Warrior walk out

[felix.2386]

Just now, GamerToad.9248 said:

and the math says it will be a dps loss even still.

and cmc already stated it's not intended.

[Treacy.4067]

15 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

and cmc already stated it's not intended.

So not only will it reduce the fun of game play, it's a dps loss as a result that wasn't intended, one that will need yet another fix. Not a good look and it really doesn't instill me with confidence.  I really hope they're listening to this feedback and don't go through with this Arc Divider change.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

and cmc already stated it's not intended.

Why dance around the core issue? The intent of the change is to make Arc Divider easier to avoid. Even that is unnecessary. The damage numbers of the new proposed arc divider being a dps loss is just sub-problem of the main problem, which is zerker shouldn't be getting more arbitrary hoops to jump through to hit people in the first place. 

Edit: What Treacy said. Not only is it less usable, it's also less powerful. Since berserker wasn't churning high numbers in PVE to begin with, the only logical explanation for this is that it's a competitive change, and seeing as how Power Zerker is nonexistent in SPvP because it's stupid levels of ineffective, that leaves-

Edited June 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261
WvW. It leaves people in WvW that aren't dodging. This is also why they reduced the damage it did in WvW a patch before. We're getting balanced around the least situationally aware people in the game and then being asked to compete with the most aware.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

8 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Why dance around the core issue? The intent of the change is to make Arc Divider easier to avoid. Even that is unnecessary. The damage numbers of the new proposed arc divider being a dps loss is just sub-problem of the main problem, which is zerker shouldn't be getting more arbitrary hoops to jump through to hit people in the first place. 

Edit: What Treacy said. Not only is it less usable, it's also less powerful. Since berserker wasn't churning high numbers in PVE to begin with, the only logical explanation for this is that it's a competitive change, and seeing as how Power Zerker is nonexistent in SPvP because it's stupid levels of ineffective, that leaves-

I really don't see how this change is going to be a nerf. As long as Arc Divider retains its large radius, it will essentially be a low-CD, huge aoe arcing slice that doesn't need the target to be below 50% to do max dmg. The faster cast time and having all the dmg being loaded into one attack (rather than spread out over 3 slow attacks) should make it much easier to land damage. This should be a good change.

[GamerToad.9248]

1 minute ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I really don't see how this change is going to be a nerf. As long as Arc Divider retains its large radius, it will essentially be a low-CD, huge aoe arcing slice that doesn't need the target to be below 50% to do max dmg. The faster cast time and having all the dmg being loaded into one attack (rather than spread out over 3 slow attacks) should make it much easier to land damage. This should be a good change.

You clearly don't play warrior and it is ok. but this change is not good gs don't allow a fast paced combo like axe.

only one skill is good for DPS which makes it hard to build adrenaline so making it work like axes won't help at all will only make worse since gs is only worth foe 100b and burst in case of dps.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

11 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I really don't see how this change is going to be a nerf. 

They didn't say it will be a large radius. Let's assume it is though, even though this goes against every tingling sense in my body given how they treat warrior reworks. 

Imagine you use this skill prepatch, and a blind or block comes up. you have a trait or traits that rely on you hitting to get value from them. What do you get? 

Now imagine that same scenario, but your burst is single strike. What happens now?

Which scenario is better for you?

I don't care about doing extreme amounts of damage with one hit all the time. I have decapitate for that. Arc Divider is useful for a bunch of other situations like sapping mesmer shatter strength and pushing stealthed thieves, both of which already counter zerk. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

They didn't say it will be a large radius.

Imagine you use this skill prepatch, and a blind or block comes up. you have a trait or traits that rely on you hitting to get value from them. What do you get? 

Now imagine that same scenario, but your burst is single strike. What happens now?

I don't care about doing extreme amounts of damage with one hit all the time. I have decapitate for that. Arc Divider is useful for a bunch of other situations like sapping mesmer shatter strength and pushing stealthed thieves, both of which already counter zerk. 

It is a double-edged sword, I admit (and did so earlier in this thread as well). And I am taking it on faith that Arc Divider will still have at least a 360 radius, otherwise it will certainly suck. But my point is that this is not a straight up nerf; there is a fair bit of benefit that will come with this change, too. It may not be what you personally would desire for the skill, but that doesn't mean that there won't be new strengths that you can lean into should you so desire.

Blind will be more of a problem, certainly. Fortunately, resilient roll (and even bloody roar, to a lesser extent) can help mitigate that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, GamerToad.9248 said:

You clearly don't play warrior and it is ok. but this change is not good gs don't allow a fast paced combo like axe.

You clearly don't pay attention to the subforum you are posting in. I get it, r/Guildwars2 is on blackout and you had to go post somewhere, but you're talking to some long-time warriors in this thread.

As to whether the new Arc Divider is a buff or nerf:

In PvE: Straight nerf as has been mathed out. CMC and Roy don't want it to be a nerf, so they will at minimum buff the coefficient now that the Berserker Benchmarker for Snowcrows has called it out, either before patch day or in the following patch.

In PvP/WvW: Most will be running EC and not BR so if they are not running Defense for Resilient Roll then this will also be a straight nerf. I can see leaning into it with the meme signet build though. It will be a meme but you'll see just as many QQ threads as you do for Gunflame about how 'unfair' this version of Arc Divider is from the zero dodge lemmings in the WvW forum. (I will be instagibbing people that week in WvW with it)

[oscuro.9720]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:13 PM, Treacy.4067 said:

It's not just about the numbers which, quite frankly, is the problem.  You should be able to balance classes without removing class identity and what makes specific professions fun.

Like with what happened a year ago after the infamous banner patch, I'll probably just quit altogether but maybe come back if they fix it. The Arc Divider change is deal breaker for me unfortunately.

Doesn’t this perfectly describe guardian and their GS?

[eXruina.4956]

double post

Edited June 12, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

58 minutes ago, GamerToad.9248 said:

Btw who is walking around in my account to confused spam my ally post in a spam of 10 second... pretty lame ... touch the doll here showing where the warrior touched you.

welcome to the club, mine's been following me around since march. 🤣

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

59 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

faith

M0rTIS

I am assuming it is the worst possible version until proven otherwise. I don't have the morale banked for that.

Quote

It may not be what you personally would desire for the skill, but that doesn't mean that there won't be new strengths that you can lean into should you so desire.

The problem is that it didn't need fixing, and the way it's being changed benefits the warrior's opponent more than it benefits the warrior, despite warrior not overperforming. Like always. it will hit the people it always hit, but it will miss more frequently on people that know how to play.

Forgive my jadedness, but there's good reason for it. 

[HonesltlyX.7164]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:15 PM, Myror.7521 said:

@GamerToad.9248 you know Arc divider is technicaly only "nerfed" in Open World right? 

In Instanced PvE it is just the same DPS rotation wise. In PvP its ways better now. In WvW you could get the full dps Sometimes in Zerks but thats optimal thing Most of the time its Just cced so you will get less dmg out off it. So technicaly i wouldnt lie by saying Most peops complain about this Nerf are Just openworld Players or maybe WvW zerg Players ^^

 

EDIT: Confuse Smile Spam me as often as wanted its just true and you will see it after its Just right in the Game ^^

No. Patch notes say "PvE". Meaning in all PvE content including strikes, raids, fractals, and open world. These is actual PvE game modes that exist in the game.

"Arc Divider: Reduced the number of strikes from 3 to 1. Reduced the casting time from 1.86 seconds to 0.8 seconds. Reduced total power coefficient from 5.1 to 2.5 in PvE and from 2.112 to 1.82 in PvP."

Going from a 3 hit cast time to only 1 hit at a far less power coefficient will drastically change the dps rotation for the worst. Greatsword contributed greatly to power warrior dps in those PvE content. Not everyone plays WvW and there is still a community that enjoys playing warrior in PvE.

[Myror.7521]

@HonesltlyX.7164 well i mean its only just a slightly nerf to warrior in Instanced PvE content. The over all dps will drop from 41k DPS to around 39k. But this is nothing that can't be adressed by numbers Increase. For Open World PvE how ever its a hard nerf if your last on greatsword for more than 5 Seconds. In PvP/WvW it could now get countered by blinding and Aegis but also you are not in a that last long Animation so its a nerf but also a buff at the same time in this case (since it will still do near the same amount of dmg as before in PvP/WvW) but overall its better controlable to get the full dmg out off it.

 

If you do not trust me there is actually a Thread from a snowcrows member. Just Check it Out:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/131779-pdps-berserker-benchmarks-in-pve-june-27-estimations/#comment-1911453

[Rongaron.9213]

2 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

nerf but also a buff at the same time

you have realized this never worked on warriors? like for example rework of Bladesworn's gunsaber 1 skill projectiles? i would consider this rework as good one if not that damm damage reduction by 66% on projectiles and its even on pve...PVE! . Jesus Christ how people can be so blind to fact that arena net most of patches kept beat Warrior with nerfs and nerfs hidded inside so called reworks, the only rework they did right so far is one with defensive trait tree a while ago (even if i miss thougness from power trait still, but atleast stability boon benefits are quite nice) after it, again Warriors gets wacked by nerfs or poor worked reworks wich is a joke for years by now, and finaly after for many years flurry burst wont root you in place, when i can hope the same thing happen for gs second skill to be moveable? another 10 years?

[HonesltlyX.7164]

32 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@HonesltlyX.7164 well i mean its only just a slightly nerf to warrior in Instanced PvE content. The over all dps will drop from 41k DPS to around 39k. But this is nothing that can't be adressed by numbers Increase. For Open World PvE how ever its a hard nerf if your last on greatsword for more than 5 Seconds. In PvP/WvW it could now get countered by blinding and Aegis but also you are not in a that last long Animation so its a nerf but also a buff at the same time in this case (since it will still do near the same amount of dmg as before in PvP/WvW) but overall its better controlable to get the full dmg out off it.

 

If you do not trust me there is actually a Thread from a snowcrows member. Just Check it Out:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/131779-pdps-berserker-benchmarks-in-pve-june-27-estimations/#comment-1911453

It's not about numbers, its about usability. PvE power warrior used greatsword Arc Divider for a "burst filler" when Axe/Axe skills are all on cooldown. The problem with this change is that they reduced the cast time where it was actually fine where it was. The reason is because there isn't anything worth using in the greatsword skill set other than GS2 and GS3 while both Arc Divider cast time has finished and now on cooldown while Axes abilities are also still on cooldown. This is why I say that the change will drastically make the dps rotation worst.

The GS loop was a great filler in a high intensity rotation that felt rewarding and satisfying to use. The damage I can understand, but the justification for the usability aspect isn't there. Whoever made this change doesn't understand the role that Arc Divider played in the power berserker dps rotation and hasn't had first hand experience using it.

The post you highlighted also concluded similarly.

"Concluding thoughts:
While both DPS variants will probably do a similar and balanced amount of DPS, the new Arc Divider will most likely feel AWFUL to use, since it does way less damage than we are used to. For it to feel good to use I suggest increasing its damage coefficient by a bit and definitely make sure that it still has the same range as the last hit of the current Arc Divider to at least make it feel better than Arcing Slice (GS Core F1 Burst)."

Where my conclusion differs is that it will feel worst because of the 2 strike reduction and cast time reduction. The only thing they needed to do was reduce Arc Dividers power coefficients. There is no need to make it into another Arcing Slice.

Edited June 12, 2023 by HonesltlyX.7164
Include post reference and my conclusion.

[Myror.7521]

@HonesltlyX.7164 yea but thats just an opinion thing. To me a big fast hit is more satisfiying in the sence of the theme the e-spec just have. Its a Berserker and its description said: "It fills adrenalin to just get access to fast hitting burst skills" In this case the new one will fit prefect in this sence. How ever i still get why peops prefer 3 hits instead of 1. Its Animation looks more satifiying over all also its a bit red circle skill. Tho besides all this its just a as you said skill with a high cast time. This makes the skill itself pretty worse in PvP than the new one will cause of 2 reasons:

1. Its  a easy to cc skill

2. The fact it been a 3 hit skill made it hard luckluster into get every dmg out off the skill at least in Builds where you not use a 100% crit chance ^^

At the end of the Day it could get endless discussed what is now better. In the end both got some pros and cons. Its just an personal opinion and if A-Net thinks that the new one just made more sence well why not?^^

EDIT: i forgot to mention that it was able to hit more than 5 targets ... my fail xD but also a point just for the Version of it we now have ^^

Edited June 12, 2023 by Myror.7521

[HonesltlyX.7164]

1 minute ago, Myror.7521 said:

@HonesltlyX.7164 yea but thats just an opinion thing. To me a big fast hit is more satisfiying in the sence of the theme the e-spec just have. Its a Berserker and its description said: "It fills adrenalin to just get access to fast hitting burst skills" In this case the new one will fit prefect in this sence. How ever i still get why peops prefer 3 hits instead of 1. Its Animation looks more satifiying over all also its a bit red circle skill. Tho besides all this its just a as you said skill with a high cast time. This makes the skill itself pretty worse in PvP than the new one will cause of 2 reasons:

1. Its not a easy to cc skill anymore

2. The fact it been a 3 hit skill made it hard luckluster into get every dmg out off the skill at least in Builds where you not use a 100% crit chance ^^

You are still just viewing the skill through a PvP lense. Not PvE. It's fine if you enjoy playing a Power Berserker in WvW, I honestly do not know anyone that plays Power Berserker in WvW. But, try to see it through the lenses of PvE which the nerf is impacting the most. I am assuming this is where we aren't on the same page because I just do not understand how you can arrive to your conclusions.

Perhaps it is a difference of opinion, although I have seen post of people with similar opinions to my own. This is a general consensus. You are the only one I have spoken to so far that seem to favor this change. The 3 quick strikes in succession doesn't feel slow. I don't know what use it served in WvW. But, in PvE it is mostly a filler. GS isn't favored for anything more than that.

Lastly, it is incredibly easy now to get 100% crit cap on berserker with improvements to its crit trait lines in the previous patches. When you are in berserker mode and this is when Arc Divider can only be used, you get a huge increase in precision. Anyone who isn't crit capped on a power build isn't playing it optimally. This is true of every power build out there.

[Myror.7521]

@HonesltlyX.7164 Yea as said I could see why you guys are mad it will change. But and this is my standing since game release, a game that get also PvP in it should always get animation wise balanced in terms of PvP and not PvE.In terms of PvE it would be mostly just numbers changing. This makes sence cause a game full balanced just around PvE would made the PvP experience worse cause of clunky animations (just as 3  hits arc divider) that could ezily be interruptet.

 

And yes I am highly focused on PvP since thats what i do since release 90% of the time. But aside this you can't denie that this thinking wouln't be correct ^^

[HonesltlyX.7164]

24 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@HonesltlyX.7164 Yea as said I could see why you guys are mad it will change. But and this is my standing since game release, a game that get also PvP in it should always get animation wise balanced in terms of PvP and not PvE.In terms of PvE it would be mostly just numbers changing. This makes sence cause a game full balanced just around PvE would made the PvP experience worse cause of clunky animations (just as 3  hits arc divider) that could ezily be interruptet.

 

And yes I am highly focused on PvP since thats what i do since release 90% of the time. But aside this you can't denie that this thinking wouln't be correct ^^

Then why didn't Anet state that this change was made for improvements to PvP. The reason they stated for the change doesn't justify it. This is why I say Anet isn't aware about what Arc Divider is used for. In any case, Arc Divider is going to he useless for PvE if Anet decides to keep this change. No one will want to use it.

Edited June 12, 2023 by HonesltlyX.7164

[Leo G.4501]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

M0rTIS

I am assuming it is the worst possible version until proven otherwise. I don't have the morale banked for that.

The problem is that it didn't need fixing, and the way it's being changed benefits the warrior's opponent more than it benefits the warrior, despite warrior not overperforming. Like always. it will hit the people it always hit, but it will miss more frequently on people that know how to play.

Forgive my jadedness, but there's good reason for it. 

Well I'm glad someone else said it. Basically, the reason for this particular change is practically non existent.

The hilarious thing is, I took a break from this game all the way back when Arc Divider did that weird flame spinny thing and got back just a few weeks ago to learn GS primary burst was actually good in PvE. 

I'm sure all you guys don't give two sh*ts about casual PvE players anymore but I have this sneaking suspicion this new version will put GS in a similar spot it was before.

I guess it's more important the couple dozen PvP gurus get their win in a spreadsheet tho and let the hundreds of filthy casuals sit and spin (once but not 3 times) or pick up axes (again...).

[Leo G.4501]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@HonesltlyX.7164 yea but thats just an opinion thing. To me a big fast hit is more satisfiying in the sence of the theme the e-spec just have. Its a Berserker and its description said: "It fills adrenalin to just get access to fast hitting burst skills" In this case the new one will fit prefect in this sence. How ever i still get why peops prefer 3 hits instead of 1. Its Animation looks more satifiying over all also its a bit red circle skill. Tho besides all this its just a as you said skill with a high cast time. This makes the skill itself pretty worse in PvP than the new one will cause of 2 reasons:

I'd also add, with a longer animation, it makes quickness feel more dynamic. Because if every skill has a 0.25 to 0.8 cast time, animations are practically not even there. It's just a blur of damage/heal numbers. Having the occasional long animation accentuated weight and impact. 

On the other hand, this PvP-centric balance rational of wanting to time skill use and provide counter play sounds contradictory to me with all these requests to remove roots and just cast everything on the move. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Leo G.4501

[Myror.7521]

@HonesltlyX.7164 nah it will not be useless not even close. Its still a big aoe hit. Only thing why it will just be worse is cause it does not deal enoug dmg to compensate the 2 seconds window that get lost cause of a faster animation plus it does not hit more than 5 peops (this scene tho would not happen pretty often to be fair xd)

Edited June 12, 2023 by Myror.7521

[felix.2386]

10 hours ago, Treacy.4067 said:

So not only will it reduce the fun of game play

there's literally 0 fun in hard stuck in an unresponsive long-channeling skill that can be dodged by even a monkey.

you have no idea how much more gameplay rich is arcing slice, compared to arc divider.

[DKRathalos.9625]

I mean GrandMarshal and I already founding the exodus movement approximately 2 years ago when they keep ruining warrior. So it's never too late to join the exodus guys, you can even stop playing the game too instead of stop playing warrior, free to choose which one. Still playing the game but boycotting warrior? Nice. Completely not playing the game? That's fine too 😄