Commanders who Private Squad

[Veeber.3192]

As someone who has learnt never to join squads you can follow or not follow closed tag;, fight in the blob or on the sidelines, but you will learn that sometimes you last longer or play better not being in a squad if you get your positioning right.

Not being in a squad and just following isn't inherently bad just as joining isn't inherently good.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, LCL.6259 said:

When I ask questions in fractal I get answers. When I ask basic questions in team chat I get memed on and kitten. Why would anyone continue to ask questions, rather than just trying to fall in with a group? "Separating the wheat from the chaff" is exactly what I'm talking about. There seems to be a direct dissonance between this philosophy and the actual results it produces, as opposed to the perceived results.

In a fractal, you are 20% of the party. It is very unpleasant to have 1/5 of your team not know what they're doing, so it is vital to ensure they do. Most people don't like to carry dead weight. The other alternative would be to boot that person, which would waste a lot of time to find another person. So in a sense, sure, in WvW, a single player is simply more expendable. This is just people being practical.

 

However, I'm not sure what level of fractal you are at, or how often you do them, because if you think that every fractal group's going to accept people with open arms, you are sorely mistaken. There are plenty of groups with very high title/KP requirements, and that even trickles down to faceroll content like Strike Missions where the titles are completely unnecessary.

Also even if you should  join some random run in t4, then it is expected you know what you're doing by that point. If you don't, you should be doing t1/t2s where nobody cares and go learn there.

Granted, one is more likely to have a better time in pve content because there's more people and most of it is really easy anyways so it's easy to teach someone on the fly.

And this is the failure in your comparison. Trying to join anyone's exclusive squad is no different from trying to join a speedrun group. If you see a bunch of random people in WvW, and ask them in say chat if you want to form a party or not, the results are going to be much more similar to finding pick up groups in fractals.

And as Chaba said, unlike in PvE instances, we have no way of removing underperforming players, so the best way to deal with people you don't want to play is just to have them not  in your squad.

Most of the time it doesn't matter. Squads have so much heals that you can often get some just by being on top of them, even when not in squad.

No group is able to position and cycle buffs and heals so perfectly they never overflow outside.

Of course, none of this justifies trolling new players. But that may be a problem specific to your community. On my server, that is not too commonplace, but I usually have my way of getting rid of said trolls.

Edited June 19, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, LCL.6259 said:

I never blamed it on the community, you are misinterpreting what I said. The fault is with the game itself but you have a self perpetuating cycle that the community seems to pretend they play no part in

Perhaps, but you went on to compare WvW to fractals and raids where "commanders" and party members have far more discretion over the players around them than any WvW commander.
 

2 hours ago, LCL.6259 said:

I didn't ask the community to point out everyone's little mistakes, it's just a difference that I'm calling attention to

Now you're the one twisting words.  You wanted to call out a difference while unironically ignoring THE difference between game modes: player ability to pick and chose teammates.

 

2 hours ago, LCL.6259 said:

There are friendly people in the mode, just like in the rest of the game but they are drowned out by massive clownery and jaded attitudes.

So?  If someone lets every little thing in a public chat bother them to the point where they quit, that's on them.  No one else has control over another's reactions or what they chose to focus on.  You find similarities in toxicity, clownery, and jaded attitudes in fractals and raids too and it's perhaps worse because they do have far more control over teammates than in WvW.  The toxic elitists of raids!  They always demanding kill proof before you can join!  They get mad if you aren't doing top DPS!  Yadda, yadda, yadda.  It's not up to the game nor anyone else in a community to solve someone's personal reactions to drama for them and it's unfair of you to suggest otherwise.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[ArchonWing.9480]

11 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

ou find similarities in toxicity, clownery, and jaded attitudes in fractals and raids too and it's perhaps worse because they do have far more control over teammates than in WvW. 

Don't forget Open World too.

A while back, there was a legendary collection that required an event failure in Cursed Shore because some genius at Anet thought that would never lead to player conflict. It did.

There was some incredibly disgusting behavior. I saw veterans clad in tons of blinding legendaries  yell at new players for daring to do the events on the map. New players are doing that for starting out their character and farming gold to buy their first exotic set probably, yet you see these rich players on probably their 10th legendary angry that these players are inconveniencing them, calling them names. One of them even tried to kidnap people the turtle mount riding function but fortunately, they kidnapped me so I led them on for a bit and used the Aurene skill to leave. Silly goose.

It was just pathetic. It was literally millionares stealing from the poor. One of them even told them that their Gw2efficiency account value was worth more than them all combined. Of course, they never told me when I asked them how much they were worth.

Let's not pretend a certain type of player is morally superior, because when given the opportunity, they will most certainly eat each other.

The real reason that the Gw2 community is relatively peaceful is because Anet has removed potential for conflict (no fighting over gathering nodes for example) and introduced mechanics where you should be glad to see another players such as buffs that affect nearby people. It's not perfect, but the best way to stop toxicity is to never allow it to happen in the first place.

Edited June 19, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

3 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

the best way to stop toxicity is to never allow it to happen in the first place.

I wouldn't say "stop" toxicity.  I agree that game design can do a lot to lessen the incidence of it like the example with gathering nodes that you pointed out.  People will still always find something to take issue with.

Open World is similar to WvW in that you can't kick others off a map.  Ugh.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Just now, Chaba.5410 said:

I wouldn't say "stop" toxicity.  I agree that game design can do a lot to lessen the incidence of it like the example with gathering nodes that you pointed out.  People will still always find something to take issue with.

Well, sure, people can get mad at anything but enough to effectively make it irrelevant for the average person. I think a developer can take reasonable steps, while at the same time removing unreasonable people.

It is significantly harder when there are differing goals in WvW; not everyone has the same idea of success.

4 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Open World is similar to WvW in that you can't kick others off a map.  Ugh.

Well that's usually not necessary but for the most part it ensures all players have equal access to the map. Though not being at the whims of people that can kick you really does help a lot of players.

[LCL.6259]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Perhaps, but you went on to compare WvW to fractals and raids where "commanders" and party members have far more discretion over the players around them than any WvW commander.
 

Now you're the one twisting words.  You wanted to call out a difference while unironically ignoring THE difference between game modes: player ability to pick and chose teammates.

 

So?  If someone lets every little thing in a public chat bother them to the point where they quit, that's on them.  No one else has control over another's reactions or what they chose to focus on.  You find similarities in toxicity, clownery, and jaded attitudes in fractals and raids too and it's perhaps worse because they do have far more control over teammates than in WvW.  The toxic elitists of raids!  They always demanding kill proof before you can join!  They get mad if you aren't doing top DPS!  Yadda, yadda, yadda.  It's not up to the game nor anyone else in a community to solve someone's personal reactions to drama for them and it's unfair of you to suggest otherwise.

Picking and choosing teammates is the entire topic of the thread, so I don't see how that tracks. Obviously you can't manage your entire server like a fantasy football team. IDK what that has to do with just not being an kitten when people ask for help. When I ask for help in any other game mode it is given freely, even in PvP which has arguably more reasons to be toxic, and even less control over your teammates. 

It's less about letting "every little thing" bother you, and more about feeling like you aren't making any headway in the initial reward track of the mode. There is no natural onboarding of players, that's my entire point. Like you point out, fractals have low tiers, PvP has ranks, these things segregate players and give them a chance to figure things out at a normal pace. WvW throws you into a clusterkitten with no mount, and no natural progression for learning the game. OP is obviously rightfully confused. Is it fair of him to expect to be invited into every little group with open arms? No it's not, and private tags aren't "scum" for choosing to play that way. On the other hand, I don't feel like there is a very good faith attempt from you or Dawdle here to understand the perspective of a new WvW player. 

Having one group of elitists call you out in raid is a lot different than having literally your entire server clown you at once for asking a very normal question. If it's unfair of me to consider that kitten behavior, then I guess I'm unfair. 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by LCL.6259

[Chaba.5410]

4 minutes ago, LCL.6259 said:

Having one group of elitists call you out in raid is a lot different than having literally your entire server clown you at once for asking a very normal question.

Literally not your entire server.  I don't know why you keep trying to generalize your personal experience to the WvW community.  The WvW community is diverse and everyone plays for different reasons.  As Dawdler wrote originally, if someone really wants to participate, they have to put in the effort and the spend time.

Also, I never said anything about segregation of new and vet players.

[LCL.6259]

Just now, Chaba.5410 said:

Literally not your entire server.  I don't know why you keep trying to generalize your personal experience to the WvW community.  The WvW community is diverse and everyone plays for different reasons.  As Dawdler wrote originally, if someone really wants to participate, they have to put in the effort and the spend time.

Also, I never said anything about segregation of new and vet players.

I knew you would be pedantic about the way I worded this instead of addressing literally anything else I said. IN FRONT OF your entire server, does that feel better for you? I have acknowledge over and over again that this is not a reflection of everyone who plays WvW. Can we not fixate on one hyperbolic detail please? This is what I mean about good faith. 

[Chaba.5410]

22 minutes ago, LCL.6259 said:

I knew you would be pedantic about the way I worded this instead of addressing literally anything else I said. IN FRONT OF your entire server, does that feel better for you? I have acknowledge over and over again that this is not a reflection of everyone who plays WvW. Can we not fixate on one hyperbolic detail please? This is what I mean about good faith. 

You acknowledged it and then went right back to generalizing.  Disingenuous.  Good faith also includes not ascribing something I never said to me.

You wrote that WvW is radio silence outside of discord when you compared it to fractals and raids implying that no one helps.  Do you want to retract that statement now?


 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[LCL.6259]

28 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You acknowledged it and then went right back to generalizing.  Disingenuous.  Good faith also includes not ascribing something I never said to me.

You wrote that WvW is radio silence outside of discord when you compared it to fractals and raids implying that no one helps.  Do you want to retract that statement now?


 

This has just devolved into pedantry and gotcha. Last thing I'm going to bother saying.

One was obviously an emotional statement, the other is clearly not. Feel free to interpret them however you desire, I no longer care. Radio silence other than sussus amogus, trolling, and calling out stonemist 1000 times. 

You can point out where I shoved words into your mouth, or you can just make vague statements and focus on a gotcha moment that does nothing to clarify anything for anyone. It will be an easy dub for you because there isn't going to be a response. 

 

Quote

Also, I never said anything about segregation of new and vet players.

You're right--I DID. It's like you're ignoring the entire reason I even brought it up and focusing on personal issues. Giving people a beginner starting point is not a bad thing. The natural segregation between fractal tiers is not a bad thing. These are by design. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by LCL.6259

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, LCL.6259 said:

Like you point out, fractals have low tiers, PvP has ranks, these things segregate players and give them a chance to figure things out at a normal pace

I never pointed this out.

[LCL.6259]

1 minute ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I never pointed this out.

You're right, it was Archon. That was my mistake. You win since that's obviously what this entire exchange was about. 

Idk why it's so much to admit the mode is inherently confusing compared to others. Oh well. Have a nice day. 

[Chaba.5410]

46 minutes ago, LCL.6259 said:

This has just devolved into pedantry and gotcha. Last thing I'm going to bother saying.

One was obviously an emotional statement, the other is clearly not. Feel free to interpret them however you desire, I no longer care. Radio silence other than sussus amogus, trolling, and calling out stonemist 1000 times. 

You can point out where I shoved words into your mouth, or you can just make vague statements and focus on a gotcha moment that does nothing to clarify anything for anyone. It will be an easy dub for you because there isn't going to be a response. 

Good.  You're done.  You decided that your personal and limited experience with WvW, fractals and raids proves something.  Can't have a good discussion with someone who makes blanket statements about dead public squads, on-boarding, chats, vets and new players.

The amount of effort you personally put into the game mode in spite of anything or anyone else is what you will get out of it.  If that's gatekeeping by vets, LOL....

Edited June 20, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Jitters.9401]

Eh...

I don't care if tags are private. If I feel like following a group I will, and if I don't feel like it, I won't. Most times I could care less.

When I do and the group goes for the stealth, I run a different path so I do not expose them and hopefully the enemy thinks I am the type of idiot who follows a stealth bomb even when not stealthed. 

[Thomas.2564]

If ur just there for the rewards, why dos joining the squad matter anyway. 

If the tag is visible but u cant join. Its probably a guy who doesnt want ppl in the squad with roaming builds, or ppl who wont join discord. Which i can fully understand.

But if its just a ktrain com, who's just there to ppt. Then joining the squad wont really change much.

[Esufer.8762]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:00 PM, Riba.3271 said:

 You don't go swimming with a crocodile without a harpoon gun.

As a revenant I can only equip spears and tridents underwater

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 hours ago, Thomas.2564 said:

If ur just there for the rewards, why dos joining the squad matter anyway. 

If the tag is visible but u cant join. Its probably a guy who doesnt want ppl in the squad with roaming builds, or ppl who wont join discord. Which i can fully understand.

But if its just a ktrain com, who's just there to ppt. Then joining the squad wont really change much.

It's because they make no effort to understand the game mode, or even the game itself.

If they did, they would realize that joining a squad and being placed in "misc party no.1"  would have practically no impact in their combat ability.

If they did, they would realize the minimum to maintain participation requires nowhere near optimal combat ability. More like recapturing something every 10 minutes. You do not need a squad to take sentries, or just meet up with the tag when they reach a camp or a tower. There is no need to be in the squad.

If they did, they would not just read the first 12 words of this post and immediately think of an angry reply.

The only other benefits of being in a squad is seeing in squad messages but as most commanders would prefer voice, the real option is just that or accept that you aren't getting that far anyways.

Finally, they express a mindset that can only end in failure. The expectation that any other player has some duty to "understand" them is simply not true.  Even if it were true, one cannot change the behavior of strangers by willing it.

When one posts a complaint of any kind, do not preface with weak sauce like "I know my opinion is unpopular" or the Reddit version "I know I'll be downvoted". Why? The popularity of your opinion is irrelevant to its validity. There's only 2 possibilities on the reaction such a sentence would generate:

1.) The person stating the opinion doesn't even believe in their own opinion. When said opinion is built upon faulty evidence already, then why would anyone believe it?

2.) The person believes they have uncovered a hidden truth that the ignorant masses need to know about. [s]lololololol[/s] Sorry, get in line. Or at least get the facts better before you try.

Either way, one is bound to alienate their audience nearly immediately, and then will resort to defensive mechanisms like people are judging them or being mean or some other deflection that further weakens their point. Failure is the only option at this point.

At the end of the day, what I think, whether win or lose, or whether anyone thinks this ArchonWing dude is full of kitten or not, I'll be playing the game as I want. And if people can ignore what I say and do the same, then we're good. In about 3 hours I'll be on the game and whatever happened here is moot.

Edited June 20, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480