About elementalist as PvP class

[zyra.7860]

Look, folks, let me tell you something. I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for a long time, and I know classes. I know them better than anyone. And let me tell you, the elementalist class is a total disaster. It's a weak class, a low energy class, and it's a disgrace. And I'm not saying that because I'm angry, folks. I'm saying it because it's true.

Now, some people say that the elementalist is the best class in Guild Wars 2. They say it's got the best skills, the best damage, and the best survivability. But let me tell you something, folks. That's fake news. It's all a lie. And the people who say that are just trying to sell you something. They're trying to sell you an elementalist build or a guide, or something like that. And it's a scam, folks. It's a total scam.

Let me ask you something, folks. Have you ever seen an elementalist win a tournament? Have you ever seen an elementalist carry a team? Of course not, because it's impossible. The elementalist is a loser class, and it always will be. It's a total waste of time, and I don't understand why people even bother playing it.

So let me tell you, folks. If you want to win in Guild Wars 2, don't play an elementalist. Play something strong, like a warrior or a guardian. Those are real classes, folks. Those are the classes that will take you to the top. The elementalist is a joke, and it's time for us to start treating it like one.

Edited February 19, 2023 by zyra.7860
typo fix

[shion.2084]

Uh… did you not watch the latest monthly tournament?  It was won by a team that played 5 ele’s

[shion.2084]

Ah wait you were being sarcastic I suspect.. sorry missed that

[asket.5674]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:52 PM, zyra.7860 said:

Look, folks, let me tell you something. I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for a long time, and I know classes. I know them better than anyone. And let me tell you, the elementalist class is a total disaster. It's a weak class, a low energy class, and it's a disgrace. And I'm not saying that because I'm angry, folks. I'm saying it because it's true.

Now, some people say that the elementalist is the best class in Guild Wars 2. They say it's got the best skills, the best damage, and the best survivability. But let me tell you something, folks. That's fake news. It's all a lie. And the people who say that are just trying to sell you something. They're trying to sell you an elementalist build or a guide, or something like that. And it's a scam, folks. It's a total scam.

Let me ask you something, folks. Have you ever seen an elementalist win a tournament? Have you ever seen an elementalist carry a team? Of course not, because it's impossible. The elementalist is a loser class, and it always will be. It's a total waste of time, and I don't understand why people even bother playing it.

So let me tell you, folks. If you want to win in Guild Wars 2, don't play an elementalist. Play something strong, like a warrior or a guardian. Those are real classes, folks. Those are the classes that will take you to the top. The elementalist is a joke, and it's time for us to start treating it like one.

„Hey ChatGPT write a pseudo satirical, sarcastic rant about elementalism in the style of Donald Trump“

-„say no more fam“

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by asket.5674

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

They addressed Catalyst thank god.

Now it's time to address Tempest Support. This build is still pumping out waaaay too much personal and party sustain & sheer damage mitigation.

Some real statistics for you: I was streaming for the last couple of days in 3v3 ranked, and I kid you not, literally "every single game that I lost" was due to the very specific situation of my team not having a Tempest Support and the other team did have a Tempest Support. Don't believe me? Click on the link in my sig and watch the previous broadcast.

Later when I ran 3 man premade teams with some buddies, the same exact thing happened. We lost every single game where the enemy team had a Tempest Support when we ran teams that did not have Tempest Support. 100% lose rate to teams with Tempest Support if we did not use Tempest Support, every time.

Then we stood out in the FFA watching people come and go. It was like 90% of everyone with a plat badge next to their name, was running Tempest Support.

Tempest Support is too valuable, too important, makes way too much of a difference in matches. It needs to be nerfed as well. No one class should be mandatory to bring like this. A Spellbreaker being slightly OP right now as example, can still be dealt with and outplayed by a strong player on a mediocre class/build. But Tempest Support is so powerful that it enables a team of Gold 2s using the Tempest Support to be able to seriously threaten wins against like an old Plat 2 player team that isn't using a Tempest Support.

Core Guard Support is a good example of how a support should be. It makes a difference for sure if played wisely, but its presence doesn't auto guarantee a win vs. a team that doesn't have Core Guard Support. In this case the support is a support and only makes as much of a difference as any other class/build that is played well. Tempest Support on the other hand, is just buffed & jacked to such a degree that its very presence in a match vs. a team without one, almost surely guarantees a win unless the Tempest Support team is greatly greatly outplayed.

I'm not even sure quite exactly what needs to be nerfed on Tempest Support. We can get into that later. But it's obnoxious and dumb. I'm tired of this mandatory Ele required bull****. Bring it down to the importance level of Core Guard Support. That's where it should be. Support in GW2 is just whacko overtuned to begin with, even the rando effects being thrown around by most classes. These effects are just too strong when stacked and layed over each other.

[Khalisto.5780]

4 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

They addressed Catalyst thank god.

Now it's time to address Tempest Support. This build is still pumping out waaaay too much personal and party sustain & sheer damage mitigation.

Some real statistics for you: I was streaming for the last couple of days in 3v3 ranked, and I kid you not, literally "every single game that I lost" was due to the very specific situation of my team not having a Tempest Support and the other team did have a Tempest Support. Don't believe me? Click on the link in my sig and watch the previous broadcast.

Later when I ran 3 man premade teams with some buddies, the same exact thing happened. We lost every single game where the enemy team had a Tempest Support when we ran teams that did not have Tempest Support. 100% lose rate to teams with Tempest Support if we did not use Tempest Support, every time.

Then we stood out in the FFA watching people come and go. It was like 90% of everyone with a plat badge next to their name, was running Tempest Support.

Tempest Support is too valuable, too important, makes way too much of a difference in matches. It needs to be nerfed as well. No one class should be mandatory to bring like this. A Spellbreaker being slightly OP right now as example, can still be dealt with and outplayed by a strong player on a mediocre class/build. But Tempest Support is so powerful that it enables a team of Gold 2s using the Tempest Support to be able to seriously threaten wins against like an old Plat 2 player team that isn't using a Tempest Support.

Core Guard Support is a good example of how a support should be. It makes a difference for sure if played wisely, but its presence doesn't auto guarantee a win vs. a team that doesn't have Core Guard Support. In this case the support is a support and only makes as much of a difference as any other class/build that is played well. Tempest Support on the other hand, is just buffed & jacked to such a degree that its very presence in a match vs. a team without one, almost surely guarantees a win unless the Tempest Support team is greatly greatly outplayed.

I'm not even sure quite exactly what needs to be nerfed on Tempest Support. We can get into that later. But it's obnoxious and dumb. I'm tired of this mandatory Ele required bull****. Bring it down to the importance level of Core Guard Support. That's where it should be. Support in GW2 is just whacko overtuned to begin with, even the rando effects being thrown around by most classes. These effects are just too strong when stacked and layed over each other.

Nah, game needs 1 class to reflect projectiles so cheap ranged classes dont ever work

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

21 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

I checked ur Twitch but not gonna watch all 4,5h stream. At what exact point that happens? I saw only bronze level gameplay vs better players.

Its clearly a skill issue. You have thousands of hours in the game but still below mediocore, how is that possible?

lol you guys, I love you with the alt account responses. It's become a tradition to respond to every single thing I say and all footage posted, and act like I'm a bad player.

21 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

Nah, game needs 1 class to reflect projectiles so cheap ranged classes dont ever work

That's the thing though, like everything has projectile reflect now. There are bubbles constantly all over the place in 2023, sometimes other effects as well, from every class on relatively low CDs.

When you stack the Tempest Support in to the equation on top of all that with aura play, heals, cleanses, everything else it does, dropping 2nd CES for team mates to pick up and use to not die, it's just too much damage mitigation. It isn't even about solely projectiles, but rather vs. all damage. It's dumb & cheap.

I used to respect good Ele play but lately I'll be honest with you, I notice a lot of mediocre/novice players running Eles and getting a lot of reward for little risk involved. Ele has become the baby diaper training wheel class. Not sure what to play? Just learn basic rotations on Tempest Support and follow your team fight around for bloated efficiency levels.

It's true.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[zyra.7860]

Just now, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

lol you guys, I love you with the alt account responses. It's become a tradition to respond to every single thing I say and all footage posted, and act like I'm a bad player.

That's the thing though, like everything has projectile reflect now. There are bubbles constantly all over the place in 2023, sometimes other effects as well, from every class on relatively low CDs.

When you stack the Tempest Support in to the equation on top of all that with aura play, heals, cleanses, everything else it does, dropping 2nd CES for team mates to pick up and use to not die, it's just too much damage mitigation. It isn't even about solely projectiles, but rather vs. all damage. It's dumb & cheap.

I used to respect good Ele play but lately I'll be honest with you, I notice a lot of mediocre/novice players running Eles and getting a lot of reward for little risk involved. Ele has become the OP baby diaper training wheel class. Not sure what to play? Just learn basic rotations on Tempest Support and follow your team fight around for bloated efficiency levels.

It's true.

Write me exact list, how you would nerf tempest?

[shion.2084]

27 minutes ago, zyra.7860 said:

I checked ur Twitch but not gonna watch all 4,5h stream. At what exact point that happens? I saw only bronze level gameplay vs better players.

Its clearly a skill issue. You have thousands of hours in the game but still below mediocore, how is that possible?

I can’t tell if this whole thing is sarcastic or not….

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 2/19/2023 at 12:39 PM, zyra.7860 said:

Write me exact list, how you would nerf tempest?

Well first it needs to be discussed exactly what is wrong with the dynamic of Support Tempest.

In a nutshell, the Support Tempest is too "safe". Between all of its stab and invulns that also equate to stab and passive shock CC that interrupts incoming attacks and the blocks and the nature of it stacking inside of its team mates who are also throwing around CC to help protect the Tempest, it's simply too safe. The changes to classes around it have bolstered its safety at this point in 2023, now that everything is tossing around gobs of AoE CCs with additional AoE damage mitigations like Mech/Untamed/Scrapper bubbles ect ect. All of that used to be the Tempest's job, but now every class is throwing supplemental stuff like that and adding the Tempest into the middle of it equates to a big fat "too much is too much".

This leads to a dynamic where a Core Guard, who has far less damage mitigation tolls than Tempest, is able to be focused down just as easily as any other player around him, but a Tempest Support is just too sturdy too safe and a waste of time to dump offense into. Three people can go at a Tempest Support and burn every single CD for DPS & CC and achieve nothing into the Tempest. The Tempest's skills are on low enough of a CD where it can keep up with this kind of damage mitigation play and you can never really "bait his CDs" quickly enough to make targeting the Tempest Support a viable tactic if the Ele player is good. This forces teams to focus someone else and ignore the Tempest Support, which will usually bait the Tempest's CDs faster than targeting the Tempest, if he wants to keep that player alive. This can open opportunity to shift and surprise attack the Tempest, however there is still one more problem. Unlike the Core Guard Support where almost all of his support skills are also his personal sustain skills so baiting his CDs matters, the Tempest has differences between support skills and its backup of selfish sustain skills, like CES or Obsidian Flesh, ect ect. So not only is the Tempest able to selfish sustain like a side node bunker but he forces the enemies to ignore him so he can freecast support on his team. This is a bad dynamic when something with so much selfish sustain also has so much highly valuable mandatory team support.

Look at Core Guardian. This is how a support should be. It has reactive healing/cleansing that it has to pay attention to its party for when to use those CDs when they matter so they aren't wasted. Most of its skills are also shared for use of its personal sustain and party sustain so pressuring his CDs matters. The only back up selfish survival it has is Renewed Focus, which is a ridiculously shorter duration of invuln than what the Ele is able to front. A Core Guard's preemptive damage mitigation tools are in the form of Aegis procs which there really aren't many of, and a few CCs he has, all of which can be wisely used preemptively at the right times, if a player is skilled enough to know when to make it count, to prevent damage. But there are consequences for misuing these CDs. Hefty consequences. He is stated for big party support which means he has very low damage and only adequate personal sustain that sustains just long enough to get back to his group. This is the way a support should be balanced. This build requires actually paying attention to what you're doing.

Look at Tempest Support. You learn a handful of pve like rotations to keep your support skills rolling for your party. These skills are all elongated duration effects, not instant effects. The Tempest can just rotate this stuff without the hassle of needing to worry when it is or is not used. Sure, good timing makes a difference but nothing used on Tempest is "wasted" or "whiffed" in the way that a Guard is punished for misuse of CDs. Then the Tempest needs do nothing more than worry about dodge rolling and selfish sustain, which it has plenty of. The Tempest also has much higher damage potential than the Guard Support.

 

So what are we looking at here? Tempest Support is just too strong, too valuable, and it make the game feel bad to play man, regardless of what class you play into it.

What needs to be nerfed on it? The dynamic needs to be nerfed. So how to achieve this so that it is a bit more on par with Core Guard in terms of difficulty to play and balancing its risk vs. reward?

Depends on what approach you would want to take. Nerf core lines or aim directly at Tempest?

Let's aim directly at Tempest because I know nerfing Core is something pisses all the Eles off:

1. We can start by stop buffing Ele in ways that equates to rofl Tempest sustain. It needs to stop.
2. Elemental Shielding is a problem when paired on Tempest in conjunction with Hardy Conduit. It's perma prot at all times even with no conc stats, which is dumb. Not even a Guardian can do that. Hardy Conduit even makes the prot gain enhanced damage reduction. This is a ridiculously baby mode training wheel source of ULTRA high passive damage mitigation. Something different needs to be done with Hardy Conduit. You tell me what would be fair.
3. Stone Heart needs some kind of mechanical overhaul. Again, considering the perma prot and other passive damage mitigation it has from auras & enhanced prot, negating all critical hits is just too strong man. When you stack prot on frost, even without shock in play, this is only slightly worse than actual invulnerability in terms of damage received. This trait is dumb and too strong after all the other buffs Ele has received over the years. It needs to be changed. I think when swapping into earth, the Ele should get a fat 6k barrier or a -25% or something like that. Either way, negating all crits is too strong man. This trait is highly responsible for why an Ele can kite around and survive 3 players bursting it. It's unreasonably strong compared to what other classes have. This single trait essentially allows the Ele to look at a P Herald, Willbender, Reaper, who is bursting him, and treat them as if they were wearing Soldier Amulets while attempting to attack an Ele who has -33% from prot "+ hardy conduit" and -10% from frost, and -10% from Geo Training, along with w/e shock aura or passive BS it has running to boot. Like I said, it's virtually invulnerability in terms of damage received, and this isn't even dipping into the Ele's back saved stash of actual invuln that it has plenty of.
4. Harmonious Conduit is awfully strong in conjunction with Rock Solid and even the use of Earthen Blessing. It's too much stability considering all of the other damage mitigation it has. There needs to be openings to be able to interrupt Tempest that doesn't require greater team play +ing involving boon rips and some coordinated approach to deal with 1 guy, just because he's a Tempest. No one has to do that vs. a Core Guard Support or a Harbinger or anything else, so why should dealing with a Tempest be a 2 man job all of the time? Well it happens because it has too much stability. I don't even care about the stability its giving its team mates, I'm concerned the amount of stability ON the Tempest. That stab needs to be lowered to like 2s at least, considering the amount of conc it has and other sources of stab. There are also other changes that could be made like overhauling HC so it doesn't grant stab at all or maybe only grants stab to teammates but not the Ele. Regardless, all of that stability is what makes the Tempest "too sturdy - too safe" as I was saying before.

Tempest needs to be nerfed in ways that opens up opportunities to deal damage to it. Considering almost every other build nowadays is throwing out tons of supplemental boons all over the place, the Tempest SHOULD NOT be perma cycling things like prot, and shouldn't have stab on demand any time it does something important. When things are cycling too many important boons like this, they begin to become virtually immune to CCs and damage bursting, even while standing in boon rips.

But if we really want to narrow down the #1 problem on the Tempest Support, it is too much Stability.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, zyra.7860 said:

Write me exact list, how you would nerf tempest?

 

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

I'm not even sure quite exactly what needs to be nerfed on Tempest Support. We can get into that later. But it's obnoxious and dumb. 

@Trevor Boyer.6524 I'm sorry that you have to deal with people like this. That has to be utterly frustrating. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 minute ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

 

@Trevor Boyer.6524 I'm sorry that you have to deal with people like this. That has to be utterly frustrating. 

Eh he asked for it so I gave it to him. It's like a perfect rundown of quite exactly how ridiculous the sustain is on those builds.

[zyra.7860]

12 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Well first it needs to be discussed exactly what is wrong with the dynamic of Support Tempest.

In a nutshell, the Support Tempest is too "safe". Between all of its stab and invulns that also equate to stab and passive shock CC that interrupts incoming attacks and the blocks and the nature of it stacking inside of its team mates who are also throwing around CC to help protect the Tempest, it's simply too safe. The changes to classes around it have bolstered its safety at this point in 2023, now that everything is tossing around gobs of AoE CCs with additional AoE damage mitigations like Mech/Untamed/Scrapper bubbles ect ect. All of that used to be the Tempest's job, but now every class is throwing supplemental stuff like that and adding the Tempest into the middle of it equates to a big fat "too much is too much".

This leads to a dynamic where a Core Guard, who has far less damage mitigation tolls than Tempest, is able to be focused down just as easily as any other player around him, but a Tempest Support is just too sturdy too safe and a waste of time to dump offense into. Three people can go at a Tempest Support and burn every single CD for DPS & CC and achieve nothing into the Tempest. The Tempest's skills are on low enough of a CD where it can keep up with this kind of damage mitigation play and you can never really "bait his CDs" quickly enough to make targeting the Tempest Support a viable tactic if the Ele player is good. This forces teams to focus someone else and ignore the Tempest Support, which will usually bait the Tempest's CDs faster than targeting the Tempest, if he wants to keep that player alive. This can open opportunity to shift and surprise attack the Tempest, however there is still one more problem. Unlike the Core Guard Support where almost all of his support skills are also his personal sustain skills so baiting his CDs matters, the Tempest has differences between support skills and its backup of selfish sustain skills, like CES or Obsidian Flesh, ect ect. So not only is the Tempest able to selfish sustain like a side node bunker but he forces the enemies to ignore him so he can freecast support on his team. This is a bad dynamic when something with so much selfish sustain also has so much highly valuable mandatory team support.

Look at Core Guardian. This is how a support should be. It has reactive healing/cleansing that it has to pay attention to its party for when to use those CDs when they matter so they aren't wasted. Most of its skills are also shared for use of its personal sustain and party sustain so pressuring his CDs matters. The only back up selfish survival it has is Renewed Focus, which is a ridiculously shorter duration of invuln than what the Ele is able to front. A Core Guard's preemptive damage mitigation tools are in the form of Aegis procs which there really aren't many of, and a few CCs he has, all of which can be wisely used preemptively at the right times, if a player is skilled enough to know when to make it count, to prevent damage. But there are consequences for misuing these CDs. Hefty consequences. He is stated for big party support which means he has very low damage and only adequate personal sustain that sustains just long enough to get back to his group. This is the way a support should be balanced. This build requires actually paying attention to what you're doing.

Look at Tempest Support. You learn a handful of pve like rotations to keep your support skills rolling for your party. These skills are all elongated duration effects, not instant effects. The Tempest can just rotate this stuff without the hassle of needing to worry when it is or is not used. Sure, good timing makes a difference but nothing used on Tempest is "wasted" or "whiffed" in the way that a Guard is punished for misuse of CDs. Then the Tempest needs do nothing more than worry about dodge rolling and selfish sustain, which it has plenty of. The Tempest also has much higher damage potential than the Guard Support.

 

So what are we looking at here? Tempest Support is just too strong, too valuable, and it make the game feel bad to play man, regardless of what class you play into it.

What needs to be nerfed on it? The dynamic needs to be nerfed. So how to achieve this so that it is a bit more on par with Core Guard in terms of difficulty to play and balancing its risk vs. reward?

Depends on what approach you would want to take. Nerf core lines or aim directly at Tempest?

Let's aim directly at Tempest because I know nerfing Core is something pisses all the Eles off:

1. We can start by stop buffing Ele in ways that equates to rofl Tempest sustain. It needs to stop.
2. Elemental Shielding is a problem when paired on Tempest in conjunction with Hardy Conduit. It's perma prot at all times even with no conc stats, which is dumb. Not even a Guardian can do that. Hardy Conduit even makes the prot gain enhanced damage reduction. This is a ridiculously baby mode training wheel source of ULTRA high passive damage mitigation. Something different needs to be done with Hardy Conduit. You tell me what would be fair.
3. Stone Heart needs some kind of mechanical overhaul. Again, considering the perma prot and other passive damage mitigation it has from auras & enhanced prot, negating all critical hits is just too strong man. When you stack prot on frost, even without shock in play, this is only slightly worse than actual invulnerability in terms of damage received. This trait is dumb and too strong after all the other buffs Ele has received over the years. It needs to be changed. I think when swapping into earth, the Ele should get a fat 6k barrier or something like that. Either way, negating all crits is too strong man. This trait is highly responsible for why an Ele can kite around and survive 3 good players bursting it. It's unreasonably strong compared to what other classes have. This single trait essentially allows the Ele to look at a good P Herald, Willbender, Reaper, who is bursting him, and treat them as if they were wearing Soldier Amulets while attempting to attack an Ele who has -33% from prot "+ hardy conduit" and -10% from frost, and -10% from Geo Training, along with w/e shock aura or passive BS it has running to boot. Like I said, it's virtually invulnerability in terms of damage received, and this isn't even dipping into the Ele's back saved stash of actual invuln that it has plenty of.
4. Harmonious Conduit is awfully strong in conjunction with Rock Solid and even the use of Earthen Blessing. It's too much stability considering all of the other damage mitigation it has. There needs to be openings to be able to interrupt Tempest that doesn't require greater team play +ing involving boon rips and some coordinated approach to deal with 1 guy, just because he's a Tempest. No one has to do that vs. a Core Guard Support or a Harbinger or anything else, so why should dealing with a Tempest be a 2 man job all of the time? Well it happens because it has too much stability. I don't even care about the stability its giving its team mates, I'm concerned the amount of stability ON the Tempest. That stab needs to be lowered to like 2s at least, considering the amount of conc it has and other sources of stab. There are also other changes that could be made like overhauling HC so it doesn't grant stab at all or maybe only grants stab to teammates but not the Ele. Regardless, all of that stability is what makes the Tempest "too sturdy - too safe" as I was saying before.

Tempest needs to be nerfed in ways that opens up opportunities to deal damage to it. Considering almost every other build nowadays is throwing out tons of supplemental boons all over the place, the Tempest SHOULD NOT be perma cycling things like prot, and shouldn't have stab on demand any time it does something important. When things are cycling too many important boons like this, they begin to become virtually immune to CCs and damage bursting, even while standing in boon rips.

But if we really want to narrow down the #1 problem on the Tempest Support, it is too much Stability.

There are many reasons why this spec should not be weakened.

Firstly, the Tempest offers a range of support abilities that are essential for team survival. With its healing and defensive abilities, the Tempest can keep allies alive and mitigate damage. This is particularly important in PvP, where players are constantly under attack and need to rely on their teammates for support. Nerfing the Tempest would reduce its effectiveness in providing this support, making it harder for teams to survive and succeed in battles.

Additionally, the Tempest has several offensive capabilities that allow it to deal damage and control the battlefield. Its area-of-effect attacks and crowd control abilities make it a valuable asset in team fights, and can help turn the tide of battle in favor of the Tempest's team. Nerfing the Tempest's offensive capabilities would reduce its usefulness in these scenarios, and could make it less viable as a team composition option.

Finally, the Tempest is not an easy class to play effectively. It requires a high level of skill and coordination to use its abilities effectively, and players who are able to do so should be rewarded for their efforts. Nerfing the Tempest would make it less rewarding for skilled players to use, and could discourage them from playing this class in the future.

In conclusion, the Tempest support class is an important component of Guild Wars 2 PvP team compositions, and should not be nerfed. Its support and offensive abilities are crucial for team survival and success, and its high skill cap makes it a rewarding class for skilled players to use. By keeping the Tempest as it is, the game will remain balanced and enjoyable for all players.

[zyra.7860]

Are you tired of your favorite support tempest getting nerfed time and time again? Well, listen up because I'm here to tell you why nerfing support tempest is a terrible idea.

First off, let's talk about repetition. How many times have we seen support tempest get hit with nerfs? It feels like every other patch notes include a nerf for tempest. Enough is enough! We need to stand up for our beloved tempest and say no to these constant nerfs.

But it's not just about repetition, it's about hyperbole as well. Let's be real, without support tempest, the game would be in chaos. Support tempests are the glue that holds our teams together, they keep us alive and help us win battles. Without them, we would be lost in a sea of chaos and defeat.

And let's not forget about the emotional appeal. Think about all the times a support tempest has saved your life in a crucial moment. Think about the times they've kept you and your team alive during a grueling battle. The support tempest is not just a class, it's a friend, a teammate, and a savior.

So, to all the devs out there, please hear us out. Don't nerf support tempest anymore. It's time to let them shine and continue to be the vital support class that they are. Let's stand together and show our support for our beloved tempests.

[Downstate.4697]

There is a reason tempest is the only viable support. Treavor is also biased because pew pew ranger can’t do anything vs it. I am also biased because I play a lot of tempest support.

I can agree that mag aura is too strong for damage mitigation. Earth shield is nerfed enough now and stone heart can be played around. Maybe we should bring other supports up or make it so a willbender can’t crit for 9k on a leap skill.

[zyra.7860]

3 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

There is a reason tempest is the only viable support. Treavor is also biased because pew pew ranger can’t do anything vs it. I am also biased because I play a lot of tempest support.

I can agree that mag aura is too strong for damage mitigation. Earth shield is nerfed enough now and stone heart can be played around. Maybe we should bring other supports up or make it so a willbender can’t crit for 9k on a leap skill.

I agree. Tempest does not need any nerfs, its 90% skill issue.  Ele is now one of weaker class after recent nerfs, as it was nerfed twice. Guardian, ranger, holo and warrior should be next in the nerf line.

[The Ace.9105]

3 minutes ago, zyra.7860 said:

I agree. Tempest does not need any nerfs, its 90% skill issue.  Ele is now one of weaker class after recent nerfs, as it was nerfed twice. Guardian, ranger, holo and warrior should be next in the nerf line.

I'm so frustrated with all this talk about nerfing the Tempest class in Guild Wars 2 PvP. Players keep claiming that it's overpowered and needs to be toned down, but I couldn't disagree more. The Tempest brings unique benefits to the table that make it an essential component of any team composition.

Let's start with the Tempest's support abilities. They're crucial for team survival. With its healing and defensive capabilities, the Tempest can keep allies alive and mitigate damage, which is especially important in PvP when players are constantly under attack. Nerfing the Tempest would only make it harder for teams to survive and succeed in battles.

The Tempest also has a range of offensive capabilities that can deal damage and control the battlefield. Its area-of-effect attacks and crowd control abilities are invaluable in team fights, and can turn the tide of battle in favor of the Tempest's team. Nerfing these abilities would only make the Tempest less effective, and that's not something we should be aiming for.

To top it off, the Tempest is not an easy class to play effectively. It requires a high level of skill and coordination to use its abilities to their fullest potential. Skilled players should be rewarded for their efforts, not punished. Nerfing the Tempest would only make it less rewarding for skilled players and discourage them from playing this class in the future.

I'm frustrated that people don't seem to recognize the unique benefits that the Tempest brings to the table. The game is not balanced as it is, but the Tempest is not the problem. It's a valuable component of any successful PvP team, and I stand by that. It's time to stop the calls for nerfs and appreciate the strengths that the Tempest offers.

[zyra.7860]

6 minutes ago, The Ace.9105 said:

I'm so frustrated with all this talk about nerfing the Tempest class in Guild Wars 2 PvP. Players keep claiming that it's overpowered and needs to be toned down, but I couldn't disagree more. The Tempest brings unique benefits to the table that make it an essential component of any team composition.

Let's start with the Tempest's support abilities. They're crucial for team survival. With its healing and defensive capabilities, the Tempest can keep allies alive and mitigate damage, which is especially important in PvP when players are constantly under attack. Nerfing the Tempest would only make it harder for teams to survive and succeed in battles.

The Tempest also has a range of offensive capabilities that can deal damage and control the battlefield. Its area-of-effect attacks and crowd control abilities are invaluable in team fights, and can turn the tide of battle in favor of the Tempest's team. Nerfing these abilities would only make the Tempest less effective, and that's not something we should be aiming for.

To top it off, the Tempest is not an easy class to play effectively. It requires a high level of skill and coordination to use its abilities to their fullest potential. Skilled players should be rewarded for their efforts, not punished. Nerfing the Tempest would only make it less rewarding for skilled players and discourage them from playing this class in the future.

I'm frustrated that people don't seem to recognize the unique benefits that the Tempest brings to the table. The game is not balanced as it is, but the Tempest is not the problem. It's a valuable component of any successful PvP team, and I stand by that. It's time to stop the calls for nerfs and appreciate the strengths that the Tempest offers.

100% agree this too. 

[shion.2084]

45 minutes ago, zyra.7860 said:

I agree. Tempest does not need any nerfs, its 90% skill issue.  Ele is now one of weaker class after recent nerfs, as it was nerfed twice. Guardian, ranger, holo and warrior should be next in the nerf line.

Ele is simply not one of the weaker classes currently.  That’s just untrue.

[The Ace.9105]

1 hour ago, shion.2084 said:

Ele is simply not one of the weaker classes currently.  That’s just untrue.

I wouldn't claim that Ele is not one of the weaker classes in the game. From my experience playing and observing the current meta, Ele is not in a particularly strong position. While it may have some powerful abilities, it also has a number of weaknesses that can make it difficult to play effectively in certain situations.

For starters, Ele is a very squishy class that lacks the durability of other classes. This can make it frustrating to survive in high-pressure situations, especially in PvP. Moreover, Ele's abilities can be quite taxing to use, which can make it hard to sustain the high levels of gameplay needed to be effective in combat.

Additionally, while Ele does have some powerful offensive and supportive abilities, it lacks the flexibility of some other classes. This can be infuriating when trying to adapt to changing battlefield conditions and respond to unexpected situations.

Ele is not a terrible class but it's not one of the stronger ones in the game right now. It's mainly effective in the hands of experienced players.

[Sahne.6950]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

In a nutshell, the Support Tempest is too "safe". Between all of its stab and invulns 

 SupTempest has either good cleanse (Fire/Water), or is good against powerdamage (Earth/Water). 

They cant have both!

There is no middleground where you have a bit of defense against both Types. Your always super good against the one while having no defense towards the other damagetype.

You need to identifiy what build he plays and capatilaze on the resulting weakness. Pay attention to the auras... do they give protection?  if yes.... hes running earth. 

If your team runs 3 powerbuilds, and the enemy tempest runs earth... your doomed. However, the second one of you guys swaps to a condibuild and focuses the tempest, the Tempest will be toast.

 

 

Think about it... what source of stability does your average dagger/Focus Tempest have? 

The only source of stabi that it has is the stability during the channel of your overload. And i really have to ask you if you are serious right now? 

If you take away tempest stab while overloading, you can completly throw the whole classmechanic into the bin. Even with the stabi its hard to get a overload off when theres someone on your Butt.

 

If you ask me: Tempest is very very very strong in those 3v3 brawl situations because he can adapt his buid between rounds to counter the enemys builds..., but just about in the right Spot when it comes to actual 5v5 conquest. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

17 hours ago, zyra.7860 said:

Look, folks, let me tell you something. I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for a long time, and I know classes. I know them better than anyone.

I read this and its on the internet so it must be true. This is all I wanted to say but to not be antagonistic:

When fire weaver was the only ele build that was sort of  meta (same way dagger spb and staff mirage were sort of meta, but not really), yeah ele was bad. That was almost an year ago, things are very different now.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[The Ace.9105]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I read this and its on the internet so it must be true. This is all I wanted to say but to not be antagonistic:

When fire weaver was the only ele build that was sort of  meta (same way dagger spb and staff mirage were sort of meta, but not really), yeah ele was bad. That was almost any year ago, things are very different now.

You're dismissing some important points. While it's true that the meta can shift over time, and that some Ele builds can be effective in certain situations, it doesn't change the fact that Ele has some inherent weaknesses that can make it difficult to play effectively in certain situations.

The squishiness of the class and the energy-intensive nature of its abilities can be major obstacles in high-pressure situations, and its lack of flexibility can make it difficult to adapt to changing battlefield conditions. These are not minor issues, and they can't simply be dismissed by pointing to the current meta.

I think it's important to acknowledge the challenges that Ele faces, rather than simply dismissing them as outdated or irrelevant.

[Downstate.4697]

Most builds work in casual ranked pvp. The meta builds gravitate towards burst and mobility because of the game mode.  

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

There is no middleground where you have a bit of defense against both Types. Your always super good against the one while having no defense towards the other damagetype.

Let's take a look at the types of attacks that deliver condition damage in GW2:

1. Warrior condis? All projectile based outside of revenge counter.
2. Guardian condis? Melee or instant strike burn damage. This is one of the only dangerous condi types vs. Ele.
3. Rev condis? Renegade = projectile based. Other variants = non projectile but these build structures are so poor performing right now that no one runs these and they are a negligent argument.
4. Ranger condis? All projectile based outside of entangle/bonfire, two attack that pulse. INB4 discussion about traps because those build are now like rev condis, they just don't work for several reasons. Any good ranger condi variant is running zephyr/sharp/LR/entangle.
5. Thief condis? All projectile based outside of sword 2 strikes or DD whirls that no one uses anymore because they're bad.
6. Engi condis? All projectile based outside of some stray effects that don't pump nearly enough damage to contribute to its main projectile bursting.
7. Mes condis? Mostly projectile based, but a good half of it comes from shatters that go under reflects, which is one of the reasons why Mes is dangerous to Ele.
8. Necro condis? If Harbinger, nearly 75% of your DPS output is directly from projectiles. If Core Necro, at least 50% of your damage output is coming off dhuumfire projectiles. Unblockable staff marks, scepter instant strikes, core shroud pulses, are the ways to land consistent steady damage but these do not land kill threat bursts. The only real condi threat vs. Ele right now from the Necro category is if someone were to run a Scourge and stat it for heavy boon corrupts, and in that case every bit of its condi application/conversaion would be non-projectile and tear apart an Ele. Unfortunately, this counter no longer exists in pvp due to much nerfing and massive limitations in gear stats provided.
9. Ele condis? Strangely all non projectile, every bit of it. This is pretty strong in 2023 patchings where anti-projectile has 100% uptime in team fights.

When we really evaluate this, we can see that 80% to 90% of the game's potential condi damage is coming from projectiles. Does Support Tempest need much condi cleanse for itself or its party when it can maintain routine cycling of mass AoE reflects, which is better than condi cleanse as it is full immunity vs. 80% to 90% of the game's condis?

What I hear from Tempest Support players is that the only time they need to use Fire, is against the rare Burn Guard, Condi Mesmers, Condi Eles, and weird Necro builds ballsy enough to stat for mass corruptions. From what I understand, this rarely happens as the aforementioned builds are trash vs. everything else in the meta except Ele.

I feel like not only is there a good middle ground of defense vs. power & condi here, but that it might be a perfect and bloated middle ground that needs to change. We aren't talking vs. just condi here, we are also talking about all of the projectile based power damage that exists in the game that becomes virtually obsolete in the presence of Tempest Support. That's an awful lot of damage mitigation coming from JUST the reflects alone. This isn't even to mention everything else it's doing for its party and for itself.

Now don't take this the wrong way, I'm being serious, trying to have a serious discussion here. I feel like straight Ele mains are desensitized to how absolute their class's defenses are. The Ele mains who do not often dabble in other classes are well, always playing Ele, so they aren't seeing this from the perspective of Non-Ele players who have to play against Ele. To Ele players who have not done so recently or haven't done it long enough to get a clear perspective on this, I highly urge any Ele main to go play the 3s arena as any class that is not an Ele. After a good 50+ matches, I'd like to see what they have to say about this topic after playing a class seriously that is not an Ele. I would definitely expect a perception shift on the topic after they did so.

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

And i have one question for you... 

what source of stability does your average dagger/Focus Tempest have?  

Because the only source of stabi that it has is the stability during the channel of your overload. And i really have to ask you if you are serious right now?

Most of the ones in NA are running both Harmonious Conduit and Rock Solid in the 3s arenas to counter enemy CCs for themselves and their team mates. Definitely seems to work better in 3s where AoE CCs are being slapped around all over the place.

And yes I am being serious. They pump out too much stab man.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524