Secrets of the Obscure or Guild Wars 3?

[ugrakarma.9416]

the LS model was unapropriate for Steam, because can sounds as scam for steam players.

many ppl predicted they gonna the model, so this is, is just about steam.

Edited July 20, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[Batalix.2873]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:50 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Conspiracy theorist deteced...

You take events and connect them to false information, which you then present as facts.

For instance, GW3 was never named as the game project that got cancelled, that's mere speculation on your end. Besides, all the changes they are making to the game would be a pointless endeavor if they didn't plan on running this game for at least another 10 years. And presenting the Eye of the North as a clear indicator that the game is nearing its end, when the IBS ended years ago and we just had a full-fledged expansion last year, is pretty paranoid, to be honest. 😉
 

 

On 7/16/2023 at 12:24 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

As many have already pointed out, it could also be another game (forgot its name). It would make zero sense to apply all these heavy changes to GW2 when a GW3 is already on the horizon.

It actually makes a lot of sense to be working GW2 up if GW3 is on the horizon. Not only to sustain revenue and preserve the IP while GW3 is in development for who knows how long, but merely to keep up a sort of continuity of interest in the property up and through a GW3 announcement. GW2 does have enough going for it, dated though it may be, to sustain some sort of old-guard nostalgia crowd long after GW3 launches ala FFXI (although it seriously needs to stop messing with the core combat/espec systems and trying to make them into "proto-GW3" to maintain that distinct market niche and appeal). And I would further argue that most of these changes, with only DirectX 11 being the biggest outlier, fall somewhere between futureproofing systems and aimless faffery as opposed to deliberate investments in the game's longevity. They feel more like ping-ponging indecision, back and forth, unsure of when and for how much longer they need to keep GW2 alive as GW3 continues to hit development speedbumps.

On 7/16/2023 at 1:10 AM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Because it's not "them" doing the new game.
When new game is made it's all hands on deck and full steam ahead.

Whereas once it's done, they fire as many as they can and keep skeletal crew for maintenance, updates and xpac creation if that's in the plans.

SotO and the new expansion model is already quite skeletal, just saying.

On 7/16/2023 at 8:45 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

I'm not convinced of that to be honest. I really have a hard time imagining what the point would be of such a game. Guild Wars in space?

Yes, in fact. Tyria is currently in the middle of a jade-tech revolution, not to mention the Asura are now free to play around with their old abandoned tech and I'm sure we will stumble on some old Orrian spaceships or something. But the jade tech globalization is inevitable, and they can't just repeat GW2's post-dragon-apocalyptic conceit of copypasting old map assets "but dragon-destroyed". It would be a bit too convenient to just throw the world back into a dark ages. So cyberpunk GW3 is actually a very real possibility and I think could add the needed freshness to the class system and updated action combat. Plus, if mist-travel technology also advances, that's really the perfect premise to design a lot of GW2/GW1 crossover content if they want to try integrating past eras of Tyria into a larger "extended universe" remaster trilogy to revitalize interest in past games and retain players with now "three times the content". Assuming they even have the ambition and budget to pull that off, but that would be a very impressive, "gaming has completed itself" feat. Ancient/medieval, renaissance/industrial, modern/future, a regular Helliconia in game format.

But also I could totally see that involving space travel to see where the Orrians came from.

On 7/16/2023 at 11:32 AM, Phasma Phasmatis.4305 said:

The only thing I've seen reported by legit sites is that NCsoft, and possibly Anet, are developing Sony's Horizon MMORPG, that's the established fantasy IP, and that NCsoft was hiring for a mobile card game based on the Guild Wars property on their job listing page. 

I don't see them making a GW3 while GW2 is still in the top 5 MMORPGs, its too risky financially your splitting the community between 2 games which could cause both games to fail due to split community population. GW1 and GW2 could coexist because they are 2 different types of online games and GW1 costs hardly anything to upkeep with modern server tech. 

GW2 has dropped back down to like...12th, 13th? in active users? WoW remains dominant, Runescape received a resurgence, FFXIV is on very slow decline but mostly steady, Destiny continues to do very well, Baldur's Gate 3 is coming out to a lot of hype. And those are just the ones I can think of offhandedly. GW2 had a brief surge in popularity when EoD released, but that was largely due to (1) EoD generally miming the features of HoT/PoF and "being an expansion", and (2) any concerns its thin quality might have created being alleviated by an immediate announcement of a "fourth expac" that was then curiously never specified to be "smaller" until nearly a year later, after many droughts of content and communication. GW2 is not where it was at EoD release, and I think ANet is still trying to hold onto that brief surge as long as it can, slightly extended artificially by a lot of hypetrain youtubers who fell for that PR stunt and thought the game actually still had long-term direction/goals. GW2 is almost assuredly not top 5 anymore and lost a lot of goodwill and users after the several whammies of underdelivering that were no roadmaps/communication, small expac announcement, Gyala Delves, and now SotO.

On 7/16/2023 at 7:16 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

Its not, they have a team working on the Horizon project in Korea already and hiring under the name "Project H". And they have announced they are working on the Horizon mmorpg, this is an unnanounced mmorpg, and if its horizon why would arenanet not say it and shut the rumours about a new GW mmorpg that may hurt and its already probably hurting gw2.

Also if they make a GW3 its not gonna be a GW2 improved lol. There will be loads of different things aside of the graphics and engine. For example i doubt they will make the same error of tying skills to weapons, not adding healers from the start and making a weird holy trinity of boons for endgame. Neither this balling system of gw2 which no ones like. GW2 its oudated and have lots of problems since its foundation, so indeed, it will not be the same.

Absolutely agree with all of this. They will deliberately design role niches from the beginning and try to maintain design space that respects and bolsters them rather than dilutes them like post-HoT content did--clearly "play however you want" really just devolved into "play DPS or slightly less DPS with boons". Weapons will obviously have skills but I bet there will be a lot more modularity in choosing the effects of those skills so that players don't feel railroaded into using "the weapon" to play a class. Weaponswapping with either be totally gone or with a substantially longer cooldown to be used as "stances", or otherwise involve swapping between maybe two skills at a time like most two-button action games. Party AoE boons will either be totally removed or given much more specificity in some sort of passive target-pairing with a lot of leniency on distance. Overall it will focus skills down more into a smaller but more customizable skillset to accommodate gamepad play and make PvP more engaging/easier to balance. PvP will definitely be a renewed focus because a solid PvP system generates a lot more replayability per-development resource than a PvE map of GW2's quality.

And, most importantly, it will largely get rid of grinding as a necessary means to try new builds, and make them essentially swappable on the fly. No more leveling just to gain abilities and especs. No more grinding gold/loot to get specific gear types. Armor will be purely cosmetic; weapons and maybe a few trinket slots might still carry specific skills since it is much less daunting to regear/swap a single weapon or effects as opposed to needing to reslot full armor. "Skills" and "Traits", while likely some being locked behind content, will be easily retraited with a fairly centralized system. But the biggest bottom line GW3 is going to meet will likely be the ability to multiclass or otherwise create new fully functional professions/especs on the fly.

GW2's biggest hurdle to player retention and overall fun has hands down been the inability to change professions without needing to reroll and relevel a character. Even for especs, needing to sync up with a HP train for an hour is just needlessly gatekeeping players when the party they just joined wanted a Chrono *now*. Respeccing is going to have to be virtually instantaneous, and GW3 is going to lean into other things like combat and gemstore aesthetics to make up for less of a gear grind, but it is practically a necessity at this point to retain players who are used to being able to just "pick a different character" in games like Overwatch. When freaking Baldur's Gate 3, the video game adaptation of the original tabletop RPG D&D, lets your character multiclass and swap on the fly; when FFXVI and Diablo IV, franchises known for very linear RPG leveling, both let you respec traits instantaneously for practically no cost; you *know* that GW2's profession system is archaic on the way out.

16 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

A GW3 would most likely not have the one thing GW2 does better than all other MMORPGs: an immersive, open world.

I think it would be really difficult for GW3 to top this anyway. Every GW2 map through Drizzlewood is just packed with details and nooks and flavor. But that also appeals to an older, 90s/00s gaming sensibility when exploration and collectathons were engaging. Yes GW2 is a feat of exploration and movement, but like BotW, now everyone does that and the gimmick has played out. While I am sure GW3 will have some pretty vistas and maybe some degree of map stuff, it is not going to rely on exploration/collections like GW2 did. Map completion is a pain. And if GW3 were to focus its resources anywhere, I am betting it will invest in trying to make the best combat and PvP/WvW system it can first.

Reality is, ever since EoD pulled in fresh blood and everyone started just aimlessly roaming around on their Mech and Virt, most casual players don't really do the collections or appreciate all the little details anyway. They love the sparser EoD maps all the same because they are pretty first and foremost. I am expecting GW3 will be able to get by on providing mostly empty zones like FFXIV does and casual players won't think any less of the game--but I do hope they try for something a little more creative/innovative than that. I do think that metas have been extremely well-received and the meta/event system is likely to survive and be maintained as the main source of engagement in open world maps. We just may have...less open world maps.

3 hours ago, anninke.7469 said:

And there might be less playable races to make armor skins easier to produce. In which case I probably wouldn't be interested.

I think the opposite here. Clearly the casual MMO market has a desire for customizability and self-expression. FFXIV and increasingly GW2 are becoming more about fashion, aesthetic, socialization, emotes, in-game events, housing, etc. FFXIV has demonstrated pretty clearly that MMOs gain a lot of tracking in just being an alternate fantasy life/community, with more traditional things like combat and collections being just window-dressing for afking in Limsa.

Character creation and customizability is HUGE for that kind of appeal. I not only think we will see at least one more race, but we will see even more customizable options. Think like, other axes of customization beyond race. Not just Tengu and Hylek and Djinn or whatever. But also, exalted Tengu, awakened Tengu, jade-prosthesis Tengu. If we wanted to get really crazy and sci-fi, could even see interbreeding lol. Charr-Tengu, Human-Tengu, etc.

But regardless, they are definitely going hard with races in GW3. Especially since the opening game is their best shot at including everything they possibly can, because adding races later on is the biggest pain.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Yes, in fact. Tyria is currently in the middle of a jade-tech revolution, not to mention the Asura are now free to play around with their old abandoned tech and I'm sure we will stumble on some old Orrian spaceships or something. But the jade tech globalization is inevitable, and they can't just repeat GW2's post-dragon-apocalyptic conceit of copypasting old map assets "but dragon-destroyed". It would be a bit too convenient to just throw the world back into a dark ages. So cyberpunk GW3 is actually a very real possibility and I think could add the needed freshness to the class system and updated action combat. Plus, if mist-travel technology also advances, that's really the perfect premise to design a lot of GW2/GW1 crossover content if they want to try integrating past eras of Tyria into a larger "extended universe" remaster trilogy to revitalize interest in past games and retain players with now "three times the content". Assuming they even have the ambition and budget to pull that off, but that would be a very impressive, "gaming has completed itself" feat. Ancient/medieval, renaissance/industrial, modern/future, a regular Helliconia in game format.

But also I could totally see that involving space travel to see where the Orrians came from

Well the thing is, I'm not convinced the majority of the player base would go for that. At the core of it, in spite of all the technology the game has in it, the game is still a fantasy game. Adding more technology would a huge risk. I mean, I would like it myself probably, but I'm just one person. And it has to be different enough from GW2 to warrant a GW3. 

I think that they're adopting the current format of smaller expansions,  possibly every year, with a couple of updates in between, might be the way to go for them for many years to come. I'm not saying that there won't be a GW3 but in my mind it's still very much "if" and not "when".

[Izzy.2951]

2 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

It actually makes a lot of sense to be working GW2 up if GW3 is on the horizon. Not only to sustain revenue and preserve the IP while GW3 is in development for who knows how long, but merely to keep up a sort of continuity of interest in the property up and through a GW3 announcement. GW2 does have enough going for it, dated though it may be, to sustain some sort of old-guard nostalgia crowd long after GW3 launches ala FFXI (although it seriously needs to stop messing with the core combat/espec systems and trying to make them into "proto-GW3" to maintain that distinct market niche and appeal). And I would further argue that most of these changes, with only DirectX 11 being the biggest outlier, fall somewhere between futureproofing systems and aimless faffery as opposed to deliberate investments in the game's longevity. They feel more like ping-ponging indecision, back and forth, unsure of when and for how much longer they need to keep GW2 alive as GW3 continues to hit development speedbumps.

SotO and the new expansion model is already quite skeletal, just saying.

Yes, in fact. Tyria is currently in the middle of a jade-tech revolution, not to mention the Asura are now free to play around with their old abandoned tech and I'm sure we will stumble on some old Orrian spaceships or something. But the jade tech globalization is inevitable, and they can't just repeat GW2's post-dragon-apocalyptic conceit of copypasting old map assets "but dragon-destroyed". It would be a bit too convenient to just throw the world back into a dark ages. So cyberpunk GW3 is actually a very real possibility and I think could add the needed freshness to the class system and updated action combat. Plus, if mist-travel technology also advances, that's really the perfect premise to design a lot of GW2/GW1 crossover content if they want to try integrating past eras of Tyria into a larger "extended universe" remaster trilogy to revitalize interest in past games and retain players with now "three times the content". Assuming they even have the ambition and budget to pull that off, but that would be a very impressive, "gaming has completed itself" feat. Ancient/medieval, renaissance/industrial, modern/future, a regular Helliconia in game format.

But also I could totally see that involving space travel to see where the Orrians came from.

GW2 has dropped back down to like...12th, 13th? in active users? WoW remains dominant, Runescape received a resurgence, FFXIV is on very slow decline but mostly steady, Destiny continues to do very well, Baldur's Gate 3 is coming out to a lot of hype. And those are just the ones I can think of offhandedly. GW2 had a brief surge in popularity when EoD released, but that was largely due to (1) EoD generally miming the features of HoT/PoF and "being an expansion", and (2) any concerns its thin quality might have created being alleviated by an immediate announcement of a "fourth expac" that was then curiously never specified to be "smaller" until nearly a year later, after many droughts of content and communication. GW2 is not where it was at EoD release, and I think ANet is still trying to hold onto that brief surge as long as it can, slightly extended artificially by a lot of hypetrain youtubers who fell for that PR stunt and thought the game actually still had long-term direction/goals. GW2 is almost assuredly not top 5 anymore and lost a lot of goodwill and users after the several whammies of underdelivering that were no roadmaps/communication, small expac announcement, Gyala Delves, and now SotO.

Absolutely agree with all of this. They will deliberately design role niches from the beginning and try to maintain design space that respects and bolsters them rather than dilutes them like post-HoT content did--clearly "play however you want" really just devolved into "play DPS or slightly less DPS with boons". Weapons will obviously have skills but I bet there will be a lot more modularity in choosing the effects of those skills so that players don't feel railroaded into using "the weapon" to play a class. Weaponswapping with either be totally gone or with a substantially longer cooldown to be used as "stances", or otherwise involve swapping between maybe two skills at a time like most two-button action games. Party AoE boons will either be totally removed or given much more specificity in some sort of passive target-pairing with a lot of leniency on distance. Overall it will focus skills down more into a smaller but more customizable skillset to accommodate gamepad play and make PvP more engaging/easier to balance. PvP will definitely be a renewed focus because a solid PvP system generates a lot more replayability per-development resource than a PvE map of GW2's quality.

And, most importantly, it will largely get rid of grinding as a necessary means to try new builds, and make them essentially swappable on the fly. No more leveling just to gain abilities and especs. No more grinding gold/loot to get specific gear types. Armor will be purely cosmetic; weapons and maybe a few trinket slots might still carry specific skills since it is much less daunting to regear/swap a single weapon or effects as opposed to needing to reslot full armor. "Skills" and "Traits", while likely some being locked behind content, will be easily retraited with a fairly centralized system. But the biggest bottom line GW3 is going to meet will likely be the ability to multiclass or otherwise create new fully functional professions/especs on the fly.

GW2's biggest hurdle to player retention and overall fun has hands down been the inability to change professions without needing to reroll and relevel a character. Even for especs, needing to sync up with a HP train for an hour is just needlessly gatekeeping players when the party they just joined wanted a Chrono *now*. Respeccing is going to have to be virtually instantaneous, and GW3 is going to lean into other things like combat and gemstore aesthetics to make up for less of a gear grind, but it is practically a necessity at this point to retain players who are used to being able to just "pick a different character" in games like Overwatch. When freaking Baldur's Gate 3, the video game adaptation of the original tabletop RPG D&D, lets your character multiclass and swap on the fly; when FFXVI and Diablo IV, franchises known for very linear RPG leveling, both let you respec traits instantaneously for practically no cost; you *know* that GW2's profession system is archaic on the way out.

I think it would be really difficult for GW3 to top this anyway. Every GW2 map through Drizzlewood is just packed with details and nooks and flavor. But that also appeals to an older, 90s/00s gaming sensibility when exploration and collectathons were engaging. Yes GW2 is a feat of exploration and movement, but like BotW, now everyone does that and the gimmick has played out. While I am sure GW3 will have some pretty vistas and maybe some degree of map stuff, it is not going to rely on exploration/collections like GW2 did. Map completion is a pain. And if GW3 were to focus its resources anywhere, I am betting it will invest in trying to make the best combat and PvP/WvW system it can first.

Reality is, ever since EoD pulled in fresh blood and everyone started just aimlessly roaming around on their Mech and Virt, most casual players don't really do the collections or appreciate all the little details anyway. They love the sparser EoD maps all the same because they are pretty first and foremost. I am expecting GW3 will be able to get by on providing mostly empty zones like FFXIV does and casual players won't think any less of the game--but I do hope they try for something a little more creative/innovative than that. I do think that metas have been extremely well-received and the meta/event system is likely to survive and be maintained as the main source of engagement in open world maps. We just may have...less open world maps.

I think the opposite here. Clearly the casual MMO market has a desire for customizability and self-expression. FFXIV and increasingly GW2 are becoming more about fashion, aesthetic, socialization, emotes, in-game events, housing, etc. FFXIV has demonstrated pretty clearly that MMOs gain a lot of tracking in just being an alternate fantasy life/community, with more traditional things like combat and collections being just window-dressing for afking in Limsa.

Character creation and customizability is HUGE for that kind of appeal. I not only think we will see at least one more race, but we will see even more customizable options. Think like, other axes of customization beyond race. Not just Tengu and Hylek and Djinn or whatever. But also, exalted Tengu, awakened Tengu, jade-prosthesis Tengu. If we wanted to get really crazy and sci-fi, could even see interbreeding lol. Charr-Tengu, Human-Tengu, etc.

But regardless, they are definitely going hard with races in GW3. Especially since the opening game is their best shot at including everything they possibly can, because adding races later on is the biggest pain.

I dont think that they will go further than what they have done in GW2 in terms of tecnology. It has been a huge advance to have pistos, rifles, flying ships and more tecnology overall. Guild Wars is a medieval, magic fantasy IP. They just cannot make gw to be star wars or cyberpunk. Yeah, ultimately we can have a small zone like Kaineng being the Wakanda of gw2, but not much than small things here and there. It will rip appart the franchise, they can make a game like that, but it has to be a different product.

And this opens a lot of problems for GW3: 1) In what timelime its goint to happen, 2) What does it have to offer rather than the same tyria we have experience twice in gw1 and gw2 with another engine? This two are very hard problems to solve. Cos definetly i would not be very impress to be again in Lions Arch in gw3 with new graphics and seeing the same old zones, rather than exploring new continent in Tyria.

If Arenanet was mine, i would have done what every decent company has done when they have a succesfull project. Diversify: Billizard, Hirez, Riot... Maintain GW franchise and expand making a Moba, a shooter, mobile games. Even another mmorpg but with a different IP. I still cant belive they havent done this, and as time pass by they are less known and they wont be able to make this. Ultimately releasing GW3 will create a 3) problem: killing gw2 earnings and lets see how gw3 works, cos hey! we are here again with just 1 game alive giving earnings for the whole company. 0 growth.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Batalix.2873]

19 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well the thing is, I'm not convinced the majority of the player base would go for that. At the core of it, in spite of all the technology the game has in it, the game is still a fantasy game. Adding more technology would a huge risk. I mean, I would like it myself probably, but I'm just one person. And it has to be different enough from GW2 to warrant a GW3. 

I think that they're adopting the current format of smaller expansions,  possibly every year, with a couple of updates in between, might be the way to go for them for many years to come. I'm not saying that there won't be a GW3 but in my mind it's still very much "if" and not "when".

I mean I agree, it would be a risk and a bit of a tonal shift, but honestly not much more than all the tech/sci-fi elements GW2 added on top of GW1.

Thing I see, is that Guild Wars is the only major MMO that seems to be trying to craft a sort of living world and history. It didn't just make a new game with GW2, it deliberately moved forward a few hundred years so it could show what the world of GW1 would look like after time and dragons reshaped it.

It's kind of a win-win formula. The lore expands and gets bigger while still staying cohesive. Players get to enjoy a lot of referentialism, nostalgia, and generally revisiting things they enjoyed from the prior game(s) with new twists ala Zelda. And the devs have a much easier time developing content because they have so much source material to draw from and likely can even reuse assets.

So I think a time jump for GW3 and trying to pull off the same concept again is just a very likely, natural probability. And given that we already had a kind of ancient/medieval era in GW1, and renaissance/industrial era in GW2, having a modern/futurist era just naturally opens up design space rather than risking having to build out an entire new game with a lot of the same concepts/tropes. Plus, as I noted previously, they already dragonpocalypsed the world once, so I don't think they could pull off "post-disaster ruins of previous game locations" again. I think the only logical direction is up, showing more how these places have managed to rebuild themselves:

* Modernized Elona now that it isn't torn apart by Joko Civil War

* Globalized Cantha, now that it's not isolated and other races can come back to it

* Techified Kryta, now that the technological revolution has spread north

* Interactions of jade tech with Asura and Charr tech; particularly curious to see if they universalize ley energy in jade stone into other stones: Kralk's and Aurene's brandstones, bloodstone, ley crystals, etc. Jade tech is literally a green-energy revolution but it doesn't have to remain aesthetically green.

* Solving the mystery that is Norns in the Shattered Observatory, and exploring the obvious synergy between norn spirits and mist travel.

* Salads exist I guess.

[Batalix.2873]

22 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I dont think that they will go further than what they have done in GW2 in terms of tecnology. It has been a huge advance to have pistos, rifles, flying ships and more tecnology overall. Guild Wars is a medieval, magic fantasy IP. They just cannot make gw to be star wars or cyberpunk. Yeah, ultimately we can have a small zone like Kaineng being the Wakanda of gw2, but not much than small things here and there. It will rip appart the franchise, they can make a game like that, but it has to be a different product.

And this opens a lot of problems for GW3: 1) In what timelime its goint to happen, 2) What does it have to offer rather than the same tyria we have experience twice in gw1 and gw2 with another engine? This two are very hard problems to solve. Cos definetly i would not be very impress to be again in Lions Arch in gw3 with new graphics and seeing the same old zones, rather than exploring new continent in Tyria.

If Arenanet was mine, i would have done what every decent company has done when they have a succesfull project. Diversify: Billizard, Hirez, Riot... Maintain GW franchise and expand making a Moba, a shooter, mobile games. Even another mmorpg but with a different IP. I still cant belive they havent done this, and as time pass by they are less known and they wont be able to make this. Ultimately releasing GW3 will create a 3) problem: killing gw2 earnings and lets see how gw3 works, cos hey! we are here again with just 1 game alive giving earnings for the whole company. 0 growth.

As I observed above, the conceit of GW2 was: "what if all of these locations got wrecked by dragon magic-nukes?"

The conceit of GW3 has plenty of design space to take in the opposite direction: "what would these settings look like after a few hundred years of uninterrupted peace and technological progress?"

It takes the same conceit that allowed for very formulaic, yet interesting revisiting of past GW1 locations. But flips it on its head and gives us a third, entirely new set of themes to work with.

I think a sci-fi fantasy take is actually fairly niche and novel, and not many games have tried it or done it particularly well. Rev, Engi, Ele, and Mesmer are already *very* sci-fi in their inherent designs and would take virtually nothing to evolve into a sci-fi setting. Catalyst, Willbender, and Harbinger all demonstrate that the devs are willing to and can bend professions into more high-tech themes. It wouldn't take that much to push most of GW2's combat archetypes into a science-fantasy setting, most are halfway there anyway compared to GW1.

And as for "killing GW2", that would be the real beauty of "sci fi GW3". Totally incomparable. Players are far less likely to leave one or the other when they offer totally distinct fantasy niches. GW2 would still thrive as the high renaissance/industrial fantasy game; GW3 could carve its own territory as a futurist fantasy game. Add some mist-travel crossplay features and you'd have players engaging in both games quite a bit, keeping GW2 alive, promoting GW3, and players getting twice as much content to continue to enjoy and experience (three times if they managed to tie GW1 back into the mix too).

This is just logically applying the past pattern of design to GW3, i.e. a literal 1:1 translation of GW2's iteration on GW1, repeated. So I think it is definitely possible and even likely given that it just wouldn't have to compete with GW2 for new ideas and risk the franchise becoming stagnant/repetitive. But obviously it's not guaranteed, and much remains to be seen as to what ANet is even capable of imagining and executing on with the current team they have.

[StuckHat.8061]

4 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

GW2 has dropped back down to like...12th, 13th? in active users? WoW remains dominant, Runescape received a resurgence, FFXIV is on very slow decline but mostly steady, Destiny continues to do very well, Baldur's Gate 3 is coming out to a lot of hype. And those are just the ones I can think of offhandedly. GW2 had a brief surge in popularity when EoD released, but that was largely due to (1) EoD generally miming the features of HoT/PoF and "being an expansion", and (2) any concerns its thin quality might have created being alleviated by an immediate announcement of a "fourth expac" that was then curiously never specified to be "smaller" until nearly a year later, after many droughts of content and communication. GW2 is not where it was at EoD release, and I think ANet is still trying to hold onto that brief surge as long as it can, slightly extended artificially by a lot of hypetrain youtubers who fell for that PR stunt and thought the game actually still had long-term direction/goals. GW2 is almost assuredly not top 5 anymore and lost a lot of goodwill and users after the several whammies of underdelivering that were no roadmaps/communication, small expac announcement, Gyala Delves, and now SotO.

I hate to sound petty, but I'd like some sources on this. I've done my own research and results vary wildly from GW2 being the 12th most populated (which was honestly just the first result on Google), to somewhere in the top 5 (as following sites claim). Runescape hasn't received a resurgence. They simply released clean slate servers, I'm pretty sure. You can say that in of itself caused the resurgence, but I'd disagree on the basis that Runescape isn't suddenly some forerunner that everyone's talking about. It's a tried and true game that is unlikely to perish as long as we can appreciate simplicity, absolutely, but an MMO giant it is not. (To say nothing of the RS/OSRS split, though I suppose WoW has a similar situation). 

FFXIV has been steadily declining and is hardly 'stable', something I can actually say with some measure of certainty as someone who once played and who still has their ear on the ground on the game's status. Destiny has been having scandals about their MTX models and monetization and failing popularity (again), so "doing well" is a bit generous. 

BG 3 is cool though. Can't really deny that. However, it's not an MMO, so it's relevancy is questionable.

I also take umbrage with the second bolded line: Small Expac Announcement/SotO are effectively the same, so putting it up twice only exists to further make the situation look bad. Communication failures, however, are undeniable. I don't think the community's disappointment in the dev's hushness is unjustified, but it's not brave or new to say.

That being said: If you're going to doom, I'd appreciate a more honest effort at it. I'll be transparent in my belief that you are using incorrect resources or otherwise to make your points or opinions on the game seem more compelling.

Edited July 20, 2023 by StuckHat.8061

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

As I observed above, the conceit of GW2 was: "what if all of these locations got wrecked by dragon magic-nukes?"

The conceit of GW3 has plenty of design space to take in the opposite direction: "what would these settings look like after a few hundred years of uninterrupted peace and technological progress?"

It takes the same conceit that allowed for very formulaic, yet interesting revisiting of past GW1 locations. But flips it on its head and gives us a third, entirely new set of themes to work with.

I think a sci-fi fantasy take is actually fairly niche and novel, and not many games have tried it or done it particularly well. Rev, Engi, Ele, and Mesmer are already *very* sci-fi in their inherent designs and would take virtually nothing to evolve into a sci-fi setting. Catalyst, Willbender, and Harbinger all demonstrate that the devs are willing to and can bend professions into more high-tech themes. It wouldn't take that much to push most of GW2's combat archetypes into a science-fantasy setting, most are halfway there anyway compared to GW1.

And as for "killing GW2", that would be the real beauty of "sci fi GW3". Totally incomparable. Players are far less likely to leave one or the other when they offer totally distinct fantasy niches. GW2 would still thrive as the high renaissance/industrial fantasy game; GW3 could carve its own territory as a futurist fantasy game. Add some mist-travel crossplay features and you'd have players engaging in both games quite a bit, keeping GW2 alive, promoting GW3, and players getting twice as much content to continue to enjoy and experience (three times if they managed to tie GW1 back into the mix too).

This is just logically applying the past pattern of design to GW3, i.e. a literal 1:1 translation of GW2's iteration on GW1, repeated. So I think it is definitely possible and even likely given that it just wouldn't have to compete with GW2 for new ideas and risk the franchise becoming stagnant/repetitive. But obviously it's not guaranteed, and much remains to be seen as to what ANet is even capable of imagining and executing on with the current team they have.

While i agree with quite somethings you have said before this makes no sense to me.

You kinda argument that making a whole new IP its risky because its brand new ofc, doesnt have a whole fanbase behind it. But then you say about making GW3 idk another 300 hundred years ahead, sci-fi and whole different locations. Then, 1st of all thats a new IP directly, theres no guild wars in there neither a nostalgia call for the fans of the franchise. Would have more sense to release a new sci-fi IP mmorpg under a new name than do that with guild wars franchise.

And about "killing GW2" a potential gw3 will kill gw2 even if they have noticeable differences. GW1 and GW2 are very different, and the release of the sequel + the company not making more content for the older version (GW1) killed gw1. So at the end Arenanet is gonna find themself like they have been the last 10 years, having 1 game alive (gw2) that gives them money, and thats it.

Luckily they are making a card game of guild wars in korea? even if its not the best investment in term of company growth and diversying.. its smthing. While i can agree that they are not putting much effort in gw2 and as a customer its really sad. GW3 will have lots of challenges to make and will put the company in a risky position, if thats all they are doing. They shud make other games and have multiple games actives, if they really wanna keep going.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, StuckHat.8061 said:

I hate to sound petty, but I'd like some sources on this. I've done my own research and results vary wildly from GW2 being the 12th most populated (which was honestly just the first result on Google), to somewhere in the top 5 (as following sites claim). Runescape hasn't received a resurgence. They simply released clean slate servers, I'm pretty sure. You can say that in of itself caused the resurgence, but I'd disagree on the basis that Runescape isn't suddenly some forerunner that everyone's talking about. It's a tried and true game that is unlikely to perish as long as we can appreciate simplicity, absolutely, but an MMO giant it is not. (To say nothing of the RS/OSRS split, though I suppose WoW has a similar situation). 

FFXIV has been steadily declining and is hardly 'stable', something I can actually say with some measure of certainty as someone who once played and who still has their ear on the ground on the game's status. Destiny has been having scandals about their MTX models and monetization and failing popularity (again), so "doing well" is a bit generous. 

BG 3 is cool though. Can't really deny that. However, it's not an MMO, so it's relevancy is questionable.

I also take umbrage with the second bolded line: Small Expac Announcement/SotO are effectively the same, so putting it up twice only exists to further make the situation look bad. Communication failures, however, are undeniable. I don't think the community's disappointment in the dev's hushness is unjustified, but it's not brave or new to say.

That being said: If you're going to doom, I'd appreciate a more honest effort at it. I'll be transparent in my belief that you are using incorrect resources or otherwise to make your points or opinions on the game seem more compelling.

I mean i cannot say in which position its exactcly, but what he says its kinda true. You can search steam numbers, reddit numbers, youtube subscribers/views, twitch viewers, google searchs and many other stadistics. And you will find there are many mmorpg over gw2.

Starting with wow, final fantasy, destiny, path of exile, runescape, wow classic, Black Dessert Online, swtor, new world, Lost Ark, Elder Scrolls Online. I cant say for sure, but if you look up all the different stats i named you.. you will find most of them are more populated than gw2, and dont tell me the thing about gw2 steam numbers are not all, in other games it happens the same and there are more stadistics like reddit users, youtube subs/views, twitch viewers, google searchs.

People in this community tends to think gw2 is higher than it really is. Probably with the hype of EoD release + Steam + a lot of ppl thinkin gw2 was making a comeback and going full hard, it went to the top 5. Gw2 Nowadays its hardly top 10. And thats talking about mmorpgs.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[StuckHat.8061]

20 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I mean i cannot say in which position its exactcly, but what he says its kinda true. You can search steam numbers, reddit numbers, youtube subscribers/views, twitch viewers, google searchs and many other stadistics. And you will find there are many mmorpg over gw2.

Starting with wow, final fantasy, destiny, path of exile, runescape, wow classic, Black Dessert Online, swtor, new world, Lost Ark. I cant say for sure, but if you look up all the different stats i named you.. you will find most of them are more populated than gw2, and dont tell me the thing about gw2 steam numbers are not all, in other games it happens the same and there are more stadistics like reddit users, youtube subs/views, twitch viewers, google searchs.

People in this community tends to think gw2 is higher than it really is. Probably with the hype of EoD release + Steam + a lot of ppl thinkin gw2 was making a comeback and going full hard, it went to the top 5. Gw2 Nowadays its hardly top 10. And thats talking about mmorpgs.

I'm willing to believe that maybe the game is in a worse place than I thought. GW2 hasn't really been declining insomuch just sustaining the population it's always had. Though let's say I let you have this. Okay. GW2 isn't in the top 10. I'm very familiar with the "Steam is not all" cope from FFXIV, so I can easily accept that despite it not being my point or source. 

... So what? Like you yourself said, the solution certainly isn't some scifi MMO with a forced mimicry of what was GW. I was honestly just wanting to shut down the ludicrous notion that the only way to this 'salvation' of the game is to make a third one where we all reset in a setting completely unrelated to the one we have now.

Edited July 20, 2023 by StuckHat.8061

[Zzik.5873]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:41 AM, Beleron.9347 said:

If Anet were to make a new game, I'd rather see a single player RPG set in Tyria. 

Or a RTS like warcraft or age of empire. Each major races and elder dragons armies as playable faction :3

[Batalix.2873]

4 hours ago, StuckHat.8061 said:

I hate to sound petty, but I'd like some sources on this. I've done my own research and results vary wildly from GW2 being the 12th most populated (which was honestly just the first result on Google), to somewhere in the top 5 (as following sites claim). Runescape hasn't received a resurgence. They simply released clean slate servers, I'm pretty sure. You can say that in of itself caused the resurgence, but I'd disagree on the basis that Runescape isn't suddenly some forerunner that everyone's talking about. It's a tried and true game that is unlikely to perish as long as we can appreciate simplicity, absolutely, but an MMO giant it is not. (To say nothing of the RS/OSRS split, though I suppose WoW has a similar situation). 

FFXIV has been steadily declining and is hardly 'stable', something I can actually say with some measure of certainty as someone who once played and who still has their ear on the ground on the game's status. Destiny has been having scandals about their MTX models and monetization and failing popularity (again), so "doing well" is a bit generous. 

BG 3 is cool though. Can't really deny that. However, it's not an MMO, so it's relevancy is questionable.

I also take umbrage with the second bolded line: Small Expac Announcement/SotO are effectively the same, so putting it up twice only exists to further make the situation look bad. Communication failures, however, are undeniable. I don't think the community's disappointment in the dev's hushness is unjustified, but it's not brave or new to say.

That being said: If you're going to doom, I'd appreciate a more honest effort at it. I'll be transparent in my belief that you are using incorrect resources or otherwise to make your points or opinions on the game seem more compelling.

https://mmo-population.com/

https://gamingfyi.com/most-played-mmorpgs/

12th and 7th respectively. Quick Google doesn't turn up many reasonably recent numbers, and I won't cite to Steam (32nd) because that's absolutely not a fair metric. The numbers vary wildly so all of it is to be taken with a grain of salt. But the five I named pretty assuredly outpace GW2. FFXIV is "declining", but as I said much more slowly due to having a more consistent product/output, as well as having built up a much larger playerbase over the years. GW2 barely got any attention and was "presumed dead" by many until EoD gave it some publicity, but that was only a brief surge and I think no one could look at EoD and post-EoD roadmaps/patches and think "yeah, that was consistent". All MMOs are constantly fighting a gradual loss of players, but GW2 has never been good at building up and retaining players, especially in recent years with wild swings in developer efforts and consistency of content. At best, it failed to retain as strongly as a mechanical beast like FFXIV; more likely, it has also driven away some players.

I could accept claims that GW2 hovers around 10th. But the industry doesn't have that many competitors and if you're not in the two horse race or a recently released dark horse, you are niche and drop well beneath half of what the current juggernauts retain. Players like to aggregate where games appear to be fully supported with recent releases, regardless of if they are actually of the same quality as older/smaller titles.

4 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

While i agree with quite somethings you have said before this makes no sense to me.

You kinda argument that making a whole new IP its risky because its brand new ofc, doesnt have a whole fanbase behind it. But then you say about making GW3 idk another 300 hundred years ahead, sci-fi and whole different locations. Then, 1st of all thats a new IP directly, theres no guild wars in there neither a nostalgia call for the fans of the franchise. Would have more sense to release a new sci-fi IP mmorpg under a new name than do that with guild wars franchise.

And about "killing GW2" a potential gw3 will kill gw2 even if they have noticeable differences. GW1 and GW2 are very different, and the release of the sequel + the company not making more content for the older version (GW1) killed gw1. So at the end Arenanet is gonna find themself like they have been the last 10 years, having 1 game alive (gw2) that gives them money, and thats it.

Luckily they are making a card game of guild wars in korea? even if its not the best investment in term of company growth and diversying.. its smthing. While i can agree that they are not putting much effort in gw2 and as a customer its really sad. GW3 will have lots of challenges to make and will put the company in a risky position, if thats all they are doing. They shud make other games and have multiple games actives, if they really wanna keep going.

It's the same IP in the sense that GW2 plopping asura tech and jade tech everywhere, or importing entire chunks of map designs that have been altered by a Dragonbrand or Jormag storm, is still the Guild Wars IP. It is reusing most of the same locations and worldbuilding IP, just with some new things added on top.

A lot of IP does this, especially IP jugggernauts. Look at how Marvel recycles IP constantly with "new spins". One movie in a recognizable series might be a buddy comedy, the other might be a crime thriller, another high fantasy, another high sci-fi. It's no different than reviving a character with a different actor or mashing a few properties together. Franchises are very iterative and oftentimes that is just what keeps them "fresh" and sells.

First GW1 had very little to do with dragons outside of Primo. It was more about people and races and the conflicts between them. GW2 took that setting and shifted the frame to be about dragons as a metaphor for massive environmental disaster and fallout. GW2 was "GW1: Fallout". So it would not be at all bizarre for GW3 to use a completely similar premise to shift the focus and tone toward a different genre. "GW2: Utopia": now that we have thoroughly explored themes of people and dragons, why not have a full game exploring technology.

It's not definitively the frame GW3 would necessarily have to go for, but let me observe two things. First, that technology has always been kind of lurking in the background of GW2 the same way dragons did in GW1; ever present, generally under explored. And second, that making Cantha a jade tech urbania was a *choice*, one that if they don't arbitrarily walk back with WMDs (which would be repetitive after Scarlet/LA), was obviously going to have far reaching implications after Cantha opened up to the world. Jade tech was basically setting the game up for a technological revolution, and it is the clearest "paradigm-shifting" direction a GW3 has at the moment, barring some Kryptis-infested hellscape.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I could accept claims that GW2 hovers around 10th. But the industry doesn't have that many competitors and if you're not in the two horse race or a recently released dark horse, you are niche and drop well beneath half of what the current juggernauts retain. Players like to aggregate where games appear to be fully supported with recent releases, regardless of if they are actually of the same quality as older/smaller titles.

You're right and I think it's not even that interesting what place GW2 has in the ranking anyway unless they're in the top 3 as you indicate. In reality GW2 is as good as it's going to get and will be maintained for many years to come still I suspect.

However, it's not safe for Arenanet to base their future on just GW2. So in that sense it should be more expansions for GW2 AND another game. So to answer your original question, it's not a matter of SoTO or GW3 but SoTO AND a new game. Whether that's GW3 or something else entirely remains to be seen, but my money is on something else.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[WeightTrainer.3219]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:41 PM, Rose Solane.1027 said:

Call me crazy but for quite some time I had the feeling that ArenaNet was in the process of ending the story of Guild Wars 2. Two elder dragons killed in one (disappointing) end of the story line of one of those elder dragons. End of Dragons as the name of the third expansion. The end of the run for Guild Wars 2 was near, time for Guild Wars 3!. And then the announcement came that we would get a new form of expansions for Guild Wars 2.

Now we have the first announcement of what will be in Secrets of the Obscure, the first expansion of the new type. I look at it and think: Is this really the type of content, of changes, that I want for an expansion? My answer is  no, I want Guild Wars 3. And looking at the announcement of Secrets of the Obscure I think that ArenaNet wanted Guild Wars 3 too, but had to continue making content for Guild Wars 2.

I am fine with GW3 if I can keep my legendary gear in it.

[Batalix.2873]

8 minutes ago, WeightTrainer.3219 said:

I am fine with GW3 if I can keep my legendary gear in it.

I have a feeling GW3 is going to do away with the need for legendary gear at all. Just allow players to retrait on the fly. All the popular kids are doing that these days, some from very well established old grindy RPG franchises: Baldur's Gate, Diablo IV, FFXVI.

The floodgates have opened any game that has the audacity to say " no you can't play that class yet/now" is just naturally going to be outcompeted by so many other games with ready-to-play character selection ala Overwatch.

MMO/RPG gear/class grinding is very quickly becoming a thing of the past, especially for big budget/large scale games that need to be accessible and popular to justify their expense.

[jokke.6239]

On 7/16/2023 at 3:41 AM, Izzy.2951 said:

Its not conspiracy its not paranoid. Arenanet its officialy working on a new MMORPG with stablished fantasy IP, aka gw3. At the same time we are seeing the low resources arenanet is having to make gw2, even in end of dragons you can see how the quality went down. For not talking about gyala delve/silent surf. Less polish, reuse of assets, low attention to detail, reusing animations and combat stuff. 

The new expansion is 2 maps with reused assets and stuff that is already made in gw2. A Wizard vault that is like what they introduced in gw1 with zaishen mission, to do old content daily, weekly, quarterly  to keep people entretained. The combat stuff half of it is just removing limitations, the only new stuff is the new weapons they gonna add to classes.

So they are making a new mmorpg, we know and we see there are low resources for gw2: Eod less quality, gyala delve season 2 living world quality, wvw alliances taking forever, literally 0 content for pvp, not even a single new map, no raids. Do you also think they are not tired with gw2? and that Colin Johanson is back in the company to make more gw2? probably Mike Obrien left cos he didnt wanted to make anymore gw stuff, and his ego was destroyed after ncsoft cancelled projects. Maybe he wanted to make a gw3 back in 2018-2020, but he already left.

And yes IBS was basically the Guild Wars Beyond of gw2, what happened is that their new projects got cancelled, so they basically had to get back to the only game they have active. While they gain more money and restructure for new projects, which they have already done. Gw2 is not on maintenance mode cos their new projects got cancelled, and this new one that is not "Dune" neither a mobile game, its gw3, and when it launches it will kill gw2 instantly both in content creation and players. You can argue whatever you want, but its the truth.

I think you make interresting points, but if it's "truth" as you say, then prove it

No one knows anything with certainty

[magickthief.6492]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:01 PM, magickthief.6492 said:

your living story content is now : expansions...lol...gw3 coming soon to a retailer near you

 For the confused, will there be living story anymore? 🤔 

[jokke.6239]

5 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

 For the confused 🤔 

This forum certainly doesn't lack those 🤣

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just imagine a GW3 with this balance team working on it since the beginning. If this isn't enough to kill the interest nothing is.

[Fueki.4753]

27 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Just imagine a GW3 with this balance team working on it since the beginning. If this isn't enough to kill the interest nothing is.

Unlike with GW2, such a game would only have Elementalist as a playable profession, so it'd end up being more balanced.

[Kelly.7019]

• Maybe the title itself is the hint that gw3 is coming and instead of future xpac the gw2 game will just merge into gw3  or not
• just because the story line of guild wars 1- (elder dragons i assume- don't care much about lore tl:dka) doesn't mean gw2 is over. I assume they want to continue gw2 and make it like wow- have it last forever and just create new story lines since the dragons one ran out/ played out. or they are taking what we already have and re-packaging it and stretching it out as long as possible for a cash cow game.
• ahh gw3 was scrapped by NCsoft is that what happened?
• possible reasons to start a new game - graphics have advanced considerably, the old code is entirely f'ed and they could expand the game in new directions, they can create new storylines and go in different directions(ti what they are doing now.) honestly i want anet to go to new area never done in GW1. there seems like many large areas of the map left to explore. Some might think this ground for gw3, but i think gw2 has plenty of years to explore them all.

[Kelly.7019]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:19 PM, jokke.6239 said:

I think you make interresting points, but if it's "truth" as you say, then prove it

No one knows anything with certainty

it's a fantasy Stargate SG1 game!!! ok its not but i'd love that!

[Kelly.7019]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:06 AM, Luthan.5236 said:

- and it hopefully will support Win 7 for a bit in the future.

 

things like this are what hold the game back. ya can't do certain thing with such old systems let alone what kind of crappy hardware/ old machines that you can still run and play the game.

Would they ever release gw3 along side gw2- assume 3 is for newer machines. - i doubt it.

is there really that big a leap in tech from 10 years ago? i remember when i could no longer play Wow when Cata came out and had to upgrade my computer to play it. I assume anet doesn't want to do that to its fans base but seems like some well needed updates to allow a bigger sandbox game would be nice,

[Kelly.7019]

As far as the all the rage of aesthetics and customization goes the evolution of decorating yourself extends outward to decorating the places you live in. Glitter bombing your toon is the first step, pimping out our mounts was the next. If anet wants to continue this tradition it's only relevant to start to think about player housing. While that might not be capable in gw2, it might def be a direction in gw3.

[Luthan.5236]

2 hours ago, Kelly.7019 said:

things like this are what hold the game back. ya can't do certain thing with such old systems let alone what kind of crappy hardware/ old machines that you can still run and play the game.

I just recently upgraded to Win 11. Did not expect it. But a few reasons made me change my mind. It was possible to buy a cheap computer (from 440 down to 280 at a sale) and Steam seems to drop support for Win 7. (And a lot of indie/smaller games are on Steam - where I like their sales and stuff. Even though the games can still run on older systems Steam probably won't offer a legacy support - meaning you can't even download them anymore in a legal way.)

The company I bought my computer from is a local (German) company that builds the computers at their own (good cable management and I got the support DVD from the mainboard they sold ... though I downloaded more recent firmware online) - offering you also to customize. Seems like they made the sale during Amazon Prime day (when I planned to buy another router at Amazon but I put that on hold for now).

What amazes me is that the gpu with the integraded chip is enough to be a lot faster (more smooth - and I don't need high settings and fps ... as long as somethign runs at minimum setting with at least 30fps it feels okay for me) than my old setup. Loading a lot faster from an SSD now. (I still put my OS on my old hard disk trying to use the few GB of SSD that came with the computer for the games that need it.) I'd appreciate if sys requirements of newer games (some do this) offers more detail on GPU, SSD (if recommended/needed ... Baldurs Gate 3 at Steam does this) and GPU requirements.

Seems if you don't play a lot and are not into the technical stuff it needs some research. (Since the GHz for the CPU ... doesn't really mean anything. When some newer generatoin thing runs a lot faster. Comparing the integrated chip to some dedicated cards - the games usually list only some dedicated card + "newer" in their list ... one Geforce and one AMD example.)

My Win 7 key (upgrade key from Vista to 7 lol) still worked to upgrade to Win 10 (then 11) for free. I think the TPM requirement might in the future be relevant for (better) hardware bans? Useful in online gaming.

The "holdling back" stuff though ... I'd focus on new hardware for newer games/engines (and a possible GW3) - most with focus on efficiency though. And the newer OS and utilizing recourses better. GW3 probably also would not be marketed for high-end-pro-gamers. More for the casual players. (More than 500 euros should not be required terms of hardware - looking at the cpu/gpu/mainboard and ssd stuff.)

For GW2 ... I think we have "other" limitations. EoD seems to have required more (meta there and when lots of players are at the same place - requires more). But the engine is still the same. And the game lacks in other parts. (Gameplay-wise. Not technical. Look at the WvW and PvP ... where no real updates/changes happen.)

We have a lot of old games that were great. And modern games ... that came with modern hardware requirements and "better graphics, less good gameplay". It is not automatically the hardware that needs to increase all the time.