How to Complete Harbinger

[Zex Anthon.8673]

This class seriously didn't get the dev time it deserved. Its a decent necro spec that has a unique playstyle, but it really falls short of having a cohesive concept. Pistol, Shroud, and Elixirs are all over the place. Traits are cookie cutter and don't change the gameplay in any significant way. The theme is some odd mix between gunslinger, plague doctor, and martial artist. I believe there should be 3 distinct playstyles for every elite specialization. For harbinger this should change how you interact with blight and elixirs.

The 3 playstyles I see rounding out the spec:

1. High power burst glass cannon. Risky strategy that tries to maintain max blight at all time to maximize burst potential.
2. Boon support using elixirs. We currently have this and it feels like the best way to play harbinger at the moment.
3. Durable condi damage dealer. Safer option, but less burst damage. Tries to remove blight to gain value.

Theme

• Shroud auto attack becomes dual wielded shadow pistols
• Voracious Arc uses rocket jump animation with a shadow rifle

Elixirs

• Elixirs no longer apply blight by default
• Elixir of Ignorance grants 1s of stability to cover cast time and 3s of superspeed.
• Elixir of Risk provides 3s of Aegis

Pistol

• Vicious Shot applies poison instead of torment
• Weeping Shots applies poison instead of torment
• Vile Blast is an elixir

Shroud

• Tainted Bolts applies poison instead of torment
• Dark Barrage applies poison instead of torment
• Devouring Cut applies poison instead of torment
• Voracious Arc is a leap finisher, evade is increased to 3/4s to match a normal dodge and cover the cast time, applies poison instead of torment

Traits

• Implacable Foe now prevents elixirs from removing blight
• Cascading Corruption no longer deals damage in an aura when in shroud. Applies offensive boons to self every interval for each blight threshold met, (5) Grants Might, (15) Grants Fury, (25) Grants Quickness
• Vile Vials now causes elixirs to apply blight
• Deathly Haste no longer applies Fury
• Septic Corruption no longer increases condition damage per stack of blight. Decrease the effectiveness of blight. Shroud skill 2 also inflicts torment.
• Dark Gunslinger Pistol skill 2 also inflicts torment
• Doom Approaches no longer inflicts torment and weakness in an aura when in shroud. Blight accumulates twice as fast while in shroud. Removing blight inflicts poison and torment on nearby enemies.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Zex Anthon.8673

[Dr Meta.3158]

Harbinger is ok in its first beta release where it had two 900 range, short cooldown mobility skills that were very smooth and responsive, used lifeforce consistently to regenerate, and had the option of using slow causing elixirs and applying weakness at critical moments for defense making it a very agile necromancer which afforded it the ability to actually play as a roamer. Finally a different role other than teamfighter.

The only thing it needed was different utilities other than cooke cutter elixirs and a way to allow bursts to better fulfill that roamer role... then they ruined it. The mobility skills got shorter range with no adjustment in animation so now they're clunky just like reaper shroud 2. They got a cooldown increase so altogether you're about as mobile as a reaper... which is slow. The blight mechanic was made into a convulted mess. They doubled down on the boring kitten elixirs. Then they made it into a half-assed quickness support. All of it baked into a thematic that makes zero sense for a necromancer. 

It needs to be rebuilt from the ground up like a few other badly designed elite specs and that will never happen. 

[Parpage.9867]

2 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

This class seriously didn't get the dev time it deserved.

You are correct, it feels undercooked and still in a beta state (also we still lack new player chatter, wich is very sad, i know that for many it isn't that important and gameplay wise it's true but imo little details like this shows care and attention). 

2 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

The theme is some odd mix between gunslinger, plague doctor, and martial artist

I really don't get why they didn't just cash-in with the free opportunity to give into that sweet plaguedoctor concept, i mean you literally have elixirs and pistol feels nice when paired with it, the only thing out of place is the random gun-fu thing that they had in mind lol. 

2 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

The 3 playstyles I see rounding out the spec:

1. High power burst glass cannon. Risky strategy that tries to maintain max blight at all time to maximize burst potential.
2. Boon support using elixirs. We currently have this and it feels like the best way to play harbinger at the moment.
3. Durable condi damage dealer. Safer option, but less burst damage. Tries to remove blight to gain value.

I agree with the first point, but sadly with the lack of good off hand power weapons and traits (both core and harbinger) we lack the possibility to do that. 

For your second point i agree. I would rather have them revert  elixirs back to when you would consume them in place. Make them throwable when traited to share boons, so we have at least some changes in playstyle. 

For your third point i disagree, we have already scourge for that. 

2 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

applies poison instead of torment

Unless you plan to apply tons of poison for each skill it would be very bad since as a condi itself it's very meh, torment is way better imo. 

31 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

It needs to be rebuilt from the ground up like a few other badly designed elite specs and that will never happen. 

Sadly you're right, in fact they didn't change anything substantial about this spec since when EoD came out lmao

[Zex Anthon.8673]

11 minutes ago, Parpage.9867 said:

Unless you plan to apply tons of poison for each skill it would be very bad since as a condi itself it's very meh, torment is way better imo. 

 

I figured it can be balanced with correct amount of stacks. We already have scourge for torment and poison fits the theme a lot better. Also, Putrid Defense needs something to synergize with.

[Dadnir.5038]

If anything there is already to much focus on the optional elixirs. Having traits that force players to use elxirs even more is a threat to the already poor build diversity that harbinger offer.

What Harbinger need is more fun interaction with it's harbinger shroud and the skills associated. Having a pulsing aura while in shroud is boring. Having blight increase specific damage with each of it's stacks is boring and inefficient. Having 2 elixir traits is one to many elixir trait. The elixirs list of effects being as long as a chinese webnovel is an issue (Elixir are bloated with effect an it's a problem in itself).

• The Harbinger need better access to blight if he want to make good use of it's adept traits. (A trait granting 5 blight stacks upon using any utility skill would help tremendously in build variety. In fact, it could even help with the issue of the specific damage increase based on the number of blight stacks the harbinger have)
• The Harbinger need to have it's elixir traits merged.
• The Harbinger need fun GM trait that aren't plain boring pulsing aoe centered around the harbinger (Deathly haste should completely change Vital draw into a support skill that provide quickness and maybe other boons or barrier/heal. Cascading corruption should change Dark barrage into a ground targeted AoE in which a storm of darkness deal strike damage with each pulse. Doom approach should improve on voracious arc and/or devouring cut, better range, base torment/crippling effect added to those skills when traited.)

 

[Greviathan.6107]

I would say rework more than complete.
Because that's what the harbinger needs. It's a necro that doesn't even look like a necro except for the fact that it carries with it some of the main flaws. Everything looks like some sort of placeholder.  Personally I would change everything about the harbinger, even the weapon.

[sdaugherty.1984]

3 hours ago, Greviathan.6107 said:

It's a necro that doesn't even look like a necro

I agree, the only Necro class feel the specialization has is the smokey green aura...

Edited March 17, 2023 by sdaugherty.1984

[Zex Anthon.8673]

7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

If anything there is already to much focus on the optional elixirs. Having traits that force players to use elxirs even more is a threat to the already poor build diversity that harbinger offer.

True, thats why I suggested traits that would change the way blight interacts with elixirs to make them more or less optional. And included other ways to generate blight faster or make it less potent.

This way you have much more flexibility with build construction. Want high blight uptime? Take vile viles and implacable foe. Dont want to use elixirs, but still want blight? Take doom approaches.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

True, thats why I suggested traits that would change the way blight interacts with elixirs to make them more or less optional. And included other ways to generate blight faster or make it less potent.

This way you have much more flexibility with build construction. Want high blight uptime? Take vile viles and implacable foe. Dont want to use elixirs, but still want blight? Take doom approaches.

I don't think you understand the issue. What harbinger do need is way to gain blight out of shroud that are not tied to harbinger shroud, this is why the current elixirs feel mandatory as the only source of blight out of shroud. And no, blight don't need to be "less potent".

[Doctor Hide.6345]

     See, I don't see anything wrong with Harbinger personally. I think it works and is fine as is with it benching about 39k or something which is good enough for me. I couldn't care less about the build diversity and GM traits since as long as I am doing damage with conditions I am fine with it.

     I also like the gun-fu nature of it for a caster, and I think it fits the necro Witch Hunter aspect quite well.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

29 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I don't think you understand the issue. What harbinger do need is way to gain blight out of shroud that are not tied to harbinger shroud, this is why the current elixirs feel mandatory as the only source of blight out of shroud. And no, blight don't need to be "less potent".

Then vile viles can make utilities apply blight like you suggested. Why not add a trait to make blight less punishing? It would just create more build diversity.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Only thing u think harb need is to remove the ability to drop blight stacks.  Being at 50% health should be the punishment for over using harb shroud and elixirs. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

I still want a pistol offhand. 

Pistol 4 - With harbinger you're forced into elixirs because of no other utilities give blight, so here you could have pistol 4 be a blight generating skill.

Pistol 5 being a blight dumping ability, it would deal with blight based on your trait choices.

• For power builds they would be picking Wicked Corruption, spend blight for big strike damage.
• For condition builds they would be picking Septic Corruption, spending blight applies conditions
• Vile Vials is sort of a middle ground one where it could really be anything, consume blight for instant heals, apply boons, corrupt boons, transfer conditions, reduce elixir cooldowns or something, lot of possibilities with that one.

 

Utilities being usable in shroud should be a thing, Harbinger shroud offers no damage reduction or secondary life bar like core and reaper, there is no positive trade off here for being locked out of utilities in shroud, only drawbacks.

 

[Yasai.3549]

Personally I want this instead: 

- Overall thematic rework: instead of elixir chugging, you instead Exhume corpses from the ground under the player upon cast and use them as Blight Rounds. Reduces the need for the player to keep aiming at their own feet. Other than this one change, functionally the Elixirs will be mostly the same in nature, just a name, thematic and effect change. 

 

- Shroud can be entered as and when you like with no cooldown, but Shroud has several changes: 

1. Shroud skills will require certain amount of Blight Rounds to cast, but with no cooldown. 

2. Skills and Passives that would usually grant Lifeforce will now grant 1 Blight Round per instance of LF gain.

3. Can load up to 6 Blight Rounds, simulating a Revolver. More powerful skills will cost more Blight Rounds but that's more of a balance thing.

 

This will create a gameplay and thematic loop of loading up on "corpse ammo", and going into shroud to dump them. At least when someone proposes to me a Necromancer-Gunslinger, this is the sort of gameplay and thematic feel I expect. 

 

Super extra stuff: 

Shroud skills: 

Skill 1: Blight shot 

Cost : 1 Blight Round

Deals damage, inflicts conditions 

 

Skill 2: Voracious Arc

Cost: 3 Blight Rounds 

Leaps over your target, firing 3 dazing shots that inflict Conditions. 

Leap Finisher. 

 

Skill 3: Dark Barrage

Cost: 3 Blight Rounds 

Fires a group of shots in a cone shape that inflicts Conditions. 

Projectile Finisher. 

 

Skill 4: Devouring Cut

Cost: 4 Blight Rounds 

Evade backwards, leaving a corrupted gash on the ground. Enemies caught in the path of the evade will be dealt damage and crippled. The gash slows and inflicts Conditions. 

 

Skill 5: Vital Draw

Cost: 6 Blight Rounds 

Leashes up to 5 enemies around you for a few seconds, gaining 1 Blight Round from each target immediately. When the skill expires, pull them toward your location and inflict damage and Conditions.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[sdaugherty.1984]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:13 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

Overall thematic rework: instead of elixir chugging, you instead Exhume corpses from the ground under the player upon cast and use them as Blight Rounds.

Now your talking! Lets get back to the true Necromancer theme instead of the green alchemist/medic we now have. At the very least turn the class into some Apothecary type Lich/Undertaker, with this strong undead theme.

Edited March 31, 2023 by sdaugherty.1984

[Nimon.7840]

I don't think a thematic rework would ever happen.

[mirage.8046]

Harbinger would especially benefit from an off-hand pistol, considering the lack of weapon combinations, and that all we get are just two off-hands. Pistol skill 4 could be you shooting bouncing bullets that bleed and poison while you evade backward; pistol 5 could be a grappling bullet that teleports you to your foe while dazing them. The aura grandmaster traits are really boring I agree! This idea was mentioned somewhere but what if elixirs changed their effects if you entered harbinger shroud? It would flip Harbinger over its head and would make elixirs more fun to use.
My bigger issue with this spec though is its lack of defenses; this shroud no longer absorbs damage. Harbinger just gets one evade on shroud 4 which can be interrupted midair... Could've had another mobility skill like on pistol for example.