ele has too much projectile denial

[Eddie.9143]

too many mag auras combined with swirling winds, earth shield, etc.

 

needs to be tuned down before the 27th quickness buff or it's literally going to be impossible to beat cata as anything ranged.

[Raven Wings.8379]

Cata is the real deal

[Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259]

Have you literally tried using unblockable projectiles? 

[SevlisBavles.3059]

They should distinguish between physical projectiles and magical projectiles. Bow attacks from Ranger, Warrior, Thief etc. get reflected, but magical attacks from Mesmer, Elementalist and such don't.

inb4 Ranger mains spamming Confused on this post.

Edited June 18, 2023 by SevlisBavles.3059

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

18 minutes ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

They should distinguish between physical projectiles and magical projectiles. Bow attacks from Ranger, Warrior, Thief etc. get reflected, but magical attacks from Mesmer, Elementalist and such don't.

inb4 Rangers spamming Confused on this post.

Not gonna happen.
In GW2 condition damage function as magic damage.

[Morwath.9817]

I think its intentinal to keep ranged spike damage in check, forcing more melee fighting over CS:GO gameplay.

[Sovarica.4368]

Some of the high tier eles have the process mastered with all that invuln then projectile block/blinding and fast escapes, very annoying to deal with it feels like rng when you finally get some hits in.

[Eddie.9143]

7 hours ago, Sovarica.4368 said:

Some of the high tier eles have the process mastered with all that invuln then projectile block/blinding and fast escapes, very annoying to deal with it feels like rng when you finally get some hits in.

In the few moments they're vulnerable they use terrain, line of sight, or superspeed away.

[Shush in NA.9182]

Ele has too much of everything tho... Good that you know where to start the correct complains. 

[Eddie.9143]

Swirling winds with air traited is a 6 second projectile denial on a 24 second cooldown, with earth shield, blinds, gale, daze, chill, mag aura, obsidian earth, arcane shield, fortified earth, then you add terrain and line of sight and there's really no kill window 1v1

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, CK rimeiller.5014 said:

Ele has too much of everything tho... Good that you know where to start the correct complains. 

This.

Cata and tempest are completely broken right now, but projectile denial is only part of the issue.  Their number of defenses (projectile denial, blocks, invulns, blinds, evades) combined with loads of hard and soft CC as well as excellent dmg output is over the top.

[Flowki.7194]

16 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

This.

Cata and tempest are completely broken right now, but projectile denial is only part of the issue.  Their number of defenses (projectile denial, blocks, invulns, blinds, evades) combined with loads of hard and soft CC as well as excellent dmg output is over the top.

Loads of hard/soft CC? where? and compared to what benchmark?

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:28 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

too many mag auras combined with swirling winds, earth shield, etc.

 

needs to be tuned down before the 27th quickness buff or it's literally going to be impossible to beat cata as anything ranged.

It sounds like you have counted up all the potential reflects ele has as a class, and then applied it to a single imaginary ranger boogyman, all seing, all reflecting ele-god spec.

 

Tempest has 4 auras on demand. Earth staff 3 (if using focus, that aura does not apply to team mates), overload (takes 8 seconds if not in earth to access this aura, reducing any healig to team mates), after shock and earth shield. Thing is, projectiles are not the only thing in the game, so unless the enemy team is full of ranged classes, and it does happen at times, then there is no reason to take a 4th reflect in any other setting, as it just gimpes your own survival/support utility. 3 reflects, for a total of 12 seconds = 104 seconds CD (assuming trait or its more). For 92 seconds every 104, you can pew pew from 1200. That does not even consider unblockables. If the tempest is on d/f, he also has swirling winds, but again, if the enemy team has 1 or 0 physical ranged classes (that happens often) then all reflect utility is essentially wasted/innificiant utility vs the enemy team. You are only looking at this as a ranger, and not the fact that the game has a kitten tonn of melee dps, magic ranged, and condi. Further more, sitting back at 1200, with stealth, super speed, roots and stuns.. is not hard. Don't act like sitting there pew pewing your dps combo is hard. I give more credit to any melee class, becuase while doing their dps, they are also in they are forced to navigate all the AOE spam, and its much harder to ''get out'' when it goes wrong.

 

Some of the more popular weaver/cata dps setups use focus. The only other access they have for reflect is earth shield. Not all people run earth shield, so swirling wind is going to be the only consistant projectile utility you will see, and it doesn't reflect. The classes can ofc combo into earth for a reflect shield, but that will only be 1 aura in a typical short skirmish. Going into earth from another stance may also put a dps stance on a 10 second CD, while earth stance does not do crazy burst, or even decent sustained damage (unless hard stacknig bleed condi, and its still bad dmg comapred to real condi dmg).

 

Earth shield itself is strong, but highly over estimated by players. It takes time to use, and if the ranger is ofc at range.. you have 0 ranged presense in earth shield (assuming the ele is using scepter). So essentailly you have to drop the shield, a 60 second CD, just to get a 4 second aura. The ele could stay in shield and go immune with fortifiy, but why? the ele can use it to wait for important CDs, but so can the ranged class, who may also use that time to increase range to 1200 (where applicable).

 

Dagger offhand has 0 ranged utility. I have played dagger offhand on a number of builds across all specs, including core. I can tell you 100% you feel not having ranged utility on demand. The amount of dmg a ranged class can do before I get onto earth shield is no joke. You can be more reactive if using dagger main, as there are a few short evades, but they are short, and dagger main has extremely limited range (obviously a downside vs ranged classes).

 

Im not saying the reflect aura is weak, or that it takes any more braincelss to use than standing at 1200 pew pewing. When I see a team that is dominated by ranged classes I go tempest right away, becuase I can essentially hard counter that line up, and that it will be a horrible game otherwise, tamed+deadeye+engi are some of the most toxic games. An mmorg with no class that can keep ranged classes in check is a horrible game, just like any FPS that had no counter to snipers. In WOW, thats why most people hated the larger maps, becuase hunters where untouchable.. and I know becuase I use to play one 40+ kills to 0 deaths every match. Thats not to show off, but simply to point out how rediculess ranged classes can get.

 

Im not a bias player though. I personally think auras should be applied to team mates single target (obviosuly would require a CD rewerk, more charges or something). That way it takes more skill, and you can play games of target switch countering. However, that would only work if all AOE dmg and utility is adressed, and thats unlikely. If dps classes have access to aoe dmg, support should ofc have access to aoe support. But this is the game as it is.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Loads of hard/soft CC? where?

 bla bla bla Tempest has 4 auras on demand bla bla bla

alot of bla bla about how much auras ele is supposed to have.

Im not a bias player though

How many times do we need to teach you this lesson old man! 👴 🧽

Just because you cant manage to squeeze out more, it doenst mean that ele just has 4 auras XD

If you want, i can show you how i can upkeep a total of 32 seconds of complete projectileimmunity.

Not everyone is a silver! remember.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Flowki.7194]

8 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

How many times do i need to teach you this lesson old man!

Just because you cant manage to squeeze out more, it doenst mean that ele just has 4 auras XD

If you want, i can show you how i can upkeep a total of 32 seconds of complete projectileimmunity, just with a Earthshield and focus on Tempest.

Not everyone is a silver XD

 

At no point did I say ele only has 4 auras. Don't hijack what I am saying just to brag about your reflect chains, which has clear in-game limitations and you know it. You could chain reflects almost indefinately.. when you or your team mates are not being focused by multiple dmg types.

 

This is like a condi team complaining they are losing because the enemy team broaght along good condi clense. Like.. cmon.

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Tempest has 4 auras on demand.

well...

 

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

hen there is no reason to take a 4th reflect in any other setting, as it just gimpes your own survival/support utility. 3 reflects, for a total of 12 seconds = 104 seconds CD

your doing alot of wonky maths here.... and all of them are just plain stupid and wrong.

Maybe one day you will understand whats wrong about this.

Lets have a quiz: Is it

a) the ammount of reflects is just wrong... because even with jsut the Earthshield and Staff you have 4, and when running focus you have 5.

or b) your calculating the cooldowns wrong

or c) both.

have a guess.

 

But its fine buddy... your obviously pretty new... we´ve all been there.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Flowki.7194]

Just now, Sahne.6950 said:

well...

 

your doing alot of wonky maths here.... and all of them are just plain stupid and wrong. Maybe one day you will understand whats wrong about this.

Those are the projectile abilites at hand, combos and swirling wind are another thing. I like the fact all you can do to get to me is take things out of context.

[Sahne.6950]

i am literally quoting you buddy.

Take a close look at how you calculated the cooldowns..... maybe your doing it wrong.... think about it!

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Flowki.7194]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i am literally quoting you buddy.

Take a close look at how you calculated the cooldowns..... maybe your doing it wrong.... think about it!

Maybe i am not a bully....  just maybe.

A mistake in the times fair enough, sorry.

 

I was more interested in the rest of the things you were saying.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

A mistake in the times fair enough, sorry.

 

I was more interested in the rest of the things you were saying.

okey okey....  

Just to give you an example of how your posts look to someone that knows ele well: 

"for a total of 12 seconds = 104 seconds CD "    You did a huge math, and it ended in this.

Now let me explain whats wrong about this.

Earthshield, gives you TWO auras, because you can pick it up in the beginning use the 3, drop it, do the other reflects and after 12 seconds pick it up again and do the second aura. Then you have swirlingwinds, Earth4, and you have Earthoverload. That alone is 5 projectile hates. (dont even try to tell me swirlindwinds is not projectilehate.)

When your done with your combo, swirlingwinds will be ready again for example and you can do it again. Because contradictonary how you mathed it out... the cooldowns dont add up and end in a 104 Second cooldown.... they count down individually. So when you start with swirling winds for example, it will be ready again even before the other auras have ran out, and so will other skills.

Its at a point, where you can upkeep 30+ seconds.

but your trying to tell us ele has 12 seconds reflect and then 104 seconds cooldown... which is wrong on so many levels.

I firmly believe you havent yet discoverd how strong Ele truely is. Which is completly okay... but when your throwing around "made up maths"... expect people to point out whats wrong about it.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Flowki.7194]

17 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

okey okey....  

Just to give you an example of how your posts look to someone that knows ele well: 

"for a total of 12 seconds = 104 seconds CD "    You did a huge math, and it ended in this.

Now let me explain whats wrong about this.

Earthshield, gives you TWO auras, because you can pick it up in the beginning use the 3, drop it, do the other reflects and after 12 seconds pick it up again and do the second aura. Then you have swirlingwinds, Earth4, and you have Earthoverload. That alone if 5 projectile hates. (dont even try totell me swirlindwinds is not projectilehate.)

When your done with your combo, swirlingwinds will be ready again for example and you can do it again. Because contradictonary how you mathed it out... the cooldowns dont add up and end in a 104 Second cooldown.... they count down individually. So when you start with swirling winds for example, it will be ready again even before the other auras have ran out.

But you dont yet understand everything that is possible with elementalist, because you are obviously new. 

You dont have yet fully grasped whats possible and what not.

Its at a point, where you can upkeep 30+ seconds.

but your trying to tell us ele has 12 seconds reflect and then 102 seconds cooldown... which is wrong on so many levels.

I firmly believe you havent yet discoverd how strong Ele truely is.

I know how this all works, but its theory craft. In ranked games battles move (away from your shield), somebody may pick up your shield, etc etc. Swirling wind falls to this same issue, its not a reflect first of all (which is a very notable difference), and its a fixed aoe. That may not be an issue in the highest level, but I know full well in lower elos that friendlys run out of winds regularly, chasing kills, oblivious of its presense, etc etc. Focus earth only applies to the temepest, so it is situational to target.

 

I am saying the ele has a set amount of instant reflects for the team, and its true. You are talking about the perfect theory craft of chains, where you are never stunned, pressured, battles never move, and all allies are always within aura range. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

You really think this is just theorycraft and not applicable in a game?

In a real game, the effective reflect uptime will be almost permanent when the Tempest knows what hes doing.

Because your not blowing them one after another like a donkey, as if your trying to impress a Benchmark golem.

You use them as soon as someone switches to a ranged weapon for example, to render this person completly useless for 9 seconds, and to force him to swap to meele again, where you then wait with shockaura ;).

A good Tempest in the enemy team makes the game feel like a trafficjam.

but its fine... we are just theorycrafting. And none of this is possible in a real game. /sarcasm

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Flowki.7194]

27 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

If you really think this is just theorycraft and not applicable in a game, you are actually a silver.

In a real game, the effective uptime will be even higher.

Because your not blowing them one after another like a donkey, but you use them as soon as someone switches to a ranged weapon for example, to render this person completly useless for 9 seconds, and to force him to swap to meele again, where you then wait with shockaura ;).

Or you activate them when you see a ranged burst coming.

Or you upkeep them for the first 20 seconds during the first midfight. yada yada

There is so many situations where you can completly nullify any ranged build for a extended ammount of time, and if needed up to 30+ seconds.

but its fine... we are just theorycrafting. /sarcasm

How are you even playing Supporttempest, when you think this is just theorycrafting?! What are you doing with your time XD ^That^ up there, is literally your only job. (and spamming Rez)

But i will stop here, you obviously are stuck in your ways. Good luck with your 104 seconds of cooldown.

Now you are moving the goal posts. You said you can chain reflects as if its a regular thing, I never said that it wasn't possible (I can do it but Ive never found it to be required, so I don't even consider it), and I have no doubt a decent tempest would do that around a physical ranged heavy team, with team mates who know how to utilise the support, but how often is that?

 

I should not have said theorycraft, I do take that back, but what you are talking about is highly situational. Dedicating that much time into chaining projectile denial, when there is also a lot of power melee, magic ranged, and condi on the avg enemy team is just not going to work, or simply will not be optimal just to counter 1 ranged class. For example I can chain all auras together, indefinately, to give -40% dmg to anybody in range, but why? its better to time the specific auras for specific dmg type burst spikes.

 

I am in low elo, never got out of gold 1. Sure, my opinion counts for less, but im going to give my opinion from playing tempest, and from playing against good tempests. Ive never seen them perma chaining reflects. Its more so a double chain, while the ranged class gets destroyed. I always mark ranged classes to kill, becuase despite having many reflects, I find them the biggest threat to the team over all. Its much easier for a ranged class to kill a team mate who gets out of support range. A lot of melee take longer to close the gap.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

36 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You said you can chain reflects, I never said that wasn't possible

uhm.... Just stick true to what you said please. Just 10 minutes ago you tried telling us, that you have 3 reflects every 1,5 minutes.

Its totally okay to be wrong sometimes, no biggie. But dont act like you knew all along or you never said anything like that.

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

3 reflects, for a total of 12 seconds = 104 seconds CD (assuming trait or its more). For 92 seconds every 104, you can pew pew from 1200

 

I am not moving any goalpost here. But i want to show you, that alot of things your saying are just plain wrong or ooze "I am currently Silver 3 but have a very strong opinion on alot of topics that i dont really understand"

Please please please be a bit more cautious with what your saying. And keep in mind, that you are playing  at the bottom half of skillevel. Things that you have never ever seen... are pretty common once you reach plat and above.

Just a bit of thinking before you post an essay would be nice. Ill leave it at that.

 

 

The sad truth here is, that Ele has WAYYYYYYYY more projectile denial compared to any other class. and its not even close. (Except Ventari rev, but who even plays that :D)

The projectiledenial + a huge ammount of blocks/invulns and a littlebit of superspeed ontop, is also why FACata has dominated the meta for several months.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[semak.7481]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

well...

 

your doing alot of wonky maths here.... and all of them are just plain stupid and wrong.

Maybe one day you will understand whats wrong about this.

Lets have a quiz: Is it

a) the ammount of reflects is just wrong... because even with jsut the Earthshield and Staff you have 4, and when running focus you have 5.

or b) your calculating the cooldowns wrong

or c) both.

have a guess.

 

But its fine buddy... your obviously pretty new... we´ve all been there.

He was silver at school as well, sadge