When did Spawn Camping become so big in PvP

[excelsior.2168]

Going to go ahead and preface this that I am  PvE and WvW player, I rarely do PvP. But currently been doing PvP to get potions for my guild hall and been noticing that spawn camping is more prevalent than I would have thought. When did this happen? 

As a way to counter this, it should be like in WvW where you are invulnerable for a bit outside of your spawn camp. I realize that might be hard to code but being spawn camped and therefore really unable to play the game is just complete bull. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

But as I mentioned, spawn camping might have been a thing for awhile and I'm just now coming into it. If it has been for awhile, it needs to get fixed but unranked matches and spawn camping are not a welcoming environment to new players to the game or PvP. 

[thc enjoyer.4976]

Honestly, and I mean this from a good place, if you're getting spawn camped then that particular game was meant to be a loss. It is a skill issue at that rate and I don't mean this in a negative way or to single only one person out, the other team just had you bested, unless they're losing nodes while thirsting. 

[FiveBunnies.5730]

Your team is five teammates. Their team is five teammates too. If you can't get together and go through them, you  have lost. It is fair. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by FiveBunnies.5730

[Bazsi.2734]

In WvW fights are rarely ever fair, even when your team can take some objectives on the map you are likely to be outnumbered. So it's understandeable to have some catchup mechanics in there.
In sPvP however you are strictly 5v5. There is matchmaking meant to ensure those 5-man teams are roughly equal in skill. If you still can't leave the base like that... you are not meant to. You'll get weaker opponents next time. Also over 10 years in ranked, I had never had this problem of "not being able to leave spawn" unless 2+ teammates afked... spawncamping means that particular game is over. At that point you are better off not decapping/stealing objectives anyway, just lose as fast as you can and get into the next match so you actually get to play the game.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I mean... They already won if they spawn camp you. 

Why waste everybody's time then? Feed them kills to finish the match faster. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

If they are spawn camping you that means the 5 players on their team are stronger than your 5 players and you cant push them hard enough to reset, even with your spawn right next door. 

That's the game telling you you lost. 

WvW has invulnerable because groups can be heavily outnumbered in terms of players and need a foothold to play the game. Not so in pvp.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Greyrat.2378]

They can't spawn camp you tho, can they?
Usually you have 2 ways to exit the spawn to give you some space to maneuver, and if your team can't deal with situation like this that just means it's a skill difference.
In theory they should be in disadvantage considering that if they get outnumbered, it takes considerable more time to get to your spawn from theirs if one of them dies (and I see this situation quite often when people get overconfident, rush to the enemy spawn, enemy team eventually wipes them and then takes control over the map).

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Greyrat.2378

[Saiyan.1704]

I can $eII you pvp potions dm me :)!

[Goldilock.2584]

Because no1 will give up node to play 5v5 and peel someone out to get a extra player on the map.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

In the old days, when a game was lost like this, it was common etiquette for the enemy team to let you come down and PvP them individually so you could both get something out of it. About three years ago, however, and especially in the last two years this changed and players became obsessed with farming the spawn,and often trying to humiliate the enemy team as much as possible by throwing insults and so on.

 

I don't know what happened, but most of the old rules of PvP are long gone and replaced by toxicity. I feel like the player base has lost all respect for other players. You're no longer a worthy opponent they're dueling, you're just a thing that makes the fun numbers go up.

 

You can find more respect on the WvW borderlands PvP spots than in all the PvP game mode itself.

Edited May 23, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[JTGuevara.9018]

19 hours ago, excelsior.2168 said:

Going to go ahead and preface this that I am  PvE and WvW player, I rarely do PvP. But currently been doing PvP to get potions for my guild hall and been noticing that spawn camping is more prevalent than I would have thought. When did this happen? 

As a way to counter this, it should be like in WvW where you are invulnerable for a bit outside of your spawn camp. I realize that might be hard to code but being spawn camped and therefore really unable to play the game is just complete bull. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

But as I mentioned, spawn camping might have been a thing for awhile and I'm just now coming into it. If it has been for awhile, it needs to get fixed but unranked matches and spawn camping are not a welcoming environment to new players to the game or PvP. 

I don't really have that big of a problem with spawn-camping.

However, I have a theory of why it's so prevalent: powercreep. Post-EoD powercreep essentially ruined the basic rules of the game. That is, capturing and defending points. Post-EoD specs thanks to their high-damage, high-sustain and high-mobility allow players to move even faster from point-to-point and easily intercept rotations and insta-gib any opposition they come across, before they even get to the point for decapping or contesting.  Basically, people just go for kills. Because it's more rewarding.

Of course, I find it disgusting. I find this entire game mode and its situation disgusting. (Not that I play it anymore!) Zerging players and hunting them like dogs is the more effective strategy these days. If this were a deathmatch mode, it would be fine but... it's not!

Now I'm just ACTIVELY telling people not to play this garbage. And nobody is going to stop me...

[Buran.3796]

Since Courtyard.

[ToffeeLatte.8243]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:28 AM, excelsior.2168 said:

But as I mentioned, spawn camping might have been a thing for awhile and I'm just now coming into it. If it has been for awhile, it needs to get fixed but unranked matches and spawn camping are not a welcoming environment to new players to the game or PvP. 

If you're pushed that deep spawn camping is the closest thing to an honourable forfeit you can be offered. Because it'll end the game faster, else you'll just lamb to slaughter into any node over and over.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

It's due to mobility creep.

There are too many forward gap closing instant targeted teleports and other such skills, but not enough ground targeted or no-target mobility skills. After EoD release the chase power in the game is roughly double the disengage power. <- This leads to a situation where it is very easy to chase and kill players while spawn camping, but not easy to the chased players to run through that to get back to nodes.

This is exactly why there is so much spawn camping in 2023 conquest.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's due to mobility creep.

There are too many forward gap closing instant targeted teleports and other such skills, but not enough ground targeted or no-target mobility skills. After EoD release the chase power in the game is roughly double the disengage power. <- This leads to a situation where it is very easy to chase and kill players while spawn camping, but not easy to the chased players to run through that to get back to nodes.

This is exactly why there is so much spawn camping in 2023 conquest.

Mobility has very little to do with it though. It's not about running to points in this scenario, it's about beating people up waiting right outside your spawn platform, while you have your entire team respawning two inches away.

If you can't push 5v5 enough to scatter an opposing team when they have to run the whole map to put pressure on you at spawn, there's a skill disparity in the team that prevents them from winning an engagement where they have advantage. 

Classes having more mobility makes it a little easier for players to traverse the map, but those changes aren't so significant that you can die at enemy spawn and be back harassing them before your team gets pressured by the 4v5. 

At some point, it's just a skill issue. Whether you want to hand that blame to mmr or whatever is fine, but getting rolled so hard you cant push out of spawn means the other team is just stronger. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

43 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Mobility has very little to do with it though. It's not about running to points in this scenario, it's about beating people up waiting right outside your spawn platform

Yeah, and when it chases you faster than you can run from it, you never get back to nodes. Even if it's a equal skill team vs. equal skill team, you're still talking one team being able to lock the other up so they can't get back to nodes before finishing some elongated team fight first. This all attributes to lopsided outcomes. And spawn camping doesn't necessarily mean "one team is actually killing the other team" it just means they are keeping them in their spawn, which in conquest, is a very powerful tactic even between equal skilled teams. Just keep them from the nodes, you don't need to kill anything.

Revenants, Willbender, Rangers with smoke assault, All Thieves, ect ect. These classes all have TARGETED teleports that allow them to stay on top of you to ensure kills. The only way around it, is stealthing.

For example, let's look at Daredevil, which is the fastest class in the game chase wise and even disengage. But even in the case of Daredevil, due to the nature of targeted Steal or Sword #2 targeted ports, a Daredevil who is chasing another Daredevil, will always be able to catch the Daredevil who is trying to run away. Thus it is very difficult for even a Daredevil to get through a spawn camp if there is another Daredevil to chase him.

The entire intra-class dynamic presents this issue after EoD release and it serves to do nothing other than empower the "Cat" in the "Cat & Mouse" game, which results in lopsided matches 500 to 100 where players are too easily spawn camped and kept from getting back to node play. Back in HoT or Core, that 500 to 100 match would look more like 500 to 300 because players would at least be able to run back to nodes and cause distribution of opponents to chase different people, alleviating empowered spawn camping. In 2023, I can be in a good AT group and move in between the people coming off a spawn quickly enough to where we can keep 5 players in the spawn to where they can never get beyond 600-900 range before death by ports.

It's just all empowered chase potential man. As of EoD, rotations take the back seat due to this. The game is now just about who can win combats. Conquest is more like Death Match than Conquest nowadays. All due to mobility creep.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524