pDPS Berserker Benchmarks in PvE - June 27 Estimations

[Baseraver.7241]

Hello, I am Baseraver. I create benchmarks for Snowcrows on Power DPS Berserker and would like to reach out to @Cal Cohen.2358 and give feedback on how the balance changes with the June 27 Patch will influence the Power DPS Berserker Benchmarks, both for the pure Axe/Axe and the GS + Axe/Axe Setup. Many thanks to Bekko and CostaPrimo from the warrior community for greatly helping out with calculations and theorycrafting!

The changes that will influence our DPS will be the following:
[1. Bloody Roar: Reduced the increased damage provided from 25 to 20% in PvE only.]

Nothing is wrong with toning down numbers a bit but please make sure this time, that this modifier will stay multiplicative when nerfed to 20% and not function as an additive modifier by accident like in the past. Calculated DPS decrease: 4% (Factor: DPS x (1/1.25) x 1.20 = DPS x 0.96).

[2. Blood Reaction: Increased the base precision-to-ferocity conversion to 10%. This trait now converts 10% of power to condition damage. These bonuses are still doubled in berserk mode.]

Meaning only this will affect Power Builds: Gain Ferocity Based on a Percentage of Precision: 14% --> 20% during Berserk. Calculated DPS increase: ~2.9% (Factor: DPS x 1.029). / Credit: CostaPrimo
This is a welcome buff to fairly compensate for the nerfed Bloody Roar.

[3. Arc Divider: Reduced the number of strikes from 3 to 1. Reduced the casting time from 1.86 seconds to 0.8 seconds. Reduced total power coefficient from 5.1 to 2.5 in PvE.]

The influence of this change was a bit more complicated to calculate. We took the numbers from the current benchmark for the GS variant out of this DPS log: https://dps.report/0ImQ-20230502-185448_golem. The calculations are shown in this sheet:  https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/710389801865576468/1117391024097067078/image.png. Full Credit go to Bekko for these calculations and the thoughts behind it. (Note: The new Arc Divider cast time is set at 498ms with quickness by taking the old cast time and scaling it down with the information we have. We dont know how the new Arc Divider will look like and if a potential aftercast animation can be canceled via stow.)

The new Arc Divider will only hit once and its cast time has been reduced significantly. However, its damage potential has also been cut down immensely. The Greatsword variant switches from Axe/Axe to GS during downtime of Axe Skills, following it up with a GS loop rotation.

Current Patch: Time spent in this loop is about 6.98s before we swap back to Axes doing roughly 291,886 damage in total leading to roughly 41,817 DPS during the Greatsword Loop.
June 27 Patch: Time spent in this loop is estimated to be about 5.00s before we swap back to Axes doing roughly 199,668 damage in total leading to roughly 39,937 DPS during the Greatsword Loop.
For example, the combo F1, Heal, F1 will only do about 60,000 damage with one swing each instead of 120,000 damage with 3 swings each. It WILL feel miserable for everyone who enjoyed Arc Dividers high damage numbers flashing up on their screens.

While you may think that a shorter GS Loop means you can probably get more loops out in the same time period (say for example 90s), you still have to consider that you need to compare how much more DPS the GS Loop does compared to just camping Axe/Axe and how much time during the GS Loop is spent casting Arc Dividers (%) compared to casting other, lower DPS Greatsword skills (%) (pre patch and post patch differs!) On top of that, more GS Loops are not necessarily possible since you want the cooldowns of Blood Reckoning, Wild Blow and Head Butt/Outrage to line up with the rotation. The 2s of time we gain will be invested to make the Axe Loop 2s longer for example to get the CDs to line up perfectly again with the rotation. We win nothing, instead we lose DPS because Camping Axe is baseline lower DPS anyway.

Because of these dynamics, the following simplified train of thought is wrong:
Pre Patch Arc Divider: 5.1 coefficient/ 1.86s cast time = 2.742 coeff/s without taking quickness into consideration versus 
Post Patch Arc Divider: 2.5 coefficient/ 0.80s cast time = 3.125 coeff/s without taking quickness into consideration. 
You might think that the GS variant will not experience a significant nerf following this idea, but that is wrong.

What does this mean?
Axe/- -/Axe Power DPS Berserker Estimation: 38,788 DPS (down from 39,266) after applying the nerf to Bloody Roar and the buff to Blood Reaction to the current Benchmarks End Number (Full Credit to Pagan Dreamer.)
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIgooah86gY.
Log: https://dps.report/WMQx-20230503-144349_golem

Axe/Axe + Greatsword Power DPS Berserker Estimation: 39,000-39,500 DPS (down from 42,234) after taking into consideration that Greatsword might still be able to push DPS slightly higher compared to the pure Axe/Axe variant and after applying the nerf to Bloody Roar and the buff to Blood Reaction to the current Benchmarks End Number:
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EZx5RsGy84
Log: https://dps.report/0ImQ-20230502-185448_golem

Relating to the GS Variant, when the change to Arc Divider was discussed on stream, here is what Roy and cmc said about it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1842006044?t=1h11m53s
The Link is timed to 1h11m53s. A little bit into the discussion, the important section was:
"Pretty significant reduction in PvE, but obviously the casting time is going to be over 1 second quicker. So youre going to be spending a lot less time casting a skill, give you a lot more time to use other skills to make up for the damage loss. Or hoping that this is not a damage loss. The goal here is that, you know, this is just a usability improvement. The overall damage of berserker builds in PvE should be about the same. And we`ll obviously, like, make additional changes to fix that up if this ends up being too much of a damage loss."

- Just looking at damage/cast time in this case is not enough as described above.
- Another problem is, the other skills in GS are not worth casting compared to current Arc Divider. "More time to use other skills" automatically is a DPS loss because other skills like GS2 are too low damage/cast time. And GS2 has a considerably long cast time even. Its simply used to fill time and generate enough adrenaline for the next F1.
- Feedback concerning your second last statement in this quote: The gap between Axe/Axe and the more difficult Axe/Axe + GS variant will be much smaller with these changes. However, the GS build will suffer significantly.

Concluding thoughts:
While both DPS variants will probably do a similar and balanced amount of DPS, the new Arc Divider will most likely feel awful to use, since it does way less damage than we are used to. For it to feel good to use I suggest increasing its damage coefficient by a bit and definitely make sure that it still has the same range as the last hit of the current Arc Divider to at least make it feel better than Arcing Slice (GS Core F1 Burst).

Sidenote: GS2 (Hundred Blades) damage output and functionality has not been touched for a long time. That skill not only roots you in place for a very long time and only affects targets in front you, but it also just does a very low amount of damage for these risky limitations and long cast time. Sometimes you have to cancel GS2 to not get downed for example. You might consider reworking it. For instance, Axe 5 is not only stronger, but you can also move freely while channeling it. However, keep in mind that GS2 is mainly used in benchmark rotations because there is no better option to generate 10 Adrenaline for the next Arc Divider (together with GS4) fast enough due to its multihits. The multihits and adrenaline gain are important for the GS Loop to work.

Thank you for reading and big thanks to Bekko and CostaPrimo once again for their contributions!

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Baseraver.7241

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Another point towards not changing Arc divider , good job on the calcs!

[Jzaku.9765]

Thanks to everyone involved in doing the calcs. I'd take that slight DPS nerf in exchange for a rotation with better qol any time, so here's hoping that new Arc Divider doesn't have significant aftercast delay and they take a look at the rest of GS some day.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Jzaku.9765

[Adonaj.7932]

so pure axe/axe is almost the same damage as axe/axe gs. the question is what the reason to play harder rotation with almost same result for most of playerbase? i have no words. they want to simplify everithing.

[GamerToad.9248]

Well i already made a new character a revenant..

I'm gonna put my warrior to bank. i already see that they don't know how balance warrior or even care to understand.

[Myror.7521]

@Adonaj.7932 gues the answer would be. GS is Just an AoE while Axe one is single target besides this it also does as least slightly higher dmg still 

 

@Baseraver.7241 im just one of the defenders for new Arc divider. To me the current one feels somewhat clunky to use cause Well its big Cast time. I would prefer the new one over the old by any means cause its fit better to the "big fast burst Hit" theme that goes on Berserker. If i want big Hit with big Animation i would simply Go for Bladesworn. Buuuut besides this .... all I hear by this Post is .... its slightly nerfed dps so a simply buff in Terms of dmg would be good enough to bring it in line with old Berserkers Arc Divider DPS ^^

 

EDIT: If they Just rework so it get no big AoE as oldest Arc Divider does then Well I would be also angry xd

Edited June 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Baseraver.7241]

@Myror.7521 for comparison:

GS Loop (ca. 7s Loop) with Old Arc Divider: Features 3 x F1 = 3 x 5.1 coefficient = 15.3 (180k damage)
GS Loop (ca. 5s Loop) with New Arc Divider: Features 3 x F1 = 3 x 2.5 coefficient = 7.5 (90k damage)

Its a nerf regardless of the 2s of time we gain because we simply spend 2s longer in Axe/Axe which is baseline already lower DPS than the GS Loop. We need to spend 2s more time in Axe/Axe for the CDs of Blood Reckoning, Wild Blow and Head Butt to line up with the rotation again.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Baseraver.7241

[Myror.7521]

@Baseraver.7241 yea its just an nerf for Power zerker itself. Thats just what i get ^^. 

[HeliosMagi.9867]

Hmm, what if they gave new Arc Divider Decapitate's 'reset cooldown on hit' property, enabling a 4th Arc Divider during the GS loop via Outrage?

Unless they do that and give it at least 360, preferably 480 radius I'm completely against the changes to Arc Divider. Becoming a whirling tornado of death in a large crowd of enemies is the most fun thing about Berserker to me, and I don't want to lose that.

[Myror.7521]

@HeliosMagi.9867 this would be funny but would end ub to be broken in every gamemode besides PvE to be fair xD. I would be hard dispointed If the new one would Not be a big AoE Leap btw xd

Edited June 11, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Katary.7096]

If only the update from August 23 2022 had buffed GS#2 and GS#3 power coefficients along with the rest of the kit, then Warriors might be swapping to a Greatsword weaponset for something more than just the burst skill...

For reference:

 Greatsword Swing: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 0.7 to 0.8.

 Greatsword Slice: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 0.95 to 1.05.

 Brutal Strike: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.25 to 1.5.

 Arcing Slice: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.32 to 2. Damage multiplier against foes under 50% health increased from 1.98 to 3.

 Bladetrail: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 0.75 to 1.5.

 Rush: (PvE only) Damage multiplier increased from 1.7 to 2.5.

[Atomnium.1532]

Wrong thread sorry

Edited June 11, 2023 by Atomnium.1532

[Noro.2879]

Anet pls. All the greatsword skills outside arc divider are in such a sorry state.

The only GS skill outside of arc divider that's good is GS4 and it is visually uninteresting and is such a massive pain to use on fights where the platform has edges it can fall off of.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

13 hours ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

Hmm, what if they gave new Arc Divider Decapitate's 'reset cooldown on hit' property-

Now you're talking.
That is where I'd start agreeing with it.

[Baseraver.7241]

New Power DPS Berserker Benchmark - 27th june Patch

Axe/- -/Axe with 38,757 DPS by Pagandreamer

Axe/Axe + Greatsword: Dead.

The new Arc Divider and all GS skills are worse DPS than simply camping Axes. The shortened Arc Divider throws off the entire rotation (with a GS Loop ~5s or so) because cooldowns wont line up anymore for the Axe Loop, therefore, extending Berserk properly doesnt work anymore and delays on Berserk extenders leads to us losing Berserk during a golem Benchmark.

You can try to extend the GS Loop instead to ~7s by using an extra GS auto chain or GS5 to make up for the shortened Arc Divider but this is straight up a DPS Loss since all GS Skills are bad DPS now. (38.1k DPS is what i got during a golem parse by doing this, since it allowed me to not lose berserk this way at least). Greatsword is dead and will be taken off the Snowcrows site with the next update to the site unless a fix is coming in time.

Cheers

Edited June 30, 2023 by Baseraver.7241

[DanAlcedo.3281]

53 minutes ago, Baseraver.7241 said:

New Power DPS Berserker Benchmark - 27th june Patch

Axe/- -/Axe with 38,757 DPS by Pagandreamer:

Axe/Axe + Greatsword: Dead.

The new Arc Divider and all GS skills are worse DPS than simply camping Axes. The shortened Arc Divider throws off the entire rotation (with a GS Loop ~5s or so) because cooldowns wont line up anymore for the Axe Loop, therefore, extending Berserk properly doesnt work anymore and delays on Berserk extenders leads to us losing Berserk during a golem Benchmark.

You can try to extend the GS Loop instead to ~7s by using an extra GS auto chain or GS5 to make up for the shortened Arc Divider but this is straight up a DPS Loss since all GS Skills are bad DPS now. (38.1k DPS is what i got during a golem parse by doing this, since it allowed me to not lose berserk this way at least). Greatsword is dead and will be taken off the Snowcrows site with the next update to the site unless a fix is coming in time.

Cheers

May GS rest in peace. 

😔

[suffish.4150]

2 hours ago, Baseraver.7241 said:

New Power DPS Berserker Benchmark - 27th june Patch

Axe/- -/Axe with 38,757 DPS by Pagandreamer

Axe/Axe + Greatsword: Dead.

The new Arc Divider and all GS skills are worse DPS than simply camping Axes. The shortened Arc Divider throws off the entire rotation (with a GS Loop ~5s or so) because cooldowns wont line up anymore for the Axe Loop, therefore, extending Berserk properly doesnt work anymore and delays on Berserk extenders leads to us losing Berserk during a golem Benchmark.

You can try to extend the GS Loop instead to ~7s by using an extra GS auto chain or GS5 to make up for the shortened Arc Divider but this is straight up a DPS Loss since all GS Skills are bad DPS now. (38.1k DPS is what i got during a golem parse by doing this, since it allowed me to not lose berserk this way at least). Greatsword is dead and will be taken off the Snowcrows site with the next update to the site unless a fix is coming in time.

Cheers

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230630-125720_StdGolem_kill

this is a log of me beating that axe/axe benchmark using the greatsword setup. I think you are definitely wrong about GS being dead because it feels to me like it should do more dps (on a golem at least) than just axe/axe. After about an hour of benching, this was the highest number on arcdps which is always slightly different to the ingame number but I beat that 38.7k bench on every run where I didn’t make a significant mistake.
I don’t see myself as particularly good on berserker either and someone better could push this at least a few hundred dps higher than I did since I have never beaten an SC golem benchmark before. I feel like the rotation I did in this log is the most optimal one (I worked it out myself) but maybe someone like you could find some improvements. I wouldn’t give up on greatsword just yet.

[Baseraver.7241]

5 hours ago, suffish.4150 said:

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/log/20230630-125720_StdGolem_kill

this is a log of me beating that axe/axe benchmark using the greatsword setup. I think you are definitely wrong about GS being dead because it feels to me like it should do more dps (on a golem at least) than just axe/axe. After about an hour of benching, this was the highest number on arcdps which is always slightly different to the ingame number but I beat that 38.7k bench on every run where I didn’t make a significant mistake.
I don’t see myself as particularly good on berserker either and someone better could push this at least a few hundred dps higher than I did since I have never beaten an SC golem benchmark before. I feel like the rotation I did in this log is the most optimal one (I worked it out myself) but maybe someone like you could find some improvements. I wouldn’t give up on greatsword just yet.

I stand corrected!
I gave it a few pulls, the idea is very good, 39,085 ingame as well:
https://dps.report/kHDu-20230630-182850_golem

great job on finding this iteration

39,469 DPS ingame so far: https://dps.report/XdQm-20230630-192923_golem 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Baseraver.7241

[Peacekid.1463]

i dnt know what the devs goal on nerfing arc divider...is the skill a threat to other class? look berserker in common sense should be WILD...berserker skills should be wild now toning down for no reason is oh boy i have no good word/s to describe it.

[Baseraver.7241]

Okay, with suffish.4150 finding this new sequence which works with the new shortened GS Loop, here we are:

Power DPS Berserker Benchmarks June 2023

Axe/Axe + GS

Axe/- + -/Axe

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Baseraver.7241

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

8 hours ago, Baseraver.7241 said:

Okay, with suffish.4150 finding this new sequence which works with the new shortened GS Loop, here we are:

Power DPS Berserker Benchmarks June 2023

Axe/Axe + GS

Axe/- + -/Axe

 

Which still underperforms other DPS specs that hit 40k+. Sounds like it still needs some buffs. Otherwise, why not play power hammer SpB which a) breaks 40k DPS, b) brings way more CC, and c) is more survivable?

[Lighter.5631]

any one tried hammer berserker tho?

[Valate.2594]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Which still underperforms other DPS specs that hit 40k+. Sounds like it still needs some buffs. Otherwise, why not play power hammer SpB which a) breaks 40k DPS, b) brings way more CC, and c) is more survivable?

Actually because of the changes to breaching strike pSB is under 40k as well, although that is likely unintended.

[MikeOck.7461]

Legend says 1 guy on the balance team got rekt by a berserker in pvp and now we have this change

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, MikeOck.7461 said:

Legend says 1 guy on the balance team got rekt by a berserker in pvp and now we have this change

I'm SORRY omg

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261