Berserker, fury generation and "if hits" (PvP)

[Zekent.3652]

Hello,

about fury generation on warrior;

Bladesworn has: For Great Justice and Flow Stabilizer.

Core warrior has: GS F1, if doesn't hits, it's out.

Spellbreaker has: GS F1, same as core, if doesn't hits, it's out.

Berserker has: ... nothing, literally removed from Arc Divider, and if you wanna generate some fury with the Arcing Slice version, you're out of adrenal and if fails to hit, you're out twice.

Apart from For Great Justice and Flow Stabilizer, warrior still has the "on hit" tradeoff to generate some fury, gets its fury generation removed from Arc Divider, while other classes don't, and some classes/specs generates fury for free and some gets even MORE crit chance than usual without tradeoffs or "on hit" condition.

If  you're gonna make Arc Divider 1 hit, you better take its fury back and make it unblockable to compensate with this lack of multiple hits in a clownfiesta of block, berserker still needs more improvements to be great again, let people know that the big red/orange aura guy has unblockable bursts (F1), this would help a LOT to this spec getting a better chance against block spam abusers.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[Zekent.3652]

Didn't mention the fury generation from tactics WH trait because it's rarely used.

or Axe Cyclone because it's just 2 depressing seconds.

or Arms because well... it's Arms.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I use Rune of the Pack together with Signet of Rage.

Pack is 8s every 30s.

Rage is soon 25s every 40s.

Add the 15% Boon Duration and you get perma uptime.

I currently still use Banner of Disc. to bridge the gap (and provide perma Fury to people around me) but that wont be needed anymore soon.

Rune of Fireworks also is quite nice with 6s of Fury every 20s. 

6.9 seconds if you add the Boon Duration.

Also nice if you dont run Disc with the 25% Movement Speed.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

There are 11 ways to gain Fury on Core including rune options, one of these is from Arcing Slice, 13 ways as a Bladesworn, 11 ways as a Spellbreaker, and 12 ways as a Berserker. Please tell me why 11-13 ways of gaining Fury is not enough.

[Zekent.3652]

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There are 11 ways to gain Fury on Core including rune options, one of these is from Arcing Slice, 13 ways as a Bladesworn, 11 ways as a Spellbreaker, and 12 ways as a Berserker. Please tell me why 11-13 ways of gaining Fury is not enough.

Would you pick signet of rage over headbutt for a non-glasscanon berserker build?

Or For Great Justice over EP, SiO or Bullscharge?

Talking about fury on viable berserker builds, glass canon berserker builds with arms are fine and has no fury problems, but still runs out of gas really fast and its just a free candy for thieves and more viable builds.

Berserker just needs its fury back for Arc Divider, i'll mever undersand why they removed the fury generatiom from it.

And ofc, it's from a pvp pov, my bad, i'll change the tittle.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There are 11 ways to gain Fury on Core including rune options, one of these is from Arcing Slice, 13 ways as a Bladesworn, 11 ways as a Spellbreaker, and 12 ways as a Berserker. Please tell me why 11-13 ways of gaining Fury is not enough.

Zizekent is right.

Look through the list of skills applicable to a zerker build that would want fury, and ask yourself if the majority of them would fit in a power oriented zerker build. Think about it. What in that pile is suitable for dps?

Arcing slice uses your resource to access berserk, which makes you choose between it and burst damage.  Signet of rage removes access to headbutt. Wild blow is wild blow. 

If you want to take arms, what are you replacing with it? Discipline? No fast hands, dps loss. Strength? Dps loss. Defense? Dps loss because now you need to juggle blind and weakness.

All of the ways you can access fury on power zerker are placed in such a way that accessing them in a build requires such a damage or utility loss that they're often not worth taking.  Its just a crit modifier, why would you lose damage delivery for a chance at better damage delivery?

Placing in on arc divider would be nice. Especially since they keep nerfing its damage in 2023.

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Would you pick signet of rage over headbutt for a non-glasscanon berserker build?

Or For Great Justice over EP, SiO or Bullscharge?

Talking about fury on viable berserker builds, glass canon berserker builds with arms are fine and has no fury problems, but still runs out of gas really fast and its just a free candy for thieves and more viable builds.

Berserker just needs its fury back for Arc Divider, i'll mever undersand why they removed the fury generatiom from it.

And ofc, it's from a pvp pov, my bad, i'll change the tittle.

I typically take Bulls, FGJ, and SiO on most of my builds unless I'm running a more tailored build. FGJ and MMR is kitten good endurance regeneration, and if you run PS and MM it's pretty good healing when your allies are nearby.

 

Changing the POV to PvP helps the discussion though, thanks for updating. As to Arms, well we've all been clamoring for CMC to update it for years now.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Zizekent is right.

Look through the list of skills applicable to a zerker build that would want fury, and ask yourself if the majority of them would fit in a power oriented zerker build. Think about it. What in that pile is suitable for dps?

Arcing slice uses your resource to access berserk, which makes you choose between it and burst damage.  Signet of rage removes access to headbutt. Wild blow is wild blow. 

If you want to take arms, what are you replacing with it? Discipline? No fast hands, dps loss. Strength? Dps loss. Defense? Dps loss because now you need to juggle blind and weakness.

All of the ways you can access fury on power zerker are placed in such a way that accessing them in a build requires such a damage or utility loss that they're often not worth taking.  Its just a crit modifier, why would you lose damage delivery for a chance at better damage delivery?

Placing in on arc divider would be nice. Especially since they keep nerfing its damage in 2023.

 

Changing the perspective to PvP truncates that list some sure. At the same time though there are choices to be made, a lot of the utility bars on the various sites are all defensive utilities. Take SiO, another defensive utility, and then either Wild Blow for memes or FGJ if the lack of fury is hurting you. Your best source of fury is sitting right there and it just so happens also helps your team's dps as well. Every time this topic comes up I point this out. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

In PvP, you usually need 2 stun breaks. Cleansing is also in high demand (no wonder that SIO is almost always taken since it fills both needs). Berserker also needs to generate lots of adrenaline so it can reliably enter berserk mode off CD; this usually translates into taking a rage skill (most of which suck) or signet or rage or signet of fury.  Many builds also need BC for the mobility and CC needed to lock down foes so that they can actually land damage.

In short, there's just a lot of needs that warrior has that need to be addressed by our utility slots because they can't be addressed adequately through traits or weapons.

I think this will be alleviated somewhat if rifle becomes a more viable weapon (and not just for meme builds). Having a strong ranged game makes BC less necessary because you don't need to stay on top of your enemy to land dmg. You could run EP, SiO, FGJ, and signet of rage on a rifle berserker build, for instance, and cover most of your bases.

I'd also like to see To The Limit! get a 20s CD so it would be more on par with Mending. That would be a natural heal skill for berserker and would help open up additional build options.

[felix.2386]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I typically take Bulls, FGJ, and SiO on most of my builds unless I'm running a more tailored build. FGJ and MMR is kitten good endurance regeneration, and if you run PS and MM it's pretty good healing when your allies are nearby.

 

Changing the POV to PvP helps the discussion though, thanks for updating. As to Arms, well we've all been clamoring for CMC to update it for years now.

whats ur build tho, if you run bull fgj sio set up, you basically has minimum adrenaline generation, unlike bladesworn which has built in flow gen, and spellbreaker also has and only need 10 adrenaline to cast anything.

berserker needs as much 30 adrenaline as posible, cuz else you are just a lesser core war.

berserker is extremely adrenaline demanding

Edited June 23, 2023 by felix.2386

[eXruina.4956]

10 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Berserker has: ... nothing, literally removed from Arc Divider, and if you wanna generate some fury with the Arcing Slice version, you're out of adrenal and if fails to hit, you're out twice.

i really wish they'd rework adrenaline, its very outdated and clunky,

if they made it a non decaying, regenerating resource it would really smooth warrior out.

 

or at the very least they could add it to a minor trait, maybe in discipline since its universally taken in all game modes.

 

signet of rage is also a great candidate but it locks the elite skill out, so it might take from build flexibility.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

whats ur build tho, if you run bull fgj sio set up, you basically has minimum adrenaline generation, unlike bladesworn which has built in flow gen, and spellbreaker also has and only need 10 adrenaline to cast anything.

That's the thing, I typically run those utilities independent of build. I swap around my weapons and traits fairly often out of boredom. I usually take an adrenaline boosting trait no matter what as well, or Headbutt while on Berserker.

 

[felix.2386]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That's the thing, I typically run those utilities independent of build. I swap around my weapons and traits fairly often out of boredom. I usually take an adrenaline boosting trait no matter what as well, or Headbutt while on Berserker.

 

doesnt matter then, because these utilities might work on spellbreaker or bladesworn, it will not work on berserker.

if you take FGJ that means you need MMR, strength has no adrenaline boosting trait

unless you swap out discipline, discipline has little adrenaline boost as well, but then you get no fast hand.

you gonna rely majority of your adrenaline boost on headbutt, if you miss it, you may as well just respawn at this point, you won't be getting fury from arcing slice either.

Edited June 23, 2023 by felix.2386

[felix.2386]

9 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

i really wish they'd rework adrenaline, its very outdated and clunky,

if they made it a non decaying, regenerating resource it would really smooth warrior out.

 

or at the very least they could add it to a minor trait, maybe in discipline since its universally taken in all game modes.

 

signet of rage is also a great candidate but it locks the elite skill out, so it might take from build flexibility.

yes, 80% of the warrior performance is now linked to burst skill and relies on you to constantly landing burst, damage boost, condition boost, health regen, main damage source, and the entire warrior performance is balanced around constant bursting,

it's not skill shot anymore.

the easy pro tip of beating a warrior, is simply only dodge the burst skill, anything else barely matter.

spellbreaker doesnt have adrenaline problem, because it only uses 10, and is able to easily gain 10 with some minimum adrenaline boost, but still hard demand discipline.

bladesworn has built in flow boost that rivals the effectiveness of SoM or berserker stance. and only has 1 skill that require flow.

it has really become huge design flaw for berserker and core war. especially for berserker, due to having 3 skills that consume the entire adrenaline bar(2 weapons and berserk) and core war has 2.

if you look at condi zerker build, it takes 2 rage skills, cleansing ire, discipline and signet of rage only to be able to use core burst and berserk freely. if you replace one rage skill, you will already a difference in adrenaline.

Edited June 23, 2023 by felix.2386

[Leo G.4501]

20 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

i really wish they'd rework adrenaline, its very outdated and clunky,

if they made it a non decaying, regenerating resource it would really smooth warrior out.

 

or at the very least they could add it to a minor trait, maybe in discipline since its universally taken in all game modes.

 

signet of rage is also a great candidate but it locks the elite skill out, so it might take from build flexibility.

Being used to it now, I think the way adrenaline functions now forces the Warrior to be more aggressive. Having passive adrenaline that more or less only decays when you're not in combat gives a more defensive/kiting feel to the profession.  Bladesworn can be played aggressive or defensive in this way since flow just need you to be in combat.

Now it does feel like a waste when losing adrenaline after dropping out of combat, like granting some benefit for losing that adrenaline, maybe speeding up cooldowns or maybe specifically elite skill cooldown by an amount of adrenaline lost.

Having various traits (like one in discipline like you mentioned) that alters how adrenaline decay works (or removing it for a unique effect) could be an interesting dynamic to discuss.

[Zekent.3652]

They listened yooooooo

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

54 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

They listened yooooooo

screenshot pls.

[Zekent.3652]

22 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

screenshot pls.

For some reason, they don't let you post images in the english forums, but Heat the Soul grants might and fury gen on burst.

[Lighter.5631]

17 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

For some reason, they don't let you post images in the english forums, but Heat the Soul grants might and fury gen on burst.

Expected, they always give might and fury on alternated quickness alac traits.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Lighter.5631