ranged pressure classes like Deadeye and some ranger builds will see a resurgence since being kited and worn down from range is probably hammerbreaker's biggest weakness.

[Yerlock.4678]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:12 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

MMR getting 100 hp healing.

BP proccing on use.

These would be a start on Strength. 

Brave Stride duration increase would be good.

Peak performance buff increased would be good.

For Arms Burst Precision needs to linger for a duration based on adrenaline used.

There needs to be more conditions within the trait line as well.

 

 

Oh BP proccing on use is a good one. I never liked the idea of too much damage coming after burst skills. It should work for that initial burst, as well as a few seconds following it.

[oscuro.9720]

3 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Yeah I agree with you. The meta is shifting a lot rn it seems...last month, condibreaker was all the rage, but this month Defense hammerbreaker has taken center stage (which is weird to me bc hammerbreaker is a much more intuitively obvious build for SpB than condibreaker, but w/e...). I think people are still learning how to build their comp to counter it.

 

My prediction is that ranged pressure classes like Deadeye and some ranger builds will see a resurgence since being kited and worn down from range is probably hammerbreaker's biggest weakness.

What’s happening is kind of what’s supposed to happen when things change; new good builds emerge that counter existing builds, builds that counter those arise and drive them away, and so on, until some state of equilibrium is reached. Right now spell has a lot of tools to counter classes, but they are dispersed across different builds, as well as dagger+gs which, imo, still has the highest ceiling out of all the Warrior builds (note, just my opinion, again, I very well could be wrong). 

I will say that I think some of the 2 shot potential on hammer is a bit over the top. I think a slight reduction of the strength of hammer 2 (and a redistribution of that into the rest of hammers kit), and perhaps added CD to the stability-on-cc trait would be reasonable if the build continues to over perform and players are entirely unable to adapt. As for condi breaker, idk. Have not played it and have not fought anyone good playing it, so I can’t say anything about it really. 
I agree with you, high-pressure range classes will likely start to become more prevalent to pick apart Warrior, i just don’t know how well they will perform against other classes/builds on other professions.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

What’s happening is kind of what’s supposed to happen when things change; new good builds emerge that counter existing builds, builds that counter those arise and drive them away, and so on, until some state of equilibrium is reached. Right now spell has a lot of tools to counter classes, but they are dispersed across different builds, as well as dagger+gs which, imo, still has the highest ceiling out of all the Warrior builds (note, just my opinion, again, I very well could be wrong). 

I will say that I think some of the 2 shot potential on hammer is a bit over the top. I think a slight reduction of the strength of hammer 2 (and a redistribution of that into the rest of hammers kit), and perhaps added CD to the stability-on-cc trait would be reasonable if the build continues to over perform and players are entirely unable to adapt. As for condi breaker, idk. Have not played it and have not fought anyone good playing it, so I can’t say anything about it really. 
I agree with you, high-pressure range classes will likely start to become more prevalent to pick apart Warrior, i just don’t know how well they will perform against other classes/builds on other professions.

Take 0.25 of the base coefficient on Fierce Block and put it onto Staggering Blow and Earthshaker.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

@oscuro.9720 @Lan Deathrider.5910 If fierce blow gets its damage reduced, the other hammer skills definitely need some love.

 

The problem with hammer is that it's a one trick pony: if you can land a CC into FB, you do tons of damage; if you can't, you do almost no damage at all. So if FB gets its damage nerfed, they should probably give a second ammo charge to hammer shock so that hammer is less all-or-nothing and can provide more sustained damage output.

 

Also, Backbreaker should really be something more than a CC that is so ponderous that it actually requires another CC first in order to land it.

Edited December 25, 2022 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

@oscuro.9720 @Lan Deathrider.5910 If fierce blow gets its damage reduced, the other hammer skills definitely need some love.

 

The problem with hammer is that it's a one trick pony: if you can land a CC into FB, you do tons of damage; if you can't, you do almost no damage at all. So if FB gets its damage nerfed, they should probably give a second ammo charge to hammer shock so that hammer is less all-or-nothing and can provide more sustained damage output.

 

Also, Backbreaker should really be something more than a CC that is so ponderous that it actually requires another CC first in order to land it.

Thats why I said move the coefficient directly over.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Thats why I said move the coefficient directly over.

I'm agreeing with you 😅 

Although I think a second hammer shock might be better in the long run, adding dmg to earth shaker would be fine too.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 12/23/2022 at 1:33 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

I assume they'll nerf defense instead of buffing str. But more healing on might gain would be welcome.

 

Yep

 

On 12/23/2022 at 7:20 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm not even convinced that there is anything problematic yet, just people who are refusing to adjust their builds for the meta.

 

Yep

 

On 12/22/2022 at 4:28 PM, gmmg.9210 said:

Bring back BS, allow it to not require shouts to be useful. Buffing ARMS would give a niche to BS in my opinion that would be well warranted. 

 

Speaking of, Buff ARMS.

 

Strength is outperformed by Defense in every build atm. While Hammer could use a small shave, in reality Strength needs more survivability.

Buff Might makes Right to 100 HP per stack of Might, Brave Stride buff the duration of Stab to 3 seconds. 

 

Give Berzerker skills more love. One pass helped but it wasn't nearly enough. Also passive adrenaline while in Berzerk mode.

Power Zerker in particular is struggling against Condi. 

 

Also Rifle still feels awkward to play and needs more QoL. Cleaning up animations and giving more synergy with other skills (the dreaded throw bolas as an example) would help.

 

I'm shouting these in an empty theatre I know but just has to be said.

 

Yep

[Dadnir.5038]

From my point of view the first very necessary thing that would be needed to be done for Bladesworn... is to make sure that the minimum damage of the burst don't deal less damage than an AA.