Every other kit/utility skill sucks compared to grenade kit. Please update

[LaFurion.3167]

I dont mean nerd grenade kit into the ground, rather, make bomb kit better for example. For an aoe kit that leaves combo fields, its so much inferior to grenade kit. Elixir kit, toolkit (lmao toolkit 2, box of nails, and the 6 confusion lucky if you hit crowbar) are all out dated. Dont even get me started on turrets, where rifle turret is only taken to proc static discharge...

 

Please Anet, work on engi. I dont want to have to take grenade kit on every single engi build i play in every single game mode because its so good, I would at least like to have to think and be able to have a choice

Edited May 12, 2023 by LaFurion.3167

[Gendalfs.7521]

5 hours ago, LaFurion.3167 said:

I dont mean nerd grenade kit into the ground

I have a bad feeling, thats whats gonna happen

[UntimelyM.7860]

I think if they reverted the change made to the Flamethrower's Flame Blast skill, when they reduced the strike damage, it would go a long way to providing an alternative to grenades for a power build (and I don't mean camping FT and pressing 1111).

For reference:

February 22, 2017

Reduced the base damage of this skill by 66%.

 

FT has, in the last few years, earned a reputation for being a low skill kit, however this wasn't always the case. It has some great utility and some really clutch skills (projectile reflect and instant aoe blind). It just needs a bit of instant strike damage back again to make it a viable choice for players that actually kit swap.

 

I recall Flame Blast hitting for 5-6k+ before the change.. I could see myself using FT with Toolkit (Prybar) and feeling like I had enough damage to not need grenades. 

 

- Prozap

 

 

[Mardomus.6984]

I'm not sure what Devs are trying to do with Engineer, to be honest. Core Engineer Spec and Skills need some major rework. I like Explosives/Firearms, and it could use some fixing, especially Juggernaut, Modified Ammunition, and Incendiary Powder, but the rest of the Core Specs are complete trash, lack synergy and don't have fun build composition compared to other Professions I've tried. Tool Kit and Elixir Gun need to get the same type of rework Med Kit got or just remove them. The other kits need better damage tuning; along with their given Specs; Juggernaut/Grenadier. Turrets have been god awful for a long time. Them trying to make turrets last longer through Experimental Turrets/Tool Kit didn't work, since they still get one shot like rabbits. Turrets need a MAJOR rework along with other skills/utilities. 

 

Holosmith should be similar to Firebrand, considering its Lore, "By harnessing the power of the sun, holosmiths can create semi-solid constructs of light". Firebrand has more burning skills then Holosmith and can still play well hybrid 🫠

 

Scrapper has been gutted so many times, I have no idea what they're trying to do with it. It seems they are destroying other kits/skills when used with scrapper rather then fixing the Spec itself, which needs some serious rework.

 

Mech is actually fun. I like what they did to it; imagine if we had some fun core Specs. The only three complaints I have is

1. No water Mech.

2. I would like to merge with our mech similar to Rangers' Soulbeast Beastemode granting effects. 

3. I wish to have the ability to ride inside the mech like how we do in WvWvW Siege Golem, Summon Power Suit skill, and Tami. They missed the mark on this one.

4. I wish we could customize our Mech, considering the amount of Golems and Mechs we have.

 

I don't know... 🫠

Edited May 13, 2023 by Mardomus.6984

[wasss.1208]

On 5/12/2023 at 5:36 AM, LaFurion.3167 said:

I dont mean nerd grenade kit into the ground, rather, make bomb kit better for example.

Honestly, Grenade kit needs a rework at this point, not nerfing. It has great burst, with its toolbelt skill. It has good base damage, because its AA has a high power coeff, and counts as 3 explosives, for the condi builds. Its other skills also carry a lot of damage, both power, and condi outside of the third skill. Add the fact, that it can be thrown backwards, and you'll get a kit, that is pretty strong not just in PvE, but PvP, and roaming. And it's not just bad to play against, it's bad to play with as well. The most frequent question I hear from new Engineers, if they can drop 'nade kit, because it's pure groundtargeted nature is hard to pick up.

 

 

On 5/12/2023 at 5:36 AM, LaFurion.3167 said:

make bomb kit better for example.

 

Bomb kit in PvE needs some love for its power coeffs. It works well enough on condi builds, but ever since a developer decided, that Engineers shouldn't use kits, and overbuffed Rifle, you no longer need to use Bomb kit, to get a high base damage, so its lost its niché there. For WvW zerging, as far as I know, it's good at it is. For roaming and PvP its unsalvagable.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 5:36 AM, LaFurion.3167 said:

Elixir kit

 

Elixir Gun is a pretty stong utility kit. It's used in PvE heal builds, and could be slapped on any build, in competitive modes, for condi cleanse+stunbreak alone. Its second skill needs some attention tho'.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 5:36 AM, LaFurion.3167 said:

toolkit

Toolkit is an another utility kit, that in my oppinion, is the most well rounded kit that we can pick. It has defense, it has CC, it has burst, it has base damage, it has power, it has condi... the moment this kit gets popular, people will start to cry about how broken it is.

Flamethrower is used in PvE condi builds, WvW zerging builds (if my knowledge isn't outdated), and I've seen one if the few Core Engineer mains successfully running it on a condi build, in PvP. My only problem with it, is the grandmaster trait aimed at it leads to a pretty unsatisfying build to play with/against.

tl;dr: Give kits some love, look at their traits, rework 'nades.

[draxynnic.3719]

18 minutes ago, wasss.1208 said:

Honestly, Grenade kit needs a rework at this point, not nerfing. It has great burst, with its toolbelt skill. It has good base damage, because its AA has a high power coeff, and counts as 3 explosives, for the condi builds. Its other skills also carry a lot of damage, both power, and condi outside of the third skill. Add the fact, that it can be thrown backwards, and you'll get a kit, that is pretty strong not just in PvE, but PvP, and roaming. And it's not just bad to play against, it's bad to play with as well. The most frequent question I hear from new Engineers, if they can drop 'nade kit, because it's pure groundtargeted nature is hard to pick up.

Personally, I wish they'd rework grenade kit back into throwing a single grenade at a time. Unpopular opinion, I know, but the powercreep from one grenade base and two with trait, to two base and three with trait, to three has made it a bit silly. Grenades really shouldn't be being chucked out by the handful. Rebalance it accordingly, and it would probably be easier to balance the explosives traits in general if they didn't have to account for one kit being able to generate three at a time.

[MaLong.2079]

It could have to do with the individual's play style. I have tried to play grenades a few times and they are useless for me. Even if I trait grenades I find them slow and I can't seem to hit anything. I think it would be even worse if they change it to a single projectile unless the rate of fire is greatly increased. Flamethrower is a lot more effective and fun for me. I do equip grenades though, but only for Barrage which would be a waste of a good utility slot if there was a better option for the quick burst that Barrage provides.

[SleepyBat.9034]

For me when I play Holosmith in WvW I find that Elite Mortar Kit replaces Grenade Kit and I get to take another utility skill (Elixir C is the best in the current meta, fight me). I wouldn't trade my Elixir Gun/EMK build for anything.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

I have a few suggestions to buff condi engis viability in PvP. A couple of the changes would help power builds as well. 

Toolkit

  Thwack - reduce cast time to 3/4s, it will now apply confusion. 

  Box of Nails - this skill is now ground targeted, range 900, nails last for 5 or 6 seconds

  Throw Wrench - reduce CD to 15 seconds, this ability now applies confusion.

Elixer Gun

  Glob Shot - this ability now also applies confusion. 

  Acid Bomb - this ability now applies torment on initial explosion. 

Flamethrower

  Flame Jet - now applies burning at the start of cast.

Traits

  Streamlined Kits - this ability now creates an attack, grants an aura, and applies swiftness when equipping a kit.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by WhoWantsAHug.3186

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I agree that bomb kit should receive a little bit of love. For PvE it can still do something decent but for WvW, this kit is pretty much dead. I think bombs overall should deals a bit more damage since you're basically at melee range and having to "predict" the path of your opponent to actually hit your target.

 

FT is a good kit to be fair so I dont know. I wouldnt mind giving the kit more burning stack or burning related thing so that it actually is a choice for condi DPS but at the same time Anet being Anet they will pull out a rifle rework kit edition and we will end up with a kit that is worse than its pre rework version.

 

Elixir kit is overall good as well, not much to complain about.

 

Toolkit on the other hand feels way too outdated both in PvE and WvW. Bad auto attack with poor range, nailbox is just underwhelming, prybar is imo the skill that carry the kit, along with the pull and the shield is ok. The toolbelt skill is actually good but it is hard to justify taking this kit over anything else. For PvE, I dont think it will replace any other kit unless the kit receive a drastic rework with a new purpose and for WvW the kit can work but it is too much effort for low result.

[lorddarkflare.9186]

In terms of how they work and what they do I 100% agree that all the non-grenade kits need to change. But any kit rebalance is coming with a grenade kit nerf. Pretty much the only Engineer build not made better by Grenade Kit are the support builds, and that is a problem if the other kits are powercrept or even if they just get a QoL update.

[Infinity.2876]

Some assorted ideas to change utilities/kits

 

Spoiler

Mortar #2: increase damage coefficient and apply vuln instead of poison,

 

Tool #3: instead of confusion increase damage against cripple foes.

 

elixer gun (my changes try to add more boon support to this weapon rather than being a random hybrid): 

 

aa: replaced by power infusion (ally target) grants might to allies and grants 25% crit chance on next attack

 

Fumigate: replaced by protective coating grants protection and resolution to allies and removes 2 conditions

 

Bandage (med kit tool belt): increase healing coeff (by 1000?)

 

Bomb kit:

Wierd idea coming up:

what if skills did siege damage for example breaking down gates and tents for parts of events?

it would give it a niche.

 

[The Boz.2038]

I would redo kits so bad it's not even funny. I would take a hammer to it so bad...
First off, the most radical step. Engineer fully embraces the "kits are my profession mechanic, actually" identity. They become the F5, replacing elite toolbelt for all e-specs (yes, even Mechanist). For Holo, this is a tiny nerf because Holo gets Forge as baked-in, and can't choose another. To facilitate the change, grenade, mortar and bomb get kinda merged into Explosives kit. Scrapper, Holo and Mechanist get their missing 5th utility back, reusing most of what was lost with the merger and the elite toolbelts.
Now you are left with "a 0-CD weapon swap", and this type of swap now fully deserves to have an entire set of traits dedicated to it; one trait per kit.