Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Brandash.4956]

Just now, WithoutAssumption.7936 said:

In my opinion Legendary Runes are devalued if they no longer fulfill the purpose I created them for.  They will not fulfill that purpose in SotO, so the expansion will devalue them.

Then please go ahead and explain the purpose you created them for, that is now no longer fulfilled.

[WithoutAssumption.7936]

Just now, Brandash.4956 said:

Then please go ahead and explain the purpose you created them for, that is now no longer fulfilled.

Their current full functionality.

[troy.3257]

I got a feeling the only compensation we are gonna get is something like gems  and a free character slot. Hope Im wrong but thats what Im thinking.

[Brandash.4956]

1 minute ago, troy.3257 said:

I got a feeling the only compensation we are gonna get is something like gems  and a free character slot. Hope Im wrong but thats what Im thinking.

 

22 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

 

[troy.3257]

Ill believe when I see it.

We were also told once that gear doesn't get invalidated by expansions.

Edited July 8, 2023 by troy.3257

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

With my current full set of 7 Legendary Runes, I do not ever have to grind again, buy again, craft again. I can swap between all runes possible whenever I want. 
Get a new character slot and make new character? I can simply equip my legendary weapons, armor, trinkets, runes, sigils and am ready to go with ANY stat I want.

The Relic system takes the 6th bonus away from the Rune Set and put it in a Relic. Therefor the above is no longer possible untill I get that functionality back on a Legendary Relic.

Besides the massive amounts of gold, it is a waste of the 350 Provisioner tokens I spend on my 7 Gifts of Craftmanships.

Those that think it is not a big deal, obviously did not check what it takes to make legendary runes.

Yes the ONLY benefit of this new system is more combination freedom, but what about the thousands of golds I spend? What about the freedom that is taken away? What about the sheer waste of mats to get provisioner tokens? what about all the clovers? 
It is not a minor loss of functionality. It is a MAYOR loss

Again: Currently I do not need to buy ANY gear to have every build possible, that is stripped away.

And for those that think "but you got the benefit from them for a while" You only get the real benefit when you create your 6/7th rune... that was 2 months ago for me. Hardly valuable time

If this change was announced before I started it, i fully and UTTERLY would have ignored the Runes entirely. With now Relics, the Legendary runes and their MASSIVE cost are NOT worth it to create. They need to be MASSIVELY lowered OR there should be a legendary  relic reward after crafting a full set.
Massively lowered in my oppionion means DECIMATED in material cost. Not slightly reduced.

I don't want the Gifts of Craftmanship back as Compensation: I have ZERO use for them now that I am already done.
I don't want the 350 Provisioner tokens, they are USELESS to me since I no longer need them to purchase ANYTHING from those vendors anymore
I don't need the mats back that I used to buy the Provisioner Tokens, I have hardly any use for them anymore.

Hope people now understand a bit better the outcry and the difficulty in compensation. Spended mats returned only goes so far... I have no use for them. I am (or better said, I was) done.

How many builds on Snowcrows/Hardstuck/Metabattle rely on the 6th tier bonus? A lot of them.

Getting tired of people downplaying the loss for us. 

[Astralporing.1957]

14 minutes ago, Brandash.4956 said:

Then please go ahead and explain the purpose you created them for, that is now no longer fulfilled.

The purpose most of people created legendary runes for is to never having to worry about rune changes in the future. And by "runes" i mean all of what the current runes encompass. So, for example, if Some runes got changed and became better than Scholar - or if Scholar 6th bonus got changed into something worse - they'd be able to adjust to that change. Immediately and at no cost.

Now, after the Relic introduction, this will no longer be true, because part of that functionality will get split off into relic. This chas two consequences. First is immediate - all their current builds will lose the current 6th rune bonus, because it will no longer be part of rune bonuses, but will be in Relic instead - which they will not have. So, instead of adjusting to that change (immediately and at no cost), they will have to put effort into obtaining Relics they are now missing. But that's not all - if in future there will be any changes to Relics, again, in order to adjust they won't be able to adjust (immediately and at no cost), but will have to farm for new Relics to replace the obsoleted ones.

Those players paid a huge amount of gold in order to be free from worry for all future balance changes, but suddenly this will no longer be true. And no, the fact that part of it will be called "Relic balance" will not help - that's just adding a different label to the same stuff you bought, and saying that due to that it is no longer part of what you bought.

[Brandash.4956]

If there are many different Relics that try to emulate the stuff we already have, I guess the perfect solution to apease the "but my set bonus" crowd would be to give Legendary Runes the following effect: "While you have an empty Relic slot and six Legendary Runes all set to the same Rune, gain the effect of the assosiated Relic". That way you will still get the set bonus exactly as before but not be able to freely swap the Relic like a Legendary Relic would allow (and what would probably be best for most builds). Sure, some Runes will have a different set bonus compared to now, but that would have happened with any Rune overhaul and does not effect the value of Legendary Runes.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Brandash.4956

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Brandash.4956 said:

If there are many different Relics that try to emulate the stuff we already have, I guess the perfect solution to apease the "but my set bonus" crowd would be to give Legendary Runes the following effect: "While you have an empty Relic slot and six Legendary Runes all set to the same Rune, gain the effect of the assosiated Relic". That way you will still get the set bonus exactly as before but not be able to freely swap the Relic like a Legendary Relic would allow (and what would probably be best for most builds). Sure, some Runes will have a different set bonus compared to now, but what would have happened with any Rune overhaul and does not effect the value of Legendary Runes.

You are too hung on this specific case to see a bigger picture. One of the main purposes of Legendaries is freedom from balance changes. People gathering Legendaries do that, in part, because they believe that once they fill all their gear slots with Legendaries, they will be 100% protected - forever. If Anet can just split part of the gear functionality into new slots, this no longer apply, because there will never be a point where you're finished with gear. Anet will always be able to partially invalidate the work you do and make you grind for gear again. That's functionally the same as vertical progression style hamster wheel, avoiding which is a reason many players picked GW2 in the first place. 

Notice, that gearing up is one of the things that original dev team was thinking about when they made that old "preparing to have fun" quote. I do not want to keep "preparing to have fun". I'd absolutely hate to see this mentality brought up into this game just because dev team ran out of ideas, or just forgot that this was ever important to some players.

[Geralt.7519]

13 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

With my current full set of 7 Legendary Runes, I do not ever have to grind again, buy again, craft again. I can swap between all runes possible whenever I want. 
Get a new character slot and make new character? I can simply equip my legendary weapons, armor, trinkets, runes, sigils and am ready to go with ANY stat I want.

The Relic system takes the 6th bonus away from the Rune Set and put it in a Relic. Therefor the above is no longer possible untill I get that functionality back on a Legendary Relic.

Besides the massive amounts of gold, it is a waste of the 350 Provisioner tokens I spend on my 7 Gifts of Craftmanships.

Those that think it is not a big deal, obviously did not check what it takes to make legendary runes.

Yes the ONLY benefit of this new system is more combination freedom, but what about the thousands of golds I spend? What about the freedom that is taken away? What about the sheer waste of mats to get provisioner tokens? what about all the clovers? 
It is not a minor loss of functionality. It is a MAYOR loss

Again: Currently I do not need to buy ANY gear to have every build possible, that is stripped away.

And for those that think "but you got the benefit from them for a while" You only get the real benefit when you create your 6/7th rune... that was 2 months ago for me. Hardly valuable time

If this change was announced before I started it, i fully and UTTERLY would have ignored the Runes entirely. With now Relics, the Legendary runes and their MASSIVE cost are NOT worth it to create. They need to be MASSIVELY lowered OR there should be a legendary  relic reward after crafting a full set.
Massively lowered in my oppionion means DECIMATED in material cost. Not slightly reduced.

I don't want the Gifts of Craftmanship back as Compensation: I have ZERO use for them now that I am already done.
I don't want the 350 Provisioner tokens, they are USELESS to me since I no longer need them to purchase ANYTHING from those vendors anymore
I don't need the mats back that I used to buy the Provisioner Tokens, I have hardly any use for them anymore.

Hope people now understand a bit better the outcry and the difficulty in compensation. Spended mats returned only goes so far... I have no use for them. I am (or better said, I was) done.

How many builds on Snowcrows/Hardstuck/Metabattle rely on the 6th tier bonus? A lot of them.

Getting tired of people downplaying the loss for us. 

I feel exactly the same, if I knew they were going to change them this way I would have NEVER crafted them, I don't want mats back either, not only I have no use for them anymore, but giving mats means ignoring the long and tedious grind required to get them, no mats can give you back all the time you invested.

I also made the sigils for the same reason, not having to grind upgrades even again, and now I'm worried they'll get the same treatment sooner or later.

I'm getting tired too of people saying nothing changes, they clearly have no clue of what they're talking about.

[troy.3257]

I spent over a year  ... A YEAR ...farming mats , tokens, clovers and gold to craft all 7 runes  and now Im suppose to roll over and take it up Lions Arch and say  ohhhh its ok its no big deal.

Well it is a BIG DEAL to me. . I dont give 2 shits if the relics are better or not,  thats not the point at all. I wouldnt care if the relics gave me +100 to all my stats plus alac ,superspeed, quickness and a fuzzy bunny pet that can solo champions by itself. I crafted 7 runes to use in game with the TRUST  that the  developers would not one day say oh were are gonna change the use of those.  The time, gold and work you did on them is not worth us caring about. GW2 needs to be honorable and keep their word  that this kind of thing would never happen to any of our gear.

OH and I did not stutter so I dont know WTF you are confused about!

Edited July 8, 2023 by troy.3257

[Brandash.4956]

Six Legendary Runes cost roughly the same as one Legendary Weapon. I agree Provisioner's Tokens were a bit of a unnecessary timegate, but other than having to wait, it was not that of a big deal. I am currently fully legendary on my main (appart from the WvW ring). Should I demand two free legendary pistols because that is what guardians get in the future and then I am no longer "free from balance changes" and "have to grind for gear" again?
Suppose Anet adds a new Socks slot without giving you Legendary Socks, will you all be mad again?

[sharn.8297]

1 minute ago, Brandash.4956 said:

Suppose Anet adds a new Socks slot without giving you Legendary Socks, will you all be mad again?

I would say if the socks replaces an already existing legendary feature (that becomes decommissioned), we have all the right to be upset.

[Caitmonster.9036]

Just now, Brandash.4956 said:

Should I demand two free legendary pistols because that is what guardians get in the future and then I am no longer "free from balance changes" and "have to grind for gear" again?

Did you demand a free legendary axe with Firebrand? Sword with Willbender? Longbow with Dragonhunter?

This is splitting a previously established legendary item (runes) into two separate items and taking away the final set bonus by slapping it into a new gimmicky equipment slot. Your legendary runes are losing actual value (in this case it's the final set bonus) because of this change. If you want that final set bonus back, you'd now have to re-grind for it which is the whole point of legendary equipment in the first place and it has been Anet's standard since launch. Not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend.

[Brandash.4956]

3 minutes ago, sharn.8297 said:

I would say if the socks replaces an already existing legendary feature (that becomes decommissioned), we have all the right to be upset.

As Legendary Runes are not decommissioned and will still have a great usage as explained in my earlier posts, so you should not be upset.

[troy.3257]

Im not demanding any kitten thing I didnt ask for a relic I  dont want a relic I just want to be able to use what I crafted and worked for plain and simple.

[sharn.8297]

1 minute ago, Brandash.4956 said:

As Legendary Runes are not decommissioned and will still have a great usage as explained in my earlier posts, so you should not be upset.

Since the relic is a recreation of the 6th rune feature, and since that rune feature is decomissioned from the rune set, you are wrong.

[Caitmonster.9036]

15 minutes ago, Brandash.4956 said:

As Legendary Runes are not decommissioned and will still have a great usage as explained in my earlier posts, so you should not be upset.

It will have 'great usage' perhaps, but its value will still be diminished with the set bonus' removal.

It's devaluing legendary items, which is something Anet assured us would never happen in their game. That's why people are irritated.

 

EDIT: I see the Anet simps are confused-bombing the thread now. Hi guys o/

Edited July 8, 2023 by Caitmonster.9036

[Geralt.7519]

35 minutes ago, Brandash.4956 said:

I am currently fully legendary on my main

Ok, let's say Anet next xpac decides to strip the belt from pants and create a new belt slot, your legendary pants now have half the stats because Anet moved half of it to the belt and there's no legendary belt so you have to grind the belt again on all your chars at every balance patch to get back what you had before the change.

Would you still say your pants have the same value as before with half the stats they had before and having to regrind half of it at every patch?

Edit: what's there to be confused about, do y'all need pictures? Reading is not enough?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Geralt.7519

[Astralporing.1957]

45 minutes ago, Brandash.4956 said:

Suppose Anet adds a new Socks slot without giving you Legendary Socks, will you all be mad again?

Yes. Lack of hamster wheels was one of the reasons why i decided to stick with this game, and is one of the key features that differentiate it from competition. If i;ll see that they decided to start introducing it through a back door, i will definitely end up extremely displeased with it.

[Ashen.2907]

So, in the next expac ANet removes stats from armor and creates new gear slots for each piece:

Hat Band

Brooch

Necktie

Bracelet

Belt

Anklet

That each need to be grinded/purchased....that would be OK?

And the expansion after that they break each of those pieces up into three or four separate gear slots (ome for each stat) also OK?

After all they didnt take anyone's legendary armor away, they just redefined what it is and created new slots. No reason to be unhappy with the change.

[Infinity.1087]

On 7/7/2023 at 5:17 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello everyone, we have been following this conversation and continuing to read your feedback since my last post, and I'm here to give you another quick update. Like other major elements of the expansion, we’re planning on providing more information on relics before launch. For relics specifically, we’re working to get that blog ready for publish on July 18—and because I know you’re wondering, that timeline is so we can write it, review it for accuracy, edit it, and translate it into all supported languages.

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

Thank you for giving us a timeline to look forward to @Rubi Bayer.8493! Again, I think most people are okay with the introduction of relics for the versatility but just want to make sure both current and future legendary rune holders are not losing out on something they have dedicated a good amount of gameplay towards.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

58 minutes ago, Brandash.4956 said:

As Legendary Runes are not decommissioned and will still have a great usage as explained in my earlier posts, so you should not be upset.

Why are you not reading?

Current status for me: Never worry about armor upgrades - THAT is why I spend TONS of time and recourses on Runes.
Someone spend a year on it, took me close to a year and a half
And now the PRIME functionality: NEVER worry about Armor upgrades EVER AGAIN is TAKEN AWAY from me after ONLY TWO MONTHS OF CRAFTING THE 6TH TIER RUNE!

That is Massive devaluation in my book!

[Infinity.1087]

1 hour ago, Brandash.4956 said:

Six Legendary Runes cost roughly the same as one Legendary Weapon. I agree Provisioner's Tokens were a bit of a unnecessary timegate, but other than having to wait, it was not that of a big deal. I am currently fully legendary on my main (appart from the WvW ring). Should I demand two free legendary pistols because that is what guardians get in the future and then I am no longer "free from balance changes" and "have to grind for gear" again?
Suppose Anet adds a new Socks slot without giving you Legendary Socks, will you all be mad again?

^ I think this guy's trolling

That aside, I think we are presenting a pretty united front in regards to this subject. One of the, if not the greatest feature of this game is the fact that it does not force you to grind for newer gear every patch/expansion. Also, respect to ANet for not breaking their promise like never introducing another set of gear beyond ascended for the past decade, which has served as a cornerstone and the single most unique feature that GW2 has over every other MMOs out there. It would set a dangerous precedent if this change goes through as is, but I have faith that they will do the right thing here and make this right for legendary rune holders. July 18th isn't that far out, let's enjoy the summer for a few days and see where the dice lands.

[Peter.3901]

Guys, stop feeding the trolls, those clowns even own a single legendary piece nor have a clue about how grindy is.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Peter.3901