June 27 Balance Update Preview

[Doomcryer.3650]

24 minutes ago, Apokriphos.7042 said:

Beyond the significant changes to Scourge that pretty much eliminates it from the meta, the signet of suffering nerf decimates any necromancer build intent on trying to stay in shroud. 

It is unclear in how it is written, but it looks like they are removing the ability to have signets active in shroud **at all**. 

Please make a beta realm to test these changes before making them live. This patch needs more testing.

Yup. My OW Reaper build is dead.

It can still work by completely replacing signets with "Your soul is mine" and "Spectral grasp" to quickly replenish LifeForce out of shroud but it will not be as comfy to use.

[vrauns.3215]

8 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

 @Rubi Bayer.8493 Fingers crossed that warrior may  one day return to something like this in the days to come  https://youtu.be/9g0kfOzK8lI

I'm not sure you understand was balance is when it comes to pvp.

[Burnfall.9573]

First of all, Necromancer Profession Origin Identity and Roles are Conditions and Feeding on Health--like a Vampire. 

-Necromancer Profession Identity and Role is not being a Dps nor in being a Healer-

-Necromancer Profession regenerates health to allies using wells with  Blood Magic 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Well_of_Blood

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Well_of_Power

 

-Necromancer Profession enhances allies adrenaline-attacks using using Enchancement spells and Hex spells with Blood Magic.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dark_Fury

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Fury

 

Blood Magic is the Benefactor of Allies- Not in healing, nor in Resurrecting Allies, nor in being a Dps role but in Regeneration and Enhancements

 

Where Necromancer Profession shine, is using its Blood Magic on allies with Enhancement spells, to steal enemies heaths and in increasing their physical damage to enemies

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Vampire

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_Pain

 

Here is Necromancer Profession Blood traits

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blood_Magic

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Necromancer Profession - Corruption

Necromancer Profession Corruption is Curse traits

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feast_of_Corruption

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Corrupt_Enchantment

 

Necromancer Profession - Curse

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Curses

 

Guild Wars 2 - Corruption

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corruption

-------------------------------------------------------

Necromancer Profession - Bad Design

- let me begin with Bad Design Consume Conditions. Where did Anet get the idea of Necromancer Profession putting a spell on itself...curse itself, become Vulnerable?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Epidemic

 

Here is another one; Corrosive Poison Cloud. Necromancer Profession weakening itself...really Anet?? Does Death weakens itself because it weakens its enemies? 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrosive_Poison_Cloud

 

Another one again... God of Death  poisoning itself,, putting conditions to itself and bleeding itself... Speechless

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plaguelands

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Master_of_Corruption

 

 Necromancy curing itself are against Necromancy and against Necromancy Code of Dark Arts of Summoning The Dead

Who agreed to add these to Necromancer Profession design? Where did this concept of Necromancy being vulnerable to itself and hurting itself came from?

-Lastly, Necromancer Profession Identity and Role, Is To Not Feel Hopeless and To Not Be Hopeless!!-

Anet, redesign Necromancer Profession Curse and Corruption traits. In fact; redesign Necromancer Profession completely to its true Origin.

(Until than, Anet, I Encourage you to leave Necromancer Profession to itself)

Thank You!  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:40 PM, Antina.5973 said:

It's 30 seconds right now, what do you mean? 😮 "Advance" has no pvp/wvw/pve split and with Pure of Voice if went from 30seconds to 24sec, so why this change claims to reduce recharge when for the past 7 years it WAS NOT 40 seconds recharge... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Advance!"

It's probably just a typo, they did the same for Engineer Elixir C saying it's going from a 25s to 20s when currently it's 40s going to 32s.

[Emeraldshift.6387]

Many have already said in this thread, but the following sums up my feeling after reading the patch notes: Please do not sacrifice so much class identity for the sake of balance. While balance is important, if too much class identity and uniqueness is lost, the fun suffers anyway.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Emeraldshift.6387
fix typo

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:59 PM, vinz.8475 said:

• Unholy Feast: This skill now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.
• Spiteful Spirit: This trait now removes boons instead of converting them into conditions.

I've always looked at spite as the power/boon strip traitline so I don't mind these being removed, Spiteful Spirit is a pretty oppressive trait and I haven't seen anyone axe on a condition/hybrid build for years.

On 6/10/2023 at 3:59 PM, vinz.8475 said:

• Enfeebling Blood: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.
• Lesser Enfeeble: This skill no longer converts boons into conditions.

And here I've always thought of the Curses traitline as Corrutions/Conditions so I don't like them taking away the corrupt from these traits/skills.

As for the wvw scepter cd increases I hope they don't apply to the untraited version which is single target so it shouldn't be an issue for zergs.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:29 PM, CornFarm.9260 said:

I'm sorry I just got home. Does literally anyone at your studio play Warrior anymore??

Like arc divider back down to 1 weaker hit? Quickness-on-hit with burst skill?? (aka. The only thing that you know how to give warrior?) ELIMINATING Daring Dragon which is the ONLY unique variation Bladesworn has??? These were the only remaining  F U N  things my boy had. ANET ARE YOU DRUNK!?

Meanwhile War had nothing added to the cdr traits where it lost cdr, while ranger, guard and ele all got buffs to some of their traits?? & Not to mention every other class (for better or worse) gets a class REWORK.

  DO YOU JUST WANT ALL THE WARRIOR PLAYERS TO QUIT OR WHAT!?

Is it a bad time to inform you that Mending isn't getting the cdr in wvw/pvp?

[taara.3217]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:12 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Chaos Vortex: Reduced clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds.

Hm...
Why not increase clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 12?
If you ask your devoted community - 99.9% will vote for increased option and 0.1% for reduced...

What part of game will be improved thanks to this change? ) I am really interested because it should be some secret and invisible to all of us part of game I hadn't chance to enjoy previously... 

Edited June 16, 2023 by taara.3217

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:25 PM, AlPower.2476 said:

WTF this is even worst than I thougtht at the start; Anet is really nerfing Toolkit in PvP and WvW??? Seriously? Why? ._. I thought that CD change in trait and skills was a global change, but im reading that's PVE ONLY???

CmC, why? what is ur logic behind this change?? ._. you're now killing toolkit in PvP, with any kitten sense....

I think the logic behind this change is that the meta builds were not using the cdr traits in pvp and anet didn't want to give them the cdr for free.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:59 PM, Zephire.8049 said:

The elixir cooldown reductions are nice! But quick scrapper being killed off means it's rather moot, especially as players will still have to fill their bar with other skills and can't bring elixirs even if they wanted to. Not if they want to provide quickness, anyway.

Not every change is going to apply to your gamemode. The HGH changes are aimed at competitive gamemodes and not pve.

Edited June 12, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[HonesltlyX.7164]

7 hours ago, AresGuildwars.6372 said:

Behold, this patch preview has now more negative feedback than last year's "disaster"-patch leading to the reconstruction of the balance team/philosophy. 
This team wanted to farm even more salt than the last it seems, because they broke last year's record. ❤️ No one thought it possible, but here we are congratulating the new team! Congrats! With this out of the way, I once again ask you to not go live with those changes. Best Wishes and we all have to remember to touch some grass! :3

The crazy part is that last year's flop was also in June.

[Lalary.3561]

Hey Anet since you guys love to hug around mindless boonball train, why don't you just give everyone permanent aegis and stability in place of dodge and stun breakers to make things even more easier?

[HonesltlyX.7164]

2 hours ago, DeathStorm.8423 said:

At the rate anet is going, soon there will be no class identity, and it'll come down to what color do you want your spells to be🤣.

Boon corruption will basically be nonexistent if they follow through with this update. But necro wouldn't be the first class to lose its identity.

Every class doesn't need to be able to provide alac and quickness. One or the other is fine. Just make them unique enough with pros and cons so we aren't locking groups to specific classes instead of making every class do everything and force us into your favorites (your obvious favorite is guardian).

Every elite spec does not need a support variant, a condi variant, and a power variant either. Keep things unique and interesting, not boring and the same with a different color of paint (which is the route you guys are currently going down)

Scourge for example was in a great place without alac. It did consistent damage and it's heal variant was great for teaching new players content but if you had an experienced group. Heal Scourge was completely irrelevant. It was a very non-meta training wheel class. I can understand nerfing it a bit to make the environment more healthy, but killing classes completely isn't the answer. Your goal to nerf healscourge completely killed dps scourge. You will constantly have this issue if you keep going down this path you are on. Making every class have an alac elite spec, quickness elite spec, and every elite spec having a power, condi and support variant is going to give you balancing hell. You will always kill one version trying to nerf another. I highly encourage you actually listen to your player base who plays the game a lot. 

Scourge has a core design issue since your goal is 5 targets for everything. You'll need to find a way to either buff the traits on Scourge to make up the lack of shades for dps version, make Scourge shades perma giant and rework that trait so you can better balance the skills for 5-6 target or overhaul the class and make it completely lose its identity. There's not much you can really do since it is a core class issue and yall are adamant with 5 target skill only (which that in itself is fine)

I agree. Class identity should not be compromised in favor of boon diversity.

[AresGuildwars.6372]

45 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Not every change is going to apply to your gamemode.

Tell that Mirage's Dodge Nerf in PvE :'D

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, AresGuildwars.6372 said:

Tell that Mirage's Dodge Nerf in PvE :'D

What are you guys even upset about? Nothing has changed other than you get two dodges and cannot dodge when immobilized/stunned like the rest of us. Maybe I'm missing something but it looks to me that these changes are good for the design of Mirage, no?

Edit: I didn't know Mirage had two dodges in pve already, I see why people might be upset.

Edited June 12, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[vardeleanu.8972]

There are some good things here, but necro changes are a joke and theif changes are pure garbage. Funny how the balance team wants to remove everything unique to necro's class identity while absolutely refusing to acknowledge that thief's class identity IS MORE THAN PERMANENT FORCED DODGING

Edited June 12, 2023 by vardeleanu.8972

[prototypedragon.1406]

2 hours ago, TheRunningSquire.3621 said:

I'm not sure you understand was balance is when it comes to pvp.

Perhaps, but if future updates are a continuation of the 2022 balance fiasco only time shall tell, their is a reason why maces and shields are no longer used for warriors. And in terms of balance vengeance has a 1/3 chance of actually working hence why you may not think it is balanced. And it was more or less aimed towards the balance team unless you have some balance suggestions yourself feel free to suggest some 🤭😉

[shadowpass.4236]

Can you make the dagger 4 for ranger baseline 300 range longer like when https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Off-Hand_Training was in the game?

[Crey.5263]

15 hours ago, shinkamalei.2574 said:

I don't see it. I see carapace and self-defense abilities. Not group protection

Here is the Death Magic Line

Soul Reaping has a single trait for protection when entering shroud but it is self.

Corruptor's Fervor

Edited June 12, 2023 by Crey.5263

[HonesltlyX.7164]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:26 PM, ZEUStiger.3590 said:

Arc Divider change displays a complete misunderstanding of the problem with that skill, attempts to solve an issue that doesn't exist, and in turn nerfs the skill to such an extent, that it kills the whole usage of this weapon in PvE.

The problem with Arc Divider was the overly long AFTERCAST animation, NOT the CAST animation. This problem could've been solved by adjusting the timings on the skill's script to return control over skillcasts to the player slightly earlier, immediately after the 3rd damage wave, instead of waiting for the animation to finish. Or by fixing the weapon stow aftercast cancelling exploit to prevent players from using it to their advantage.

What you're doing here instead is functionally nerfing this skill into non-existence.

Arc Divider single-handedly defined the greatsword weapon in PvE as the "massive cleave" weapon. That became this weapon's whole identity, because without it - it doesn't have one. All other greatsword skills feel incredibly sluggish to use and/or have vastly undertuned damage to make using them desirable. Autoattack is painfully slow, you'll fall asleep before you generate even 10 adrenaline with autoattack chain, much less 30. The movement lock of Hundred Blades makes its damage a joke in any situation other than a completely stationary target, and yet despite this it's still the only GS skill worth using besides Arc Divider. Bladetrail loses half of its effectiveness if there's a wall/pit behind the target. Rush is so slow to deliver its damage that nobody uses it for that, only for mobility, but even the mobility portion is often questionable: when used against moving targets in PvP/WvW due to lag + movement prediction or whatever it can make your character dash in a completely opposite direction from the target or even throw you off a cliff. When a berserker is on greatsword - their goal is to use Arc Divider as many times as they can and switch the hell away from this weapon because it's horrible otherwise.

Your argument that moving from 5.1 total power scaling across 3 waves to 2.5 across 1 wave doesn't impact the skill's damage because it's now faster makes no sense. It would've been that way IF greatsword had any other good skills to use BESIDES Arc Divider to occupy the time you save by reducing the cast animation, but it doesn't have any. IF Arc Divider didn't have a cooldown and relied solely on charging ardenaline (similar to how Decapitate works) then you could make this argument: spend less time in Arc Divider and more time regaining adrenaline to use Arc Divider again. But as it currently stands - the main limiting factor of Arc Divider is its cooldown, which isn't going away with the reduction to cast time

Now about the loss of cleave functionality. Arc Divider was fantastic for clearing lots of low hp enemies, because they would often die from 1 or 2 Arc Divider waves, meaning that the 3rd wave - the one with longest radius - would reach NEW targets, because the closest targets already died. This is a big functionality loss. Players also had the ability to reposition themselves between damage waves and thus hit DIFFERENT targets with each wave. The on-paper 5 target limit in practice often ended up being way higher than that. Increase the number of targets hit from 5 to 15 and then we'll talk.

Even if you're only fighting 5 targets, the 3 hits ensured that each of the 5 targets will get struck all 3 times. Now that there will only be 1 hit - you would have to make up for the damage loss with other skills (for which you now have the extra 1 second that was freed from Arc Divider's cast time), except - oh look - there are no other skills on greatsword that hit 5 targets! Skills 1, 2, 3 have 3 targets limit, 4 requires the targets to be in a line, and 5 is entirely single-target. This is a nerf both to damage and functionality.

Not to mention that you said nothing about the radius of that singular damage wave, so, for the lack of better info, I'm assuming the worst: that it will use the smallest of the 3 prior radii: the 240 one. In which case - this nerf sets the skill's design back to 2015 end even further back actually, because even in 2015 its radius was 450, when it was just a fancier non-berserker GS F1. But hey, wouldn't be the first time you downgrade warrior back to the initial release design, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Don't go forward with this change. You're "hoping it's a usability improvement", but in reality it's the complete opposite. Players will simply never use greatsword anymore - THAT'S the actual usability improvement that's going to happen here. Don't revert the only positive design change to GS that happened since 2012.

 

Rifle changes are ultimately inconsequential. Rifle already was a "do a quick burst and switch away from it asap" weapon (just like GS, ironically), this just makes that burst slightly better. The bigger design issue with the rifle is its inability of SUSTAINED ranged damage, nothing was done here to improve this aspect.

Rifle 4 change will probably make it better to use (but ONLY if the initial dodge has no casttime, otherwise this change is entirely meaningless), although I would much rather preferred if the dodge was a flipover skill which the player could CHOOSE NOT TO USE if they don't want the dodge, just the immob/vuln part.

 

I have nothing to say about quickness berserker other than you better make it kitten sure that giving 100% quickness uptime requires a boon duration investment, because if I'm ever being told again to switch to bannerslave quickness berserker because "it's not a big deal you're only losing 2 utilities 1 dps trait" - I will be very pissed.

^^ THIS

Arc Divider was not taking up space where we didn't want it to. It was doing what the warrior mains was using it for. Mob clearing and burst filler. Even with the power reductions I'd still use it. But, the strike and cast time reductions is not an improvement it's actually a nerf. There is a misunderstanding that power berserkers use GS as a main weapon. This is incorrect.

GS was used soley for Arc Divider when everything else is on cooldown. No one is going to use this anymore. DO NOT REDUCE THE CAST TIME AND NUMBER OF STRIKES.

[Acheron.1580]

Well after everyone has Alac and Quick I'm sure we'll also get a look at healing builds for classes that don't really have good ones like mesmer and that will be pretty cool. Oh but you know what, Renegade and Herald can do both healing and dps while providing alac and quickness, and some classes can't, so we should also make sure all classes can do the same. But you won't want any class to be toooo good at being able to dps and heal and provide buffs, so those elite specs are just going to need another nerf, probably best to just get rid of their defining traits. And then at the end of those 2-4 years of wild and weird patches to address equality maybe there will be new members on the team who will do the right thing and just get rid of alac and quickness 🙂 

[soul.9651]

5 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Well after everyone has Alac and Quick I'm sure we'll also get a look at healing builds for classes that don't really have good ones like mesmer and that will be pretty cool. Oh but you know what, Renegade and Herald can do both healing and dps while providing alac and quickness, and some classes can't, so we should also make sure all classes can do the same. But you won't want any class to be toooo good at being able to dps and heal and provide buffs, so those elite specs are just going to need another nerf, probably best to just get rid of their defining traits. And then at the end of those 2-4 years of wild and weird patches to address equality maybe there will be new members on the team who will do the right thing and just get rid of alac and quickness 🙂 

Ikr so many heal renegades and heal heralds these days at lfg 😧 it replaced allllll of the hfb and heal mechs aswell 😧

[Gesbo.6420]

I just want to note that mesmer still have all its weapon skill recharge traits in this patch too btw... 

[Acheron.1580]

Less a commentary about the current state of the game and more about the current state of the design philosophy. But I mean as a good point, do you think the proposed changes are going to see more alac HS replacing HaM?

[Saitam Valema.5642]

I have a small question about the Seize the Moment change (chrono quickness). How will it interact with Phantasmal Haste (Illusions Traitline), since both of these trait now give quickness when summoning a phantasm?