vares.8457 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Seems so. From what i see, those that do not have issues with this change are either those that do not have legendaries themselves, or those that do, but are so wealthy buying a new one outright is pocket money to them. That's why they don't think farming for an additional legendary is an issue. Because it won't be - to them (due to either not getting it anyway, or being so wealthy they would not know what to do with their money otherwise) It’s very easy to make lots of gold in the game 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAlive.1236 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, vares.8457 said: It’s very easy to make lots of gold in the game Nice try. Even wealthy players don't want to refarm kitten they were officially done with. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Seems so. From what i see, those that do not have issues with this change are either those that do not have legendaries themselves, or those that do, but are so wealthy buying a new one outright is pocket money to them. That's why they don't think farming for an additional legendary is an issue. Because it won't be - to them (due to either not getting it anyway, or being so wealthy they would not know what to do with their money otherwise) With that logic, shouldn't every future player who craft the 6th legendary rune get a free legendary relic then? Why should they get penalized for crafting them later? Their investment in crafting them is magically lesser than those who did it earlier? 3 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAlive.1236 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Kulvar.1239 said: With that logic, shouldn't every future player who craft the 6th legendary rune get a free legendary relic then? Why should they get penalized for crafting them later? Their investment in crafting them is magically lesser than those who did it earlier? If the price isn't adjusted to reflect a weaker item, sounds good. 2 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said: With that logic, shouldn't every future player who craft the 6th legendary rune get a free legendary relic then? Why should they get penalized for crafting them later? Their investment in crafting them is magically lesser than those who did it earlier? Well, yes. Either that, or the crafting price for Runes should get adjusted down so 6 runes + relic costs about the same as the current price of a Rune set. The first solution would also solve the case of players that already started crafting legendary runes but do not have a full set yet. Edited July 10, 2023 by Astralporing.1957 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, ItsAlive.1236 said: You gained functionality and infinite sets in the process. Exactly. In my example, people had lost tons gold-wise to the change (a lot more than for those 6-7 legendary runes' worth everyone is lamenting over), but in the long run they won a huge QoL. It was a good change, and this one will likely be, too. Therefore, whining over 6-7 legendary runes "being wasted" is laughable in my opinion. Edited July 10, 2023 by Ashantara.8731 3 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAlive.1236 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 30 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said: Exactly. In my example, people had lost tons gold-wise to the change (a lot more than for those 6-7 legendary runes' worth everyone is lamenting over), but in the long run they won a huge QoL. It was a good change, and this one will likely be, too. Therefore, whining over 6-7 legendary runes "being wasted" is laughable in my opinion. What's the function gain here? 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, ItsAlive.1236 said: What's the function gain here? Customization. As mentioned a million times before. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAlive.1236 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Ashantara.8731 said: Customization. As mentioned a million times before. No, that's what the new relics unlock. Your armor gained new functionality with armory. If your example lines up with exactly what I said, like you claim, then the runes are also gaining new functionality. So what is it? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: No. Current Legendary Rune: Select any rune New Legendary Rune: select any rule, and buy/farm the Relic The "no need to buy stuff" functionality clearly lost. Legendary runes were made to swap between runes without costs. Relics aren’t Runes so zero function was lost pretty simple, after SotO legendary runes will still be able to select any available Runes. 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 9 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said: I will repeat what someone already said here: Current changes are like taking flying away from skyscale, while leaving walking behind. And your telling runes are fine is like telling paying for skyscale to fly again is fine, cause springer can't fly. They aren’t taking functionality away, the only functionality legendary runes have is swapping them to another tune at will without having to repurchase runes or extractors.. that function isn’t lost. Your example doesn’t fit since you lose a function from said Skyscale. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoo.5079 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Let's see before the xpac release. 1) +25 power 2) +35 ferocity 3) +50 power 4) +65 ferocity 5) +100 power 6) +125 ferocity, +5% strike damage while over 90 health Xpac new build , restart game 1) +25 power 2) +35 ferocity 3) +50 power 4) +65 ferocity 5) +100 power 6) +125 ferocity So was the +5% strike damage while over 90 health removed from the game? Nope, it was just moved to that other slot. 1)+25 power 2) +35 ferocity 3) +50 power 4) +65 ferocity 5) +100 power 6) +125 ferocity a) +5% strike damage while over 90 health So players get a relic box to keep their current set bonus (I wonder if it is per equipment tab, per character or per account). But legendary runes used to be all the set bonuses, that is a lot of boxes 560578 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said: You remind me of those players who were crying rivers when the base game went F2P. You enjoyed the benefit of that legendary item since you made it. You'll keep enjoying its benefit after the update even if they're not as big as before. The loss is meaningless. You're owed nothing. ANet is only talking about doing a gesture for their own benefit. They don't want people crying rivers for thousands of pages that they got "scammed" with even more delirious entitled demands. This is a rather bad comparison of these situations. To make it similar, in this case the system would need to change in the way where people not having legendary runes get them cheaper or for free, while the legendary runes retain their current benefits. But that's not how the upcomming change works. Instead, people who didn't have that freedom of choice still don't have it, but people who did quite some "frontloaded" busy work to avoid further busy work now get the functionality of their legendary runes cut in order to put it into a new item which as a result introduces more busy work to get relics AND those people will now need to keep juggling the relics, probably right from their inventories. Again, something that legendary runes were made to avoid doing. If you wanted to compare that mechanical change of legendary runes, the base game would need to be cut in half (or whatever % you want to judge it as) and the long term players would need to re-buy that part of the core game. That is what's happening here, not some "you had it before others but now it's free/easier for other people so you mad brah". Some people seem to really miss what the actualy friction point here is. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: This is a rather bad comparison of these situations. To make it similar, in this case the system would need to change in the way where people not having legendary runes get them cheaper or for free, while the legendary runes retain their current benefits. But that's not how the upcomming change works. Instead, people who didn't have that freedom of choice still don't have it, but people who did quite some "frontloaded" busy work to avoid further busy work now get the functionality of their legendary runes cut in order to put it into a new item which as a result introduces more busy work to get relics AND those people will now need to keep juggling the relics, probably right from their inventories. Again, something that legendary runes were made to avoid doing. If you wanted to compare that mechanical change of legendary runes, the base game would need to be cut in half (or whatever % you want to judge it as) and the long term players would need to re-buy that part of the core game. That is what's happening here, not some "you had it before others but now it's free/easier for other people so you mad brah". Some people seem to really miss what the actualy friction point here is. Again the function of Legendary Runes isn’t changed since the only function was to freely swap between runes, that function remains because runes remain in the game… just because runes are getting rebalanced doesn’t mean legendary runes can’t swap between the different runes 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again the function of Legendary Runes isn’t changed since the only function was to freely swap between runes, that function remains because runes remain in the game… just because runes are getting rebalanced doesn’t mean legendary runes can’t swap between the different runes Again, the same way your car ""doesn't lose functionality"" after you take out its engine because you can still open and close its doors. Want to drive it? Tow it with another car! The same way we'll now need to keep rebuying and juggling whoknowshowmany relics in order to regain access to the 6th rune bonus effect. Also, again, you didn't respond to what you've quoted. Is it because you have no valid response to that or is there something hard to understand about what I wrote? It's not "runes getting rebalanced", it's "cutting part of the runes' functionality and offloading it into another item" -I already literally said that in the very post you've quoted. Edited July 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Again, the same way your car ""doesn't lose functionality"" after you take out its engine because you can still open and close its doors. Want to drive it? Tow it with another car! The same way we'll now need to keep rebuying and juggling whoknowshowmany relics in order to regain access to the 6th rune bonus effect. Also, again, you didn't respond to what you've quoted. Is it because you have no valid response to that or is there something hard to understand about what I wrote? It's not "runes getting rebalanced", it's "cutting part of the runes' functionality and offloading it into another item" -I already literally said that in the very post you've quoted. False analogy, you’re losing any functionality, the Legendary runes still allow freely swapping of rune, that’s the only Function Legendary runes have over superior runes. They function 100% the same as before SotO and after SotO. You clearly don’t understand what functionality means and it’s very clear. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: False analogy, you’re losing any functionality, the Legendary runes still allow freely swapping of rune, that’s the only Function Legendary runes have over superior runes. They function 100% the same as before SotO and after SotO. You clearly don’t understand what functionality means and it’s very clear. Whatever build you want to run with legendary runes, you pick runes freely and are ready to run it. Whatever build you want to run -not even any new one, but literally any build you currently have- after that change, you can't because you need to buy and juggle whoknowshowmany relics to do that. "didn't lose any functionality", right. And that's not really a false analogy, you're just missing what you're actually saying about the runes, for whatever reason. Just because you can still "chooe something on runes" -and that's the only thing you stick to in this thread- doesn't mean their functionality isn't nerfed. You still didn't respond to the last posts you've quoted, here they are for your convenience: 25 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: This is a rather bad comparison of these situations. To make it similar, in this case the system would need to change in the way where people not having legendary runes get them cheaper or for free, while the legendary runes retain their current benefits. But that's not how the upcomming change works. Instead, people who didn't have that freedom of choice still don't have it, but people who did quite some "frontloaded" busy work to avoid further busy work now get the functionality of their legendary runes cut in order to put it into a new item which as a result introduces more busy work to get relics AND those people will now need to keep juggling the relics, probably right from their inventories. Again, something that legendary runes were made to avoid doing. If you wanted to compare that mechanical change of legendary runes, the base game would need to be cut in half (or whatever % you want to judge it as) and the long term players would need to re-buy that part of the core game. That is what's happening here, not some "you had it before others but now it's free/easier for other people so you mad brah". Some people seem to really miss what the actualy friction point here is. 16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Again, the same way your car ""doesn't lose functionality"" after you take out its engine because you can still open and close its doors. Want to drive it? Tow it with another car! The same way we'll now need to keep rebuying and juggling whoknowshowmany relics in order to regain access to the 6th rune bonus effect. Also, again, you didn't respond to what you've quoted. Is it because you have no valid response to that or is there something hard to understand about what I wrote? It's not "runes getting rebalanced", it's "cutting part of the runes' functionality and offloading it into another item" -I already literally said that in the very post you've quoted. Let me know if there's anything you don't understand about them and I'll gladly explain. Until then, it seems I'm just getting baited. Edited July 10, 2023 by Sobx.1758 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Legendary runes were made to swap between runes without costs. Relics aren’t Runes so zero function was lost pretty simple, after SotO legendary runes will still be able to select any available Runes. A rose by any other name... That's a simple "justification" for loss of functionality by simple excuse of relabeling. Using the same justification they could have as well left only one stat point per rune and transferred everything else to relic. And by your reasoning there would be no loss of functionality either. 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said: A rose by any other name... That's a simple "justification" for loss of functionality by simple excuse of relabeling. Using the same justification they could have as well left only one stat point per rune and transferred everything else to relic. And by your reasoning there would be no loss of functionality either. They could but they didn’t. Legendary runes didn’t lose any functionality no matter how much you dislike the change 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoo.5079 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: Again the function of Legendary Runes isn’t changed since the only function was to freely swap between runes, that function remains because runes remain in the game… just because runes are getting rebalanced doesn’t mean legendary runes can’t swap between the different runes Runes are not being rebalanced, runes are being overstretched to a seventh slot. If anything runes/relic system is a power creep compared to just the current rune system. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Swoo.5079 said: Runes are not being rebalanced, runes are being overstretched to a seventh slot. If anything runes/relic system is a power creep compared to just the current rune system. Runes are being rebalanced, they changed what runes do that’s a rebalance… that’s like saying splitting a trait or changing a trait isn’t rebalancing… 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoo.5079 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: They could but they didn’t. Legendary runes didn’t lose any functionality no matter how much you dislike the change Legendary runes lost functionality because THEY ARE RUNES AND RUNES LOST A NON STAT SET BONUS that WILL STILL BE PART OF THE BUILD. Compared to Legendary Runes, regular exotic runes cost is trivial, still players are being compensated by getting a relic box, so it makes perfect sense for Legendary Runes to be compensated and Anet reached that conclusion as well. The only thing left to be seen is what form the compensation will take. Edited July 10, 2023 by Swoo.5079 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Swoo.5079 said: Legendary runes lost functionality because THEY ARE RUNES AND RUNES LOST A NON STAT SET BONUS that WILL STILL BE PART OF THE BUILD. That’s not a functionality loss the only function Legendary runes have is freely swapping… that’s a rebalance of runes as a whole not a function loss. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoo.5079 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said: That’s not a functionality loss the only function Legendary runes have is freely swapping… that’s a rebalance of runes as a whole not a function loss. No legendary runes have the ability of being any rune, including runes not yet present in the game, and runes have 6 stat modifiers and a set bonus. Additionally legendary runes can be extracted from any armor without loss of item or rune. Legendary Runes, as the name imply are Runes. You cannot have a rebalance of runes as you call it (I call it loss of function) without Legendary Runes also being rebalanced (or as I call it losing functionality). 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Swoo.5079 said: No legendary runes have the ability of being any rune, including runes not yet present in the game, and runes have 6 stat modifiers and a set bonus. Additionally legendary runes can be extracted from any armor without loss of item or rune. Legendary Runes, as the name imply are Runes. You cannot have a rebalance of runes as you call it (I call it loss of function) without Legendary Runes also being rebalanced (or as I call it losing functionality). The rebalance of runes isn’t them losing functionality, they still have 6/6 effects…. No function was lost if they had 5/5 instead of 6/6 effects yes it would have been a loss of functionality but that’s not the case. Again zero function was lost, just because you don’t like the change means any function was lost 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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