So Relics will be vertical progression, power creep and pay to win? [Merged]

[DeathPanel.8362]

2 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

That's arguable. But either way, the game decisions are based on feelings. We already know that from leaked behind the scenes conversations. Opinions are feelings.

Opinions are formed from knowledge, not feelings.

 

3 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

The last page or 2 of this thread had mostly been us 3 or 4. But nowhere near the majority of the several different threads. I mean, you account for 40% of the posts on this page (edit: page 15), but obviously isn't representative of the 40+ pages on the topic

This is just nitpicking.  The bottom line is 3-4 vocal people predominantly post in these threads about their grievances with the rest either not agreeing with them or just tacitly commenting and leaving.

[Sreoom.3690]

This thread has devolved to the haves and have nots.   

I believe this change impacts everyone...even the vast majority of the 18 million players who do not have Legendary Runes (full disclosure, I have 7 Legendary Runes).

...all rune sets will lose their value once the 6th stat is moved to the Relic system. 

This will cause everyone to go through the motions (i.e. grind) in order to gain back something they already had.

People with legendary runes (and aromor and weapons) crafted them to minimize the impacts the balance patches bring.

[idpersona.3810]

14 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

Opinions are formed from knowledge, not feelings.

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages

o·pin·ion

noun

noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

14 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

This is just nitpicking.  The bottom line is 3-4 vocal people predominantly post in these threads about their grievances with the rest either not agreeing with them or just tacitly commenting and leaving.

I disagree. I think there are many more people than 3 or 4 that want more information.
But I also don't see the point in continuing this conversation. So good luck and I hope you enjoy the game.

[Geralt.7519]

51 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

Am I wrong?

I don't know, I'm one of those requiring explanations, remember?

[DeathPanel.8362]

26 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I disagree. I think there are many more people than 3 or 4 that want more information

I never said there are only 3-4 people.  Just 3-4 vocal people repeatedly post which inflates the counts and make it seem like more people. Information on how legendaries operate already exists in common knowledge.  ANET doesn't need to provide new information.  

This isn't a problem with people needing more information.  This is a problem with people expecting things that were never promised.

[DeathPanel.8362]

7 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

I don't know, I'm one of those requiring explanations, remember?

And I gave you the explanations.  Repeatedly.  The answers to your questions already exist in common knowledge.  Legendary Runes were never created to make it so you never have to pay for gearing ANOTHER gear slot.  How hard is this to understand?

[Doggie.3184]

Can we also change the name "Relic" so something more unique since we already have that as fractal currency?

[Geralt.7519]

1 hour ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

And I gave you the explanations.  Repeatedly

Do you work for Anet? No? Then your "explanations" are nothing more than your own personal opinions and while you do have the right to have them, they're not more valid than anyone else's.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Geralt.7519

[DeathPanel.8362]

13 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

Do you work for Anet? No? Then your "explanations" are nothing more than your own personal opinions and while you do have the right to have them, they're not more valid than anyone else's.

I don't need to work for ANET to point at published information already common knowledge.  It's a fact that ANET has never promised they will never change runes or that they'll never implement a new gear slot that has effects from runes shifted into it.  You're free to prove me wrong by citing it of course.  I won't hold my breath.

Edited July 7, 2023 by DeathPanel.8362
typo

[Geralt.7519]

8 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I don't need to work for ANET to point at published information already common knowledge.  It's a fact that ANET has never promised they will never change runes or that they'll never implement a new gear slot that has effects from runes shifted into it.  You're free to prove me wrong by citing it of course.  I won't hold my breath.

ANET themselves just said they will clarify things for us, there would be no need if we had all the answer already.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I don't need any clarification from ANET.  Things are very clear as is.  ANET never promised runes will never change or that they'll never implement new gear slots which may have some rune effects shifted to them.  This is just an objective fact that needs no clarification.

So, you think this is the worst case scenario (specifically, that any protection legendaries (all legendaries, not just runes, because this kind of reasoning may be used on all pieces of gear) might have had against gear changes does not in fact exist), you just think it's perfectly fine?

Also, again, this very same approach can be used to circumvent the no level raise and no higher gear tier promises - because while Anet did promise there won't be level cap upgrade, nor a new gear tier better than ascended, they never actually promised not to delevel everyone or downgrade posessed gear by a tier. Following your way of thinking all those cases would also be fine.

[DeathPanel.8362]

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, you think this is the worst case scenario (specifically, that any protection legendaries (all legendaries, not just runes, because this kind of reasoning may be used on all pieces of gear) might have had against gear changes does not in fact exist), you just think it's perfectly fine?

Also, again, this very same approach can be used to circumvent the no level raise and no higher gear tier promises - because while Anet did promise there won't be level cap upgrade, nor a new gear tier better than ascended, they never actually promised not to delevel everyone or downgrade posessed gear by a tier. Following your way of thinking all those cases would also be fine.

I'm saying people shouldn't have expectations of things that were never promised because the gap between expectation and reality is where resentment is born.

[DeathPanel.8362]

40 minutes ago, Geralt.7519 said:

ANET themselves just said they will clarify things for us, there would be no need if we had all the answer already.

 

My point was that they never promised runes were never going to change or that they'd never make a new gear slot.  Their promised clarification had nothing to do with my point.

You're confusing the two things.

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Geralt.7519 said:

If you resort to personal attacks it means you have no valid argument to support your opinions, you're just spitting out words for the sake of it.

Indeed.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

My point was that they never promised runes were never going to change or that they'd never make a new gear slot.  Their promised clarification had nothing to do with my point.

You're confusing the two things.

They did however set a presedent when they upgraded exotic legendary character bound weapons into same stats as ascended and account bound ones since they were always meant to be bis.

By that presedent they should upgrade the runes to include a relic aswell.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Linken.6345

[DeathPanel.8362]

13 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

They did however set a presedent when they upgraded exotic legendary character bound weapons into same stats as ascended and account bound ones since they were always meant to be bis.

By that presedent they should upgrade the runes to include a relic aswell.

That's because they promised that legendary equipment will always be the pinnacle equipment.

They never promised runes will never be modified or that new gear slots will never be added.

Could they do it?  Sure.  But I'm not going to operate as if I'm expecting them to do it.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

21 hours ago, Geralt.7519 said:

They are removing the set bonus from runes to move it to the relic slot.

Every single lvl 80 will lose the set bonus at Soto launch and people will have to grind the new relics for every single build on every single char they have, to get back what they have now.

Please explain to me how this is not vertical gear progression.

there's no point because you will do what you already did with your quote... you'll pick out a sliver of what i say and ignore the rest. if you understood what i wrote... you'd understand that it's a change for everyone at level 60. (it's in the blog... but again, you're ignoring it) it's NOT vertical progression because it is a change. also, you ignored the part about getting different stat bonus in it's place on the rune. so it IS vertical progression in that it is an overall power (not the stat) boost. SEE? it can be argued either way / both ways.. which is what i did in my first post. 

PS: don't tell me how to interact with people on the forums. i don't have to explain kitten to you.

i won't interact with you anymore. /blocked.

[Geralt.7519]

5 minutes ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

there's no point because you will do what you already did with your quote... you'll pick out a sliver of what i say and ignore the rest. if you understood what i wrote... you'd understand that it's a change for everyone at level 60. (it's in the blog... but again, you're ignoring it) it's NOT vertical progression because it is a change. also, you ignored the part about getting different stat bonus in it's place on the rune. so it IS vertical progression in that it is an overall power (not the stat) boost. SEE? it can be argued either way / both ways.. which is what i did in my first post. 

PS: don't tell me how to interact with people on the forums. i don't have to explain kitten to you.

i won't interact with you anymore. /blocked.

You won't see this post but I'll answer anyway.

This game is 11 years old, most players got multiple max level chars by now, you can't conveniently ignore that and think only about leveling.

[Wolfyno.2704]

9 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

My point was that they never promised runes were never going to change or that they'd never make a new gear slot.  Their promised clarification had nothing to do with my point.

You're confusing the two things.

A silly comment here, but your way of thinking is setting a dangerous precedent, because by your logic, any change is allowed midway as long as it was not promised?

Examples:

- When you buy the game, you get 5 character slots, the way you put it, is that is fine if they take out 2 slots one day, and offer you an achievement to get them both back? since by your logic they never promised anything.

- You buy a wing skin for cloak from the Gem store, one day they add an additional slot and turn each wing filling a slot, for the sake of customization, but the twist now, you need to buy back or grind for the other the wing.

- You grind months, or even use gems to buy, for a 6 rune effect, you get it, then one day they take out that effect, for flexibility reasons, just to offer it back in a new slot ... and call it a new feature.

[Gazrul.3086]

The purpose of relics is to give us more ways to customise our characters, and free up more combinations. Also, we'll be able to get relics from pretty much anywhere. There's nothing wrong with giving us more options in my opinion. I do hope they'll also give us a legendary relic to work towards as well, and that it'll be easy to make. 

[Linken.6345]

1 minute ago, Chronardis.4028 said:

The purpose of relics is to give us more ways to customise our characters, and free up more combinations. Also, we'll be able to get relics from pretty much anywhere. There's nothing wrong with giving us more options in my opinion. I do hope they'll also give us a legendary relic to work towards as well, and that it'll be easy to make. 

Would that not invalidate the padding of content this relic system seem in place to introduce?

[DeathPanel.8362]

30 minutes ago, Wolfyno.2704 said:

A silly comment here, but your way of thinking is setting a dangerous precedent, because by your logic, any change is allowed midway as long as it was not promised?

Apparently, my stating that one shouldn't have expectations of something that was never promised to them is now setting a "dangerous precedent".  Now I've heard it all.

[Torvis.1365]

12 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

[...] My point was that they never promised runes were never going to change [...]

 

I never bought a rune, i bought a package consiting of
- QoL
- RuneStats
- RuneBonus (if 6+)
- LegendaryPromise by Anet

That was the status quo at that time.
Now they redefine what is a rune.

I bought a fully functional car, all fine. Then they remotely deactivate the engine, and they want to sell another one? You can still sit in your car? Really? Absurd! Package is broken.

What is next?

Three accounts here, playing with family. Everything on hold until clarification.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Torvis.1365

[Geralt.7519]

10 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

That's because they promised that legendary equipment will always be the pinnacle equipment.

They never promised runes will never be modified or that new gear slots will never be added.

Could they do it?  Sure.  But I'm not going to operate as if I'm expecting them to do it.

You said it yourself: they promised that legendary equipment will always be the pinnacle equipment.

Legendary runes are legendary, that is they promised will always be pinnacle.

Removing the set bonus from runes to put in on relics means legendary runes are not pinnacle anymore because to have exactly what you had before you now need runes+relics.

Giving a legendary relic to all those who have a set of leggy runes would solve the problem in that you would still have exactly what you had before.

If legendaries didn't exist, it wouldn't be such a huge problem, tho the problem still remains that they're breaking every build and adding gear progression to a game that was supposed to have no gear treadmill.

[Sreoom.3690]

Can we focus on the issue/topic and not start personal insults and arguing? 

Your childish arguments are polluting this thread.