Remove Untamed's Unleash mechanic and rework Hammer

[Marckan.9526]

11 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

In terms oh hammer, it fine especially if you select the skills you want. The main complaint was you had to flip to get access to the other set of skills, now that is no longer the case.

I could not get this working on Untamed, but if it's true then that would be a massive QoL and at least put Hammer Untamed on par with other Ranger Hammers!

I noticed I only got the option to select Hammer skills while Ranger Unleashed (which makes sense) but even if I got the tab open I couldn't actually select different skills.

[Mell.4873]

52 minutes ago, Marckan.9526 said:

I could not get this working on Untamed, but if it's true then that would be a massive QoL and at least put Hammer Untamed on par with other Ranger Hammers!

I noticed I only got the option to select Hammer skills while Ranger Unleashed (which makes sense) but even if I got the tab open I couldn't actually select different skills.

Yeah it definitely is a work in progress, but it should be okay by next patch.

[Marckan.9526]

52 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah it definitely is a work in progress, but it should be okay by next patch.

Hang on, is this feature already implemented for the Untamed? Or at least will be before 4th expansion?

[Talis Whitewolf.4183]

What they could do with hammer on Ranger is allow Soulbeast's Merge mechanic to have the same effect as Untamed's mechanic. i.e. flip between hammers capabilities.

You Merge you get one set of hammer skills, unmerge you get the other.

To be honest Soulbeast and Untamed are mirrors of each other - Soulbeast brings all the power into one, whereas Untamed just shares power unevenly, taking it in turns with the pet as to who gets the power and wears the Big Boy pants.

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Talis Whitewolf.4183 said:

What they could do with hammer on Ranger is allow Soulbeast's Merge mechanic to have the same effect as Untamed's mechanic. i.e. flip between hammers capabilities.

You Merge you get one set of hammer skills, unmerge you get the other.

To be honest Soulbeast and Untamed are mirrors of each other - Soulbeast brings all the power into one, whereas Untamed just shares power unevenly, taking it in turns with the pet as to who gets the power and wears the Big Boy pants.

I hate this idea for the same reason I hate the Unleash design. (except I hate this one more)
Don't dump a state mechanic onto a button responsible for another state mechanic. All you get is a punishment for making a play, resulting in you just not doing the play. What's the point of switching the skills back to base hammer if it means you lose the benefits of merge for 10s, especially since the only reason you'd switch to base is to use the CC and enter the burn phase on a boss, so now you have reduced DPS on the burn phase.
Current way of switching is already better than this and it's even better than Hammer on Untamed.
 

[Talis Whitewolf.4183]

22 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I hate this idea for the same reason I hate the Unleash design. (except I hate this one more)
Don't dump a state mechanic onto a button responsible for another state mechanic. All you get is a punishment for making a play, resulting in you just not doing the play. What's the point of switching the skills back to base hammer if it means you lose the benefits of merge for 10s, especially since the only reason you'd switch to base is to use the CC and enter the burn phase on a boss, so now you have reduced DPS on the burn phase.
Current way of switching is already better than this and it's even better than Hammer on Untamed.
 

Well it was just an idea.

Though to be honest Hammer like all equipped weapons on a Ranger IS modified every time you merge or unmerge in Soulbeast. That's the Soulbeasts mechanics, temporarily lose a pet, in exchange for an increase in your stats.

The only difference is that where Untamed changes the weapons skills and your stats, Soulbeast just modifies the your stats and those of your weapons.

The only question is... Is the boost to hammer enough to make using it in Soulbeast worthwhile.

[BatelGeuce.3591]

14 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

I could not get this working on Untamed, but if it's true then that would be a massive QoL and at least put Hammer Untamed on par with other Ranger Hammers!

I noticed I only got the option to select Hammer skills while Ranger Unleashed (which makes sense) but even if I got the tab open I couldn't actually select different skills.

It was only a feature for Soulbeast. On hammer, you were able to select which skill you wanna use in given slot so it looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/YvEgzkC.png

*It could look like this, this is what I did but you could also change 3 and 5 though I liked having the CC there.

Edited July 3, 2023 by BatelGeuce.3591

[BatelGeuce.3591]

9 hours ago, Talis Whitewolf.4183 said:

What they could do with hammer on Ranger is allow Soulbeast's Merge mechanic to have the same effect as Untamed's mechanic. i.e. flip between hammers capabilities.

You Merge you get one set of hammer skills, unmerge you get the other.

To be honest Soulbeast and Untamed are mirrors of each other - Soulbeast brings all the power into one, whereas Untamed just shares power unevenly, taking it in turns with the pet as to who gets the power and wears the Big Boy pants.

I'd rather keep the system they introduced in the beta and pick w/e skill I wanna use on Soulbeast 😄

[Talis Whitewolf.4183]

17 hours ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

I'd rather keep the system they introduced in the beta and pick w/e skill I wanna use on Soulbeast 😄

Me too. Though I never got to test that part as I only found out about it on here 2 hours before Beta end.

[BatelGeuce.3591]

19 minutes ago, Talis Whitewolf.4183 said:

Me too. Though I never got to test that part as I only found out about it on here 2 hours before Beta end.

Same, that's what we get for ignoring popups. I found out about it in another thread here and went to check it out and there was actually a popup telling you that you can do that but I completely ignored missed it before.

Edited July 4, 2023 by BatelGeuce.3591

[Talis Whitewolf.4183]

On 7/4/2023 at 4:56 PM, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

Same, that's what we get for ignoring popups. I found out about it in another thread here and went to check it out and there was actually a popup telling you that you can do that but I completely ignored missed it before.

Well at least we know now. And come Aug 22 we'll just have to educate the others too.

It makes me wonder what other surprises the other professions have hidden away, that ANet didn't bother to properly let people know about.

[Marckan.9526]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:29 AM, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

It was only a feature for Soulbeast. On hammer, you were able to select which skill you wanna use in given slot so it looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/YvEgzkC.png

*It could look like this, this is what I did but you could also change 3 and 5 though I liked having the CC there.

Yeah I was able to get it working on Soulbeast, but not Untamed.

 

Honestly if they implement this feature on Umtamed then I would have way less issue with the spec! Let's just pray...

[Talis Whitewolf.4183]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:38 AM, Marckan.9526 said:

Yeah I was able to get it working on Soulbeast, but not Untamed.

 

Honestly if they implement this feature on Umtamed then I would have way less issue with the spec! Let's just pray...

Untamed already has it via the mechanic. It's just a lot of messing about unless your dedicated and really get into it.

But the allowing us to literally pick and mix hammer attacks on (hopefully both) Soulbeast and Druid will be easier, and not require having to get the timing right.

But what I'd like to know is will it work the same way on Druid as it will on Soulbeast.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Talis Whitewolf.4183
Missed stuff out.

[wolfyrik.2017]

11 hours ago, Talis Whitewolf.4183 said:

Untamed already has it via the mechanic. It's just a lot of messing about unless your dedicated and really get into it.

But the allowing us to literally pick and mix hammer attacks on (hopefully both) Soulbeast and Druid will be easier, and not require having to get the timing right.

But what I'd like to know is will it work the same way on Druid as it will on Soulbeast.

It did. Every spec except untamed gets to pick the hammer skills they want. Untamed is the worst way to play hammer now. Anet have no idea what they're doing.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer the non-untamed version, it makes the weapon so much better. The problem is that it just proves how badly designed untamed is.

[Marckan.9526]

1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Untamed is the worst way to play hammer now.

I prefer the non-untamed version, it makes the weapon so much better.

This is the way.

[anduriell.6280]

untamed needs a full rework. It makes no sense to have 3 pvp focus specializations. 

 

[Arheundel.6451]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:41 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

untamed needs a full rework. It makes no sense to have 3 pvp focus specializations. 

 

You are wrong to think that they were designed for PvP to start with....instead PvP is the main game mode where pet doesn't completely suck....everywhere else is smokescale or GTFO 

[Mell.4873]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:41 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

untamed needs a full rework. It makes no sense to have 3 pvp focus specializations. 

 

Love it though, Ranger is my go-to Elite for PvP.
It does okay in PvE but there are ways a better Elite that can produce similar numbers.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:34 PM, Marckan.9526 said:

Let 2 and 4 be your Unleashed Ranger states while 3 and 5 being Unleashed pet state.

Half the time I have no idea if these topics are for PvE or competitive--but I'll just give a competitive viewpoint as to why this isn't a good idea.

Essentially, it's simplistic, but also why Hammer just doesn't work on anything but Untamed.

By having 2 as your Unleashed Ranger you lose cripple and barrier access and by having 4 as Unleashed Ranger you lose a LOT of useful conditions for the sake of damage.  Same with 3 as Unleashed pet, you lose a blind, and 5 as unleashed pet you lose a lot of damage for a KD (which you have numerous other ways to get).

The way they made it you need both sides, at least in competitive.  The #3 skill is the easiest use case to see this--if your opponent has stability, you don't want the daze and if they don't have it, you may want either the blind or the daze depending on situation (double dazes into unleashed ranger #2 or just go with the blind + damage and boon removal).  

Removing unleash would also remove the only unique mechanic Untamed has, as you can easily apply full pet control to the other specs.  Losing the ambushes would hurt a LOT in competitive as they are all generally pretty useful.  

As for the 'three competitive specs' thing, Soulbeast literally is PvE DPS and Druid PvE Support; you can use both in competitive, but neither was designed for it like Untamed.  Untamed has no use case in PvE, especially now that Fervent Force is gone.  

[Acheron.1580]

With Fervent Force gone I don't even see why you'd care if you can have the CC and the non-CC versions on the same bar, that would have made the spec so mindless to play it would have been nerfed/removed way sooner. Before it was obvious that you always wanted to CC, even if the target couldn't be, just for the benefits of Fervent Force, now at best you unleash to your pet just to use their skills or if you need the CC, want STAB, certain buffs etc. There's a lot more depth to it as a whole. Even with  soulbeast and having the free reign to swap the skill type outside of battle, for fights where CC isn't useful you probably shouldn't be using the pet-unleashed versions because they won't do as much. I feel like a lot of what you don't like about hammer unleashed is that it's just overwhelming and you'd rather have less to think about than more. And that's perfectly fine, LI builds are a good idea, but for untamed the ability to use ALL of it is what makes it pretty unique.

What they should do in my opinion is go back over the traits in that line which were clearly designed around FF or before let loose. I assume debilitating blows is for pvp/wvw, with movement and healing denial, but both it and nature's shield are just really useless in PvE. Corrupting Vines again feels very WvW/PvP to me and I see it's value, but Cleansing unleash does so little for such a long cooldown, and with the addition of let loose the quickness on Enhancing Impact is a little lackluster, maybe it can also add group might or stab if you already have quickness. I find most of their cantrips pretty heavily weighted towards pvp/wvw as well (I really get the complaint about this being or feeling like a PvP only spec). It's not a perfect spec, far from it, but it's problems really aren't the unleash and hammer mechanic, it was the class being designed entirely around 1 GM trait, which now that it's gone feels a bit lost.