Hero Points are outdated

[Cyninja.2954]

12 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So how would you describe the acquisition of 250 hero points? Idle farming? Idle obtaining? You actively have to play the game in order to get 250 hero points right? Or are you saying that 250 points can be handed to you by just simply logging into the game like the daily login rewards?

You made a suggestions: "actively perform a singular activity in sequence in order to unlock a feature".

I agreed. Since acquiring different hero points is not performing the same action aka singular activity over and over, given hero points differ, your own suggestion for defining grind does not fit.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You made a suggestions: "actively perform a singular activity in sequence in order to unlock a feature".

I agreed. Since acquiring different hero points is not performing the same action aka singular activity over and over, given hero points differ, your own suggestion for defining grind does not fit.

I don't see how, you have to walk up to the Hero point node and click on it right? The question is whether or not you have to kill an NPC right? But you have to do that exact thing what 20 times, but spread across a whole map.

Here I'll ask this question instead: How many times would I need to walk up to a Hero Point node before the game allowed me to fully unlock an elite spec?

[Freya.9075]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

And if someone doesn't know, like I don't know....a new player? Much logic....

I was a new player 3 years ago. I joined a hp train and it took around two hours. No problem at all. Which is why I said two hours instead of one. Two hours is nothing when it comes to “grinding” in mmos. But that’s beside the point here. Playing the game for hero points is not a grind. Coming from other mmos where grind is a thing, I was surprised how casual friendly and alt friendly this game is and how little “grind” it took to be able to do endgame stuff. After you get to that point, you choose what to play for. It being legendaries or achievements or whatever. Those can be seen as grindy, but they are a choice. Not something you have to do to be able to do endgame. 

[Cyninja.2954]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I don't see how, you have to walk up to the Hero point node and click on it right? The question is whether or not you have to kill an NPC right? But you have to do that exact thing what 20 times, but spread across a whole map.

Here I'll ask this question instead: How many times would I need to walk up to a Hero Point node before the game allowed me to fully unlock an elite spec?

Your grasping at straws man. Now your trying to shift and change your own definition to fit your argument. Never a good place to go.

[kharmin.7683]

16 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

And how many times would I have to actively use a Hero Point node before the game allowed me to have an elite spec fully unlocked?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Specialization#Elite_specializations

[Gravitron.7982]

32 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Specialization#Elite_specializations

So 25 times back to back? I rest my case your honor.

[Linken.6345]

58 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

And how many times would I have to actively use a Hero Point node before the game allowed me to have an elite spec fully unlocked?

Once is the correct answer then you have to find another node.

10 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So 25 times back to back? I rest my case your honor.

Well only if you actively avoided all the hero points on the maps leveling from 3-80 yes it would be 25 times.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Linken.6345

[Gravitron.7982]

42 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Your grasping at straws man. Now your trying to shift and change your own definition to fit your argument. Never a good place to go.

I don't think I am in this case. I think that you (and others) see any form of criticism against GW2 as a personal attack, and feel you must defend GW2's honor. I'm merely pointing out that the game does not give you the entire class right away, you have to earn the first half, then earn the 2nd half by "actively playing". Getting on your mount, and manually running to a hero point node, then fighting the NPC that spawns, is still actively playing, it's not passive.

You can disagree with me as much as I will disagree with you. Just try to remember that I'm not saying your game is good or bad lol, I am just merely pointing something out and agreeing with OP. I don't see how any game can get better if no one can be honest about it's short comings.

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

Once is the correct answer then you have to find another node.

So you find the node, get the point, and you are counting that as complete? Or do you have to repeat that task 24 more times?

[Randulf.7614]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So you find the node, get the point, and you are counting that as complete? Or do you have to repeat that task 24 more times?

Its complete and cannot be repeated. Then you do an entirely different hero point which is a different activity. That one hero point could event complete a skill or a trait. Boom, no grind, no problem 😄

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So you find the node, get the point, and you are counting that as complete? Or do you have to repeat that task 24 more times?

I count it as complete and then I continue to play the game uncovering the maps and getting other hero points yes.

What you call a grind I call just run around playing the game.

Edit

You do know back in core we did not get any hero points leveling up we had to go out and get them all to unlock core skills and buy books to level up our traitlines.

So yea leveling up now to 80 give all your core trait and skill lines for free.

And thats the base class without any playing around like we old timers had to do.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Linken.6345

[Linken.6345]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What relevance is it being a different node...the literal action is literally the same? You're still walking up to a Hero point node....whether you walk up to 25 different nodes or the same node 25 times is irrelevant, since one node does not fully unlock the elite spec on it's own.  You're trolling right?

By this definition your done with the game at lvl 2 when you come out of tutorial mate.

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Linken.6345 said:

By this definition your done with the game at lvl 2 when you come out of tutorial mate.

By your definition, you're done with the game at level 2, because the grind from level 2 to level 3 is a completely different activity.

[Cernoch.8524]

2 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What relevance is it being a different node...the literal action is literally the same? You're still walking up to a Hero point node....whether you walk up to 25 different nodes or the same node 25 times is irrelevant, since one node does not fully unlock the elite spec on it's own.  You're trolling right?

Here comes the question, did you do ANY of those nodes? Some hero points are different activities, its not always the same, "go there, click and go to another one."

 

10 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I don't think I am in this case. I think that you (and others) see any form of criticism against GW2 as a personal attack, and feel you must defend GW2's honor. I'm merely pointing out that the game does not give you the entire class right away, you have to earn the first half, then earn the 2nd half by "actively playing". Getting on your mount, and manually running to a hero point node, then fighting the NPC that spawns, is still actively playing, it's not passive.

This game has many broken things and is far from perfect but this system simply is not one of them.

Is there even any game that give you things by being passive? By not doing anything actively? Do you even know what game means?

[Randulf.7614]

8 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What relevance is it being a different node...the literal action is literally the same? You're still walking up to a Hero point node....whether you walk up to 25 different nodes or the same node 25 times is irrelevant, since one node does not fully unlock the elite spec on it's own.  You're trolling right?

Because its not the same action. You are playing the game and whilst doing so - whether it is a fight, eating poison bacon, communing - you also unlock some skills along the way. The issue is you define everything that isn't logging in as a grind. That's untrue. There's tons of issues we call out daily on this forum, buit hero points being a grind is not one of them. You may not like the activities, you may just want to be given everythign with no effort, but no grind has been put in place here. We are simply trying to make you understand you have been given the wrong definition of grind from somewhere. Once you overcome that, it might help you understand whether an actual issue with the HP system exists or not.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Cernoch.8524 said:

Here comes the question, did you do ANY of those nodes? Some hero points are different activities, its not always the same, "go there, click and go to another one."

 

This game has many broken things and is far from perfect but this system simply is not one of them.

Is there even any game that give you things by being passive? By not doing anything actively? Do you even know what game means?

Yeah, Eve Online has passive skill training that's based on time passed, not effort put in.

[Cernoch.8524]

3 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Yeah, Eve Online has passive skill training that's based on time passed, not effort put in.

Right, so I can create character, be logged on for days without touching the game and then come back with maxed out character?

Edited April 24, 2023 by Cernoch.8524

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Cernoch.8524 said:

Right, so I can create character, be loggen on for days without touching the game and then come back with maxed out character?

You have to log in, and queue up all the skills you want to train in a queue, which has a max level of skills that can be trained at once. Then you log off. Probably takes 2 minutes total time to achieve that. Then sign back on whenever the last skill is scheduled to finish training (the game shows you how many hours or days it will take), and BAM you're trained up.

I would say that this system is the least grindy of grinds as you don't actually grind, you wait. But Hero Point nodes is still more grindy than this.

[Cernoch.8524]

3 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

You have to log in, and queue up all the skills you want to train in a queue, which has a max level of skills that can be trained at once. Then you log off. Probably takes 2 minutes total time to achieve that. Then sign back on whenever the last skill is scheduled to finish training (the game shows you how many hours or days it will take), and BAM you're trained up.

I would say that this system is the least grindy of grinds as you don't actually grind, you wait. But Hero Point nodes is still more grindy than this.

But that way you are not even playing the game. If that is fine for you then its clear now why you consider this grind but games are here to be played not wait. In real life you dont get skill in football by watching tv, you have to play it too.

[Freya.9075]

Just now, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What relevance is it being a different node...the literal action is literally the same? You're still walking up to a Hero point node....whether you walk up to 25 different nodes or the same node 25 times is irrelevant, since one node does not fully unlock the elite spec on it's own.  You're trolling right?

Each hero point node has their own mechanics. So it clearly is not irrelevant as it’s not the same node and will not feel repetitive. Which is the definition of grinding. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

25 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

What relevance is it being a different node...the literal action is literally the same? You're still walking up to a Hero point node....whether you walk up to 25 different nodes or the same node 25 times is irrelevant, since one node does not fully unlock the elite spec on it's own.  You're trolling right?

A hero point.  And...

Another hero point.  Somehow they look different to me.  Most would define grind as repeating the same activity for an extended period.  You appear to define it as having to do anything you don't want to do.  Which is fine.  You're welcome to your opinion.  I don't see much point in arguing semantics further.

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So you're saying that GW2 is setup in a way that wants people to be like you, and have 60 characters, and just ..."play the game normally" and not worry about elite specializations because, well....you'll get there "eventually"...?

No. I'm saying you only need to get one elite spec, and it takes about 2 hours if you join a train.  I don't know anyone that buys a WoW expansion and 2 hours later they're geared for end game content.

I'm saying that I don't even need elite spec to get into end game content at all in fact, unlike WoW where you'd have to level and then gear.

I'm saying that just by playing the game, normally, in either WvW or PvE, you'd have enough hero points on a character to unlock the elite spec the moment it game out. Unless all you do is raids, or all you do is fractals, if you play the zones, you'll have the hero points. If you play WvW, you'll have the currency to buy the hero points.

Of you spent 2 hours with a train (and I can do this solo on any class, so you know, in about the same amount of time) and unlock an elite spec.

You're complaining about unlocking a single elite spec in 2 hours.  That's six hours for all of them.

 

The OP complains compared this to WoW and says that you don't have to do this in WOW. No you have to level and gear. This is less grindy faster and better. 

 

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying you have to play like me, because I don't generally buy them with WvW currency and I do my own hero point runs without a group, and somehow, I get elite specs unlocked in 2 hours.

If this is the big grind afer and expansion comes out, because you know they haven't been coming out every year, people don't know what grind is. That's what I'm saying.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

54 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

agreeing with OP

You might consider perusing the OP's post history before so readily agreeing.

(She must be in 7th heaven watching this argument!)

[Val.7826]

2 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

You have to log in, and queue up all the skills you want to train in a queue, which has a max level of skills that can be trained at once. Then you log off. Probably takes 2 minutes total time to achieve that. Then sign back on whenever the last skill is scheduled to finish training (the game shows you how many hours or days it will take), and BAM you're trained up.

I would say that this system is the least grindy of grinds as you don't actually grind, you wait. But Hero Point nodes is still more grindy than this.

 

I'm not good at understanding when a person is just trolling, but reading some of your replies here is making me think you are one.

If not, it seems you just call "grind" everything that is repeated more then once to obtain a thing. It feels like, for you, having lunch is grinding because you do that every day. It feels like you think a game should be just creating the one character (no more then one), logout for some days, and then login again, seeing that fully equipped and with max stats, and then just don't play because playing means using your character to kill something more then one time, aka, grinding.

Outside the simplistic definition of grinding that you can find on google, grinding is not a synonym of playing in an MMO; if you replace HP with something else, maybe something more offline style like "weapon upgrades", in an open world game where you have to go around and obtain these upgrades because the game drives you in that way, because some bosses or enemies needs those upgrades to be defeated, you'll have a normal rpg with a progression, where you just go around having fun and obtaining that progression, and you use your progression to go further in the game, just like almost every fantasy game released until now. HP are not different, just a character upgrade sometimes required to unlock a build that you have the pleasure to use to proceed in the game, and the prove that they are not grinding is that many of them are not necessary, you can skip lots of HPs without any loss, you can just take the ones you find on your way in the exploration and you'll be fine, and at the end of all the story you'll probably have all the HP you need to fullfill every E-Spec, or at least the one you want to use.

I repeat, "grind" is not "play", grind is a forced/willed repetition of an act in order to obtain something, without almost any variation in the middle, like "grinding 100 times a boss in order to obtain that 1% drop" or "repeating one convenient quest that gives you a lot of exp in order to reach max level faster" or "repeating every single meta every day in order to accumulate a lot of gold and valuables", these can be considered "grinding". Exploring maps and reaching HPs in different places, often with different mechanics (sometimes a battle, sometimes a riddle, sometimes a jumping puzzle, etc...) is not "grinding", is "playing and progress".

 

Disclaimer: this reply is not necessarily related to this post I've quoted, but kinda to all of yours related to the "grinding" topic.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Val.7826

[Gravitron.7982]

1 hour ago, Val.7826 said:

 

I'm not good at understanding when a person is just trolling, but reading some of your replies here is making me think you are one.

If not, it seems you just call "grind" everything that is repeated more then once to obtain a thing. It feels like, for you, having lunch is grinding because you do that every day. It feels like you think a game should be just creating the one character (no more then one), logout for some days, and then login again, seeing that fully equipped and with max stats, and then just don't play because playing means using your character to kill something more then one time, aka, grinding.

Outside the simplistic definition of grinding that you can find on google, grinding is not a synonym of playing in an MMO; if you replace HP with something else, maybe something more offline style like "weapon upgrades", in an open world game where you have to go around and obtain these upgrades because the game drives you in that way, because some bosses or enemies needs those upgrades to be defeated, you'll have a normal rpg with a progression, where you just go around having fun and obtaining that progression, and you use your progression to go further in the game, just like almost every fantasy game released until now. HP are not different, just a character upgrade sometimes required to unlock a build that you have the pleasure to use to proceed in the game, and the prove that they are not grinding is that many of them are not necessary, you can skip lots of HPs without any loss, you can just take the ones you find on your way in the exploration and you'll be fine, and at the end of all the story you'll probably have all the HP you need to fullfill every E-Spec, or at least the one you want to use.

I repeat, "grind" is not "play", grind is a forced/willed repetition of an act in order to obtain something, without almost any variation in the middle, like "grinding 100 times a boss in order to obtain that 1% drop" or "repeating one convenient quest that gives you a lot of exp in order to reach max level faster" or "repeating every single meta every day in order to accumulate a lot of gold and valuables", these can be considered "grinding". Exploring maps and reaching HPs in different places, often with different mechanics (sometimes a battle, sometimes a riddle, sometimes a jumping puzzle, etc...) is not "grinding", is "playing and progress".

 

Disclaimer: this reply is not necessarily related to this post I've quoted, but kinda to all of yours related to the "grinding" topic.

Finding and using a hero point, then another one, then another, 25 different times is pretty grindy. It's not the old SWG unlocking Jedi grind, but it's definitely not like the daily login reward pat on the back you get for logging in. You have to put effort to get 250 hero points.