Batalix.2873 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Shortbow instead of rifle please. We need a proper bardy weapon and a mid-range/control weapon and Virt already has GS and dagger for 1200 range. Thanks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: As a Mesmer main and I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this because finally, Mesmers have something good, but as my main class I rather call out the nerfs then other people and Devs nerfing more than intended because of all these Mesmer haters. Dagger ambush is absolutely too strong with IH trait. It is basically P/PD thief build for but Mesmer. It is a free F3 spam ranged and can be casted backwards while all clones benefit from the daze as well. As much as I would love to see this live I know the Mesmer haters would call this out in a few weeks asking Mesmers to be nerfed to the ground and touch something else unintended. Don't go live with the dagger on Mirage. Is Dagger Ambush really that much better than Scepter Ambush? Scepter Ambush deals out 5x conditions for each clone and the clones deal Torment conditions while Auto Attacking. Plus Scepter is great for maintaining clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Just now, Roadkizzle.2157 said: Is Dagger Ambush really that much better than Scepter Ambush? Scepter Ambush deals out 5x conditions for each clone and the clones deal Torment conditions while Auto Attacking. Plus Scepter is great for maintaining clones. its the perma daze that you can put on that scepter does not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: its the perma daze that you can put on that scepter does not. Does the Daze duration stack with all the clones giving it? If Mirage can guarantee enemies get permanently Dazed there is less than zero chance that it will survive into release. People already complained to much about the invulnerability of Mirage's. Imagine if there's no way you can ever attack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 2 hours ago, ascii.1369 said: wtf? I just destroyed some people in competitive with axe chrono. It was kitten ton of fun. What makes it better than Sword? Just the jump? I didn't think Chrono would do well with the Axe because the class hasn't been able to function as Condi for a long time. I was planning on trying out the Dagger Chrono tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: Does the Daze duration stack with all the clones giving it? If Mirage can guarantee enemies get permanently Dazed there is less than zero chance that it will survive into release. People already complained to much about the invulnerability of Mirage's. Imagine if there's no way you can ever attack them. Yes it does a clones benefit from it when running IH which is why I said dagger ambush can not go live the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 16 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: Does the Daze duration stack with all the clones giving it? If Mirage can guarantee enemies get permanently Dazed there is less than zero chance that it will survive into release. People already complained to much about the invulnerability of Mirage's. Imagine if there's no way you can ever attack them. CC don't stack. They overwrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: It works GREAT for other classes. Tempest with Sword and Warhorn is getting 48k+ benchmark. But the Mesmer spec weapons are just useless without the specs traitline or is just useless like the shield. ^ Literally the standard of this entire F-ing game. I come back after years to see if there is any improvement just to see this kitten? All you guys ever do is gut functionality, kill viability, and add clunk. Then you turn around and create the double standard for every class while having the internal numbers that proves it underperforms. Meaning you INTEND for it to under perform or to be clunky as hell. I don't even know where to start about what's wrong with everything you guys did to the class CLEARLY in preparation for this, it just blows my mind in the worst way possible. You have a cute little beta for this pretending like you're trying to make things balanced, but we all know how this goes by now. Each and every person in charge of balance including the discord, and community outreach, should be made to take a trip to the Titanic in a Sub built with the equivalent quality of design as Mirage over the past 2 years. Edited June 29, 2023 by Daishi.6027 2 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) I play tested some power dagger mirage in PvP. The ambush is indeed very strong but the lackluster skill 2 and 3 somehow keeps the weapon in check. I still feel GS is overall stronger weapon due to the burst. I couldn't make condi dagger mirage work at all. The damage is simply too low. Edited June 29, 2023 by Exciton.8942 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gesbo.6420 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 We either need to consider blade skills illusions or we need to need to have the illusions attacks prock the flurry of blades. Sharp images is such a cool trait that doesnt take enough use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, Exciton.8942 said: I play tested some power dagger mirage in PvP. The ambush is indeed very strong but the lackluster skill 2 and 3 somehow keeps the weapon in check. I still feel GS is overall stronger weapon due to the burst. I couldn't make condi dagger mirage work at all. The damage is simply too low. With the new follow-up changes CMC posted GS Mirage may be the way to go for Mirages now regardless of the Weaponmaster system. 25% damage buff to the GS Ambush in PVE and 10% in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) How will the Virtuoso with Axe and Shield and the top row Virt traits do? It seems to me the Blocking traits may play better with the Axe because the Axe doesn't have the sheer number of hits to generate Bleeds through the traits. Try to generate as many blades as quick as possible through Blocks and evades. Then throw out Bladesongs like there's no tomorrow. Edited June 29, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaden.1420 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 I also played around with dagger Mirage a bit and came to the same conlusions as the other commentators here. The ambush is interesting, but the lack of other condis denys its viability. A possible solution would be to move condition application from the Jagged Mind trait to the dagger itself. Jagged Mind then would possibly only buff the Bladesongs. People complained already in the EoD beta that condi Virtuoso is created by a single trait, and now could be a good time to change that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said: Does the Daze duration stack with all the clones giving it? If Mirage can guarantee enemies get permanently Dazed there is less than zero chance that it will survive into release. People already complained to much about the invulnerability of Mirage's. Imagine if there's no way you can ever attack them. daze lasts 0/25s, it doesnt stack but each application will refresh it, I suspect with IH the dazing would be VERY annyoing but still weak. Keep in mind new CC overrides old CC, and since it has long cast time and long clone delay + travel time, it will take long time before it actually connects. If teammate lands 3s stun and your clone dazes for 0.25s ... that 3s stun is overriden by the daze. Its not as good as people think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Let's not overreact, the daze is not as strong. It's just an interrupt basically, and can be used to proc some of the interrupt effects if you happen to land it. Just because the clones can also cast it, doesn't mean you can suddenly perma daze someone. Other classes have far more annyoing interrupts, stuns, immobilizes and dazes than this, and they're treated as fine. Don't bury the skill before it gets a chance to be used at least. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Lol I tested it with dagger shield in chaos traitline, it is too strong. Being able to reset my weapon CD while perma dazing people it is extremely strong and i rather it nerfed then nerfing anything else that could affect all mesmer specs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Just now, Salt Mode.3780 said: Lol I tested it with dagger shield in chaos traitline, it is too strong. Being able to reset my weapon CD while perma dazing people it is extremely strong and i rather it nerfed then nerfing anything else that could affect all mesmer specs. How do you perma daze them? Share the build. 😄 I wanna have some fun before it's nerfed. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Veprovina.4876 said: How do you perma daze them? Share the build. 😄 I wanna have some fun before it's nerfed. 😄 its literally just have 3 clones up and just use the ambush with IH the daze isnt long enough and the whole point is the reapplication of it, you dont need the daze to be long you just need to keep interrupting them Edited June 30, 2023 by Salt Mode.3780 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkizzle.2157 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 34 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said: daze lasts 0/25s, it doesnt stack but each application will refresh it, I suspect with IH the dazing would be VERY annyoing but still weak. Keep in mind new CC overrides old CC, and since it has long cast time and long clone delay + travel time, it will take long time before it actually connects. If teammate lands 3s stun and your clone dazes for 0.25s ... that 3s stun is overriden by the daze. Its not as good as people think. The delay on the clones may actually make it stronger. You'll get your daze then your target will be trying to activate another skill right after they're out of the Daze at which point your slower clones attack will land interrupting it. Then you'll be coming with another set of ambushes within another second or two. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightlynx.2815 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: As a Mesmer main and I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this because finally, Mesmers have something good, but as my main class I rather call out the nerfs then other people and Devs nerfing more than intended because of all these Mesmer haters. Dagger ambush is absolutely too strong with IH trait. It is basically P/PD thief build for but Mesmer. It is a free F3 spam ranged and can be casted backwards while all clones benefit from the daze as well. As much as I would love to see this live I know the Mesmer haters would call this out in a few weeks asking Mesmers to be nerfed to the ground and touch something else unintended. Don't go live with the dagger on Mirage. don't worry. they'll nerf it into the ground because otherwise it would mean mirage has a viable build and they hate mesmers 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, midnightlynx.2815 said: don't worry. they'll nerf it into the ground because otherwise it would mean mirage has a viable build and they hate mesmers true very true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: its literally just have 3 clones up and just use the ambush with IH the daze isnt long enough and the whole point is the reapplication of it, you dont need the daze to be long you just need to keep interrupting them Ah, i see. I'll try it in WvW. Though, with so much blocks, aegis and invuln, i doubt it's going to be that strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruinedEclipse.7896 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) As someone who just came back after a few months, I literally spent so much time and energy on both my virtuoso and mirage builds only to come back and see this. It's rough. It's really rough. I'm not sure what the mindset is specifically behind nerfing mirage's dodge when that's literally the point of mirage, and making Blateturn Requiem not block anymore just is... I don't get why? Is it too overpowered in your eyes? is the cooldown too fast? I don't get it. I just want to be able to play and have fun, not completely re-work all my reflexes when it comes to damage taking and dodging. I'm a mostly PvE player who only just got into fractals and learning strike missions before i took a break and now this? I built all this ascended armor for these and now people are saying that they aren't viable in strikes or anything anymore? 😞 I know i'm a filthy casual but i *want* to learn more about how to play but when you change stuff like this so drastically it's difficult. The gatekeeping for learning strikes is enough but now re-learning my own kit? 😐 Sorry, i know this is meant for the new stuff, but it looks like you guys aren't taking any people's thoughts as is, so... (maybe im just misunderstanding, really. but really...) Edited June 30, 2023 by ruinedEclipse.7896 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 It is good to have axe always available. It is a solid condi weapon. We may even see some meta condi chrono builds. Dagger works alright outside Virt. Unlikely to be meta though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Shield virtuoso and dagger mirage are great for competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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