spell breaker

[Sansar.1302]

To powerful in 1v1s 😞

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

My core necro begs to differ.

That being said it's disgusting when used as +1 on a sidenode. Spellbreaker keeps cc'ing the enemy and is not easy to get rid of, while his buddy pours the damage..

Edited January 1, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Rip/corrupt the stability then lol at them as you CC lock them instead.

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Rip/corrupt the stability then lol at them as you CC lock them instead.

Some classes have no boonrip or just really limited sources.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

32 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Some classes have no boonrip or just really limited sources.

True, one that I know of can perma immob a warrior after burning through their condition cleanses on top of have some of the most evades available, another has blinds, blocks, invulns, stability out the kitten, and it's own CC to counter the warrior, and two that can evade spam, blind, and CC lock the warrior in return.

It really is the situation where the meta has changed, and people are refusing to change with it and are QQing instead on the forums. Feb2020 left warrior without anything to move towards to cope during that meta while this current meta still has plenty of room for the other professions to change their builds to cope with warrior that got a few buffs.

[Zuko.7132]

To be fair stalwart strength is a strong trait. But it is infinitely more counterable than staunch auras due to the requirement of landing a cc. However, if a war takes stalwart strength it will lose to condi duelists, so I don’t think it’s too big of an issue. Especially because stalwart strength is run with hammer which means the war likely isn’t running resistance dodge either.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

34 minutes ago, Zuko.7132 said:

To be fair stalwart strength is a strong trait. But it is infinitely more counterable than staunch auras due to the requirement of landing a cc. However, if a war takes stalwart strength it will lose to condi duelists, so I don’t think it’s too big of an issue. Especially because stalwart strength is run with hammer which means the war likely isn’t running resistance dodge either.

This. People act like SS is god-tier but taking it entails serious vulnerability to condi (which is fine, because tradeoffs are and should be a thing). It's a strong and valuable trait, but it is not OP or uncountable.

 

I also very much worry that any heavy handed nerf will turn it into a useless stab trait like brave stride. That should be avoided at all costs. I don't think there is much room to tinker with the ICD or stab duration before the trait becomes useless (or at least decidedly less valuable than the other 2 GM traits and therefore never taken).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

This. People act like SS is god-tier but taking it entails serious vulnerability to condi (which is fine, because tradeoffs are and should be a thing). It's a strong and valuable trait, but it is not OP or uncountable.

Exactly. See my previous post elsewhere on Scissors clutching their pearls when Rock tells them to change their build.

22 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I also very much worry that any heavy handed nerf will turn it into a useless stab trait like brave stride. That should be avoided at all costs. I don't think there is much room to tinker with the ICD or stab duration before the trait becomes useless (or at least decidedly less valuable than the other 2 GM traits and therefore never taken).

It's a GM trait. It's power level is right. Most of our CCs are highly telegraphed with the exception of FC, but that is a spellbreaker issue not a core warrior issue. Even then FC itself grants Stability, so its not like that combo is inherently strong together.

[Zekent.3652]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Some classes have no boonrip or just really limited sources.

I don't want to be the "lawyer of the devil" here, spellbreaker is 100% obnoxious right now, but what you said is a lie and other classes doesn't really depends on CC chains as much as warrior needs to kill something, unless you're playing Bladesworn, which is on a bad state.

[Dr Meta.3158]

Stalwart strength is fine. The only problem is spellbreaker itself and solely due to full counter.

Also you'll do a better boon removal job with a chronomancer than a necromancer.

[Kodama.6453]

4 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

I don't want to be the "lawyer of the devil" here, spellbreaker is 100% obnoxious right now, but what you said is a lie and other classes doesn't really depends on CC chains as much as warrior needs to kill something, unless you're playing Bladesworn, which is on a bad state.

Explain why you think what I said there is a lie, please.

[Zekent.3652]

46 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Explain why you think what I said there is a lie, please.

 

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Some classes have no boonrip or just really limited sources.

This, all classes got boonrip and if their build doesn't have boonstrip, then a sigil, and if still not a viable choice, other classes doesn't really have limited resources.

-A rev doesn't needs to wait for Warr's stability to kill them because their spike damage doesn't depends on landing CCs unlike most of warrior viable builds.

[Kodama.6453]

11 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

This, all classes got boonrip and if their build doesn't have boonstrip, then a sigil, and if still not a viable choice, other classes doesn't really have limited resources.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only sigil which helps removing boons in PvP is the sigil of absorption, is it not? Which just triggers on interrupting enemies.

The context has been that you are supposed to remove the stability of the warrior.... guess what, you can't interrupt an enemy with stability, so sigil of absorption doesn't help.

And there are classes with no own boonrip from traits or skills. Elementalist and guardian both have no way to remove boons outside of sigils (and as mentioned, the boonsteal sigil doesn't work against an enemy with stability!).

Engineer is also really limited when it comes to boonrip. The only engineer skill which removes boons is throw mine, which has a 30 seconds cooldown in PvP to remove 3 boons. Not to mention that the skill is.... really not good in PvP, so it is basically never taken.

So I don't see where I lied. Elementalist and guardian have no boonrip to take away the stability of a warrior. Engineer has one boonrip ability which is bad in PvP, making them lack options to remove boons as well. There are no sigils which help you remove stability in PvP.

[Zekent.3652]

30 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only sigil which helps removing boons in PvP is the sigil of absorption, is it not? Which just triggers on interrupting enemies.

The context has been that you are supposed to remove the stability of the warrior.... guess what, you can't interrupt an enemy with stability, so sigil of absorption doesn't help.

And there are classes with no own boonrip from traits or skills. Elementalist and guardian both have no way to remove boons outside of sigils (and as mentioned, the boonsteal sigil doesn't work against an enemy with stability!).

Engineer is also really limited when it comes to boonrip. The only engineer skill which removes boons is throw mine, which has a 30 seconds cooldown in PvP to remove 3 boons. Not to mention that the skill is.... really not good in PvP, so it is basically never taken.

So I don't see where I lied. Elementalist and guardian have no boonrip to take away the stability of a warrior. Engineer has one boonrip ability which is bad in PvP, making them lack options to remove boons as well. There are no sigils which help you remove stability in PvP.

On that case, use revocation, you can even interrupt a Full Counter with that, and... the classes that u mentioned, are they really limited in resources? 2 of them are meta, holo and catalyst, and guardian really hard counters warr's CCs.

Edit: not just 2, ALL 3 OF THEM are META.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[Dr Meta.3158]

In pvp there is a sigil that just removed a boon on hit every 10 seconds but if you're actually relying on that sigil then... well that's pretty funny.

[Hotride.2187]

6 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Stalwart strength is fine. The only problem is spellbreaker itself and solely due to full counter.

Also you'll do a better boon removal job with a chronomancer than a necromancer.

I dont know how many times I have to read this. Somehow FC was not pushing spb into meta for nearly 3 years. And now, a few reworks later (defense, hammer, bow, banners) its the problem?

Its really hilarious to read this, every conquest game and every wvw duel I have to deal with the multitude of BS from other professions (I dont run defense, hammer, condi, banners, I run the same dagger str build as before without even endure pain). But nooooooo FC is like the broken skill. Get a grip, everything in the meta has something broken. Often multiple things.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

21 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I dont know how many times I have to read this. Somehow FC was not pushing spb into meta for nearly 3 years. And now, a few reworks later (defense, hammer, bow, banners) its the problem?

Its really hilarious to read this, every conquest game and every wvw duel I have to deal with the multitude of BS from other professions (I dont run defense, hammer, condi, banners, I run the same dagger str build as before without even endure pain). But nooooooo FC is like the broken skill. Get a grip, everything in the meta has something broken. Often multiple things.

He's right, tho, bro. FC is super strong and is the reason SpB is performing so well.

 

A non-exhaustive list of it's benefits:

-An evade, source of Stab, and 1.5s daze on FC itself

 

-refreshes burst skills (a massive part of SpB's offense)

 

-triggers burst related traits, most notably Adrenal Healing and Cleansing Ire in the current meta

 

-applies weakness (cull the weak), immobilize (no escape), and slow and cripple (slow counter)

 

-Grants adrenaline if you are running Merciless Hammer

 

-Grants resistance (revenge counter) or applies magebane tether

 

-removes boons

 

FC has always carried SpB. Even back before EoD and the Defense reworks and weapon buffs, SpB was still "the most viable" warrior pick. Then, with the new Defense line and buffs to attackers insight, dagger, and hammer, SpB was able to put all the pieces together to yield maximal value. And it does so in a way that no other warrior spec can duplicate, which is why it is still grossly outperforming other warrior builds.

 

To be clear, I'm not calling for massive nerfs (or any nerfs at all, really). SpB is really strong rn, but so is a  bunch of other stuff, especially cata, tempest, and vindicator. If we decide that all the S tier stuff needs to come down a notch, that's fine by me--as long as everything goes down together. It would be ridiculous to single out SpB as "the" problem in PvP that needs to be fixed.

[Zekent.3652]

 

1 minute ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

He's right, tho, bro. FC is super strong and is the reason SpB is performing so well.

 

A non-exhaustive list of it's benefits:

-An evade, source of Stab, and 1.5s daze on FC itself

 

-refreshes burst skills (a massive part of SpB's offense)

 

-triggers burst related traits, most notably Adrenal Healing and Cleansing Ire in the current meta

 

-applies weakness (cull the weak), immobilize (no escape), and slow and cripple (slow counter)

 

-Grants adrenaline if you are running Merciless Hammer

 

-Grants resistance (revenge counter) or applies magebane tether

 

-removes boons

 

FC has always carried SpB. Even back before EoD and the Defense reworks and weapon buffs, SpB was still "the most viable" warrior pick. Then, with the new Defense line and buffs to attackers insight, dagger, and hammer, SpB was able to put all the pieces together to yield maximal value. And it does so in a way that no other warrior spec can duplicate, which is why it is still grossly outperforming other warrior builds.

 

To be clear, I'm not calling for massive nerfs (or any nerfs at all, really). SpB is really strong rn, but so is a  bunch of other stuff, especially cata, tempest, and vindicator. If we decide that all the S tier stuff needs to come down a notch, that's fine by me--as long as everything goes down together. It would be ridiculous to single out SpB as "the" problem in PvP that needs to be fixed.

Just increase FC CD if you're running Defense tbh, not the first time that they do something similar, when spb is overperforming, Defense always was there, Strength Spellbreaker is not even close to be that strong.

[Zekent.3652]

6 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

It would be ridiculous to single out SpB as "the" problem in PvP that needs to be fixed.

About this, that's the average forum user whenever warrior is overperforming, they ignore everything else, because idk, they might not like warrior being strong and just other classes are allowed to be strong.

Remember when spb was op? but, op for real years ago, lasted a few months and then u got YEARS of OP Mirage and Weaver being ignored.

[Dadnir.5038]

11 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Some classes have no boonrip or just really limited sources.

Well, some time it would also be nice to see people accept that their class or build are just hard countered by what they face. The sPvP subforum would probably be very quiet if it happened. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

23 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, some time it would also be nice to see people accept that their class or build are just hard countered by what they face. The sPvP subforum would probably be very quiet if it happened. 

That mindset works quite well in overwatch. You can just switch characters during the match.

[Kodama.6453]

9 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

On that case, use revocation, you can even interrupt a Full Counter with that, and... the classes that u mentioned, are they really limited in resources? 2 of them are meta, holo and catalyst, and guardian really hard counters warr's CCs.

Edit: not just 2, ALL 3 OF THEM are META.

Ah, that's where the misunderstanding was.

I was not saying "these classes have limited resources" (because, honestly, what would that even mean?). I was saying "Some classes have no boonrip at all and some other classes have just very limited sources (of boonrip)"

Elementalist and guardian belong in the first category, they have no inherent boonrip on their own in traits and skills.
Engineer belongs in the second category, since it has just one skill that removes boons (throw mine) and that skill is currently not really viable in PvP.

[Hotride.2187]

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

FC has always carried SpB. Even back before EoD and the Defense reworks and weapon buffs, SpB was still "the most viable" warrior pick. Then, with the new Defense line and buffs to attackers insight, dagger, and hammer, SpB was able to put all the pieces together to yield maximal value. And it does so in a way that no other warrior spec can duplicate, which is why it is still grossly outperforming other warrior builds.

And what other builds exactly are you using to compare?

Berserker, which was just nuked out of existence the moment it was seen (unless condi, where you could run better builds on other professions)?

Core, where the only professions that were viable as core were guard and necro?

Not a tall bar to say "spb did better".

Or bladesworn, prenerfs? That just ran you over if you were on spb, due to not being able to get its hp below 50%?

No idea what you think can carry spb other than dagger and FC. Thats the only thing it brought to the table pre-eod, along with magebane tether vs thief. Its not like core war utils and weapons did anything.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Dr Meta.3158]

The difference between stunbreaking and blocking/avoiding an incoming burst and stunbreaking and immediately full countering a burst, getting  resistance, stability, adrenal health, stacking slow, cripple and any other conditions on yourself on the enemy while ignoring conditions on yourself from there allowing you to proceed to chain stun as any warrior would instead of having to either make space or try to counter CC with a slower, more reactable skill.

This all proceeds into the correct play against spellbreaker is constantly kiting them and making them use their mobility + CC/damage skills to gap closer, dodging CCs, CCing them back then immediately kiting against so you don't get full countered. All of this leading to a never ending fight because you can't out damage their sustain playing that way and you can take them head on otherwise like you could any other warrior spec because even with essentially at least two entire traitlines dedicated to defense, they will both out-damage and out-sustain you in a straight on fight especially as you spend most of it unable to counterplay. And the issue of anticounterplay is the same ordeal with every other overperforming spec now and has ever existed, not just spellbreaker.

As I've said many, many, many times now across threads. Its all due to full counter. That's why no one cares about nor is playing any other warrior build. Any other warrior even with how pushed the defense traitline is now, will still die because they can be easily counterplayed. But not spellbreaker because, in case you missed it, of full counter. And any design decision affecting warrior as a whole must always take into consideration, full counter. 

And yes, one skill makes that much of a difference. Look at what the return/addition of distortion did to chronomancer/virtuoso. Another anti-counterplay skill that allows you to wreck havoc with no consequences. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

 

Just increase FC CD if you're running Defense tbh, not the first time that they do something similar, when spb is overperforming, Defense always was there, Strength Spellbreaker is not even close to be that strong.

No. There is a bug to Versatile Power that gives it ~2 extra seconds of CD reduction. That is what needs fixing.