Maximum possible stealth duration build

[Antrix.4512]

Hey everyone 🥰

I am looking to build a Thief centered around achieving the longest possible stealth duration. My main focus is not to deal damage but to effectively utilize stealth for mobility and traversing across the various locations. I'm not concerned about gear, runes, sigils, etc., contributing to my damage output, as this isn't a priority at all. The main goal is to extend the duration of stealth as much as possible.

I am ready to invest in any necessary equipment or upgrades regardless of cost. So, I kindly ask for your advice on the best equipment, traits, skills, and strategies that I can use to accomplish this. Yesterday I dabbled with a similar build for my Mesmer, but managed to squeeze a maximum of 38-40 seconds on Chrono. Now I want to try and do the same with Thief, but with your help with the build and selecting gear exclusively for these purposes (the build will be in a separate cell strictly for these needs).

Thank you in advance for your suggestions and insights!

[Bern.9613]

With ANet's constant genocide and dismantling of thief, I'd be surprised if you get more then 12-15 secs. ANet feels stealth is over powered but only on thief, everyone else can have huge amounts, just not thief. So basically the gutting of shadow arts (Josh Davis: Shadow arts is a source of frustrating game play in pvp and wvw), increase in initiative costs, decreased stealth base = good luck. And if you do succeed in getting a healthy chunk of stealth time, for the love of god don't post it here. It will have the "balance team" twisting into pretzels.

[Antrix.4512]

1 hour ago, Bern.9613 said:

With ANet's constant genocide and dismantling of thief, I'd be surprised if you get more then 12-15 secs. ANet feels stealth is over powered but only on thief, everyone else can have huge amounts, just not thief. So basically the gutting of shadow arts (Josh Davis: Shadow arts is a source of frustrating game play in pvp and wvw), increase in initiative costs, decreased stealth base = good luck. And if you do succeed in getting a healthy chunk of stealth time, for the love of god don't post it here. It will have the "balance team" twisting into pretzels.

Wow, wow, wow, wait a minute. Let me clarify just in case... we're talking about the Thief right now, am I right? I didn't get the profession forum section wrong? We are currently discussing the Thief, whose fundamental concept is built around stealth? So... and other classes can literally stay stealthed longer than a Thief? This is just unbelievable 🤣. What the? What's wrong with this game? Why does everything have to be upside down in GW2? Meh.. too many questions. I can't understand why I'm still playing this.

If anyone from the 'balancers' team is reading this - delete all classes and mechanics, leave only open-world jumping puzzles. At least there will be less chance for you to break something. I've heard that the administration is very touchy about such words addressed to them, but I generally don't care.

UPD: Today I managed to squeeze almost two minutes out of Mesmer (38 seconds right after pressing all abilities and then refreshing abilities as the cooldown resets).

Edited June 29, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Vidit.7108]

I believe you just leap through a smoke field and always be stealthed as long as you don't hit anything with your leap. This in combo with your stealth utilities. 

IIRC there is a limit to how much stealth duration you can have at any one time similar to boons. It follows some weird rule like 5 seconds per source of stealth for like a max of 20 or 30 seconds. (pulses are each a different "source", I.E. Shadow refuge)  In terms of like stacking stealth ontop of itself to get the most out of it as soon as they catch you flaunting over a minute in stealth you'll be lucky if it's not removed.

There aren't really traits anymore that directly impact stealth duration other than regaining initiative as fast as possible. At least not outside of combat. 

[Antrix.4512]

7 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I believe you just leap through a smoke field and always be stealthed as long as you don't hit anything with your leap. This in combo with your stealth utilities. 

IIRC there is a limit to how much stealth duration you can have at any one time similar to boons. It follows some weird rule like 5 seconds per source of stealth for like a max of 20 or 30 seconds. (pulses are each a different "source", I.E. Shadow refuge)  In terms of like stacking stealth ontop of itself to get the most out of it as soon as they catch you flaunting over a minute in stealth you'll be lucky if it's not removed.

There aren't really traits anymore that directly impact stealth duration other than regaining initiative as fast as possible. At least not outside of combat. 

Well, for now, I really can't do anything with the stealth on Thief, it totals to about 15 seconds + 3 sec on Shadow Meld re-use + 6 sec with double dodge, and it's much more cumbersome to achieve than on Mesmer. Right at this moment, I'm testing various options and yes, indeed - the duration of stealth is practically negligible and requires much more effort.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Vidit.7108]

The go-to is either heartseeker for a leap, or clusterbomb for a blast finisher into black powder or smoke screen. and then the other utilities in between.

[Antrix.4512]

Well, to be brief - nothing really worked out. And somehow all this still feels odd and wrong. I'm reading the neighboring threads - people are happy that the damage has been increased, and I'm sitting here thinking... why do I need damage if the class can't properly do what it is supposed to do by its nature? Why do I need another warrior, dealing tons of damage but with different weapons and slightly different skills? Either I didn't understand the logic of professions in this game, or even the developers themselves didn't understand it at all. And the more I delve into the game mechanics, the stronger and more intense the feeling of inadequacy of everything that's happening in GW2 becomes.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Bazsi.2734]

6 hours ago, Antrix.4512 said:

Hey everyone 🥰

I am looking to build a Thief centered around achieving the longest possible stealth duration. My main focus is not to deal damage but to effectively utilize stealth for mobility and traversing across the various locations. I'm not concerned about gear, runes, sigils, etc., contributing to my damage output, as this isn't a priority at all. The main goal is to extend the duration of stealth as much as possible.

I am ready to invest in any necessary equipment or upgrades regardless of cost. So, I kindly ask for your advice on the best equipment, traits, skills, and strategies that I can use to accomplish this. Yesterday I dabbled with a similar build for my Mesmer, but managed to squeeze a maximum of 38-40 seconds on Chrono. Now I want to try and do the same with Thief, but with your help with the build and selecting gear exclusively for these purposes (the build will be in a separate cell strictly for these needs).

Thank you in advance for your suggestions and insights!

Here is the minimalist way to permastealth, trickery required: Dagger/Pistol on one set, and Shortbow on the other if you want to stealth the entire team, not just yourself:

Black_Powder -> Blast/leap it with weapon skills 4 times. Repeat exactly when stealth is about to run out.

You can supplement your other skills when you fail to execute this perfectly. Just keep in mind stealth caps out at 5 stacks (15 seconds), so do not waste resources once you hit the cap.

30 minutes ago, Antrix.4512 said:

Well, to be brief - nothing really worked out. And somehow all this still feels odd and wrong. I'm reading the neighboring threads - people are happy that the damage has been increased, and I'm sitting here thinking... why do I need damage if the class can't properly do what it is supposed to do by its nature? Why do I need another warrior, dealing tons of damage but with different weapons and slightly different skills? Either I didn't understand the logic of professions in this game, or even the developers themselves didn't understand it at all. And the more I delve into the game mechanics, the stronger and more intense the feeling of inadequacy of everything that's happening in GW2 becomes.

However, you just posted this while I was typing that "long guide" to permastealthing, so what is the thing you are trying to do?

[Antrix.4512]

1 minute ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

However, you just posted this while I was typing that "long guide" to permastealthing, so what is the thing you are trying to do?

I prefer a solo style of gameplay, exploring the world, farming achievements, various interesting things, and so on. Often I have to run through crowds of mobs, I'm too lazy to fight them, especially when multiple runs are required, for example in dungeons, etc. Initially, I completed some storylines with my thief, but now I've moved on to what I described above. While I was going through personal stories and LWS's, I thought there wouldn't be any issues with stealth, after all, this is a Thief, it's kind of obvious that his stealth is better than other classes. And today, I faced the harsh reality when it came down to a stealth build.

And please, I'd be extremely grateful for your "long guide", I think many people will find it interesting (especially the devs, lol), in fact, and your effort won't be in vain. Right now, I'm extremely tired (as well as disappointed) and maybe I'm doing a lot of things a little wrong, which is why my stealth isn't nearly as good as it is on my Mesmer, and I'd be very glad if the problem will at least be partially solved because it's a shame to leave this character on the shelf.

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Antrix.4512 said:

I prefer a solo style of gameplay, exploring the world, farming achievements, various interesting things, and so on. Often I have to run through crowds of mobs, I'm too lazy to fight them, especially when multiple runs are required, for example in dungeons, etc. Initially, I completed some storylines with my thief, but now I've moved on to what I described above. While I was going through personal stories and LWS's, I thought there wouldn't be any issues with stealth, after all, this is a Thief, it's kind of obvious that his stealth is better than other classes. And today, I faced the harsh reality when it came down to a stealth build.

And please, I'd be extremely grateful for your "long guide", I think many people will find it interesting (especially the devs, lol), in fact, and your effort won't be in vain. Right now, I'm extremely tired (as well as disappointed) and maybe I'm doing a lot of things a little wrong, which is why my stealth isn't nearly as good as it is on my Mesmer, and I'd be very glad if the problem will at least be partially solved because it's a shame to leave this character on the shelf.

Here is a rotation I just made with basicly no trait interactions:
1. Black_Powder -> leap with Heartseeker 4 times. As I said before, trickery required. 
2. Smoke_Screen-> leap with Heartseeker 4 times. Follow up with Hide_in_Shadows.
3. Black_Powder -> leap with Heartseeker 3 times, Blinding_Powder before the smokefield ends for an extra blast.
4. Shadow_Refuge
This can keep you in stealth endlessly if you time your skills right, start the next step as stealth is about to drop.

This can be considerably easier if you use traits for initative management or extra sources of stealth(like deadeye). However I don't get why you'd want perfect permastealth. The whole idea around SA is to do quick bursts of stealth and let said stealth drop(either by revealing yourself or just let it expire), and the trait interactions reward you with initative, superspeed, condicleanses etc... mobs can't really target you unless you're visible for several seconds. Running past them is still possible if you left stealth drop for a second sometimes.

So while permastealth is possible, you're not really meant to do that. I don't get why you want to do it. It's like playing the game without playing it... the only good thing about GW2 is the combat system.
 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[Antrix.4512]

25 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Here is a rotation I just made with basicly no trait interactions:
1. Black_Powder -> leap with Heartseeker 4 times. As I said before, trickery required. 
2. Smoke_Screen-> leap with Heartseeker 4 times. Follow up with Hide_in_Shadows.
3. Black_Powder -> leap with Heartseeker 3 times, Blinding_Powder before the smokefield ends for an extra blast.
4. Shadow_Refuge
This can keep you in stealth endlessly if you time your skills right, start the next step as stealth is about to drop.

This can be considerably easier if you use traits for initative management or extra sources of stealth(like deadeye). However I don't get why you'd want perfect permastealth. The whole idea around SA is to do quick bursts of stealth and let said stealth drop(either by revealing yourself or just let it expire), and the trait interactions reward you with initative, superspeed, condicleanses etc... mobs can't really target you unless you're visible for several seconds. Running past them is still possible if you left stealth drop for a second sometimes.

So while permastealth is possible, you're not really meant to do that. I don't get why you want to do it. It's like playing the game without playing it... the only good thing about GW2 is the combat system.
 

I've just managed to pull this off in a slightly different way. Yes, it is incredibly inconvenient, but it is possible. I originally thought that stealth would be as comfortable as on a mesmer (stacking up to 40 seconds within a few seconds, which is generally enough to run through an unnecessary section of the location). And now I fully understand your question about why I need this, because on a thief, this is BRUTALLY INCONVENIENT. It's indeed easier to go through with a fight than to resort to such manipulations. Here's how I did it:

- Stack up with utilities (Shadow Refuge, Shadow Meld, Hide in Shadows).
- Stack up with dodges (Silent Scope + Rifle, Signet of Agility).
- Switch weapons to dagger/pistol.
- Black Powder + Heartseeker.

From there, occasionally refresh the stacks as the cooldown on skills resets and clear out dodges so they don't accumulate, plus the combo.

As a result, with these manipulations, I was able to maintain permanent stealth, never letting it drop to a "flashing" state. But this is just ridiculous, it's very cumbersome, it's uncomfortable, it's TERRIBLE, it's unbearably silly and pointless. So yes, for this kind of farming where I'll need to stealth for crossing sections, I'll be using a Mesmer. It's much more convenient, easier, and simpler. As for the thief... Well, what is a thief? It's just another warrior, but with different guns and skills, no real difference in essence.

Your method works too and thank you for it. But anyway, they are both inconvenient, and I don't know what kind of masochist will go through such things. I'm genuinely at a loss for words, all that's left are my thoughts about this whole situation, but they are far too explicit to put into words.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Antrix.4512]

My goodness, what am I doing? In a few hours, I'll have gone nearly 24 hours without sleep, and here I am, trying to figure out how to maintain stealth on a class that, in reality, should never have to leave it. 

 

[bq pd.2148]

stealth even before the SA changes (and for competitive modes silent scope changes) did require some rotations to maintain.

in pve even in dungeon skips you dont really need 40s stealth at any time to skip a group of mobs, the inconvenience mainly comes from having to stop for smoke + leap combo or for shadow refuge.

 

for options without having to halt your movement in order of personal priority:

• using endurance regen food  will get you already slightly over 40% stealth uptime from just dodge on rifle with silent scope.  this alone should get you past most groups when combined with shadowsteps or other mobility options like choya pinata tonic or executioner axe toy
• if you can affort to be in combat: mark an enemy with sleight of hand traited, the daze will put you in combat without revealing you, this allows you to use energy sigils either with double rifle or trigger it on a single rifle by using bundle items, easiest here would be a kite novelty as you can keybind it.  this gives you another 33% stealth uptime on the move.
• your heal skill can extend this a bit at times for another 10% stealth uptime
• shadow meld 6,666% stealth uptime is terrible, but when only used in bursts for rare moments when you actually need more stealth is good.
• shadow gust for 10% uptime can reveal you if you hit an enemy , blinding powder 7,5% uptime can put you in combat if you blind an enemy, these however compete with other utility and shadowsteps you might want instead

and if after all this you still want more stealth but dont want to halt your movement, you can pay for stealth with something like:

• harpy feathers  50% stealth uptime
• ash spy kit not stealth but 10s camouflage, thus it breaks when you move but great to grab a guarded hero point.
• order kit 5% stealth uptime for an additional stealth extension that you shouldnt really need as thief, more for stealthless classes to bridge harpy feather cooldown.

 

overall thief especially in pve has enough stealth, considering the DD p/p builds currently in wvw i suppose one could increase silent scope back to 3s (was nerfed to 1s before SA changes) to bring them on par, but then again: why would you play a thief in current wvw anyway?

Edited June 29, 2023 by bq pd.2148

[iminxi.8514]

Its called mesmer xD

[Antrix.4512]

7 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

overall thief especially in pve has enough stealth, considering the DD p/p builds currently in wvw i suppose one could increase silent scope back to 3s (was nerfed to 1s before SA changes) to bring them on par, but then again: why would you play a thief in current wvw anyway?

Yes, I spent a lot of time on this yesterday (today?) and even managed to get accustomed to it and move around relatively "comfortably" (key word - relatively). But then I just dropped it. I see no point in it. And no, it's not that I don't see the point in needing stealth for occasional bypasses, I don't see the point in using this class for these purposes. Why should I when Mesmer can stack 40 seconds (which is more than enough for me, and if necessary, I can stack up to two minutes) of stealth, and the whole procedure takes only 3-4 seconds ONCE, and then I don't have to twitch like a [censored] epileptic all the way, jumping around, performing a bunch of [censored] combos and other unnecessary actions, or replacing my buff from quite expensive food with endurance food. I'm starting to get used to the fact that seeking logic in this game is pointless. And I don't know if the question was rhetorical, but I despise PvP with every fiber of my being, playing only OW, farming, achievements (not gdrindy, only interesting ones) etc 🙂

[Bern.9613]

23 hours ago, Antrix.4512 said:

Yes, I spent a lot of time on this yesterday (today?) and even managed to get accustomed to it and move around relatively "comfortably" (key word - relatively). But then I just dropped it. I see no point in it. And no, it's not that I don't see the point in needing stealth for occasional bypasses, I don't see the point in using this class for these purposes. Why should I when Mesmer can stack 40 seconds (which is more than enough for me, and if necessary, I can stack up to two minutes) of stealth, and the whole procedure takes only 3-4 seconds ONCE, and then I don't have to twitch like a [censored] epileptic all the way, jumping around, performing a bunch of [censored] combos and other unnecessary actions, or replacing my buff from quite expensive food with endurance food. I'm starting to get used to the fact that seeking logic in this game is pointless. And I don't know if the question was rhetorical, but I despise PvP with every fiber of my being, playing only OW, farming, achievements (not gdrindy, only interesting ones) etc 🙂

Bet you saw my post and thought I was just salty. So how did that workout for you? Yes one would think a stealth class, a class that needs stealth for their power hit, would be able to produce stealth for days. I especially like how other players make excuses and twist themselves into pretzels to justify the genocide of the thief. And if you think you can just keep jumping through hoops of smoke fields to sustain perma-stealth, you can't. Initiative costs and regen were increased a long time ago to stop just that. Just remember, stealth is op.

 

 

 

 

Only on thief

[Antrix.4512]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:14 PM, Bern.9613 said:

Bet you saw my post and thought I was just salty. So how did that workout for you? Yes one would think a stealth class, a class that needs stealth for their power hit, would be able to produce stealth for days. I especially like how other players make excuses and twist themselves into pretzels to justify the genocide of the thief. And if you think you can just keep jumping through hoops of smoke fields to sustain perma-stealth, you can't. Initiative costs and regen were increased a long time ago to stop just that. Just remember, stealth is op.

 

Sorry, unexpected circumstances happened with my account XD Yes, of course, I saw your post, and no - I didn't think you were salty)) As I mentioned above, I managed to maintain permanent stealth, but it's VERY uncomfortable. I still think that thief is quite an interesting class, but I don't need him as a runner for farming, for that I now use my Mesmer. No, the thief is definitely an interesting class, no dispute there, but think about it - why should I twist myself and carry out incredibly inconvenient manipulations to maintain stealth 10-15 sec stealth (15 sec max limit, dunno why), when on my Mesmer I can just press the rotation ONCE and it'll take 4 seconds and get almost 40 seconds of stealth, which is more than enough for me (during this time I will run even the longest of my routes that I use in farming), and if necessary - before the 40 seconds expire several abilities will already be off cooldown and I'll just press some of them again, thus bringing invisibility almost up to a minute, or maybe more (and that's without playing around with alacrity gear and the other stuff).

But yes, I don't understand why some people try to justify such changes in the thief class, and I'll never understand or accept ANY arguments in this regard. For me, the thief class will always be someone who can interact with stealth natively, without various gimmicks.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:14 AM, Antrix.4512 said:

Wow, wow, wow, wait a minute. Let me clarify just in case... we're talking about the Thief right now, am I right? I didn't get the profession forum section wrong? We are currently discussing the Thief, whose fundamental concept is built around stealth? So... and other classes can literally stay stealthed longer than a Thief? This is just unbelievable 🤣. What the? What's wrong with this game? Why does everything have to be upside down in GW2? Meh.. too many questions. I can't understand why I'm still playing this.

If anyone from the 'balancers' team is reading this - delete all classes and mechanics, leave only open-world jumping puzzles. At least there will be less chance for you to break something. I've heard that the administration is very touchy about such words addressed to them, but I generally don't care.

UPD: Today I managed to squeeze almost two minutes out of Mesmer (38 seconds right after pressing all abilities and then refreshing abilities as the cooldown resets).

this guy is asking the kitten right question Anet, listen to him 😂

black power stealth spamming is the reason why all stealth abilities of thief got nerfed time and time again, while the real issue (smoke combo) wasn’t actually addressed because it would also effect other professions, we don’t know when somebody at the balance team is finally able to see through that and suggest to adjust this but until that we have to „abuse“ our smoke fields to get some kind of mediocre invis uptime.

ps: i still miss my 7sec Hide in Shadow

[DeceiverX.8361]

I mean, you're kind of making up the whole permastealth concept being a core part of the class and trying to force the class into that idea versus what the reality is supposed to be.  This isn't a sneaky class like from WoW that just passively sneaks around invisible.  From the class description:

Quote

Thief is a profession of masters of shadows and assassination who use Steal and initiative as their profession mechanics. With Steal, thieves teleport to their target and create a makeshift weapon derived from that enemy to gain the upper hand. Weapon skills of thieves have no recharge and instead use initiative as the resource for quick bursts of damage. Thieves are elusive and hard to catch, teleporting through the shadows by shadowstepping. They are experts in stealth, becoming fully invisible to then surprise their enemies with a powerful Stealth Attack unique to each of their weapons. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor.

The point is to be invisible for attacks as to be deceptive and unpredictable, not to just sneak by everyone all the time, which the new SA traitline masterfully achieves and considerably buffed aggressive, in-and-out attacking/aggressive play.  I understand you want that fantasy of sneaking by things, but you're not engaging with the content in doing so, and this historically was a massive issue in the competitive modes wherein thieves who stacked stealth just couldn't be killed without very deliberate and aggressive hard-counter mechanics that are not fun for any other type of thief gameplay and not fun for any of their opponents to have to run specifically to deal with some thieves.

Worth also noting that stacked stealth has and has always had a maximum duration of 15 contiguous seconds as an effect.  This is to force a small degree of combat clarity in competitive modes so that you can see an effect field on the ground to know a thief is even present in the vicinity.  You can re-stack it as many times as you want before the "Stealth" effect expires without exiting stealth, but if you do something like cast Shadow Refuge + Hide in Shadows + Black Powder + Blinding Power + Heartseeker multiple times all in rapid succession, you will never exceed the effect duration of 15 seconds; you need to stagger these effects over a long period of time, instead.

You can still do all sorts of sneaky stuff.  Most spawns are spread out enough to let players have a reprieve from combat where needed.  Use that to regenerate initiative and wait on your cooldowns.  If you want to RP as some kind of infiltrator, plan your sneaking with line of sight against a given group of enemies or something.

Otherwise, engage with the content as intended.  Permastealth was never really intended or featured as part of the class, even dating all the way back to before the game launched with the class trailers; the first demos and trailers all featured the thief constantly weaving in and out of stealth to attack a foe from different angles and confound them.

It's literally why I chose my account name as Deceiver over ten years ago.

[bq pd.2148]

3 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Worth also noting that stacked stealth has and has always had a maximum duration of 15 contiguous seconds as an effect.

I am pretty sure its 5 stacks of stealth not a 15s hard limit. ofc now with most instances being 3s on thief that would be 15s, was more with old SA. edit: mesmer still uses a different effect that can be stacked 9 times, so doesn't matter here.

Further i am fairly certain that anet doesn't care that much about combat clarity when it comes to stealth stacking on a single character as utilities etc are less noisy and visible, the combo field and mass invis are very visible/noisy as they provide group stealth options, that is where combat clarity matters more. It is less resource intensive to permastealth a group (for the group as opposed to permastealth oneself for solo) but a lot more deadly.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by bq pd.2148

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Thief stealth was nerfed for a good reason.

Thieves get tons of power from stealth by the grace of their profession mechanic (stealth attacks) and traits.
Damage, healing , supporting, you name it - stealth boosts it if you're a thief.

Most other profession simply get stealth from stealth and nothing else. That's why they're less restrictive.
I suggest a mesmer for chilled stealth roaming. Easy stealth, apllies it on the go and has no problem keeping whol groups invisible with no weird hoops to jump through.

Edited July 4, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[bq pd.2148]

3 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Thief stealth was nerfed for a good reason.

Thieves get tons of power from stealth by the grace of their profession mechanic (stealth attacks) and traits.
Damage, healing , supporting, you name it - stealth provides it if you're a thief.

Most other profession simply get stealth from stealth and nothing else. That's why they're less restrictive.

odd reasoning there, mesmer should have very few CC skills because they have too many traits affecting it then?

[DeceiverX.8361]

12 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

I am pretty sure its 5 stacks of stealth not a 15s hard limit. ofc now with most instances being 3s on thief that would be 15s, was more with old SA. edit: mesmer still uses a different effect that can be stacked 9 times, so doesn't matter here.

Further i am fairly certain that anet doesn't care that much about combat clarity when it comes to stealth stacking on a single character as utilities etc are less noisy and visible, the combo field and mass invis are very visible/noisy as they provide group stealth options, that is where combat clarity matters more. It is less resource intensive to permastealth a group (for the group as opposed to permastealth oneself for solo) but a lot more deadly.

 

If that was intended it was bugged for years.  It used to still be a 15s cap even with the traited 4s duration.  Refuge with HiS cast on the expiring pulse would not go beyond 15 seconds despite it providing 20s in terms of abilities as-of-cast, and it's worked this way with BP/BlP/HS as well since as far as I remember.

As for combat clarity, you can't maintain permanent stealth uptime and have never been able to do so on any kit without there being in indicator at some point in the rotation.  Just because some skills have no or low readability doesn't mean the entire nature of permanent stealth uptime doesn't require some indicator.

A thief casting B/P+HS won't be visible or targetable, but it still demonstrates that the thief is there due to the enemy smoke field being on the ground.

Edited July 4, 2023 by DeceiverX.8361

[bq pd.2148]

10 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

If that was intended it was bugged for years.  It used to still be a 15s cap even with the traited 4s duration.  Refuge with HiS cast on the expiring pulse would not go beyond 15 seconds despite it providing 20s in terms of abilities as-of-cast, and it's worked this way with BP/BlP/HS as well since as far as I remember.

i am certain that i had more than 15s with silent scope in the stacks when it was traited 4s, after posting yesterday i went on engi to verify that it still holds up and was also able to stack it above 15s, engi thrown elixir S is up to 6s stealth, but sure it might have been bugged at some time i dont know.

10 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

As for combat clarity, you can't maintain permanent stealth uptime and have never been able to do so on any kit without there being in indicator at some point in the rotation.  Just because some skills have no or low readability doesn't mean the entire nature of permanent stealth uptime doesn't require some indicator.

that is true to an extend, however i used to do the following at a time back when i hid in enemy keeps to flip them back, with traited 4s silent scope, 40% endurance food:

1. get in combat with a lord
2. spamm dodge + energy sigil right under the lord
3. trait acrobatics for vigor on heal to get a bit more endurance at times, use withdraw to get the vigor

that was enough for permastealth and the only indicator after the initial arrival was a rare random voice line for gaining vigor, that is indeed an indicator yet pretty close to none and i suppose i am fine with that being nerfed, afterall the patch that nerfed it the first time gave thieves portals so i didnt have to stay inside anymore 😉

Edited July 5, 2023 by bq pd.2148

[xlalax.4821]

Well not sure if mentioned.

 

TLDR:

All you need is a dagger off hand and a rifle

 

Dagger 5 on any NPC each 2.9 sec or dagger 5 on WvW Walls to perma stealth ...

 

Rifle place sniper cover below you and hit 4 again, before stealth finish dodge place sniper again and 4 can do it forever.