New Mantras are horrible!

[Alastor.3054]

• The icons look like alpha placeholders
• The precast time is too long and unnecessary
• The Cooldown is too long
• They make combat less fluid and unfun
• You feel punished for pressing your skills instead of getting rewarded
• There was a reason why they reworked mantras in the first place
• --->The vast majority of actual players dislike the new mantras<---

[Hotride.2187]

They are actually the old mantras.

[Bewt.9258]

Nah, I like them this way. Just wish the last charge/recharging did more.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I wish the charge up animation did something useful, instead of a self daze. It's pretty to look at but clunky, and you feel useless for a few seconds.

[Hotride.2187]

10 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I wish the charge up animation did something useful, instead of a self daze. It's pretty to look at but clunky, and you feel useless for a few seconds.

You have 3 instant casts per mantra, the initial charge doesnt bother me at all. Or what, you feel useless while channeling empower too?

[Gaiawolf.8261]

17 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

You have 3 instant casts per mantra, the initial charge doesnt bother me at all. Or what, you feel useless while channeling empower too?

Huh? Empower pulses healing and might during the channel. You are literally supporting allies while casting it.

 

[Dayra.7405]

Having to warm up my stun break, doesn't really make it more useful 🙂

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Just now, Dayra.7405 said:

Having to warm up my stun break, doesn't really make it more useful 🙂

LOL! I will stun myself now, so I can not be stunned later! That's like if Wimpy had to pay for his burger now, but not get it until Tuesday! I wonder if he will still do it gladly? 

[Kodama.6453]

Let's make a deal:

The preparation cast time is removed. In exchange, every normal charge of a mantra you want to cast has a cast time of 3/4s. Every last charge of a mantra has a 1s cast time, since it has an increased effect.

You prefer it like this?

[Strider.7849]

I know the opinions on the mantra reversal are split on this: some people like it, some don't.

 

Just adding my 2 cents, but the reversal in combination with the previous changes to tomes have made playing firebrand support (zerging in WvW at least) very boring for me.

 

I'm not a huge zerg player but it was one of the few things I could stomach playing in terms of meta zerg builds. It feels slower and  more mechanical (in the robot sense) to play. It's going to collect dust if this is the way they intend to keep it. It's still functional but it's lost its fun (for me).

[Dayra.7405]

10 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Let's make a deal:

The preparation cast time is removed. In exchange, every normal charge of a mantra you want to cast has a cast time of 3/4s. Every last charge of a mantra has a 1s cast time, since it has an increased effect.

You prefer it like this?

Not better for a stun break

[Gaiawolf.8261]

50 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Let's make a deal:

The preparation cast time is removed. In exchange, every normal charge of a mantra you want to cast has a cast time of 3/4s. Every last charge of a mantra has a 1s cast time, since it has an increased effect.

You prefer it like this?

That could work, maybe, except for the stun break as was mentioned. (Edit: And the cleanse. Those 2 would have to happen at the beginning of the cast time to be of any real use.) I'd be happy if the final charge effect was moved to the prep as a channeled effect on a 1.5s cast time.

50 minutes ago, Strider.7849 said:

Just adding my 2 cents, but the reversal in combination with the previous changes to tomes have made playing firebrand support (zerging in WvW at least) very boring for me.

 

I found it the opposite mostly. FB was a one of the simpler classes to play that gave good support options for casual players. Now, with a lot of hidden CDs, hidden ICDs, page regen, page costs, dormant virtues, mantra prep, charge tracking, it's just too much complexity for a simpler class. On top of what's going on in the fight.

Most things to pay attention to should be on the field of battle, not the UI in an ARPG. This isn't WOW or FF14. Now, I just spend way too much time looking at my skill bar instead of the fight. It would be nice if skill interactions and complexities could be more intuitive instead of skill bar and icon tracking. 

It seems like the devs are trying to bar casual players from the class. Raising the skill floor too high while raising the ceiling for skilled players.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

That could work, maybe, except for the stun break as was mentioned. (Edit: And the cleanse. Those 2 would have to happen at the beginning of the cast time to be of any real use.) I'd be happy if the final charge effect was moved to the prep as a channeled effect on a 1.5s cast time.

The stunbreak already has 5 seconds of stability to cover the cast time, so that is not an issue. There are several stunbreaks in the game which have a stunbreak with just 1s stability.

Also why does the condition cleanse need to be immediate? There are also tons of condition cleanses which have cast times.

None of this makes it a hard requirement that they are instant.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The stunbreak already has 5 seconds of stability to cover the cast time, so that is not an issue. There are several stunbreaks in the game which have a stunbreak with just 1s stability.

Also why does the condition cleanse need to be immediate? There are also tons of condition cleanses which have cast times.

None of this makes it a hard requirement that they are instant.

Stun break still needs to happen at the beginning of the skill click, otherwise it's useless against a lot of stuns. Half or even all of the stun might be over by the time you get through the cast time. The stab can happen at the end, but would still be better as a channel. Fits the theme of reciting a mantra better too. When you chant a mantra, the effect starts to take a hold of your brain immediately, not after you are done.

Same for the cleanse. You get slammed with a big stack of burning or torment and you want that gone now. That's one of my favorite parts of MoL. The regen can happen at the end of the cast or during, I guess. I tend to stay away from cleanses with a delay unless they have a powerful pulsing effect that can offer ongoing cleansing.

[Dayra.7405]

39 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

all of the stun might be over by the time you get through the cast time.

You cannot cast the warm-up while you are stunned 😉 as you are stunned

You always  warm up at battle start (which makes some sense as it gives might) or you better equip something else as stun break

[Gaiawolf.8261]

24 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

You cannot cast the warm-up while you are stunned 😉 as you are stunned

You always  warm up at battle start (which makes some sense as it gives might) or you better equip something else as stun break

Not always an option if you get stunned during battle and need to use the final charge. 😞

 

[Kodama.6453]

7 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Not always an option if you get stunned during battle and need to use the final charge. 😞

 

On the plus side, the stunbreak mantra can get used 3 times with 1 second between casts and it is an AoE stunbreak plus stability.

That is a really great ability to prevent stunlocking not only for yourself, but your entire team... it needs a downside somewhere. And the recharging mechanic is giving exactly that.

[Dayra.7405]

28 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

On the plus side, the stunbreak mantra can get used 3 times with 1 second

Where did you get the 3rd? I only see 2 (the warmup isn't a stun break).

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

Where did you get the 3rd? I only see 2 (the warmup isn't a stun break).

?

Am I overlooking something? Here is the link to the wiki page of the mantra in question: Mantra of Liberation
There it says "Number of casts: 3", which should be 2 normal casts of the mantra and then a final charge with increased effect, for a total of 3 stunbreaks.

Or did they change the number of casts and wiki hasn't properly updated yet?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Kodama.6453

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

On the plus side, the stunbreak mantra can get used 3 times with 1 second between casts and it is an AoE stunbreak plus stability.

That is a really great ability to prevent stunlocking not only for yourself, but your entire team... it needs a downside somewhere. And the recharging mechanic is giving exactly that.

Very true. Mantra of liberation is an amazing skill and worthy of being called a game changer, as elite skills should be! I'd still rather see other downsides used to control the balance of this skill, like longer CD and count recharge times, rather than imposing a clunky mechanic like a 2s self daze to prep it. 

2 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

Where did you get the 3rd? I only see 2 (the warmup isn't a stun break).

After charging it, you get three charges, two regular charges and the final charge. You can burn all three if you really need them. Of course the final charge puts you on a long CD. It's an option if you really need that last charge to avoid a nasty burst. 

[Dayra.7405]

Ah we are talking about differnt skills, I was always referring to the Mesmer Mantra of Concentration

[Flow.2947]

I think they are actually good designed like they are now. There is so much more opportunity in balance now. Mantras now give room for counter play and the buffs are decent. Sure they currently disturb your game flow since you are not used to them.

 

But there are times to attack and times you need to recover... 

 

[DarkSoul.2348]

It just need tuning it won't stay like this just like the tombs got fine tuned overall it will be better like this i think. WVW hurts a little more right now because of the no out of combat auto charge and disabling the mantra prep when going into water is obviously an issue in group fights, Pve is pretty solid but perhaps one trade of would be enough either a cd or a pre-cast not both and maybe tweak the power of each charge making it more strategic to use in synergy with the tomes and pages, personally dont really care about having every skill on a perfect spam rotation and you can move while pre-casting so its more fair like other specs that have similar mechanics of preparing skills so overall  its not that bad except in wvw.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:28 PM, Hotride.2187 said:

They are actually the old mantras.

This they are, and the reason they had changed them in the first place was that people avoided to use the last charge (according to ANet they had monitored this closely), presumably because of the long cooldown duration followed by an annoying reactivation time, which were a hefty trade-off for a short one-time bonus boon.

Now it's an exercise of not accidentally casting the last charge all over again.😂

Who came up with that brilliant idea?🤦‍♂️

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Cyninja.2954]

As mentioned, the opinions diverge here.

I actually prefer the current system and implementation, maybe because I was used to the initial implementation and found the removal of charging a braindead change which simply lead to skill spamming.

The increase of effect on the final charge adds opportunity cost which is a nice addition to skill depth and mastery.

 

There is just 1 thing I'd change:

make mantras auto charge in WvW when in the spawn area. Recharging mantras is a tad annoying when map hopping.

 

There could even be made a case for similar treatment of mantras in WvW as PvE, given the already present cooldowns. Though it could cause issues with dropping out of combat for a quick recharge.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Cyninja.2954