Mallyx in WvW

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I am no fan of fighting against cele builds and condi revs. 

But I see value in Mallyx Renegade. Value that got nerfed. 

The idea here is simple: Banish Enchantment is quite literally the skill that makes or breaks a boonrip Rev. 

Rev has an abundance of roles currently in wvw, you can roll a heal Vindi, hamm backliner Herald/Vindi. It's more than other classes have in the meta and they are all 3 useful builds. 

But since boonrip is a role that suffers rn and we need more alternatives imo, Renegade with Mallyx could fill that role without being too niche and by capitalizing on the power dmg of the spec, since staff and shortbow are not really potent dmg weapons in largescale and sigil of absorption got nerfed considerably. 

Outside of the obvious choice of undoing the energy cost nerf on Banish Enchantment, what other change do you think could happen within Mallyx or Corruption that could benefit a largescale boonrip role without creating a smallscale nightmare? 

P. S. Corruption is a perfect line to cook some type of boon corrupt in the form of Call of the Demon I think, where could that fit? Grandmaster that cleanses instead steals boons aoe? 

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

The problem with this is that this starts stepping into necro territory. 
 

however, I do agree that Banish Enchantment needs an energy cost adjusting, especially in this boon ball meta we have in WvW.

 

oh also when you say power for renegade and short bow, do you mean actual Power or just the strength of it?  That spec/weapon is supposed to be hybrid with a lean on condi

Edited January 4, 2023 by Lonewolf Kai.3682

[arazoth.7290]

Few examples to add/change ontop the already existing effects: 

 

Empowering misery:  On use transfers 1 condi/per sec for 5 second duration to enemies around you in 300 radius. (Since resistance isn't like how it use to be)

Call to anguish: 0,75 second cast time => 0,5 second cast time. while leaping to the target, you evade in the 0,5 second window too. Leap combo finisher is stil here.

Banish enchantment: Instead of the 3 boon removed, let it corrupt 3 boons.

Pain Absorption: When you pull the few condis from allies on yourself, revert them back to enemies in 360 radius around you

Embrace the darkness: I like this upkeep skill personaly, but add some more purple pulsating outwards while this is active (animation wise).

 

Corruption traitline:

 

1st row: Diabolic inferno: Give 1 more stack of poison and burning on use of invoke torment, if you have more suggestions feel free.

Mid row: Remove the trait around resistance completly and change it for something else ( be free to add suggestions ).

3rd row: replenishing despair: it could stay if these changes were made according to condi manipulation. Otherwise replace it.

                 Permeating pestilence: Atm transfering 2 condis => 3 condi transfer.

 

I made a post around this once, so here are the ideas that imo would make it better.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

The problem with this is that this starts stepping into necro territory. 
 

however, I do agree that Banish Enchantment needs an energy cost adjusting, especially in this boon ball meta we have in WvW.

 

oh also when you say power for renegade and short bow, do you mean actual Power or just the strength of it?  That spec/weapon is supposed to be hybrid with a lean on condi

Well, I don't think that stepping into necro territory is a bad thing, if anything it allows for a rev player to play a viable alterantive for boonrip with some alac cover and dmg, as opposed to always sticking to a single meta class per role.

In my opinion, something I illustrated recently on a post in the WvW sub, the meta should allow more classes to fullfill roles that already exist, or potentially hybrid ones, for the sake of diversity. I regard a strip/alacrigade as such a spec. 

Why should Scourge be the king of corrupts if this very Legend in Rev is made with "Corruptions" in mind? I was sceptical on making Spectre a corruption spec (I lean more towards a role of boonrip ala thief/scourge) but Mallyx is the closest that comes to corruption.

And the only access Rev has to strips comes in the form of True Nature Assassin with Herald (which already has a role) and Brutality, which is clunky and quite insignificant (lmk if any build actually utilizes it).

So some form of corruption present in the Demon line and maybe a way to get something like Brutality over the Corruption traits, as well as QoL and energy cost reduction on Mallyx Legend, might allow for a potent strip role that supports with some boons between Mallyx, Jalis and Alac.

As for Shortbow, I kinda meant power dmg, which is not what it truly is indeed. It's a hybrid weapon, but I was touching moreso on the fact that it's quite mediocre in largescale scenarios due to the cleanse ability of classes and could use an amp to it's power coeff (but that would mean condi dmg redu which I doubt renegade players want to see so scrap the idea altogether and stick to Sword/Sword X Something).

[Infusion.7149]

I used to run it a while ago on power herald before the resistance/resolution change. If stability and enemy CC isn't a problem (i.e. you are fighting with firebrand SYG, other revs using jalis , scourge trails) then resistance means you can just trample over the enemy group.

I don't feel banish enchantment in particular needs much, it has been used on power renegade in GVG previously. It's mainly the loss of pain absorption's potency that is the main drawback  Embrace the Darkness isn't that great in WVW. Call to Anguish is a good skill once the boons are removed as you can pull people into a bomb.

Edit: see the current build for renegade as well https://gw2mists.com/builds/revenant/alacrity-renegade

Edited January 4, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Jaykay.9641]

Quote

Banish Enchantment: Reduced energy cost from 30 to 25 in PvP only.

It's already been mentioned, but this is really all that is needed in WvW is a change from 30 to 25 energy as it is now in PvP since the Nov. 29th Patch.

At 20 energy, Banish Enchantment was borderline spammable and lowkey OP. Even while roaming I spammed this ability constantly. It's unblockable, 900 range, 5 targets, and hits three times (and procs Abyssal Chill each time. Could easily get 9-12 stacks very quickly with that trait). the best part about it, was that you can use it while running away and target enemies behind you; love(d) this ability in WVW.

So let's just move it to 25 and call it a day. 30 is too much and 20 wasn't high enough. 25 is the sweet spot. It can give you 2 fresh casts every swap into Mallyx (3 with Charged MIsts). The skills is so good as it is, just lower the energy to 25 and not any changes to Corruption or Mallyx is needed.

However, if we're looking for other ways to add boon rip, I would recommend something like Spellbreaker has where using CC on an enemy removes a boon. That could set up Some Call to Anguish/Staff 5/Axe 5 combos but that's probably OP with Absorption sigils even after the ICF fix.

[Yasai.3549]

I'd rather Banish Enchantment be changed to another AoE condi skill, and a trait in Corruption line changed to Banish Enchantment. 

(Eg. Remove a Boon when you Crowd Control an enemy) 

Why? I feel like BE is a dead button when playing Condi in PvE content and something like Boonstripping (Spon Destruction) which was originally part of Corruption line could be reintroduced in a way which benefits Mallyx' Call To Anguish.

 

This change is also very reminisce of the GW1 Mallyx' Banish Enchantment and has the same flavor regarding removing boons and disables, though remixing it abit. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I'd rather Banish Enchantment be changed to another AoE condi skill, and a trait in Corruption line changed to Banish Enchantment. 

(Eg. Remove a Boon when you Crowd Control an enemy) 

Why? I feel like BE is a dead button when playing Condi in PvE content and something like Boonstripping (Spon Destruction) which was originally part of Corruption line could be reintroduced in a way which benefits Mallyx' Call To Anguish.

 

This change is also very reminisce of the GW1 Mallyx' Banish Enchantment and has the same flavor regarding removing boons and disables, though remixing it abit. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

the chill traitline for banish enchancement could be number fixed for pve, 2-3 torment/chill applied.

for pvp/wvw the 1 torment/chill is fine.

 

further on for more damage/condi controll they can do what I suggested in earlier post here. If you think about it, it can be used in many variations, defensive and offensive + supportive or a mix of these.

I have no idea why it had so many confused faces, so please add some argument on it why 😉

[Za Shaloc.3908]

12 hours ago, Jaykay.9641 said:

It's already been mentioned, but this is really all that is needed in WvW is a change from 30 to 25 energy as it is now in PvP since the Nov. 29th Patch.

At 20 energy, Banish Enchantment was borderline spammable and lowkey OP. Even while roaming I spammed this ability constantly. It's unblockable, 900 range, 5 targets, and hits three times (and procs Abyssal Chill each time. Could easily get 9-12 stacks very quickly with that trait). the best part about it, was that you can use it while running away and target enemies behind you; love(d) this ability in WVW.

So let's just move it to 25 and call it a day. 30 is too much and 20 wasn't high enough. 25 is the sweet spot. It can give you 2 fresh casts every swap into Mallyx (3 with Charged MIsts). The skills is so good as it is, just lower the energy to 25 and not any changes to Corruption or Mallyx is needed.

However, if we're looking for other ways to add boon rip, I would recommend something like Spellbreaker has where using CC on an enemy removes a boon. That could set up Some Call to Anguish/Staff 5/Axe 5 combos but that's probably OP with Absorption sigils even after the ICF fix.

 

Agreed. I think 25 energy is a good happy medium for BE. For whatever reason people seem to really underestimate just how strong this skill can be.

Boon removal on CC would be a fair fit, and wouldn't feel too bad to fight against considering all of cRev's CC is highly telegraphed. 

33 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I have no idea why it had so many confused faces, so please add some argument on it why 😉

I didn't give you a confused emoji, but I personally think making BE corrupt boons is something that should never happen. Boon corrupt is far too strong of an effect to be put on a skill that can be spammed to a moderate extent, and with such ease of use as well (unblockable, no facing requirement, piercing). Its effects are sufficiently strong as is. Necro has a fair amount of boon corrupt, but taking a utility skill like Corrupt Boon (closest equivalent to BE) is a significant sacrifice of other utility in their kit.

I think Mallyx could use some tweaks to help polish the transition from the resistance rework, but I don't think simply powercreeping the skills is the right approach.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Za Shaloc.3908

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

I think Mallyx could use some tweaks to help polish the transition from the resistance rework, but I don't think simply powercreeping the skills is the right approach.

Empowering Misery still not CONSUMING conditions and STILL AFFECTED BY POISON. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

An idea I had was to majorly empower the following 2 traits/abilities: 

Call of the Demon and Invoke Torment (for wvw that is).

Call of the Demon: Strike enemies around you and Corrupt a boon per foe affected

• 360 radius/5 targets/unblockable single boon corruption

Seething Malice: Your condition damage and damaging condition duration are increased (merge with Yearning Empowerment)

Permeating Pestilence: As is, now in the minor Grandmaster slot

Invoke Torment: 360 Radius, skill remains as is

New Grandmaster trait: 

Unyielding Corruption: Invoke Torment now steals a boon from enemies and applies the effect "Banished", decreasing boon duration on all boons present on enemies for 1 second by 10%

• Unblockable steal, Banished could be like the Dischenchantment effect from warrior's WoD (assuming that change is reverted on warrior back to boon application denial).

 

Some idea spitballing on making Corruption a more appealing choice in largescale scenarios.

 

Also: Call to Anguish could do some either some immob on a successful pull or make it remove a boon from the enemy if they are controlled with this skill.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I'll be fair, I did run some extensive tests and Mallyx is very potent as is with boonrip, but that was solo situations vs concentrated zergs inside SM where targeting them without being targeted is easy asf.

The problem is the range, since outside of Banish and the ocassional Shortbow 5 with absorption sigil, you really need to be relative close and facing the enemy, while Rev doesn't rly have the active defenses of SpB or the "leave shade there and go" ability of scourge, or chrono's range. So in a "dodge-through" scenario, I can see Renegade suffering with positioning a bit and general upkeep of it's boonrip, unlike it's competitors. 

So yeah with my proposed changes above making it def a bit more reliable for that key melee moments, I suppose one could not decrease the energy cost for Banish (or at least make it 25 energy) presuming you will be fine with continuous boonstrip pressure (even moreso an issue due to the current zerging being too often stationed at 1200 range). 

[MysteryDude.1572]

Replying to op, cele ren is used in zergs at least in EU . Can be high corrupts, need competent players on it tho. It mostly shines at 900/600 range and melle pushes , commanders playing at max range won't make the most out of it.

 

I have tried core rev , you can get one or two more banish with mallyx f2 + charged mists.

 

And as a bonus meme, since corrupts don't need any stats to set up , you can roll a lvl20 - 30 toon and still get high strips.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

After some research it seems like the class simply maintains a potent filler role with small to no role compression (especially now that Tempests can slot alac, making it obsolete for a renegade), which on itself removes stocks from the spec.

Cause then you either make the choice to still go Cele for the whatever added dmg from your condis and decent boon duration (which outside of aoe resi/stab on jalis is quite insignificant if you tempest perma alacs) which is frankly a massive dmg loss for zerging, since power is the appropriate stat.

And since these downsides appear, then the question is made, why not run a power Vindicator for massive dmg, decent support (cleanse and boon) and potentially shift a role in the zerg to a chrono (much higher utility and strip).

For smallscale Renegade has proven quite powerful though, Ill say that.