Willbender

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

21 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

 

Started the fight with 7k hp, 4 big cooldowns unavailable and missed lot of abilities that should have hit? Won anyways. Time to go to forums to complain about enemy class with this video evidence I just got  😏

9k hp and Emergency Elixier popped(3k barrier and 3 seconds protection). This helped me survive the initial burst(which isn´t that high since he plays cele). Elixier S and U are important stunbreaks, but willbender only has soft-CC, so it doesn´t matter. And now pls explain to me why the fight was so close, when the only thing the willbender did was spamming attacks?

Edit: Also ignoring the fact that this dude has footman rank.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kaktus Jack.9730

[Dawdler.8521]

21 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Time to go to forums to complain about enemy class with this video evidence I just got  😏

Reminds me of that time when someone posted a pro roamer spellbreaker video at the height of its OPness, with one of the clips being a 1v4 where he pretty much insta-downed 3 of them, then the clip cut out.

I posted a response video and noted yeah I also had a 4v1 vs a spellbreaker recently and look how fast he downed 3 of my mates because they made they mistake of being too bunched up but after I continued 1v1 against him just fine.

*squints*

Wait. Hold up.

 🤦‍♂️

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:26 PM, Sonork.2916 said:

Most classes have some spec that can fight WBs,  so I dunno what to tell you.  If you're really having problems just play a cele harb and hold down shroud 1 while traited into Dhuumfire.  There! You did it!  XD

Fight one OP EoD spec with another OP EoD spec.  Makes sense!

[Hotride.2187]

12 hours ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Willbender played pretty stupid, maybe unexperienced judging by his rank. But the fact he almost killed me even tho he face tanked so much damage is beyond stupid.

Took 80% of the WBs hp from just rotating camera, throwing grenades and running in a straight line. Sure, sure, the wb design is the beyond stupid part here.

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

3 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Took 80% of the WBs hp from just rotating camera, throwing grenades and running in a straight line. Sure, sure, the wb design is the beyond stupid part here.

How about not running in a straight line behind me.

Edit: Sry I didn´t want to confuse anyone with this complex idea.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kaktus Jack.9730

[Hotride.2187]

10 minutes ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

How about not running in a straight line behind me.

Edit: Sry I didn´t want to confuse anyone with this complex idea.

And how exactly do you propose for the wb to chase you down? Should it zig zag maybe?

Cause the only option here is to not chase you and to hope you turn around and fight. Or you are fine that no one should solo chase a scrapper?

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

10 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

And how exactly do you propose for the wb to chase you down? Should it zig zag maybe?

Cause the only option here is to not chase you and to hope you turn around and fight. Or you are fine that no one should solo chase a scrapper?

Thanks to the stealth and switching directions, willbender had to use his mobility skills to catch up. At this point, he should have given up, but he didn´t.

Edit: BTW scrapper is no the only class that can stealth and kite away. There are classes and specs that can do that far better. Shortbow thief, sb/druid smokecalse/greatsword combo, mesmer stealth and blink, mechanist elixier S, rocket jump and teleport.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kaktus Jack.9730

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Thanks to the stealth and switching directions, willbender had to use his mobility skills to catch up. At this point, he should have given up, but he didn´t.

Edit: BTW scrapper is no the only class that can stealth and kite away. There are classes and specs that can do that far better. Shortbow thief, sb/druid smokecalse/greatsword combo, mesmer stealth and blink, mechanist elixier S, rocket jump and teleport.

This argument is like children saying stealing is ok because the other children do it too.

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

14 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

This argument is like children saying stealing is ok because the other children do it too.

So remove stealth completly or what do you suggest?

Edit: I mean it could have been the other way around if the willbender decided to disengage I wouldn´t be able to catch him. The difference is, that the willbender made a mistake and played bad. Now image this willbender would have been someone better.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kaktus Jack.9730

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Edit: BTW scrapper is no the only class that can stealth and kite away. There are classes and specs that can do that far better. Shortbow thief, sb/druid smokecalse/greatsword combo, mesmer stealth and blink, mechanist elixier S, rocket jump and teleport.

And those other builds, they throw grenades at you while they run in a straight line too? Or its only scrapper and holo?

I'm fine with this in conquest since you have a job, and that job is not chasing down a scrapper. But in wvw what else is there to do but chase.

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

And those other builds, they throw grenades at you while they run in a straight line too? Or its only scrapper and holo?

I'm fine with this in conquest since you have a job, and that job is not chasing down a scrapper. But in wvw what else is there to do but chase.

Why do you try to derail this discussion about a willbender who face tanked so much damage and played stupid, but still almost killed me. The willbender has footman rank while I m at rank 4,5k like this means nothing in terms of skill. Also you can completly nullifie the scrapper with reflect. One simple tool and you take away so much damage from scrapper. My build is also a memebuild for max burst damage, without any condition cleanse, but let us pls ignore the willbender problem.

[Dr Meta.3158]

9 minutes ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

So remove stealth completly or what do you suggest?

Edit: I mean it could have been the other way around if the willbender decided to disengage I wouldn´t be able to catch him. The difference is, that the willbender made a mistake and played bad. Now image this willbender would have been someone better.

Removing stealth completely would be easiest for this game especially since its not optimized enough to handle its current implementation.

But there are other ways to rework stealth so that it doesn't have to be removed but serves as utility rather than an abusive combat mechanic. On example is such:

1. You are visible within a range of 360 of enemies.

2. Your footsteps are audible within a range of 600 if enemies.

3. You are revealed if CC'd.

 

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

Just now, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Removing stealth completely would be easiest for this game especially since its not optimized enough to handle its current implementation.

But there are other ways to rework stealth so that it doesn't have to be removed but serves as utility rather than an abusive combat mechanic. On example is such:

1. You are visible within a range of 360 of enemies.

2. Your footsteps are audible within a range of 600 if enemies.

3. You are revealed if CC'd.

 

Yea but thats a whole nother topic. What does this have to do with a bad willbender facetanking so much damage and still almost come out on top?

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 minute ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Yea but thats a whole nother topic. What does this have to do with a bad willbender facetanking so much damage and still almost come out on top?

 

17 minutes ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

So remove stealth completly or what do you suggest?

Do you have amnesia?

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

7 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

 

Do you have amnesia?

I asked this dude what he wanted to tell me with his post, I didnt came up with that point.

Edit: So DrMeta pls eplain to me what you think about willbender and why? Why his survivability, easy boon generation, burst potential and mobility isn´t overtuned? After that I m gladly answering more questions about the scrapper under a willbender post.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kaktus Jack.9730

[Dr Meta.3158]

10 minutes ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

I asked this dude what he wanted to tell me with his post, I didnt came up with that point.

Edit: So DrMeta pls eplain to me what you think about willbender and why? Why his survivability, easy boon generation, burst potential and mobility isn´t overtuned? After that I m gladly answering more questions about the scrapper under a willbender post.

You asked me so I answered. I still don't know why you were confused it.

Willbender is overturned but it is an end of dragon specialization. They all are going to be overturned until the next expansion. Its not about ensuring balance its about ensuring profits.

[Hotride.2187]

18 minutes ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Why do you try to derail this discussion about a willbender who face tanked so much damage and played stupid, but still almost killed me.

Cause you are playing an equally dumb/broken build and saying how the wb one is stupid. WB is hardly an outlier in wvw.

 

[Kaktus Jack.9730]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Cause you are playing an equally dumb/broken build and saying how the wb one is stupid. WB is hardly an outlier in wvw.

 

Now I m curios since willbender is hardly an outlier, who else comes to mind?

[Hotride.2187]

24 minutes ago, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Now I m curios since willbender is hardly an outlier, who else comes to mind?

For power builds: SB/DD/DE/vindi

For cele see the recent cele thread. Or just metabattle, it lists enough of them.

[Choya.2687]

Well Willbender is perfect for selling EoD for WvW people.

(I won't talk about catalyst and harbinger)

[solemn.9670]

I'll say the same thing about wellbender as I said about catalyst... 

If you nerf it, nerf every other problem build/unbalanced build with it. Otherwise you just take away another "equally unbalanced" build from the pool and make the other unbalanced builds that much worse.

Totally understand what everyone finds annoying about it. But everything in this game is annoying now. So yeah. At least it can defeat all the other annoying things and most of the other annoying things can, in fact, defeat willbender as well.

A lot of ppl just die stupidly, don't reflect on their mistakes at all bc they don't even know what they did wrong bc they don't put in any effort into understanding how they just died (usually it's DERRRR I STOOD IN THE DAMAGE DERRRRRRRRR), and then run to the forums to cry unbalanced. 

[Math.5123]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:33 PM, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

Why do you try to derail this discussion about a willbender who face tanked so much damage and played stupid, but still almost killed me. The willbender has footman rank while I m at rank 4,5k like this means nothing in terms of skill. Also you can completly nullifie the scrapper with reflect. One simple tool and you take away so much damage from scrapper. My build is also a memebuild for max burst damage, without any condition cleanse, but let us pls ignore the willbender problem.

You're not strengthening your argument by saying "my build is also a meme build".

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:26 PM, Sonork.2916 said:

Most classes have some spec that can fight WBs,  so I dunno what to tell you.  If you're really having problems just play a cele harb and hold down shroud 1 while traited into Dhuumfire.  There! You did it!  XD

Except the part where you don't lose, but 3 seconds later they are twice combat range away from you, mounted, and looking for someone else to fight.

[MedievalThings.5417]

16 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

I'll say the same thing about wellbender as I said about catalyst... 

If you nerf it, nerf every other problem build/unbalanced build with it. Otherwise you just take away another "equally unbalanced" build from the pool and make the other unbalanced builds that much worse.

Totally understand what everyone finds annoying about it. But everything in this game is annoying now. So yeah. At least it can defeat all the other annoying things and most of the other annoying things can, in fact, defeat willbender as well.

A lot of ppl just die stupidly, don't reflect on their mistakes at all bc they don't even know what they did wrong bc they don't put in any effort into understanding how they just died (usually it's DERRRR I STOOD IN THE DAMAGE DERRRRRRRRR), and then run to the forums to cry unbalanced. 

The damage isn't really the problem, it's the mobility.  Although, it is not the only outlier with regards to mobility, looking at you 3 dodge daredevil (which has never made sense in terms of balance).

[Sonork.2916]

4 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

The damage isn't really the problem, it's the mobility.  

Who can match WB mobility?  lets see,

1. Thief - easily surpasses
2. Mesmer - yup
3. Warrior - with right weapons/skills
4. Ranger - with right weapons/skills
5. Ele - yup
6. Engi - easily surpasses
7. Necro - nah.
8. Revenant - Good chase, but overall, nah.

And if WB can't target anything to JI to, it's mobility is worse than all of the above.  Mmmm-maybe not necro.

WB is however extremely good at chasing.   JI and sword 2 need enemy targets for their full mobility, chasing is probably what WB most excels at.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Sonork.2916