when does the greed stop?

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

If the store you bought it from gave it to me, I'd say it's free. 

But that wasn't your initial argument, it was that "someone else paid for gems" and that seems to be irrelevant to anything said here.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Bladestrom.6425]

so @Gravitron.7982 what do you actually want  to happen?

1) Pay a sub like most other mmorpg at £120 + a year and pay for expansions and have same issues

2) Play GW2  Free to play knowing that the game is perfectly playable and you are prepared to wait until new professions are balanced, or support the game and pay the equivalent of <50 pence a week to buy an expansion, or indeed farm gold and get it for free over a longer period.

 

 

 

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But that wasn't your initial arugment, it was that "someone else paid for gems" and that seems to be irrelevant to anything said here.

Anet supplies the gems, but doesn't hand them out until a player buys them. If you made something yourself, and gave it to me, then yes it would be free.

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

so @Gravitron.7982 what do you actually want  to happen?

1) Pay a sub like most other mmorpg at £120 + a year and pay for expansions and have same issues

2) Play GW2  Free to play knowing that the game is perfectly playable and you are prepared to wait until new professions are balanced, or support the game and pay the equivalent of <50 pence a week to buy an expansion, or indeed farm gold and get it for free over a longer period.

 

 

 

I'd rather pay a monthly sub with everything fully unlocked while your sub is active. 

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Anet supplies the gems, but doesn't hand them out until a player buys them. If you made something yourself, and gave it to me, then yes it would be free.

And, again, it doesn't matter if someone else pays for them, the point is that you are not. Hence my initial question. If now you're trying to complaing about needing to exchange gold for it then this is not what you were saying in your previous posts and you're just moving the goalposts now.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Bladestrom.6425]

"I'd rather pay a monthly sub with everything fully unlocked while your sub is active. "

 

ooook then, so instead of paying a monthly sub, pay the EXACT same amount and buy expansions - problem solved right. The only difference is that the latter gives choice to those that want to play entirely for free............

Edited May 31, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Gravitron.7982]

22 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

"I'd rather pay a monthly sub with everything fully unlocked while your sub is active. "

 

ooook then, so instead of paying a monthly sub, pay the EXACT same amount and buy expansions - problem solved right. The only difference is that the latter gives choice to those that want to play entirely for free............

But spending $15 bucks a month on gems doesn't unlock the same features that a sub would unlock if GW2 was on a sub model, which is why your suggestion doesn't work. 

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

But spending $15 bucks a month on gems doesn't unlock the same features that a sub would unlock if GW2 was on a sub model, which is why your suggestion doesn't work. 

UM ... except that choice doesn't exist (nor are you the one to decide if it would), so even though you might believe that's would be the case, you don't know if it would happen. The point is that believing that something could work the way you want is not a reason to crap on the way it currently works. That's a fallacy right there. The proof the poster's suggestion would or wouldn't work has NOTHING to do with what you believe. You have no idea what features a $15 sub would unlock ... hell, it might not unlock ANYTHING except access to the game. There are successful MMO's that have a sub AND a Store. 

Let's be real for a minute. It's not going to work the way you want, like ever. If the current model is sustainable, it's not changing. If the current model is not sustainable, it's only going to change because Anet HAS to change it based on likely what is a declining business. 

It's not clear to me what your expectations are, or even what your fundamental issues with the GS model is.  It is clear that what you expect is unrealistic and your issue seems to be rooted in a misunderstanding of how GW2 is a part of a business Anet runs.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[costepj.5120]

1 hour ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

But spending $15 bucks a month on gems doesn't unlock the same features that a sub would unlock if GW2 was on a sub model, which is why your suggestion doesn't work. 

Maybe, maybe not. But whatever it does unlock is permanent. The first day you stop your sub, you lose everything again.

[Gravitron.7982]

34 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

UM ... except that choice doesn't exist (nor are you the one to decide if it would), so even though you might believe that's would be the case, you don't know if it would happen. The point is that believing that something could work the way you want is not a reason to crap on the way it currently works. That's a fallacy right there. 

Let's be real for a minute. It's not going to work the way you want, like ever. If the current model is sustainable, it's not changing. If the current model is not sustainable, it's only going to change because Anet HAS to change it based on likely what is a declining business. 

It's not clear to me what your expectations are, or even what your fundamental issues with the GS model is.  It is clear that what you expect is unrealistic and your issue seems to be rooted in a misunderstanding of how GW2 is a part of a business Anet runs.

 

The reason I believe a $15 a month sub model could work, is because well..it has worked....for many MMORPG's that came before GW2. I don't understand where you're trying to steer this conversation now? You gave me an ultimatum: choose a monthly sub with everything unlocked, or the current model GW2 uses. I'd pick the monthly sub model where everything is unlocked when you subscribe. 

Buying $15 dollars worth of gems in it's current model does not unlock everything, which is why your argument falls apart. It doesn't actually achieve what I, or others, may want, therefore it is not a viable solution to the problem presented.

[Gravitron.7982]

33 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Maybe, maybe not. But whatever it does unlock is permanent. The first day you stop your sub, you lose everything again.

Sure, but if I'm not going to play the game for a month or two, and cancel my sub, then everything getting locked for me during that time becomes irrelevant. Why would it need to be unlocked for me during a time I'm not even going to access the game? 

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

The reason I believe a $15 a month sub model could work, is because well..it has worked....for many MMORPG's that came before GW2. 

You can believe what you like but business models and the 'proof' they work are not based on faith. There have been lots of Sub-based MMOs that didn't work as well. What works for one MMO is not proof it works for another. I mean again, you have ignored the alternatives to push your views here. Cherry-picking 'what works' is simply not evidence that a sub-based model in GW2 would work for it. 

6 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Buying $15 dollars worth of gems in it's current model does not unlock everything, which is why your argument falls apart. It doesn't actually achieve what I, or others, may want, therefore it is not a viable solution to the problem presented.

That's the issue here ... There isn't a problem presented in the first place. There is no problem with people buying stuff in a GS, regardless if it's pay to win or not. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Gravitron.7982]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You can believe what you like but business models and the 'proof' they work are not based on faith. What works for one MMO is not proof it works for another. 

That's the issue here ... There isn't a problem presented in the first place. There is no problem with people buying stuff in a GS, regardless if it's pay to win or not. 

I disagree, I think it's a problem. And what makes GW2 pay to win anyways? I thought F2P players have acess to the same power levels as players who paid?

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I disagree, I think it's a problem. 

Well, here is where the reality hits ... whether GW2 as a business is successful or not is not based on what you believe is a problem with it's business model. The fact that it's been around for over 10 years with this business model and is still pumping out new content speaks much more to it's success and how it's NOT a problem for it's customer based than what any individual thinks.

The fact is that as long as enough of the market patronizes Anet with purchases to make the business sustainable, then the people that don't like how GW2 works as a business (and likely don't buy gems) simply aren't necessary to make GW2 part of that sustainable business. 

You simply don't understand the business-customer interaction. It's not going to cater to you, especially if it's successful doing what it does. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Gravitron.7982]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, here is where the reality hits ... whether GW2 as a business is successful or not is not based on what you believe is a problem with it's business model. The fact that it's been around for over 10 years with this business model and is still pumping out new content speaks much more to it's success and how it's NOT a problem for it's customer based than what any individual thinks. 

You simply don't understand the business-customer interaction. It's simply not going to cater to you, especially if it's successful doing what it does. 

Oh I'm fully aware of how it works, and that I am personally, not the target audience for this niche MMO. I'm also fully aware that the team that runs and develops GW2 is tiny compared to the top 5 MMO's currently on the market, and essentially what we currently see in GW2 right now, is pretty much what we're going to get until GW2 servers are shut down. We were discussing a concept in the abstract, and you asked which option I'd rather have if I had the choice. So I answered. 

[Zok.4956]

12 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

The reason I believe a $15 a month sub model could work, is because well..it has worked....for many MMORPG's that came before GW2. I don't understand where you're trying to steer this conversation now? You gave me an ultimatum: choose a monthly sub with everything unlocked, or the current model GW2 uses. I'd pick the monthly sub model where everything is unlocked when you subscribe. 

Since there is no sub in GW2, you don't have the choice of a sub in GW2.

 

14 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Buying $15 dollars worth of gems in it's current model does not unlock everything, which is why your argument falls apart. It doesn't actually achieve what I, or others, may want, therefore it is not a viable solution to the problem presented.

This is the closest choice you have in GW2 to a sub model. It works for some people. Hence it is sometimes suggested in case people don't want to go without sub.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Oh I'm fully aware of how it works, and that I am personally, not the target audience for this niche MMO. I'm also fully aware that the team that runs and develops GW2 is tiny compared to the top 5 MMO's currently on the market, and essentially what we currently see in GW2 right now, is pretty much what we're going to get until GW2 servers are shut down. We were discussing a concept in the abstract, and you asked which option I'd rather have if I had the choice. So I answered. 

Well, even in discussing the concept in abstract, there is no way you can assume

2 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

But spending $15 bucks a month on gems doesn't unlock the same features that a sub would unlock if GW2 was on a sub model, which is why your suggestion doesn't work. 

I can totally see how the suggestion being made there could work or not. But what SHOULDN'T be happening is people assuming it couldn't work just to make some contrived argument to prove they are correct. 

[Gibson.4036]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:16 AM, ChouChou.1408 said:

Second, you should be glad that at least the game is not selling legendary gears for cash like the Chinese server. 

You can buy legendary weapons for cash on the NA and EU servers, too.

For example, Bolt is currently on the TP for 2,099 gold. Spend about $108 for gems, and it's yours.

On 5/26/2023 at 2:16 AM, ChouChou.1408 said:

Which totally turns the game into P2W.

Though, no, it doesn't. I can also craft Zojja's Blade, exact same power level, for about 31 gold, a very easy to earn sum in game.

[costepj.5120]

35 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I'd pick the monthly sub model where everything is unlocked when you subscribe. 

But most players here wouldn't. They would just leave the game and then the servers would be switched off.

I came to GW1 from WoW back in 2010, specifically to get away from a sub. If I'd stayed, I would be over $2000 down by now. I prefer the current model where I have unlocked everything for free.

[Strixxe.2019]

I never understood this. You have quite a hefty f2p tier, then you can buy expansions that are reasonably cheap compared to other mmos plus no subscriptions or other bs like season pass etc. How tf do you think anet gonna make money? For what its worth 'greed', as you so expressed there, is light sauce compared to other mmos.  

Edited May 31, 2023 by KrivukasLT.3507

[Lucy.3728]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:45 PM, vares.8457 said:

That’s nonsense. Open World is pretty rewarding.

How is open world pretty rewarding for a skin/loot player?

I mainly play wvw and get many open world skins faster (and automatically) with the reward tracks (as well as all dungeon skins) without playing open world (or dungeons).

I do play open world too sometimes but not for the loot. Not worth it. (Actually I don't play anything for the loot, so I'm thankful for the reward tracks that do their unlocking magic in the background while I play what and like I want).

[Swagger.1459]

12 hours ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Yes true, i have to start expecting less. Maybe if i start a new character and experience where the fun started. Just by lvling without tomes. I mean i liked the most untill cantha. Hot was good, pof was a bit worse (but it gave mounts) 

my wow sub is ending in 9 days and i havent looted a single mount (i only did the mount runs for the mounts i want) so i will probably not buying another 60 days playtime. Because its still rng. So it made no difference in rewards. And i came back to wow after 7 years and graphics are less nice because i know better. Sure a lot of skins drop. then maybe i have to take it slow and buy a skin i want (in guildwars 2) 
 

Ofc making gold is easy, but often thats only to buy upgrades. Something thats not needed in guildwars 2. I remember doing wow’s current expansion in cataclysm on warrior. EIGHT (8) weeks a raid boss without being rewarded. Thats awesome about guildwars 2. When you crafted max lvl gear you never have to upgrade (besides infusions and sometimes other runes or sigils) sure guildwars 2 has its better things, but because of EoD i started thinking bad about the game while it also has nice things. 
 

i was planning to buy diablo 4 for awesome fights and kill bosses. Till i realised that i can do this already in guildwars 2. So i wont buy diablo 4. Also its all rng. And i am a casual player. And someone said that the endgame is tier3 and higher. So that not for me. 

to be continued

What are you trying to communicate?

Let’s simplify this… You think Anet is greedy because? 

[Lucy.3728]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:42 PM, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

and gems cost insane amount of gold for a skin

Well instead of boring stuff like fishing, fishing and fishing for a mini pet in WoW, you can spend the same time doing boring stuff like bauble farm (Auric Basin map when baubles are in the loot table) and earn the gold to buy gems. The "loot" pool with gems in your pocket is far greater than with a rod in a pond in any game.

The requirements are low, your armor and skill doesn't matter; you only need the fast mounts and must have the wps unlocked and find a farm squad.

[Swagger.1459]

5 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

But converting gold to gems is not free.....Anet doesn't generate the gems, they take gems that other players already paid money for. It's just like how Star Trek Online handles their cash shop currency: Players can buy zen (cash shop currency) and exchange it for dilithium (in game currency), and vice verse. But if no players are buying zen, but all the F2P players have dilithium banked to exchange for Zen, guess what happens? The F2P players sit on their dilithium for weeks and weeks until more zen becomes available... STO experiences ZEN shortages pretty often these days, and eventually GW2 will experience Gem shortages because it works the same way. 

Point is, the gems aren't "free", someone already paid Anet for them. 

Do you think Anet earns money from players converting gold to gems? 

[Gravitron.7982]

31 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Do you think Anet earns money from players converting gold to gems? 

They've earn engagement from the player grinding the gold. That itself holds a value.