[Poll] Should we be able to hide other players' skyscales?

[Gibson.4036]

If they could go transparent when your camera gets close, like turtles, it would be a nice improvement.

[Sobx.1758]

We shouldn't. But not much issue with transparent turtle treatment.

Although from what I recently learned in another thread, some people might have an issue with that since anet didn't care about making them transparent before, so why would they suddenly change that now? Personally I don't understand that reasoning -I don't know, maybe that exact same reasoning from another thread wouldn't apply here, for whatever reason unknown to me.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Poormany.4507]

6 hours ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

Wait, people get shiny mount skins just to show off and not because they like how they look? Are they expecting someone to whisper them and say "wow! you paid money for that! that is SO cool!" or something?

Probably a mix of both, but yes. Same reason people wear expensive/overpriced designer clothing in public and ride around in fancy/overpriced cars irl.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[slpr.2647]

Im on the fence on this one.  at times, like when in AB, waiting on TM, to see so many skyscales hovering, waiting, looks pretty cool. BUT, and ill use AB again, waiting at the gates of the Octo meta, some yahoo hovering about (gonna use RL measurements here) about 12-15ft off the ground, with its wings flappin in my face and kickin up dust, gets kinda annoying. i know, someones gonna come along and say, "well, just move"  where my reply is gonna be, "hover your kitten skyscale 20 ft higher to get it outta my face" 

I love my Skyscale, i have a bunch a nice skins that i think i have dyed pretty sick, but i never hover in anyone elses face, its rude, imo,  id just appreciate if they'd give me the same respect 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Context might be lost on some people here, but a big flying skyscale controlled by another player being made semi-transparent so players can see would be a big bonus.  The skyscales are rather large.  Thing is, I don't know if it has a practical use.  The turtle turns transparent because it's got combat abilities and can be used in a zerg to fight.  Could you imagine how difficult it would be to see anything going on between the effect bloat and the mounts if the turtles didn't go transparent?  The skyscale doesn't have that many active combat abilities that don't dismount people.  I could just see this as a general QOL update tho that turns other people's mounts transparent when your camera is near them so they can't block the screen if you're doing a jumping puzzle.

[casualkenny.9817]

The best part about having the option is that

1) those who vote yes can turn it off and get what they want

2) those who vote no because they don't find the option useful can ignore the option

3) those who vote no because they want to force others to see them, will never know that their shiny has been muted

 

It's (almost) perfect

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I don't really care one way or the other, but I'd hope implementing it didn't cause something I did care about to be delayed or not implemented, at all.  There are only so many resources to go around. 

[The Boz.2038]

On 4/8/2023 at 2:42 PM, Hotride.2187 said:

What if I tell you about the existing option that lowers player model quality and quantity?

And guarantee you absolutely get wrecked in WvW and Raids.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Are there Skyscales in WvW and Raids??

[Luthan.5236]

There is the problem that this kind of stuff comes with skins sold on the gem store - where people want to show off. And they would buy less ... if other people could just decide not to see it.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

There is the problem that this kind of stuff comes with skins sold on the gem store - where people want to show off. And they would buy less ... if other people could just decide not to see it.

Yup, it doesn't matter what % of people "buy to show off", it matters that some surely do, so implementing that option has a high potential to cut the sales. People who want to hide effects probably won't somehow start buying more because effects can be hidden.

[Hotride.2187]

6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

And guarantee you absolutely get wrecked in WvW and Raids.

No idea about raids but gl playing wvw without that option. I've been using lowest model quantity for like forever. If you can't move with your zerg and anticipate enemy zerg movements despite the option, your place is probably not with the zerg anyway.

[Furball.1236]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:09 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, it doesn't matter what % of people "buy to show off", it matters that some surely do, so implementing that option has a high potential to cut the sales. People who want to hide effects probably won't somehow start buying more because effects can be hidden.

I don't believe we're in the place to teach ANet what to do to make profits. They know much better than us. As players, our role is to provide feedback of our gameplay.

 

However, if I'm to reply to such comments already posted here, I'd say I can hardly imagine the skyscale skins purchased by these people would affect the total profit Guild Wars 2 makes for Anet.

We're talking about such a small fraction of Gem Store purchases:

(1) Only skyscale skins out of so many items in the gem store

(2) Only a couple of purchase per player for what each player's favorite skins.--1 single purchase for a mount skin, unlike multiple armor pieces or weapons you need to buy to customize your character or consumables you would buy repeatedly.

(3) Only purchases from people whose main purpose is to show off, rather than to enjoy the skins themselves

 

What this kind of QoL (quality of life) changes could prevent is the stress during our game play, which then improves the impression of this game and let people play longer. This will also prevent people avoiding open world metas (as mentioned by a few of us here already), which is a big appealing point of GW2.

I believe having long-term active players and having them engaging more to the open world contents is much more beneficial for the game than short-term profits from the gem store skyscale skins.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Furball.1236 said:

I don't believe we're in the place to teach ANet what to do to make profits. They know much better than us. As players, our role is to provide feedback of our gameplay.

I don't think they need to be taught about that, it was more pointing out the obvious to some people here who might have missed that. 

6 minutes ago, Furball.1236 said:

I believe having long-term active players and having them engaging more to the open world contents is much more beneficial for the game than short-term profits from the gem store skyscale skins.

You're literally talking about playes who are already long-term active players being engaged in the content. I don't think that change would impact anything in a direction you're talking about here.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Furball.1236]

So putting the "let us players think what's the smartest thing ANet can do for their company's profit" aspect of the discussion aside....

 

I think this graphic option to modify the skyscale character model can be included in the Display Presets ("Best Performance," "Autodetect," "Best Appearance").

I want my game to look pretty and this includes shiny armors and shiny skyscales. But in certain areas or during certain events where this can cause issues with my gameplay, I prefer to hide or partially hide other people's skyscales.

 

People who only want to show off their skyscales should understand many of us wishes to hide the skyscales only because they've annoyed us. Claiming the right to show off their skins knowing there are other players suffering doesn't sound right.

 

Imagine PvP or WvW players complaining about other players can hide their shiny armors just so they can show off their characters. Without limiting graphics, those game modes will be unplayable for many of us.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Furball.1236 said:

I want my game to look pretty and this includes shiny armors and shiny skyscales. But in certain areas or during certain events where this can cause issues with my gameplay, I prefer to hide or partially hide other people's skyscales.

Tbh throughout my gameplay I didn't notice skyscales to be an issue, where are they so problematic? I get the turtles since they can be used in-combat, but the skyscales can't. I don't think I every thought they somehow obscure combat or the way I'm going in.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Furball.1236]

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't think they need to be taught about that, it was more pointing out the obvious to some people here who might have missed that. 

You're literally talking about playes who are already long-term active players being engaged in the content. I don't think that change would impact anything in a direction you're talking about here.

No, what I meant was people who otherwise would engage more to the open world contents could've been long-term active players. Answering to your second post, you can find other players' examples of frustration in this post.

[Sobx.1758]

41 minutes ago, Furball.1236 said:

No, what I meant was people who otherwise would engage more to the open world contents could've been long-term active players. Answering to your second post, you can find other players' examples of frustration in this post.

I saw one post saying it's when they're idling, waiting for an event, at which point... move slightly to the side? Or don't, you're still idling so not much influences any "gameplay" there. 
And another post which claimed HoT hp train comm used to ask people not to use skyscales so they don't obstruct where the train is going and that they... recently gave up on that or something? If anything, I saw commies ask to use base mounts (or they're simply informing others they -the commander leading the hp train- will use base mounts or griffon) so the other players can catch up easier. I think this is literally the first time I've heard the claim about hp trains not using skyscale to... not obstruct the way. Hence:

55 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Tbh throughout my gameplay I didn't notice skyscales to be an issue, where are they so problematic? I get the turtles since they can be used in-combat, but the skyscales can't. I don't think I every thought they somehow obscure combat or the way I'm going in.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Furball.1236 said:

No, what I meant was people who otherwise would engage more to the open world contents could've been long-term active players. Answering to your second post, you can find other players' examples of frustration in this post.

It can be difficult for some to believe people have issues they haven’t experienced themselves.

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It can be difficult for some to believe people have issues they haven’t experienced themselves.

Not really, it's just that hp trains only using basic gliding/mounts (or even just raptor) isn't aimed at some "road/comm obstruction"(?), it's aimed at newer players with low mounts/masteries unlocks. At least those are the only ones I ever saw and never even heard about the reasoning you've mentioned here. For now I don't seem to be getting any response how it's supposed to be somehow obstructing those trains either so... 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

22 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Not really, it's just that hp trains only using basic gliding/mounts (or even just raptor) isn't aimed at some "road/comm obstruction"(?), it's aimed at newer players with low mounts/masteries unlocks. At least those are the only ones I ever saw and never even heard about the reasoning you've mentioned here. For now I don't seem to be getting any response how it's supposed to be somehow obstructing those trains either so... 🤷‍♂️

So following Hero Point Trains is difficult for those without the more advanced mounts even if the tag is only using raptor and springer  or just glider with mesmer ports.  They (the commander) has no power over  what other mounts players following them will use and being able to see the tag and follow them through a sea of people is difficult enough.  Throw in 20 or so skyscales, turtles, etc.  and it becomes more difficult.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

So following Hero Point Trains is difficult for those without the more advanced mounts even if the tag is only using raptor and springer  or just glider with mesmer ports.

What's the reasoning for what you just wrote? Why is it hard to follow commander without advanced mounts when the commander isn't using more advanced mounts?

1 hour ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

  They (the commander) has no power over  what other mounts players following them will use and being able to see the tag and follow them through a sea of people is difficult enough.  Throw in 20 or so skyscales, turtles, etc.  and it becomes more difficult.

Commander tag is rather well visible, there's also minimap for a reason and no amount of skyscales can obstruct where the commander is heading. Rather obviously commanders paying attention to players not having advanced mounts don't make it some competition to run away from a group, they're usually waiting for everyone so it's not like you'll miss a turn.

And again, the post I quoted said "commander told people not to use skyscales because of visibility and they apparently resigned resently due to whatever reason". But that's not the reasoning for commanders in hp trains not using advanced mounts, it's having similar mobility options to the newer players those trains are targeted at in the first place.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What's the reasoning for what you just wrote? Why is it hard to follow commander without advanced mounts when the commander isn't using more advanced mounts?

Commander tag is rather well visible, there's also minimap for a reason and no amount of skyscales can obstruct where the commander is heading. Rather obviously commanders paying attention to players not having advanced mounts don't make it some competition to run away from a group, they're usually waiting for everyone so it's not like you'll miss a turn.

And again, the post I quoted said "commander told people not to use skyscales because of visibility and they apparently resigned resently due to whatever reason". But that's not the reasoning for commanders in hp trains not using advanced mounts, it's having similar mobility options to the newer players those trains are targeted at in the first place.

This was explained further in the paragraph I wrote.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Commander tag is rather well visible, there's also minimap for a reason and no amount of skyscales can obstruct where the commander is heading. Rather obviously commanders paying attention to players not having advanced mounts don't make it some competition to run away from a group, they're usually waiting for everyone so it's not like you'll miss a turn.

And again, the post I quoted said "commander told people not to use skyscales because of visibility and they apparently resigned resently due to whatever reason". But that's not the reasoning for commanders in hp trains not using advanced mounts, it's having similar mobility options to the newer players those trains are targeted at in the first place.

So here's the issue; Visibility for new players isn't as straightforwards and easily understood by them as it is for us who've been in the game playing it for a while (You and I).  We know how to tweak our settings and block out the visual noise that does occur (Wing flaps from skyscales, big particle nonsense, etc.)  New players won't know what settings to turn down/off (And lowering player model limit may hide the commander) and won't have the knowledge of what to ignore when attempting to follow a tag.  New players also won't have the intrinsic knowledge of where the tag will be going next.  They haven't done the paths for hero points or map metas hundreds of times to have at least the general path memorized, so they won't be able to effectively predict where the tag is going either.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Epsilon Indi.2031

[Sobx.1758]

36 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

This was explained further in the paragraph I wrote.

So here's the issue; Visibility for new players isn't as straightforwards and easily understood by them as it is for us who've been in the game playing it for a while (You and I).  We know how to tweak our settings and block out the visual noise that does occur (Wing flaps from skyscales, big particle nonsense, etc.)  New players won't know what settings to turn down/off (And lowering player model limit may hide the commander)

I didn't do anything to counteract any potential skyscale visual noise so what I'm saying here is from that exact perspective. Commander using base mounts so newer players can keep up doesn't race the group to lose said newer players. Commanders using base mounts isn't "because skyscales block vision or something", but "because newer players don't have the advanced ones". Minimap isn't hard to use and it's clear where the tag is moving (if you somehow really don't see the train because of skyscales, although I still don't know how that's supposed to work? You don't see the train because the train is in the way?).

36 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

and won't have the knowledge of what to ignore when attempting to follow a tag.

I don't know what this part is about tbh. Was I supposed to ignore something to be able to follow the hp train? Because I'm not sure I ever did? There's a commander tag, there's a group of players following the tag... in what world am I supposed to not see any of that because of someone skyscale/s? How?

Keep in mind that I wasn't rushing for skyscale at all, so I did play without it when a lot of the people already "spammed" it. I still don't understand how they are supposed to make it any harder to follow any train or group.

36 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

They haven't done the paths for hero points or map metas hundreds of times to have at least the general path memorized, so they won't be able to effectively predict where the tag is going either.

Neither did (or still do!) I. At no point what I said had anything to do with any path memorizing. You see a tag and/or a group and you follow them. That's it. I am unable to remember or imagine a scenario where the whole group is somehow obstructed by... from what I understand... skyscale users being the part of that very group? If you see skyscales, you see the group. If anything, they're the floating markers above the ground so it's harder to lose sight of the group?

Edited April 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[AgentMoore.9453]

Yes, we should be able to hide/phase out obstructions like Skyscales and tone down other visual noise through our settings. Turning the Siege Turtle transparent in close proximity was a good design choice. Take it a step further and allow players to completely erase/replace the models, mounts, pets, sounds, and other effects of anyone they have blocked (an optional ticker in settings, possibly disabled in competitive modes where it might cause issues).

Adding further ways of curating the visuals would massively improve performance and just overall enjoyability for me, and I'm not at all concerned that someone might wring their hands because I can't see their skins anymore. Too bad. As for 'free advertising' of skins, I do my shopping in the gem store and have never bought anything because I saw someone riding/wearing it, so that argument means nothing to me either.