Warrior STILL sucks in pvp

[JTGuevara.9018]

ok...where do people even get this idea of warrior being "viable"?

Because of all the anti-melee GARBAGE in this overrated game (insta-blind, superspeed, mass AoEs) warrior has to work thrice as hard just to HIT THE TARGET. It doesn't matter what build you're running. It's no wonder why pvp despite all these musings about MATs stay in the toilet.

Discuss.

[SleepyBat.9034]

25 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

ok...where do people even get this idea of warrior being "viable"?

Because of all the anti-melee GARBAGE in this overrated game (insta-blind, superspeed, mass AoEs) warrior has to work thrice as hard just to HIT THE TARGET. It doesn't matter what build you're running. It's no wonder why pvp despite all these musings about MATs stay in the toilet.

Discuss.

Wait, wasn't Spellbreaker a meta-spec? When did that change?

[Lighter.5631]

it's a misused term.

 

The correct term is warrior still sucks in ranked play.

as warrior was meta in the competitive meta not long ago,

warrior always sucked in ranked play, which is what most warrior feels, even when warrior is meta in competitive 5v5s.

 

spellbreaker is still very hard to kill and hit hard, is a very decent brawler/tank

but it doesn't make good rank plays, is hard to finish targets, does little in team fight, bad mobility skills and gives no team support, other side point brawler tanks like hammer cata/chrono gives very good team boon/support which bring up their ranked play potential by a lot, as the performance of your teammate is completely random

the entire point of spellbreaker being meta in competitive is to hold a point and be a distraction and be completely selfish, while other teammates do all the work, which obviously will not work in ranked. unless you duoq with one of those classes.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[JTGuevara.9018]

9 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Wait, wasn't Spellbreaker a meta-spec? When did that change?

Because people see what they want to see. Spellbreaker somehow manages to win one of these goofy tournaments and all of a sudden it's "meta"!

[JTGuevara.9018]

3 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

it's a misused term.

 

The correct term is warrior still sucks in ranked play.

as warrior was meta in the competitive meta not long ago,

warrior always sucked in ranked play, which is what most warrior feels, even when warrior is meta in competitive 5v5s.

 

spellbreaker is still very hard to kill and hit hard, is a very decent brawler/tank

but it doesn't make good rank plays, is hard to finish targets, does little in team fight, bad mobility skills and gives no team support, other side point brawler tanks like hammer cata/chrono gives very good team boon/support which bring up their ranked play potential by a lot, as the performance of your teammate is completely random

the entire point of spellbreaker being meta is to hold a point and be a distraction and be completely selfish, while other teammates do all the work.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

it's a misused term.

 

The correct term is warrior still sucks in ranked play.

as warrior was meta in the competitive meta not long ago,

warrior always sucked in ranked play, which is what most warrior feels, even when warrior is meta in competitive 5v5s.

 

spellbreaker is still very hard to kill and hit hard, is a very decent brawler/tank

but it doesn't make good rank plays, is hard to finish targets, does little in team fight, bad mobility skills and gives no team support, other side point brawler tanks like hammer cata/chrono gives very good team boon/support which bring up their ranked play potential by a lot, as the performance of your teammate is completely random

the entire point of spellbreaker being meta is to hold a point and be a distraction and be completely selfish, while other teammates do all the work.

 

 

If it's misused, then it's the responsibility of those pushing the idea to CLEAR IT UP. Otherwise, you're just misleading people.

And yes, warrior was never all that good in ranked to begin with. Look at all this anti-melee stuff that exists (blind, mass AoEs, protection) Warrior has to work way too hard just to keep up.

But oh...! People still complain because "boohoo I get stunned!".

But it's very telling that this spellbreaker "meta" barely lasted much at all! It's almost as if people hate warriors showing 'em up.

[Shagie.7612]

eh, def spb is still fine, it was really braindead, especially condi spb
the def traitline carries warrior entirely tbh, you can't really play without it any more on any build. resilient roll and cleansing ire are just that good.

i do think warrior needs weapon kits and a lot of older design philosophies looked though. things that heavily hurt the class and are being covered up by a trait or two (ones that are arguably overtuned on their own).
like, have fun trying to hit superspeed with any of the gapcloser attacks, and superspeed is everywhere now

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

eh, def spb is still fine, it was really braindead, especially condi spb
the def traitline carries warrior entirely tbh, you can't really play without it any more on any build. resilient roll and cleansing ire are just that good.

i do think warrior needs weapon kits and a lot of older design philosophies looked though. things that heavily hurt the class and are being covered up by a trait or two (ones that are arguably overtuned on their own).
like, have fun trying to hit superspeed with any of the gapcloser attacks, and superspeed is everywhere now

"condi spb"

What is this BS? This is the situational  "hope the other guy has a condi build" spellbraker build. Nothing more. How in Hades do people think this is "meta"?

Even with those build modifications, you're still not putting out anything as strong as harb, virtuoso, etc or even berzerker...

Edited April 2, 2023 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

it's a misused term.

 

The correct term is warrior still sucks in ranked play.

as warrior was meta in the competitive meta not long ago,

warrior always sucked in ranked play, which is what most warrior feels, even when warrior is meta in competitive 5v5s.

 

spellbreaker is still very hard to kill and hit hard, is a very decent brawler/tank

but it doesn't make good rank plays, is hard to finish targets, does little in team fight, bad mobility skills and gives no team support, other side point brawler tanks like hammer cata/chrono gives very good team boon/support which bring up their ranked play potential by a lot, as the performance of your teammate is completely random

the entire point of spellbreaker being meta in competitive is to hold a point and be a distraction and be completely selfish, while other teammates do all the work, which obviously will not work in ranked. unless you duoq with one of those classes.

 

 

I find that in soloqueue ranked, I'm generally better off playing a healbreaker-style build. Still has decent damage and control while bringing some party support. No support on your team? You're it. You're not a guard or tempest, but you're better than nothing. One other support? Expect them to be trained by the other team while nobody else in the team provides effective peeling, so depending on circumstances, you're either the backup, or you can focus on CCing the enemies piling on them and giving them a bit of extra support to give them a chance to do their job. Two other supports? Switch to the meta defence hammerbreaker.

Can be a bit vulnerable to CCs in turn, but the stability/resistance banner can help there.

Biggest problem is people assuming you're playing the meta tournament build, and that there's even odds of being flamed if you reveal you're playing something else.

[Peacekid.1463]

nah look at boyce play all suck if he uses warrior

[Infinity.2876]

I think anet made warrior to be the example of a class not ridiculous, and is trying to nerf and buff all other classes to it's standard only pausing to nerf several traits that are "broken" on warrior when the meta changes.

 

Last patch notes nerfed counterattack frame on full counter and that was it.

[JTGuevara.9018]

10 hours ago, Peacekid.1463 said:

nah look at boyce play all suck if he uses warrior

I don't even know who that is!

I have a life outside of the internet and this game...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I don't even know who that is!

I have a life outside of the internet and this game...

A known high achieving PvPer that prefers warrior but is also known to play other classes. Boyce is the kind of player that will win no matter what they play but people who refuse to believe that warrior needs work often point to him, Vaans, ButterPeanut, and Tycura as reasons why warrior shouldn't be buffed, because there are a few players that do well with them (when they'll play well no matter what they play!).

Its like pointing to Lord Hizen existing as a reason to not buff warrior in PvE, when Hizen plays all the classes and does well with them all.

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

A known high achieving PvPer that prefers warrior but is also known to play other classes. Boyce is the kind of player that will win no matter what they play but people who refuse to believe that warrior needs work often point to him, Vaans, ButterPeanut, and Tycura as reasons why warrior shouldn't be buffed, because there are a few players that do well with them (when they'll play well no matter what they play!).

Its like pointing to Lord Hizen existing as a reason to not buff warrior in PvE, when Hizen plays all the classes and does well with them all.

Oh ok...warrior "jesus" then...can turn water into wine with any build. So people can point out and say, "See, HE can make warrior work!" I used to be the same way years ago: 'Warrior's fine! If I can make it work, people need to stop complaining!'

Yeah...what 'logic' eh?

 

[Lighter.5631]

5 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Oh ok...warrior "jesus" then...can turn water into wine with any build. So people can point out and say, "See, HE can make warrior work!" I used to be the same way years ago: 'Warrior's fine! If I can make it work, people need to stop complaining!'

Yeah...what 'logic' eh?

 

the original post is like boyce plays all suck if he plays warrior, that means even top player like boyce will suck playing warrior, which is why he barely plays any now, even it is his favorite class

[JTGuevara.9018]

6 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

the original post is like boyce plays all suck if he plays warrior, that means even top player like boyce will suck playing warrior, which is why he barely plays any now, even it is his favorite class

Well, that situation really tells it all doesn't it? If warrior "jesus" can't make it work, then what is even the point? Warrior, in this action combat system, perpetually struggles no matter what unless three things happen:

1. Anti-melee mechanics (superspeed, blind, mass AoEs) are drastically nerfed, reworked or removed.

2. Action combat system is overhauled in favor of gw1's tab-targeting and rooted casts.

3. Warrior is overhauled and brought up to the powercreeped absurdity of catalyst, virtuoso, willbender, harbinger, scrapper, etc.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think only one of those three needs to happen. The last one. Although I would die laughing if a set of patch notes came out with the preamble that "blinds are their own reward..."

[JTGuevara.9018]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think only one of those three needs to happen. The last one. Although I would die laughing if a set of patch notes came out with the preamble that "blinds are their own reward..."

Oooh...I'm SO waiting for that...I already have a few quips and one-liners locked, loaded and ready to go if that preamble comes to fruition! I'll post it on the patch thread!

[Myror.7521]

@Peacekid.1463 yep and even He Play Ranger instead now...... Just think about it xD.

[Gerebos.1065]

The truth is that this expansion is not our expansion xD

Now warrior is balanced in the hand of proper people but the sad truth about games is that every game is optimized from the play and info of these top elite players.

They do the math and rotations and all and the developers optimize the classes around.This can be painful for casuals and mediums but in the long run is still the best option.

As personal experience on warrior,which I love in every game I play,here is GW2 I just feel as burden for my team which cannot properly do a good in any situation,be it supp,bunker or dps.

For DPS I need tons of stability and speed/survivability to land any damage for adrenaline which in a team fight is a luxury.

For bunker I can be a good damage soaker for around 12 seconds and good bait for noobs but any good player will switch target immediately and with no proper damage dealing anyone can solo you or just leave you where you are and not waste time with you.

For support I even crafted full ascended celestial gear just to try how it works with healing...now without proper healing abilities ehh,not really works out.Celestial opens up tons of new windows but for support I roll guardian or druid.

Now for spellbreaker ,when you meet a foe which can keep the distance even with a short bow and it happens that you don't have any skill to cache up the distance you are done with all the blocks and retaliations.

I found 2 ways to use the warr.

The bunker support,draw the enemy fire as long as you can from your teammates,but as I said it mostly works against newbies and some lazy people.

Berserker,pump up the adrenaline,jump between the enemy do as much damage you can and die peacefully ,don't worry you probably will never survive so make a hotkey for homing xD

Right now the warrior is behind with everything,almost anyone can do twice better what we do...we had some glory in main game and PoF but maybe the next will give us our glory back.

[Hotride.2187]

I don't think spb sucks for pvp. It was fine before eod, not great, not meta, not amazing. Just fine. With current defense it would've been meta in the old meta, but the old meta doesn't exist. So its fine again as far as I'm concerned. Even a bit above fine tbh, defense is really strong. Its just that you aren't a mobile nuke machine (that doesn't die in 5 seconds) and the demand is for those right now.

Rest of war sucks yeah.

[Greyrat.2378]

I find Spb fine even in hands of average player, but it's clear that it's being carried by defense traitline (just like basically almost any other current warr build) and FC.

Sure, there are better options right now but it's not like you are griefing your team by playing Spb as opposite to something like hammer zerker where you can nuke people with 8-10k crits while providing decent amount of CC, but all of it is negated by blind or aegis and stab, so most of the time it's literally coin flip whether you are going to have some kind of impact on the game or not.

I don't know if it sucks but it's viable to some degree.

However I agree that it does not fit the current meta and it requires specific environment where it can really thrive, which is something that is probably not going to happen considering the current power creep of other classes.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Greyrat.2378
spelling

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 4/2/2023 at 5:18 AM, Peacekid.1463 said:

nah look at boyce play all suck if he uses warrior

 

"One guy wins with a butter knife, it must be good."

Has the ominous potential energy of "this one class beat me, it must be busted. " and is not a balancing metric. Even Boyce points out issues with the class. I hate when people ignore the effort invested because they're too distracted by the result. 

3 hours ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

I find Spb fine even in hands of average player, but it's clear that it's being carried by defense traitline (just like basically almost any other current warr build) and FC.

Sure, there are better options right now but it's not like you are griefing your team by playing Spb as opposite to something like hammer zerker where you can nuke people with 8-10k crits while providing decent amount of CC, but all of it is negated by blind or aegis and stab, so most of the time it's literally coin flip whether you are going to have some kind of impact on the game or not.

I don't know if it sucks but it's viable to some degree.

However I agree that it does not fit the current meta and it requires specific environment where it can really thrive, which is something that is probably not going to happen considering the current power creep of other classes.

Spb is fine and is carried by defense. Correct. 

Regarding zerker:

Balanced take, but don't sugarcoat it. 

What I want is more reasonable opportunities  to create the environment mentioned. If you cannot balance the classes in a way that makes that environment more accessible, you must hand warrior the tools to create it itself. Otherwise "it sucks" is an apt descriptor. Viable in some scenarios where the opponent has multiple avenues to prevent the scenario from happening can very easily just be a euphemistic "nonviable."

Edited April 4, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[JTGuevara.9018]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

"One guy wins with a butter knife, it must be good."

Has the ominous potential energy of "this one class beat me, it must be busted. " and is not a balancing metric. Even Boyce points out issues with the class. I hate when people ignore the effort invested because they're too distracted by the result. 

Welcome to current society, where people get attached to their preferred celebrity they like who tells them want they want to hear.

 

On 4/3/2023 at 4:01 PM, Gerebos.1065 said:

The truth is that this expansion is not our expansion xD

Now warrior is balanced in the hand of proper people but the sad truth about games is that every game is optimized from the play and info of these top elite players.

They do the math and rotations and all and the developers optimize the classes around.This can be painful for casuals and mediums but in the long run is still the best option.

As personal experience on warrior,which I love in every game I play,here is GW2 I just feel as burden for my team which cannot properly do a good in any situation,be it supp,bunker or dps.

For DPS I need tons of stability and speed/survivability to land any damage for adrenaline which in a team fight is a luxury.

For bunker I can be a good damage soaker for around 12 seconds and good bait for noobs but any good player will switch target immediately and with no proper damage dealing anyone can solo you or just leave you where you are and not waste time with you.

For support I even crafted full ascended celestial gear just to try how it works with healing...now without proper healing abilities ehh,not really works out.Celestial opens up tons of new windows but for support I roll guardian or druid.

Now for spellbreaker ,when you meet a foe which can keep the distance even with a short bow and it happens that you don't have any skill to cache up the distance you are done with all the blocks and retaliations.

I found 2 ways to use the warr.

The bunker support,draw the enemy fire as long as you can from your teammates,but as I said it mostly works against newbies and some lazy people.

Berserker,pump up the adrenaline,jump between the enemy do as much damage you can and die peacefully ,don't worry you probably will never survive so make a hotkey for homing xD

Right now the warrior is behind with everything,almost anyone can do twice better what we do...we had some glory in main game and PoF but maybe the next will give us our glory back.

See, this is the problem: assuming that warrior is good when "put in the right hands". It doesn't matter whose hands it ends up in. Bottom line: warrior still sucks in pvp.

[eXruina.4956]

spellbreaker this, spellbreaker that, spellbreaker is not the only warrior spec, and though spellbreaker has some strong mechanics, its not even remotely close to the broken kitten that are out there.

 

and the only thing really keeping many of these broken kitten in check are the gear restrictions in pvp.

Edited April 5, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

spellbreaker this, spellbreaker that, spellbreaker is not the only warrior spec, and though spellbreaker has some strong mechanics, its not even remotely close to the broken kitten that are out there.

I guess it is an argument that other professions have about 2 different spec on the lvl of spb that they can play in conquest. But the topic is about war and war has access to spb. To put spb in the same basket as berserker and bladesworn (I'll ignore core since only guard and necro can play core at this point)... that is just wrong. If the topic was "berserker and bladesworn suck in pvp", sure.