Thoughts on Markmanship Soulbeast for PvP?

[Zuko.7132]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAENlRwCZgsHGKOeXbPtSmWCA-zZIPkGVAZKFKZEohBA
 

Prelude lash into taunt and immob that lasts long enough to land Maul, Worldly Impact, Hiltbash, Maul. Easy to proc Moment of Clarity. If the vuln stacks are rolling, you can crack 10k.

[Beddo.1907]

What do you do when they stunbreak, how do you deal with condi after Bear stance, why are you running quickness SoulB trait without consistent quickness.

Just a few things I don't like about this build.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Beddo.1907

[Zuko.7132]

12 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

What do you do when they stunbreak, how do you deal with condi after Bear stance, why are you running quickness SoulB trait without quickness.

Just a few things I don't like about this build.

If you know they have stunbreak available you space out your ccs or bait them with pb shot and counter kick. For example, Prelude lash into taunted maul, start worldly impact, if they stunbreak, cancel wait for dodge smoke assault into smoke knockdown into worldy impact, if they stun break, cancel cast, then hilt bash after dodge, maul, worldly impact. If bear stance is on cooldown you stay at range, or quickly disengage with perma swift, swoop (bird skill), swoop (gs), get decap, come back. It’s a roamer build. You have quickness from Beast skills.

also prelude has immob

Edited March 6, 2023 by Zuko.7132

[ventress.4879]

My only change would be to drop "Protect Me" for Quickening Zephyr, otherwise look fine. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Marks takes away either BM or WS and doesn't really replace either, so I wouldn't run marks on slb.  Maybe Untamed, but not slb.

[Koensol.5860]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Marks takes away either BM or WS and doesn't really replace either, so I wouldn't run marks on slb.  Maybe Untamed, but not slb.

Uhm.. no. Marksman soulbeast (the name says it) takes marksmanship + BM. This isn't rocket science, as you'd need the increased movement speed + fury from BM for the opening strikes proc in marksmanship + the increased dmg and cd reduction on greatsword. These two traitlines synergyze perfectly. WS isn't needed on a roamer build. Even the sicem + one wolf pack sniper is often played without WS and uses skirmishing instead for more damage.

 

@Zuko.7132I've ran many different variant of this build, and my favourite uses sword + warhorn in the offhand and takes the boar as 2nd pet. Sword compensates the mobility loss taking boar over bird and gives some evades + with warhorn gives 2 more combo's for your smokescale smoke field. But boar is perfect for this build as it not only has prelude lash as well, but the merged F1 maul also hits INSANELY hard. It's 100% the hardest hitting skill on soulbeast. With sicem, 25 vuln and 25 might and opening strike I've had it hit for 22k on a low health reaper. That was with eagle rune. But even without sicem you will regularly land 10-13k crits when using it after a cc or maul. Another option would be to use boar + gazelle which also has high burst attacks and gives nice mobility.

I use this setup: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEEiNsMCWI7hBxQxx7a9pVygSD-zZILlGLgSTgejgsDBTGAA

With this setup, you can open by using strength of the pack into warhorn 4, use smoke assault and swap to greatsword (sigil of battle proc) and you will be at 25 might. If strength of the pack is on cd, you can also use smoke assault into warhorn 5 (ruthlessness sigil gives 5 might for 10 seconds on interrupt) which gets you to 25 might as well after weapon + pet swap. You can then f1 into f3, swap to boar and and use prelude lash into maul + boar f1 maul + hilt bash + maul. And then you still have the f2 left for another cc. 

Most of the time I use griphon stance over sicem because it helps so much in escaping out of melee. But if I just want to meme some 20k boar f1 mauls I take sicem. 

Another idea could be to use axe instead of sword. Axe 3 hits hard as well, but then maybe you'd find yourself lacking in mobility when playing as a roamer. If you play a more duelist type variant with valk amulet, I'd definately go for axe + dagger as 2nd weapon set though. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Zuko.7132]

1 hour ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Uhm.. no. Marksman soulbeast (the name says it) takes marksmanship + BM. This isn't rocket science, as you'd need the increased movement speed + fury from BM for the opening strikes proc in marksmanship + the increased dmg and cd reduction on greatsword. These two traitlines synergyze perfectly. WS isn't needed on a roamer build. Even the sicem + one wolf pack sniper is often played without WS and uses skirmishing instead for more damage.

 

@Zuko.7132I've ran many different variant of this build, and my favourite uses sword + warhorn in the offhand and takes the boar as 2nd pet. Sword compensates the mobility loss taking boar over bird and gives some evades + with warhorn gives 2 more combo's for your smokescale smoke field. But boar is perfect for this build as it not only has prelude lash as well, but the merged F1 maul also hits INSANELY hard. It's 100% the hardest hitting skill on soulbeast. With sicem, 25 vuln and 25 might and opening strike I've had it hit for 22k on a low health reaper. That was with eagle rune. But even without sicem you will regularly land 10-13k crits when using it after a cc or maul. Another option would be to use boar + gazelle which also has high burst attacks and gives nice mobility.

I use this setup: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEEiNsMCWI7hBxQxx7a9pVygSD-zZILlGLgSTgejgsDBTGAA

With this setup, you can open by using strength of the pack into warhorn 4, use smoke assault and swap to greatsword (sigil of battle proc) and you will be at 25 might. If strength of the pack is on cd, you can also use smoke assault into warhorn 5 (ruthlessness sigil gives 5 might for 10 seconds on interrupt) which gets you to 25 might as well after weapon + pet swap. You can then f1 into f3, swap to boar and and use prelude lash into maul + boar f1 maul + hilt bash + maul. And then you still have the f2 left for another cc. 

Most of the time I use griphon stance over sicem because it helps so much in escaping out of melee. But if I just want to meme some 20k boar f1 mauls I take sicem. 

Another idea could be to use axe instead of sword. Axe 3 hits hard as well, but then maybe you'd find yourself lacking in mobility when playing as a roamer. If you play a more duelist type variant with valk amulet, I'd definately go for axe + dagger as 2nd weapon set though. 

Thank you for the rec! I’ll try it out. Ya, I don’t know why people think it’s unviable. Probably not the best way to play ranger, but it definitely works, and big numbers are fun.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Uhm.. no. Marksman soulbeast (the name says it) takes marksmanship + BM. This isn't rocket science, as you'd need the increased movement speed + fury from BM for the opening strikes proc in marksmanship + the increased dmg and cd reduction on greatsword. These two traitlines synergyze perfectly. WS isn't needed on a roamer build. Even the sicem + one wolf pack sniper is often played without WS and uses skirmishing instead for more damage.

 

Maybe in low gold or below this works.  Anything higher it will not, as you cannot take all offense and expect to get super far with people who actually know how to play sPvP.  

Soulbeast - Sic 'Em Sniper - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

Sic 'Em Soulbeast Build (PvP) - Hardstuck

Q.E.D

Edited March 9, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Koensol.5860]

45 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Maybe in low gold or below this works.  Anything higher it will not, as you cannot take all offense and expect to get super far with people who actually know how to play sPvP.  

Soulbeast - Sic 'Em Sniper - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

Sic 'Em Soulbeast Build (PvP) - Hardstuck

Q.E.D

Types "People who know how to play sPvP", proceeds to link metabattle which is literally known for being outdated and inaccurate. We are in a glass canon meta, everything one shots. Why try to play a damage build with a sustain traitline when you can add more damage from another? WS isn't gonna save you against power burst. And soulbeast has more than enough ways to survive with things like stealth, mobility, dolyak stance, block, and evades. You don't need WS. Especially as a roamer. I play in plat 1 just fine with this. And as for the sicem owp build, Eurantien solo Q'ed to legendary on this build, after which many started playing it with success: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEcE2oMCGErjByMxi9a/pVi0nA-zZIPkMlA9qCKZIYrBA

It may not be the most popular atm because of the amount of tempests and catas in the meta, but this version of the sicem build slaps so much harder than the WS version. You just need the reflexes and positioning to pull it off. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Arheundel.6451]

23 minutes ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Types "People who know how to play sPvP", proceeds to link metabattle which is literally known for being outdated and inaccurate. We are in a glass canon meta, everything one shots. Why try to play a damage build with a sustain traitline when you can add more damage from another? WS isn't gonna save you against power burst. And soulbeast has more than enough ways to survive with things like stealth, mobility, dolyak stance, block, and evades. You don't need WS. Especially as a roamer. I play in plat 1 just fine with this. And as for the sicem owp build, Eurantien solo Q'ed to legendary on this build, after which many started playing it with success: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEcE2oMCGErjByMxi9a/pVi0nA-zZIPkMlA9qCKZIYrBA

It may not be the most popular atm because of the amount of tempests and catas in the meta, but this version of the sicem build slaps so much harder than the WS version. You just need the reflexes and positioning to pull it off. 

Your analysis is correct..but it's also true that the higher you go, the cheesiest most builds played will be. We're talking about builds that can eat a combo kd with modifier and still laugh at you. Still I would go with your approach, you make for a decent +1, a in good team..you go far

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Types "People who know how to play sPvP", proceeds to link metabattle which is literally known for being outdated and inaccurate. We are in a glass canon meta, everything one shots. Why try to play a damage build with a sustain traitline when you can add more damage from another? WS isn't gonna save you against power burst. And soulbeast has more than enough ways to survive with things like stealth, mobility, dolyak stance, block, and evades. You don't need WS. Especially as a roamer. I play in plat 1 just fine with this. And as for the sicem owp build, Eurantien solo Q'ed to legendary on this build, after which many started playing it with success: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEcE2oMCGErjByMxi9a/pVi0nA-zZIPkMlA9qCKZIYrBA.

It may not be the most popular atm because of the amount of tempests and catas in the meta, but this version of the sicem build slaps so much harder than the WS version. You just need the reflexes and positioning to pull it off. 

You still keep disputing me, then link me a build 'played in legendary' that doesn't even utilize Marks...thanks for proving the point? 

I have all the sPvP titles I need or want (solo Q'ing immob druid of all things last season at avg 1480ish); just trying to give decent advice, and 'play marks on slb' is not it.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Koensol.5860]

24 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You still keep disputing me, then link me a build 'played in legendary' that doesn't even utilize Marks...thanks for proving the point? 

I have all the sPvP titles I need or want (solo Q'ing immob druid of all things last season at avg 1480ish); just trying to give decent advice, and 'play marks on slb' is not it.  

It's not my problem that your reading comprehension isn't up to speed. At first I responded to your feedback on the marksman + bm build. Then, to further explain why I think WS is not needed, I said that "even the sicem sniper build often doesn't use WS  anymore, but uses Skirmishing instead". In response to that, you linked 2 versions of the sicem sniper build WITH WS. So I posted another version of the sicem sniper with skirmishing. 

My original point about Marksmanship was in relation to the builds the OP and I originally posted. And that BM works better with Marksmanship with that build. BM + Marksmanship together enable a very consistent proccing of opening strike, to make your big single hitters like maul, wordly impact and boar F1 to hit 25% harder. 

 

So before you lecture or criticize me again for being logically incoherent, please make sure you read carefully and follow the conversation. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Gotejjeken.1267]

20 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

It's not my problem that your reading comprehension isn't up to speed. At first I responded to your feedback on the marksman + bm build. Then, to further explain why I think WS is not needed, I said that "even the sicem sniper build often doesn't use WS  anymore, but uses Skirmishing instead". In response to that, you linked 2 versions of the sicem sniper build WITH WS. So I posted another version of the sicem sniper with skirmishing. 

...

So before you lecture or criticize me again for being logically incoherent, please make sure you read carefully and follow the conversation. 

 

Just to be clear...

This is called moving the goal posts--my initial post was pointing out marks on a slb is probably a bad idea; you replied and moved the goal posts to 'WS isn't needed you can just run all glass and skirm' (as no one is disputing BM is mandatory for slb), which doesn't disprove that marks isn't optimal on a slb.

To me, losing coni clear / fury access, stab on pet swap, and either extra condi clear with lesser muddy or regen with oakheart is a bad tradeoff for 25% dmg modifier.  It's also my thought they need to rework marks away from opening strike which is a bad gimmick that hasn't been relevant in forever. 

My original post also indicated marks can work much better on untamed, because untamed has more defensive capabilities than soulbeast--so you could do marks/bm or marks/skirm depending on if you take gs or not.  Untamed is also one time I wouldn't  take WS because of all the natural defenses Untamed has and the fact you can get cleansing unleash and such to cover condi clears.  

The tdlr; is my opinion is that marks is about as hard to work into a build as nature magic is.  It'll have niche uses (like aforementioned Untamed example), but I linked the meta battle / hardstuck builds to show that in general you'll want the defense from WS even if you are trying to shoehorn roamer into the ranger kit (feel that roamer is more thief and ranger is more duelist but that's a whole other debate).  

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It's also my thought they need to rework marks away from opening strike which is a bad gimmick that hasn't been relevant in forever.

Opening Strike/Remorseless has been part of most relevant ranger build in sPvP for the past few years, and it was also pretty decent for WvW roaming until cele buffs rendered every non cele build subpar (still not worse than other power builds). It's one of the better and more interesting trait synergies, works with every single elite spec, and the last thing that needs a "rework" (which usually translates to making it more boring and unfun).

Is it optimal for soulbeast - probably not. But if we are talking about sPvP, then ranger in general isn't "optimal". So marks slb is pretty much in line with other ranger builds right now (most of which also run marks) and whether it is better or worse than ws soulbeast is mostly a matter of (enemy) comps. Similar applies to WvW - in general it's on par with other power slb builds and i'd actually prefer it over ws variants, because those lack dmg and you won't win a sustained fight vs cele builds anyways, so might as well try to end quick.

 

[ventress.4879]

Honestly just use them both. I normally run my Soulbeast (duel Longbow) Marksmanship build on sieges due to ability to retreat into the Zerg. 

While I run my Untamed (single Longbow) Marksmanship build when I roam with the Zerg due to the ability to land the longbow Ambush (no elevation issues). 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Koensol.5860]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Just to be clear...

This is called moving the goal posts--my initial post was pointing out marks on a slb is probably a bad idea; you replied and moved the goal posts to 'WS isn't needed you can just run all glass and skirm' (as no one is disputing BM is mandatory for slb), which doesn't disprove that marks isn't optimal on a slb.

To me, losing coni clear / fury access, stab on pet swap, and either extra condi clear with lesser muddy or regen with oakheart is a bad tradeoff for 25% dmg modifier.  It's also my thought they need to rework marks away from opening strike which is a bad gimmick that hasn't been relevant in forever. 

My original post also indicated marks can work much better on untamed, because untamed has more defensive capabilities than soulbeast--so you could do marks/bm or marks/skirm depending on if you take gs or not.  Untamed is also one time I wouldn't  take WS because of all the natural defenses Untamed has and the fact you can get cleansing unleash and such to cover condi clears.  

The tdlr; is my opinion is that marks is about as hard to work into a build as nature magic is.  It'll have niche uses (like aforementioned Untamed example), but I linked the meta battle / hardstuck builds to show that in general you'll want the defense from WS even if you are trying to shoehorn roamer into the ranger kit (feel that roamer is more thief and ranger is more duelist but that's a whole other debate).  

You still can't see how there's two different arguments going around in one conversation, can you? One about the marksmanship + BM greatsword burst build, and the other about the sicem owp sniper (of which the metabattle version uses WS, hence why I responded to that). Also, in this very post, right after saying you want to keep the topic to just marksmanship, you go ahead and bring up the cons of dropping WS. Bruh, make up your mind XD

 

You say:  "To me, losing coni clear / fury access, stab on pet swap, and either extra condi clear with lesser muddy or regen with oakheart is a bad tradeoff for 25% dmg modifier."

I say: Way to go simplifying marksmanship to just a 25% dmg modifier. Opening strike is just one of the things the traitline gives. Btw opening strike is not just a 25% dmg modifier, it also gives a ton of vuln and a guaranteed critical hit, which is huge for setting up single hitter bursts and also opens up the possibility of using Valkyrie amulet, which gives you access to a ton of health, with the ability to guarantee your big hitters will crit. Marksmanship also offers the 'Clarion Bond' trait, which gives fury, might, swiftness and inflicts 5 seconds of weakness. On top of that, it's also a blastfinisher, which can be combo'd with the smokescale smoke field for stealth combo's. Finally, remorseless increases the duration of your stuns and dazes by 50%, which is quite good.

 

In your defence, yes losing the condi clear hurts. But on a roamer build focussed on bursting (and yes, marksmanship increases your burst by a BIG margin) and then quickly disengaging again, you don't really need this that much. Also, you have more than enough stab sources with strength of the pack and dolyak stance on your bars. You won't really feel the loss of that 1 measly stab on petswap. Fury uptime also isn't an issue, because BM + soulbeast traits and Marksman's Clarion bond trait in addition to Strength of the pack give more than enough fury uptime to upkeep the damage bonus from furious strength, and your big hitters will always be a guaranteed crit because of opening strikes. No matter how you twist it, Marksmanship serves the purpose of this build perfectly, in addition to BM.

 

Also I don't want to be rude, but the fact you say that opening strikes/remorseless is a gimmick that hasn't been relevant in forever, tells me enough about your knowledge of ranger in general. Marksmanship has been a staple for big burst soulbeast builds, valk ranger builds, untamed builds, and power druid builds for a long time. The power druid, valk core ranger, and untamed builds are also listed on your beloved metabattle btw: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Ranger 
Just take a look at how many of those metabattle pvp builds use marksmanship. 6 out of 7 power builds posted there utilize Marksmanship. And you say it's not relevant? XD
As for metabattle though, I've told you before it is known for being outdated, and even hardstuck doesn't list every build that is played at higher levels. There is also a BIG difference between effectiveness in ranked and AT's. In ranked, big bursty mobile builds work very well because you can hard carry on them if played well. Compared to AT's, ranked is a lot more unorganized and coördinated bursts and map communication are not as common. So killing fast and decapping/capping points will make it a lot easier to carry on mobile squishy roamers. I will admit that the build posted by the OP is off meta, and so is the version that I posted. But that sicem sniper build from metabattle that you linked is very old and already has been outclassed for pure roaming by the skirmishing version I linked later, granted you have the skill to play such a squishy version. And Valkbeast is a very strong ranger build, just like the valk core ranger build,  even though the soulbeast version is not listed on metabattle. Every competent ranger player can tell you that.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Also I don't want to be rude, but the fact you say that opening strikes/remorseless is a gimmick that hasn't been relevant in forever, tells me enough about your knowledge of ranger in general. Marksmanship has been a staple for big burst soulbeast builds, valk ranger builds, untamed builds, and power druid builds for a long time.

 

I don't really care about what others think of my ranger knowlege, if they are curious they can come find me in-game / YT me , whatever. 

I stand by 'big burst' is a gimmick that is easily played around with any defense (hate bubble, reflect, etc.).  

Anyway, you've already shown a build played by Eurantien that doesn't use marks and admitted what we're even talking about here is 'off meta' anyway.

My last tldr; on this is I don't think marks is good on slb.  Which is actually a direct answer to the topic title.  

[Koensol.5860]

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I don't really care about what others think of my ranger knowlege, if they are curious they can come find me in-game / YT me , whatever. 

I stand by 'big burst' is a gimmick that is easily played around with any defense (hate bubble, reflect, etc.).  

Anyway, you've already shown a build played by Eurantien that doesn't use marks and admitted what we're even talking about here is 'off meta' anyway.

My last tldr; on this is I don't think marks is good on slb.  Which is actually a direct answer to the topic title.  

Lmao at the bolded. That's because it is a totally different kind of build, that uses multihit weapons like longbow, warhorn and OWP, which all don't synergize with opening strike/remorseless. Btw, that guy also plays valkbeast a lot. You honestly sound so clueless about the nature of these different builds, and you ignore my entire post filled with arguments and evidence on how marksmanship is not irrelevant. I don't know man, stay proudly ignorant I guess 👍

[Eurantien.4632]

Totally viable. Maybe not as good as some other stuff, but this can definitely work. I recommend Air Runes on BM/Marks builds because the CC synergizes so well with marks and BM. Also recommend maybe boar and/or gazelle as pet options. Have fun out there!

As a variant option, you can also go valkyrie with a/d gs with gazelle/boar or smokescale (or probably raven) too!

HIGHLY recommend gryphon stance, you can use it like a ":stunbreak" by just preemptively dodging a big CC if you got the reaction time/practice with it. I have it on every soulbeast build. You also dont always NEED Sic Em to net kills if you can land your damage. Just some thoughts!

Fun fact! Taunt and fear generated by the ranger (not the pet) have increased duration via Moment of Clarity!

Edited March 12, 2023 by Eurantien.4632

[Gotejjeken.1267]

11 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Lmao at the bolded. That's because it is a totally different kind of build, that uses multihit weapons like longbow, warhorn and OWP, which all don't synergize with opening strike/remorseless.

 

Speaking of making up your mind..OP linked a build that uses longbow and opening strike/remorseless, which you are here arguing against.  

As mentioned, a few times now, I personally think Marks works way better on Untamed because of the natural defenses and CC capabilities (where MoC and Remorseless would actually shine).  

I don't know what else to say here...we even have Eura saying OP build is 'viable but maybe not as good as some other stuff' which to me means unless you already have the skills to play practically anything you may want to reconsider (at a high level not randos in silver/low gold).

Finally...

11 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

You honestly sound so clueless about the nature of these different builds, and you ignore my entire post filled with arguments and evidence on how marksmanship is not irrelevant. I don't know man, stay proudly ignorant I guess 👍

Like I said--not that it matters but you keep throwing 'clueless' around--I've played Druid at a consistent ~1480 and 60% winrate soloq last season.  Personally, I rarely ever saw soulbeasts at this level, only teleburst untamed and other condi/bunker druids.  When I did see soulbeasts, they were usually condi, but if I did see high damage bursts like this, they were about as much threat as a roaming thief (less than a DE though); that is, annoying, but nothing that can't be bunkered off the point or ignored for the most part.  

Anyway, to recap as my final on this, I think marks can be a lot better, and really only generally viable on Untamed.  For it to be viable on Soulbeast like Eura implies above, it is my opinion you better also have either a high skill or be playing against people that you'd beat on really anything else anyway.  

[ventress.4879]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Speaking of making up your mind..OP linked a build that uses longbow and opening strike/remorseless, which you are here arguing against.  

As mentioned, a few times now, I personally think Marks works way better on Untamed because of the natural defenses and CC capabilities (where MoC and Remorseless would actually shine).  

I don't know what else to say here...we even have Eura saying OP build is 'viable but maybe not as good as some other stuff' which to me means unless you already have the skills to play practically anything you may want to reconsider (at a high level not randos in silver/low gold).

Finally...

Like I said--not that it matters but you keep throwing 'clueless' around--I've played Druid at a consistent ~1480 and 60% winrate soloq last season.  Personally, I rarely ever saw soulbeasts at this level, only teleburst untamed and other condi/bunker druids.  When I did see soulbeasts, they were usually condi, but if I did see high damage bursts like this, they were about as much threat as a roaming thief (less than a DE though); that is, annoying, but nothing that can't be bunkered off the point or ignored for the most part.  

Anyway, to recap as my final on this, I think marks can be a lot better, and really only generally viable on Untamed.  For it to be viable on Soulbeast like Eura implies above, it is my opinion you better also have either a high skill or be playing against people that you'd beat on really anything else anyway.  

Hmm I have seen them but it's very hard to play solo que, most tournament groups have either an Untamed or Soulbeast (probably to cheese it) 

I would say that Druid is most rare Elite to come across with Untamed being the most popular. I play a varient of Untamed that is Condition which was posted on the forums a while ago. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Koensol.5860]

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Speaking of making up your mind..OP linked a build that uses longbow and opening strike/remorseless, which you are here arguing against.  

As mentioned, a few times now, I personally think Marks works way better on Untamed because of the natural defenses and CC capabilities (where MoC and Remorseless would actually shine).  

I don't know what else to say here...we even have Eura saying OP build is 'viable but maybe not as good as some other stuff' which to me means unless you already have the skills to play practically anything you may want to reconsider (at a high level not randos in silver/low gold).

Finally...

Like I said--not that it matters but you keep throwing 'clueless' around--I've played Druid at a consistent ~1480 and 60% winrate soloq last season.  Personally, I rarely ever saw soulbeasts at this level, only teleburst untamed and other condi/bunker druids.  When I did see soulbeasts, they were usually condi, but if I did see high damage bursts like this, they were about as much threat as a roaming thief (less than a DE though); that is, annoying, but nothing that can't be bunkered off the point or ignored for the most part.  

Anyway, to recap as my final on this, I think marks can be a lot better, and really only generally viable on Untamed.  For it to be viable on Soulbeast like Eura implies above, it is my opinion you better also have either a high skill or be playing against people that you'd beat on really anything else anyway.  

Yea ok. This argument is over for me at this point. What a waste of time, honestly. You just keep missing points I make. You can't distinguish between different discussions about different builds running at the same time. And you use arguments I make about build X against me for discussions about build Y, forcing me to repeat and clarify again. And as the icing on the cake, you twist Eurantien's post to fit your argument, while his post clearly advocates using BM + Marks working well together, in addition to mentioning valkbeast with axe dagger (which I also posted about before). His comment "not as good as some other stuff" is obviously aimed at the specific build the OP posted, not at the synergy between BM and Marksman, which is what you keep arguing against. There's a difference between the two. Yet another example of your inability to comprehend what someone is saying and using that distorted interpretation as a basis to attack my post again. Strawman much?

But it's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Let's leave it up to the OP to decide what he wants to pick up on.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Sharquavious III.8965]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:46 AM, Koensol.5860 said:

Types "People who know how to play sPvP", proceeds to link metabattle which is literally known for being outdated and inaccurate. We are in a glass canon meta, everything one shots. Why try to play a damage build with a sustain traitline when you can add more damage from another? WS isn't gonna save you against power burst. And soulbeast has more than enough ways to survive with things like stealth, mobility, dolyak stance, block, and evades. You don't need WS. Especially as a roamer. I play in plat 1 just fine with this. And as for the sicem owp build, Eurantien solo Q'ed to legendary on this build, after which many started playing it with success: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEcE2oMCGErjByMxi9a/pVi0nA-zZIPkMlA9qCKZIYrBA

It may not be the most popular atm because of the amount of tempests and catas in the meta, but this version of the sicem build slaps so much harder than the WS version. You just need the reflexes and positioning to pull it off. 

I just started playing like a week ago and really only want to pvp.
Where do I look for up-to-date builds? they seem sparse on the forums

[Eurantien.4632]

18 hours ago, Sharquavious III.8965 said:

I just started playing like a week ago and really only want to pvp.
Where do I look for up-to-date builds? they seem sparse on the forums

https://metabattle.com/wiki/PvP_Builds

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/?gw2gametype=pvp&d=0

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 3/12/2023 at 6:08 AM, Koensol.5860 said:

But it's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Let's leave it up to the OP to decide what he wants to pick up on.

 

I agree, think we've debated all we can at this point--but I am listening to your points:

  

On 3/9/2023 at 1:46 AM, Koensol.5860 said:

Types "People who know how to play sPvP", proceeds to link metabattle

 

11 hours ago, Eurantien.4632 said:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/PvP_Builds

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/?gw2gametype=pvp&d=0

 

🙃