Riposte and Counterblow

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Are still the worst skills in the game.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Skullgrinder leap finisher and leap where?

 

You prefer to slap some kitten and easy barrier on pommel bash to "increaase sustain" rather than rework the skils so they can function better and basically even give nothing additional to them?

 

Easy fix: Counterblow now blocks any number of attacks from range (no Shield Master required) and 5 in Melee, with a persisting effect like Rev GS 4 (the obviously improved warrior GS/block related weapon you refuse to use as a basis for fixing warr weapons).

Then you add a 450 range proper leap finisher for Skullgrinder, aka Mechanist Mace 2 and you can still give us the Pommel Bash barrier no issue.

Riposte should borderline function the same, unless if we delve into the hybrid role of sword, to which there are many ideas going around.

Also, double the adrenal gain from blocking with Shield master, if not triple. I run through zergs with it and I barely reach half or 75% adrenaline.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Perhaps shield master should become:

Your blocks reflect projectiles and grant 1 might for 3s. Gaining might grants you 1 adrenaline. Now the trait's adrenaline gain extends beyond itself and also grants adrenaline in other more useful ways.

100% agree on Counterblow and Riposte though. It's no longer 2013, please update these two skills like every other block and counter skill you've made or redone lately.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Perhaps shield master should become:

Your blocks reflect projectiles and grant 1 might for 3s. Gaining might grants you 1 adrenaline. Now the trait's adrenaline gain extends beyond itself and also grants adrenaline in other more useful ways.

100% agree on Counterblow and Riposte though. It's no longer 2013, please update these two skills like every other block and counter skill you've made or redone lately.

Tbh, Shield Master can work as is, the might, as we saw in the past, was implemented poorly and I'd expect them to repeat the same mistake.

Somewhere I saw a very neat idea. A thorns/retaliation effect for shield master, where attacking the warrior also deals damage to the attacker, but that may contrast the adrenal gain where you need to be struck. In any case, more adrenaline or a solid additional effect is needed.

For the rest, it's literally a quick fix they refuse to make. 

Literally slap Rev GS block on Counterblow and/or Riposte  and how you deal with perma-block warr? You make melee attacks blocked a specific number, as opposed to ranged attacks where during the blocking phase the warrior poses no threat and should therefore be able to completely block projectiles. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I very much agree that riposte and counterblow need something, preferably to be full blocks with flip over skills.

 

But failing that, they could at least make counterblow more like riposte:

-blocks attacks until it blocks one in melee range

-counter attack hits multiple targets

-counter attack is instant cast

 

Currently, counterblow has like a 1/2-3/4s cast time on the attack portion of the skill, making it very difficult to land. The attack is already gated behind the enemy needing to attack into my block; there's no reason to make the counter attack so telegraphed, too.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

I also noticed while on Bladesworn that shortening the block duration to get the extra flow instead of the block barely gives you any flow at all.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I very much agree that riposte and counterblow need something, preferably to be full blocks with flip over skills.

 

But failing that, they could at least make counterblow more like riposte:

-blocks attacks until it blocks one in melee range

-counter attack hits multiple targets

-counter attack is instant cast

 

Currently, counterblow has like a 1/2-3/4s cast time on the attack portion of the skill, making it very difficult to land. The attack is already gated behind the enemy needing to attack into my block; there's no reason to make the counter attack so telegraphed, too.

If they are afraid of a high block uptime warrior, then simply make it to block a specific number of melee attacks and losing the block/becoming a flipover for a duration (even after the block expires) so you have control of when you want to use the skill with charges, like Rev GS.

Blocking any number of ranged attacks is fair, since it's projectile blocking in actual blocking skills.

[Jzaku.9765]

I'd be happy with keeping the functionality exactly the same but implementing real flip skills with good effects so you have incentive to actually double tap these 2 skills. The adrenaline gain FILLER skill they share was insulting 10 years ago at launch and continues to be in 2023. 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I'd like to see skullcrack do some leaping animation as currently it's range is very sad...

Not to mention seeing blunt weapons (hammer & mace) get some confusion stacks  on successful disable or interrupt, so non-berserker warriors can still play some condi..

Edited February 8, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[eXruina.4956]

54 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

If they are afraid of a high block uptime warrior

meanwhile.. virtuoso 🦋, catalyst 🌪️⛰️🔥🌊, guardian 🙏

[Grand Marshal.4098]

57 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I'd like to see skullcrack do some leaping animation as currently it's range is very sad...

Not to mention seeing blunt weapons (hammer & mace) get some confusion stacks  on successful disable or interrupt, so non-berserker warriors can still play some condi..

I think it's fine to keep Skullcrack melee and give it a leap with skullgrinder, since it will reflect the difference between Eviscerate being a mobility skill and Decapitate.

28 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

meanwhile.. virtuoso 🦋, catalyst 🌪️⛰️🔥🌊, guardian 🙏

Fun!

1 hour ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I'd be happy with keeping the functionality exactly the same but implementing real flip skills with good effects so you have incentive to actually double tap these 2 skills. The adrenaline gain FILLER skill they share was insulting 10 years ago at launch and continues to be in 2023. 

I mean, thats GS 4 Rev, they clearly improved that. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

51 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

think it's fine to keep Skullcrack melee and give it a leap with skullgrinder, since it will reflect the difference between Eviscerate being a mobility skill and Decapitate.

I beg to differ. Skull crack is very hard to land with a1/2s cast and melee requirement. It's yet another "CC skill that requires the target to be CCd in order to land" (glares at Backbreaker and flurry).  Thing is, you don't want to speed up the cast time, because a super fast or Instacast stun that be be up to 3s is not healthy. 

 

So a good compromise? Increase cast to 3/4s but give it a 300 range leap. That way it preserves the telegraph but also makes it easier to land.

 

Also, skull grinder should absolutely count at the very least as a movement skill so it can clear immobile with warrior's sprint. Might be too strong if a leap finisher because it could then generate and detonate fire auras like sundering leap can. I would absolutely love that, but my opponents might not as much...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I beg to differ. Skull crack is very hard to land with a1/2s cast and melee requirement. It's yet another "CC skill that requires the target to be CCd in order to land" (glares at Backbreaker and flurry).  Thing is, you don't want to speed up the cast time, because a super fast or Instacast stun that be be up to 3s is not healthy. 

 

So a good compromise? Increase cast to 3/4s but give it a 300 range leap. That way it preserves the telegraph but also makes it easier to land.

 

Also, skull grinder should absolutely count at the very least as a movement skill so it can clear immobile with warrior's sprint. Might be too strong if a leap finisher because it could then generate and detonate fire auras like sundering leap can. I would absolutely love that, but my opponents might not as much...

Or, make Skull Crack like Decap where it has 300 range to it and is not a leap.

[Nomad.5204]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Or, make Skull Crack like Decap where it has 300 range to it and is not a leap.

Can we just throw the mace at their head at 600 range and rename it to Skull Thwack.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, Nomad.5204 said:

Can we just throw the mace at their head at 600 range and rename it to Skull Thwack.

The Engineer forums are the other direction 👉🚪

[Nomad.5204]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The Engineer forums are the other direction 👉🚪

Your right that'd be too good for it to be a warrior skill. Instead after it's thrown we lose access to our entire mace kit until we walk over and pick it up with as clunky of any animation as impale's rip function.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 minutes ago, Nomad.5204 said:

Your right that'd be too good for it to be a warrior skill. Instead after it's thrown we lose access to our entire mace kit until we walk over and pick it up with as clunky of any animation as impale's rip function.

This now makes me wanna think about a game where you can disarm opponents and you can pick enemy legendaries!

[prototypedragon.1406]

2 minutes ago, Nomad.5204 said:

Your right that'd be too good for it to be a warrior skill. Instead after it's thrown we lose access to our entire mace kit until we walk over and pick it up with as clunky of any animation as impale's rip function.

This sounds familiar to the previous Banner rework anet did before they repatched it 😉. Joking aside any changes that would improve mace and sword functional on the warrior would be greatly welcomed. In terms of sword F1 burst if they were to make it so impale's animation would do  pulsing immobilize or turn it into a similar immobilize as the rangers elite root (ropes for warrior)that has a health bar  coupled with turning sword 4 into a pull that pulls the warrior to the enemy then using the old f1's animation as a flip over skill while the target is immobilized. Often times most classes can just sneeze off warrior immobilize as it is. It could share a similar functionally with mace except turn the mace four into the immobilize but have it pull the enemy target to you immobilize them  while doing increased vuln stack and might if you cc them first when they are immobilized and then keep the burst skill the same perhaps.

[prototypedragon.1406]

I guess in a way it could be similar to spell breakers one chain skill  on burst trait and the thief's scorpion wire.

[prototypedragon.1406]

It also seems that it would be more useful if warrior would gain barrier if they pull a stun off in general,in most cases  stability stacks and duration cannot be easily broken through since boon removals barely touch the boon bars anymore. Gain increased barrier if the opponent has stability.  with smaller amounts if the opponent does not after succeeding a cc.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Otherwise like that is discussed above counterblow could literally be improved same with riposte by gaining the ability of  rev greatsword 4 coupled with mixed in confusion stacks at least in terms of maces since they tend to do little if any damage as it is.

[Nukk.3492]

Counterblow > 3 second block (ranged and melee). If enemy melee attacks into it and they are disarmed for 3 seconds. Job done.

No need for any adrenaline gain. It feels like adrenaline gain is just there as a justification for keeping the skill as weak as it is.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Nukk.3492

[Zuko.7132]

On 2/8/2023 at 2:52 PM, Nukk.3492 said:

Counterblow > 3 second block (ranged and melee). If enemy melee attacks into it and they are disarmed for 3 seconds. Job done.

No need for any adrenaline gain. It feels like adrenaline gain is just there as a justification for keeping the skill as weak as it is.

That is ridiculously op. It needs buffs, but let’s be reasonable. That’s better than shield block which has a 30 second cd.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I still think counterblow and pommel bash should be rolled into one skill:

 

Full block for 1.5s. If you block an attack, gain access to pommel bash (1s stun). 15s CD.

 

This frees up mace 2 to actually be a damaging skill. If love to see a condi version of Hammer 3 that inflicts vuln and either torment or bleeding in a cone in front of you. Range 600, 5 targets. 8s CD.

Edited February 10, 2023 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Zuko.7132]

11 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I still think counterblow and pommel bash should be rolled into one skill:

 

Full block for 1.5s. If you block an attack, gain access to pommel bash (1s stun). 15s CD.

 

This frees up mace 2 to actually be a damaging skill. If love to see a condi version of Hammer 3 that inflicts vuln and either torment or bleeding in a cone in front of you. Range 600, 5 targets. 8s CD.

I love this idea, because mace definitely needs a dps skill.