New Mesmer Weapon: Rifle

[draxynnic.3719]

16 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

18th and 19th century warfare was definitely about shooting with them muskets. But bayonet charges were where battles were really decided due to the short range, slow firing rate, and inaccuracy of muskets.

Yes that's not necessarily a consideration here. But I also wasn't saying that they shouldn't be useful in shooting. 

Like Engineers I was suggesting a large part of their damage comes from high damage fairly low cooldown shotgun blast type AOE.

 

I really hope they don't give Mesmers hammers. They are the most awkward playing weapons on any class in GW2.

 

 

Bayonet charges happened, but I think you might be exaggerating how often they were used. The primary function of the bayonet during the period was to fend off cavalry.

If you look at engineer rifle, you'll see it's the opposite of what you proposed - a long range autoattack, while some of its other skills are intended for shorter range.

Just because you don't like hammer on other professions doesn't mean a mesmer hammer wouldn't work. Certainly better, if you're looking for a 2H melee option, than 'rifle with pink bayonet'.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:52 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Bayonet charges happened, but I think you might be exaggerating how often they were used. The primary function of the bayonet during the period was to fend off cavalry.

If you look at engineer rifle, you'll see it's the opposite of what you proposed - a long range autoattack, while some of its other skills are intended for shorter range.

Just because you don't like hammer on other professions doesn't mean a mesmer hammer wouldn't work. Certainly better, if you're looking for a 2H melee option, than 'rifle with pink bayonet'.

Regarding the engineer rifle sure it's a long ranged auto attack.

But the Warriors greatsword yet the Mesmers is a laser cannon...

The Mesmer just inverts things to try to kitten with the opponents minds.

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Regarding the engineer rifle sure it's a long ranged auto attack.

But the Warriors greatsword yet the Mesmers is a laser cannon...

The Mesmer just inverts things to try to kitten with the opponents minds.

Ah, yes, the 'mesmer does things weirdly' argument.

Mesmer greatsword isn't as weird as you claim, though. There's a lot of precedent in fantasy generally for the "melee weapon being used as a channel for a ranged magical attack" concept, with the most archetypical probably being Link's sword beam. Guild Wars 2 has several other examples, such as necromancer axe, revenant hammer, and elementalist fiery greatsword. Mesmer greatsword is far from being a unique precedent that justifies any weird behaviour in the future.

But there is no good reason for a weapon that is specifically designed for propelling a ranged attack down a hollow barrel to be turned into a melee weapon just to subvert expectations. Handguns in general are always portrayed as ranged weapons first, with a bayonet being a backup weapon. Now, there are some RPGs that accurately portray the length of time it takes for a muzzle-loading firearm to reload, and therefore in practice you tend to only get one or two shots in a typical fight before resorting to melee, but Guild Wars 2 threw that out years ago. When the nonmagical professions like warrior and engineer get to fire volleys, I really don't think ArenaNet is going to take the magical profession and go "yeah, THIS profession needs an extended reload time and has to resort to melee in between shots" because "mesmer just inverts things". It's almost certainly going to be firing pink-purple energy of some kind down that barrel as the basic attack.

Another thing worth noting is that rifle was originally planned to go with chronomancer before they decided it was more fitting to go with shield instead. It's highly likely that mesmer rifle will be recycling whatever concepts they had for that.

If you want a two-handed melee weapon for mesmer, hammer still exists. It's unlikely that ArenaNet shares your belief that any hammer skillset is destined to be bad.

ADDENDUM: On further considerations, even in isolation and without considering the specifics of the weapon, the "turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon to mess with people's minds" just doesn't work as well as the reverse does.

Imagine you're a Tyrian and you see someone holding a greatsword, and you don't know what profession they are. Your baseline expectation is that as long as you keep your distance from them you'll be relatively safe, so you may be caught off guard when phantasmal berserkers appear around you, your protection has been removed by a purple blade coming out of the ground at your feet, and there's a mirror blade flying at your face.

Now, imagine the reverse: you see someone with a rifle and you don't know their profession. You do know, however, that warriors, engineers, and thieves can fire their rifles at a sustained rate of about one shot per second. So as soon as someone with a rifle isn't shooting, you might already be starting to get suspicious. If they DO shoot, it's probably some flashy mesmer pink/purple effect, and then you know. The surprise factor is gone. The only way that your pink bayonet mesmer idea could actually fake someone out is if their tactic is to teleport into the enemy's face and start stabbing.

Which is not exactly a new playstyle for mesmer, and from a gameplay perspective, such a tactic would probably work better with something like hammer where the full skill lineup can be built around a teleport-and-smash gameplay rather than repeating the mistakes of 300-range Wave of Wrath staff.

Edited August 15, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Kulvar.1239]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:59 AM, otto.5684 said:

In terms of what mesmer needs, it makes more sense to be melee, considering that we have 2 power ranged weapons and 2 condi ranges weapons. 3 condi if you count dagger as both melee and range.

But, ya… hitting enemies with melee rifle would be pretty silly. More realistically, I think it will be a close range weapon. Somewhat how engi rifle and LB warrior play.

In term of what mesmer needs, it makes more sense to be a healing weapon.

[Teknomancer.4895]

Chaos Blast: randomly converts one boon to a condition for each active clone, hits up to 5 targets. Allies in the area have the same number of conditions converted to boons. Medium range. 

Won't happen but could be a fun shotgun skill.

[Tseison.4659]

I think it would be cool if Rifle had a mechanic where illusions/clones will generate these “special bullet F1-F4 skills” that hit hard and have varying effects. Just an idea though since I’ve been liking not having to rely on clones as the Virtuoso. 😊
 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Tseison.4659

[fool moon.5308]

The absolutely crazy mental gymnastics that I've seen on the elementalist, guardian, and mesmer forums about how their profession shouldn't get a gun is astounding. There is a very vocal group that just don't want guns when the setting they play in fully supports the use of guns with various types of magic. Rifle and pistol are sorely undertilized, it's about time more professions got their hands on them... I'm looking forward to rifle mesmer, as well as mainhand pistol in the hopefully not-too-distant future so I can play a full-on illusionary gunslinger.

At least I'm highly amused by the few dudes on the guardian forum talking about PURGING HERESY.

Edited August 20, 2023 by fool moon.5308

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:38 AM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

That's hilarious and I love it, but probably not happening. 😞

 

I mean Druids CA form #1 heals you while shooting you with solar beams slamming into your face lol

[Kulvar.1239]

On 8/20/2023 at 5:05 PM, fool moon.5308 said:

 

Most people wanted either longbow, shortbow, hammer, or maces over rifle.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:05 AM, fool moon.5308 said:

The absolutely crazy mental gymnastics that I've seen on the elementalist, guardian, and mesmer forums about how their profession shouldn't get a gun is astounding. There is a very vocal group that just don't want guns when the setting they play in fully supports the use of guns with various types of magic. Rifle and pistol are sorely undertilized, it's about time more professions got their hands on them... I'm looking forward to rifle mesmer, as well as mainhand pistol in the hopefully not-too-distant future so I can play a full-on illusionary gunslinger.

At least I'm highly amused by the few dudes on the guardian forum talking about PURGING HERESY.

I have no problem with the Mesmer getting a rifle.

I just don't expect the Mesmer to use it like a Warriors or Engineers rifle.

The Mesmer already has the Greatsword and Dagger as ranged power weapons and the Scepter and Staff as ranged Condi weapons. I don't really see the rifle needing to just be yet another option to fit with those.

I think it would be a shame to have a gun and not make use of it's range. I was just suggesting that it could have a variety of ranged attacks that are all with cooldowns just have the Auto Attack with no cooldown as a melee attack.

I also think it's likely to be a support weapon. But I'd prefer the Scepter be updated to be a healing weapon and the Rifle be the condi DPS.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

So a repeat of the guardian staff around PoF then. That was reworked for a reason. What you propose would be a patchwork mess that is neither a good melee weapon nor a good ranged weapon.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

So a repeat of the guardian staff around PoF then. That was reworked for a reason. What you propose would be a patchwork mess that is neither a good melee weapon nor a good ranged weapon.

Well I think it's more likely to just be a repeat of the Warrior Rifle. Just a bog standard ranged DPS to go along with our other 4 ranged weapons. To either completely replace the Greatsword or be useless compared to the Greatsword.

But 90% of endgame PVE happens in tight groups in melee range of the bosses. Look at the current Mesmer Greatsword. Its AA is junk. It really doesn't add anything to the weapon.

My rifle idea the majority of the damage would be coming from the low cooldown shotgun AOE blast like the Engineers rifle as well as whatever Phantasm would be used.

It really doesn't have to be bad and it would probably have a better mobility skill than the other Mesmer weapons to close the gap from using ranged skills to get in range for the auto attack.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Well I think it's more likely to just be a repeat of the Warrior Rifle. Just a bog standard ranged DPS to go along with our other 4 ranged weapons. To either completely replace the Greatsword or be useless compared to the Greatsword.

But 90% of endgame PVE happens in tight groups in melee range of the bosses. Look at the current Mesmer Greatsword. Its AA is junk. It really doesn't add anything to the weapon.

My rifle idea the majority of the damage would be coming from the low cooldown shotgun AOE blast like the Engineers rifle as well as whatever Phantasm would be used.

It really doesn't have to be bad and it would probably have a better mobility skill than the other Mesmer weapons to close the gap from using ranged skills to get in range for the auto attack.

If the weapon's cooldown skills are all ranged and the autoattack is melee, all you've done is created a mismatch. The experiment has been done. It sucked. If you're comparing to engineer rifle... engineer rifle still has a long-range autoattack so it maintains standoff capability at all times while having the choice to go in for more damage. Melee weapon sets, particularly 2H melee weapon sets, might have a close-ranged attack or two, but most of the bar is skills that support melee.

Also... *checks "endgame is all melee" off bingo card". ArenaNet has shown an increasing tendency to introduce mechanics into the endgame encounters that reward having ranged capability. If you stick to stuff that was made before Sunqua, that's mostly true, but the more recently produced content rewards, and in some cases like Lion's Court practically requires, decent ranged capabilities as well.

[Scolix.4879]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:52 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Bayonet charges happened, but I think you might be exaggerating how often they were used.

Bayonet charge is also already reserved for elementalist when it gets its melee rifle eventually no shooting just whacking people with rifle butt and stabbing with it.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

19 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

If the weapon's cooldown skills are all ranged and the autoattack is melee, all you've done is created a mismatch. The experiment has been done. It sucked. If you're comparing to engineer rifle... engineer rifle still has a long-range autoattack so it maintains standoff capability at all times while having the choice to go in for more damage. Melee weapon sets, particularly 2H melee weapon sets, might have a close-ranged attack or two, but most of the bar is skills that support melee.

Also... *checks "endgame is all melee" off bingo card". ArenaNet has shown an increasing tendency to introduce mechanics into the endgame encounters that reward having ranged capability. If you stick to stuff that was made before Sunqua, that's mostly true, but the more recently produced content rewards, and in some cases like Lion's Court practically requires, decent ranged capabilities as well.

You do realize you can use ranged attacks in melee range don't you?

Being in melee range doesn't preclude you from using abilities with a long range.

Having a rifle with a melee auto attack and three ranged attacks will be much better than the existing melee weapons the Mesmer has for things like Sunqua. 

Right now the Axe and Sword don't have any ranged capability and the off hands have one CC and a phantasm.

 

People want a hammer as a melee weapon for Mesmer. Unless it has multiple abilities with range then it won't be usable at all in encounters where ranged combat is needed.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

3 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

Bayonet charge is also already reserved for elementalist when it gets its melee rifle eventually no shooting just whacking people with rifle butt and stabbing with it.

The question is semantics. The Elementalist can charge up a bayonet with electricity. The Mesmer may charge at enemies with a bayonet.

[VoodooChurch.6513]

1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

You do realize you can use ranged attacks in melee range don't you?

Being in melee range doesn't preclude you from using abilities with a long range.

Having a rifle with a melee auto attack and three ranged attacks will be much better than the existing melee weapons the Mesmer has for things like Sunqua. 

Right now the Axe and Sword don't have any ranged capability and the off hands have one CC and a phantasm.

 

People want a hammer as a melee weapon for Mesmer. Unless it has multiple abilities with range then it won't be usable at all in encounters where ranged combat is needed.

You do realize there are more game modes than raids and fractals where everyone stacks up, right? A melee AA with ranged attacks is a stupid idea. Second only to the idiotic "melee healing weapon." What about WvW? PvP? Open world? Give it a rest already

[Ganogati.8963]

A one mesmer firing squad.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

You do realize you can use ranged attacks in melee range don't you?

Being in melee range doesn't preclude you from using abilities with a long range.

Having a rifle with a melee auto attack and three ranged attacks will be much better than the existing melee weapons the Mesmer has for things like Sunqua. 

Right now the Axe and Sword don't have any ranged capability and the off hands have one CC and a phantasm.

 

People want a hammer as a melee weapon for Mesmer. Unless it has multiple abilities with range then it won't be usable at all in encounters where ranged combat is needed.

You do realise that a fully ranged rifle would still be able to use ranged attacks in melee range, right?

Being in melee range doesn't preclude you from using abilities with a long range.

Three ranged attacks won't get you very far if the phase that calls for going ranged lasts longer than three seconds or so.

As for axe and sword having no ranged capability outside of the offhand, that's why weaponswap exists. Which also would apply to a melee hammer.

Ironic reversals aside, the issue is what the weapon is optimised to do.

Ranged weapons are intended to be used primarily at range, and have a ranged autoattack to facilitate that, since if they're supposed to be a ranged weapon, you want to be able to remain at range even if all your cooldowns are, well, cooling down. You might have a few skills that reward getting in closer, allowing you to exploit moments where you do have the opportunity to close distance in an otherwise ranged fight, but your default attack is ranged. And this is what actually works in things like Sunqua, Lion's Court, and so on - you'll have periods where you can get in close, but if you do have to sit back and shoot, you don't want to go through your cooldown skills and then be left twiddling your thumbs if the situation that called for ranged attacks hasn't concluded yet.

Melee weapons with ranged skills on cooldown, on the other hand, have those ranged attacks optimised to support an otherwise melee playstyle. Often, the ranged attack is a snare or a pull of some kind. Some are intended as a skill you can use if you need to get out of melee briefly before jumping back in, or you want to finish off a target who's otherwise just out of reach. And some are simply area effects that happen to extend beyond melee range. Looking through the list of 2H weapons with melee autoattacks, I can only find two which have more than one ranged attack among their five skills outside of PBAoEs, and those are both technicalities (everyone knows you Whirling Wrath inside the target hitbox if you can, and catalyst hammer has attunements, but each of the attunements with a melee attack only has one ranged attack each and that's Grand Finale.

Every case of a weapon which has had a melee autoattack but which could otherwise be viewed as a ranged weapon has been reworked so that was no longer the case. Guardian staff was pretty short-lived before they reworked both the autoattack and skill 2 into a full ranged weapon. Revenant spear had its "effectively has two autoattacks" status removed and Rapid Assault was given a cooldown (which might be the one way your "pink bayonet flurry" might happen - as a skill 2 or 3 on a cooldown). Gunsaber was turned into a full ranged weapon that just does more damage to targets within melee reach. The idea you're trying to sell has been tried, and it failed.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 8/24/2023 at 6:28 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

If the weapon's cooldown skills are all ranged and the autoattack is melee, all you've done is created a mismatch. The experiment has been done. It sucked. If you're comparing to engineer rifle... engineer rifle still has a long-range autoattack so it maintains standoff capability at all times while having the choice to go in for more damage. Melee weapon sets, particularly 2H melee weapon sets, might have a close-ranged attack or two, but most of the bar is skills that support melee.

Also... *checks "endgame is all melee" off bingo card". ArenaNet has shown an increasing tendency to introduce mechanics into the endgame encounters that reward having ranged capability. If you stick to stuff that was made before Sunqua, that's mostly true, but the more recently produced content rewards, and in some cases like Lion's Court practically requires, decent ranged capabilities as well.

I think y'all are being obtuse.

 

Look at the Mesmer meta loadout before SoTO.

Sword/Sword.

It only has 2 melee skills.

-Auto Attack

-Flurry

The rest are ranged skills.

-Generate a clone at range that may be used to Shadowstep to swap places.

-Block and cast a medium to long range daze attack 

-Phantasm that has a 900+ range.

 

So why the kitten would a rifle with a melee auto attack and skills built for DPS really be worse off?

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You do realise that a fully ranged rifle would still be able to use ranged attacks in melee range, right?

Being in melee range doesn't preclude you from using abilities with a long range.

Three ranged attacks won't get you very far if the phase that calls for going ranged lasts longer than three seconds or so.

As for axe and sword having no ranged capability outside of the offhand, that's why weaponswap exists. Which also would apply to a melee hammer.

Ironic reversals aside, the issue is what the weapon is optimised to do.

Ranged weapons are intended to be used primarily at range, and have a ranged autoattack to facilitate that, since if they're supposed to be a ranged weapon, you want to be able to remain at range even if all your cooldowns are, well, cooling down. You might have a few skills that reward getting in closer, allowing you to exploit moments where you do have the opportunity to close distance in an otherwise ranged fight, but your default attack is ranged. And this is what actually works in things like Sunqua, Lion's Court, and so on - you'll have periods where you can get in close, but if you do have to sit back and shoot, you don't want to go through your cooldown skills and then be left twiddling your thumbs if the situation that called for ranged attacks hasn't concluded yet.

Melee weapons with ranged skills on cooldown, on the other hand, have those ranged attacks optimised to support an otherwise melee playstyle. Often, the ranged attack is a snare or a pull of some kind. Some are intended as a skill you can use if you need to get out of melee briefly before jumping back in, or you want to finish off a target who's otherwise just out of reach. And some are simply area effects that happen to extend beyond melee range. Looking through the list of 2H weapons with melee autoattacks, I can only find two which have more than one ranged attack among their five skills outside of PBAoEs, and those are both technicalities (everyone knows you Whirling Wrath inside the target hitbox if you can, and catalyst hammer has attunements, but each of the attunements with a melee attack only has one ranged attack each and that's Grand Finale.

Every case of a weapon which has had a melee autoattack but which could otherwise be viewed as a ranged weapon has been reworked so that was no longer the case. Guardian staff was pretty short-lived before they reworked both the autoattack and skill 2 into a full ranged weapon. Revenant spear had its "effectively has two autoattacks" status removed and Rapid Assault was given a cooldown (which might be the one way your "pink bayonet flurry" might happen - as a skill 2 or 3 on a cooldown). Gunsaber was turned into a full ranged weapon that just does more damage to targets within melee reach. The idea you're trying to sell has been tried, and it failed.

And what do players with melee weapons normally do when they're playing a boss with a ranged phase?

They swap weapons.

This game and especially Mesmers CONSTANTLY swap weapons to keep throwing out Phantasms.

Why do you suddenly insist that this rifle is the only weapon the Mesmer has available?

[draxynnic.3719]

22 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I think y'all are being obtuse.

 

Look at the Mesmer meta loadout before SoTO.

Sword/Sword.

It only has 2 melee skills.

-Auto Attack

-Flurry

The rest are ranged skills.

-Generate a clone at range that may be used to Shadowstep to swap places.

-Block and cast a medium to long range daze attack 

-Phantasm that has a 900+ range.

 

So why the kitten would a rifle with a melee auto attack and skills built for DPS really be worse off?

First, that's a MH/OH combination. I was focusing on 2H combinations because on any profession with ranged offhands, there's always the possibility of combining a melee MH with a ranged OH, especially since OHs tend to be a bit hybridesque. Rifle, however, would be a 2H weapon, not a MH/OH combination where the player chooses to combine a melee MH with a more ranged-oriented OH.

But okay, let's break down sword/sword:

Autoattack is melee.

Flurry is melee.

Illusionary Leap is a snare and gap-closer. On core mesmer, chrono, and mirage, it CAN be used to spawn a clone without closing. On Virtuoso, it's purely a gap-closer, although it does spawn a dagger in the process.

Illusionary Riposte is primarily a block. It has the option to convert that into a ranged CC skill, because there's the possibility that someone might use it with a ranged MH, but blocks are generally more within the realm of melee sets that need defences more.

Phantasmal Swordsman is primarily a phantasm generator, but it's worth noting that the skill also employs a melee strike from the caster. So while you can use it purely as a ranged phantasm summon, you're losing out by doing so.

MH sword on its own fits the profile. Melee attack, melee attack, quasi-ranged attack (if not a virtuoso) that generates a clone. You can then choose your offhand according to whether you want more melee, or something more oriented towards ranged attacks like pistol.

Which is a common interaction on other professions since, again, offhands can be focused for melee, range, or be a bit of a hybrid. Necromancer, for instance, could combine dagger with focus or another dagger for a playstyle very similar to what you're asking rifle to be: but dagger necromancers aren't locked into this, they can also run warhorn for a more melee-oriented approach.

The very argument you're making here actually demonstrates why what you're asking for rifle to be turned into isn't needed. If you want that "melee autoattack but most of the other skills are ranged", you can do it. By combining a melee mainhand with a ranged-oriented offhand. But two-handed weapons are supposed to offer a coherent playstyle on their own, and the observation there is that every case of a 2H weapon having a melee autoattack while everything else is ranged has not worked. Hybrid styles on 2H weapons have repeatedly shown to work better if the autoattack is ranged, but there are cooldown skills or other features (such as doing more damage at closer range) that reward going into melee.

Now, it's likely that a hypothetical 2H mesmer melee weapon would still be able to summon clones and phantasms at range, but that's a far cry from a rifle with a pink bayonet autoattack that is otherwise mostly ranged.

22 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

And what do players with melee weapons normally do when they're playing a boss with a ranged phase?

They swap weapons.

This game and especially Mesmers CONSTANTLY swap weapons to keep throwing out Phantasms.

Why do you suddenly insist that this rifle is the only weapon the Mesmer has available?

You're the one trying to justify mesmer rifle being a melee weapon with a few ranged cooldown skills on the basis that the ranged cooldown skills can be used when forced to fight at range. You've just repeated my point as to why such a weapon style isn't necessary: because you can have a melee set and then swap to a ranged set. There's no good reason for a mesmer rifle to be melee, just your desire to subvert expectations for the sake of subverting expectations. 

[rawisz.6439]

Mesmer covers ranged and melee weapons for power and condi. Why do you even think that rifle will be dps weapon? I guess it will be heal and support oriented, because its only role which is lacking right now.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Seeing as balance team despises mesmer, I'm pretty sure that rifle is self-inflicted damage.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 8/27/2023 at 12:00 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

First, that's a MH/OH combination. I was focusing on 2H combinations because on any profession with ranged offhands, there's always the possibility of combining a melee MH with a ranged OH, especially since OHs tend to be a bit hybridesque. Rifle, however, would be a 2H weapon, not a MH/OH combination where the player chooses to combine a melee MH with a more ranged-oriented OH.

But okay, let's break down sword/sword:

Autoattack is melee.

Flurry is melee.

Illusionary Leap is a snare and gap-closer. On core mesmer, chrono, and mirage, it CAN be used to spawn a clone without closing. On Virtuoso, it's purely a gap-closer, although it does spawn a dagger in the process.

Illusionary Riposte is primarily a block. It has the option to convert that into a ranged CC skill, because there's the possibility that someone might use it with a ranged MH, but blocks are generally more within the realm of melee sets that need defences more.

Phantasmal Swordsman is primarily a phantasm generator, but it's worth noting that the skill also employs a melee strike from the caster. So while you can use it purely as a ranged phantasm summon, you're losing out by doing so.

MH sword on its own fits the profile. Melee attack, melee attack, quasi-ranged attack (if not a virtuoso) that generates a clone. You can then choose your offhand according to whether you want more melee, or something more oriented towards ranged attacks like pistol.

Which is a common interaction on other professions since, again, offhands can be focused for melee, range, or be a bit of a hybrid. Necromancer, for instance, could combine dagger with focus or another dagger for a playstyle very similar to what you're asking rifle to be: but dagger necromancers aren't locked into this, they can also run warhorn for a more melee-oriented approach.

The very argument you're making here actually demonstrates why what you're asking for rifle to be turned into isn't needed. If you want that "melee autoattack but most of the other skills are ranged", you can do it. By combining a melee mainhand with a ranged-oriented offhand. But two-handed weapons are supposed to offer a coherent playstyle on their own, and the observation there is that every case of a 2H weapon having a melee autoattack while everything else is ranged has not worked. Hybrid styles on 2H weapons have repeatedly shown to work better if the autoattack is ranged, but there are cooldown skills or other features (such as doing more damage at closer range) that reward going into melee.

Now, it's likely that a hypothetical 2H mesmer melee weapon would still be able to summon clones and phantasms at range, but that's a far cry from a rifle with a pink bayonet autoattack that is otherwise mostly ranged.

You're the one trying to justify mesmer rifle being a melee weapon with a few ranged cooldown skills on the basis that the ranged cooldown skills can be used when forced to fight at range. You've just repeated my point as to why such a weapon style isn't necessary: because you can have a melee set and then swap to a ranged set. There's no good reason for a mesmer rifle to be melee, just your desire to subvert expectations for the sake of subverting expectations. 

What melee OH does the Mesmer have? The Torch is the closest because it has short range for the self burn... But it's entirely a Condi weapon and doesn't work well paired with the Sword which is purely a Power weapon.

It doesn't matter what OH a Sword Mesmer uses, there are very few close range skills for the Mesmer.

Sword 4 is a block. But it's not a melee skill. Are you saying the Scepter block is melee just because it blocks any attack?

 

You still haven't explained how having some ranged skills on a bar suddenly make a melee weapon ineffective.

 

 

Having a few good ranged abilities means when a boss uses a Spread Out mechanic the character is still able to participate with a few attacks. Guardians can't do any attacks in this time.

But yes once the ranged attacks are on cooldown then you have to wait for them to come back. With a low cooldown DPS shot and Phantasms that Mesmers already reset cooldowns on they can continue fighting for 10 seconds or so at range.

But if a boss has a full phase where you need to be doing ranged then you'll run out of attacks so swap.

But having some ranged attacks on a melee weapon means you don't lose out doing quick mechanics that make you move away temporarily.