Claiming camps and towers

[Reincarnated.1754]

I have been out of WvW for a while.

I come back and found that the queue for claiming camps and towers is a farce. No one closes the queue box to let those waiting to claim, claim. They have to sit around while the timer closes the box for each kitten-hole.

If anyone knows how to make the dev.s do something.

My suggestion is: If those in the queue leave the area, they get removed from the queue.

I am sure other people get sick of waiting to get 20 supplies.

[TheGrimm.5624]

27 minutes ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

I have been out of WvW for a while.

I come back and found that the queue for claiming camps and towers is a farce. No one closes the queue box to let those waiting to claim, claim. They have to sit around while the timer closes the box for each kitten-hole.

If anyone knows how to make the dev.s do something.

My suggestion is: If those in the queue leave the area, they get removed from the queue.

I am sure other people get sick of waiting to get 20 supplies.

Agree, but this is more complicated then people think and has popped up a number of times. People close the box out all the time. I can't say why the timer is fixed but one player closing out the dialog does not cancel it for all the other players. And I don't think it should since there is no priority system built into the user interface. Example, let's say your guild has that the leader, officers and members can all claim, so let's say you might have 30 people that have an option to claim, take a camp. Your newest member cancels the claim to get the dialog off their screen, that voids the driver from claiming as they see they need to resupply the group, now they have to wait for other guilds to likewise cancel their claims still leading to the delay or worse see a guild that doesn't have the +5 buff yet added so that ends in the camp being claimed but still not providing extra supply from being enabled which is worse then the delay in claiming. As other's have said I think we would need an expansion to the permissions levels to allow for a cancel all button to be assigned to permission levels. Then they would need to change the UI to ask for a yes, no, and if permissions set, a cancel all option. All that said that's a lot of coding to account for thirty seconds. So not sure it's worth the bang for the buck as it goes. And yes have been stuck waiting in line as well so I do get your point.

 

[Ronin.4501]

1 hour ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

I have been out of WvW for a while.

I come back and found that the queue for claiming camps and towers is a farce. No one closes the queue box to let those waiting to claim, claim. They have to sit around while the timer closes the box for each kitten-hole.

If anyone knows how to make the dev.s do something.

My suggestion is: If those in the queue leave the area, they get removed from the queue.

I am sure other people get sick of waiting to get 20 supplies.

Agreed that it is annoying to wait, especially if multiple guilds are in the queue. It's something several of us have asked the devs to fix for quite some time now; unfortunately the devs only seem to give the WvW community what they don't want whilst ignoring the actual request.

I will add that closing the queue box has no bearing on removing that guild from the queue. Whether I close it immediately or let it time out, it's still going to make the next guild in the queue wait 15 seconds.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The only time this really bothers me is when some guild without buffs claims the thing making it useless. Otherwise as long as somebody with the right buffs claims it, it'll be fine.

I feel like if you don't have the proper +5 or whatnot, you should be automatically moved down the list.

Also, maybe a checkbox that autoclaims when it's your turn?

Regardless the whole guild thing in WvW is kinda broken atm.

Edited July 1, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[oatsnjuices.1698]

Another thing that I would like to see is one person guild quests to allow for easier guild upgrades. I have a personal guild, but it's almost impossible to get enough questing done by myself. It'd be really cool to have something like that.

[Gorani.7205]

On 7/1/2023 at 6:02 PM, Reincarnated.1754 said:

My suggestion is: If those in the queue leave the area, they get removed from the queue.

Problem: What if there is more than one guild member participating in the event.

I am not sure how the algorithm determines who gets to be put in the queue and what spot. In my experience pretty much everything can happen, like I single handedly took a camp, killing every NPC, two allies run into the circle and I am in the third spot to claim. 🤷‍♂️

[Reincarnated.1754]

Thanks for all your replies guys.

I took some assumptions:

One being: When a camp was taken, the queue related to just those in the camp.

Another: Closing the box, removed that person in the camp from the queue.

Has someone done a "For science" test? To see to confirm they stay in the queue after closing the box?

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

Has someone done a "For science" test? To see to confirm they stay in the queue after closing the box?

Yes. have had times with multiple claimers from the same guild and all were told to decline but someone mis-heard and we had people claim by accident after the player driving say we are not claiming this one, close it out.

[Reincarnated.1754]

19 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Yes. have had times with multiple claimers from the same guild and all were told to decline but someone mis-heard and we had people claim by accident after the player driving say we are not claiming this one, close it out.

How did that test it?

This is not a true test if you are in blob, a true test is 3 people 3 different guild rep. 2 at the front of the queue close the box.

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 minutes ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

How did that test it?

This is not a true test if you are in blob, a true test is 3 people 3 different guild rep. 2 at the front of the queue close the box.

Curious, why would you think more numbers at an objective would impact the test since only three guilds would come up anyway? That and when I was referring to this its usually a group of pugs closing in on the same target, though I haven't seen differences in behaviors while zerg surfing either.

Sorry I thought you meant one guild claim closing out all claims for the same guild. Which I have not seen happen even while having 6 of us all have claim rights. My guild is small and we allow more people to claim incase were are all out roaming on different maps. As far as multiple guilds, quite often have a claim right when the three guilds come up, don't ask me if that makes sense since it doesn't considering how often there are more of others than my guild. But if you take actual game play over a decade, if in the third claim spot, have never seen the time end early. If you consider that the dialog blocks some view I would really doubt anyone just runs off and leaves it open in front of where they are travelling unless they plan on waiting out the time to claim the objective in the second or third spot.  Odds are more than good all the claimers that had the dialog pop up more than likely closed the screen versus leaving their view blocked if they weren't planning on claiming. If you miss your claim window you do have to wait out the other two in line before you can claim. What I don't remember is the opposite test. If you cancel and re-open can you still claim within your 15 second block. Will try and test that tonight, I want to say yes, but that would also show cancelling does nothing to the actual count down timer.

[Reincarnated.1754]

16 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Will try and test that tonight, I want to say yes, but that would also show cancelling does nothing to the actual count down timer.

As I have said, I have come back to WvW, after not doing it for a long time. I don't know anyone on the same server as me in different guilds. Otherwise I would do the test.

I hope you are able to do definitive test, to confirm or not my assumptions. One of my other assumptions was that Arenanet put the queue box there with some intelligence for this reason.

I know if I was to leave the queue box open and no one claims the camp, I could be half way across the map before it times out.

I know I don't always explain things enough, I remember suggesting coloured commander tags once, and no one had a clue what I was on about. 

[XenesisII.1540]

I tested this a while back, I was the only person in my guild on, closing the box does nothing, the timer still runs down in order, you can click on the objective to see who's the current 3 in line for claims.

Ultimately I think they should just reduce the first claims lineup down to just 1 guild instead of 3 guilds. No one really cares who claims what at this point, we just want the +5 supply and be on our way.

Edited August 26, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Reincarnated.1754]

I have come to the conclusion that the logic behind the calming system makes no sense what so ever.

If you want to clam a supply depot so you can carry 20 supplies. If there large guild is on the map who have clamed keeps or towers, you have to wate for the counter to count down through all the guilds before you can upgrade it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:54 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

I tested this a while back, I was the only person in my guild on, closing the box does nothing, the timer still runs down in order, you can click on the objective to see who's the current 3 in line for claims.

Ultimately I think they should just reduce the first claims lineup down to just 1 guild instead of 3 guilds. No one really cares who claims what at this point, we just want the +5 supply and be on our way.

 

6 minutes ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

I have come to the conclusion that the logic behind the calming system makes no sense what so ever.

If you want to clam a supply depot so you can carry 20 supplies. If there large guild is on the map who have clamed keeps or towers, you have to wate for the counter to count down through all the guilds before you can upgrade it.

I was slack, did the same test as Xen and missed replying. Cancel just removes the UI. As far as the logic, random is hard to program for. Its seems like the pattern is something in line with how many are there for a guild that can claim. My guild is small but we allow most members to claim since we have a lot of roamers but when we group we seem to get a lot of options to claim. That or it's some factor on how often people claim. I jump our claim around a lot if people haven't claimed so that we can get tactics and improvements in place and once there move it to the next objective that needs upgrades.

To Xen's point, I don't mind the three level process but that's due to trying to also block some trolling of tactics/improvements that have I have seen in some pairings, but the middle ground might be to reduce the timer to 5 seconds for each iteration. That might meet both issues. 

[Reincarnated.1754]

20 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

I was slack, did the same test as Xen and missed replying. Cancel just removes the UI. As far as the logic, random is hard to program for. Its seems like the pattern is something in line with how many are there for a guild that can claim. My guild is small but we allow most members to claim since we have a lot of roamers but when we group we seem to get a lot of options to claim. That or it's some factor on how often people claim. I jump our claim around a lot if people haven't claimed so that we can get tactics and improvements in place and once there move it to the next objective that needs upgrades.

To Xen's point, I don't mind the three level process but that's due to trying to also block some trolling of tactics/improvements that have I have seen in some pairings, but the middle ground might be to reduce the timer to 5 seconds for each iteration. That might meet both issues. 

This is how I think it works:

Who ever has tagged (Killed a mob) at the Objective gets put on a list of qualifiers. (some one can tag an objective and go elsewhere on the map they don't have to stay once they have tagged it.)

When the Objective is taken whoever is on the qualifier list will get credit. Also the list of qualifiers gets arrange into a priority list. Those who are members of a larger guild gets put at the top of the list.

I understand that that the guild priority may have been a good way to stop a lot of individuals from calming important Objectives, and I believe this it why it was implemented. But things have changed in the way things work in WvW, It is only the tactics that matter to a large guild. the rest is automatic, if I got this right.

So I think it is time for an update. perhaps the supply depots and towers could be put on a lower tier to the Keeps and castle. (well they are, I have put a lot of effort getting my guild upgrades)

A simple improvement could be that only the people in the circle of a supply camp are added to the list of qualifiers. It would not be a hard thing to code, the trigger for being in a circle is already there.

And of course make the Dialogue Box work for those in the circle.

 

It is just so irrorating having to wait to be able to carry 20 supplies. If there was a commander, that commander is on the other side of the map by the time the timer has gone.

Not all play WvW the same way:

• Some big guilds just want a lot of cannon fodder to follow there commanders.
• Some big guilds train the members to do the right thing.
• Then there are the smaller guilds that want to do there own thing.

I'll leave it at that. (I don't want this thread kicked).

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

This is how I think it works:

Who ever has tagged (Killed a mob) at the Objective gets put on a list of qualifiers. (some one can tag an objective and go elsewhere on the map they don't have to stay once they have tagged it.)

Agree... but I think it counts only those that can claim, and agree you don't have to stay if you already have credit, which I don't think is a bad thing since it handles those that were there and people coming by late the same and I think that is a positive.

4 hours ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

Also the list of qualifiers gets arrange into a priority list. Those who are members of a larger guild gets put at the top of the list.

This is where I think the list is more built from the number of claimers as I have seen two of us get claim rights above a group of ten of another guild at the same objective. But both of us had claim rights and not certain on the other group which is a much bigger guild. Not saying that I have figured out the priority, just what I have observed.

4 hours ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

I understand that that the guild priority may have been a good way to stop a lot of individuals from calming important Objectives, and I believe this it why it was implemented.

Part of the priority might also be in guild rank, another that I haven't tested, may need to rep one of my bank guilds to better try that out. Agree a priority list is probably intended for various reason such as ensuring the claims will have higher buffs and prevent some trolling.

For others that might just hit this thread from a search:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild#Guild_level

4 hours ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

But things have changed in the way things work in WvW, It is only the tactics that matter to a large guild. the rest is automatic, if I got this right.

Guild auras are important in claims as well. The Objective Aura can be important and is worth going after in all size guilds. I think this does play a factor in claim rights.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_upgrade

4 hours ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

A simple improvement could be that only the people in the circle of a supply camp are added to the list of qualifiers. It would not be a hard thing to code, the trigger for being in a circle is already there.

And of course make the Dialogue Box work for those in the circle.

Could see a change in list and bias to those that do the final cap as a factor.

4 hours ago, Reincarnated.1754 said:

It is just so irrorating having to wait to be able to carry 20 supplies. 

🙂 Have also waited for all the timers to tick down to be able to claim so that the objective would get a +5 for sups. Though what is worse is when it is claimed and the guild doesn't have Aura 1 (+5 supply). That also makes me shake my head. 

 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:38 AM, Reincarnated.1754 said:

This is how I think it works:

Who ever has tagged (Killed a mob) at the Objective gets put on a list of qualifiers. (some one can tag an objective and go elsewhere on the map they don't have to stay once they have tagged it.)

When the Objective is taken whoever is on the qualifier list will get credit. Also the list of qualifiers gets arrange into a priority list. Those who are members of a larger guild gets put at the top of the list.

I can recall plenty of times I was the only one on in my guild, I come in near the last tick and still get 1st choice, so dont think this is accurate

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Most of the time claim works on damage, unless there are multiple members of the same guild then it goes by numbers, unless a smaller number of people in the same guild outdamages a larger number of people in the same guild (seen it happen a few times with my guild vs. some of the allied PPT/k-train guilds).

There are random times when someone can run into circle at last moment and get first claim or if someone killed everything and went elsewhere, could still get first claim despite not being present at cap time.

I don't see an issue with the queue system because if you are just clouding then why should you get claim over anyone else? Even if you are instead with a group/guild but not doing meaningful damage (might be on PvE gear) why should you get claim? 

Also, closing the box does nothing, it literally is just to get it off your screen and has no bearing on dequeuing guilds--so hopefully you aren't yelling at people in-game to close the box 😂.

Finally, waiting around for 20 supps while the rest leave isn't the best practice when you could instead teleport to a keep or EBG and get 25 then go wherever you want.  Chances are if you are following a train that isn't claiming anything those 5 extra supps won't matter because there's enough people to cover it.  

Worse part for me is when no one claims.  That's bad for a lot of reasons (like the upgrade timer not starting)--the +5 being the least of all.  

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Most of the time claim works on damage, unless there are multiple members of the same guild then it goes by numbers, unless a smaller number of people in the same guild outdamages a larger number of people in the same guild (seen it happen a few times with my guild vs. some of the allied PPT/k-train guilds).

I don't think so, have seen two of us gain claim rights over 20 of them. I would love to think I do more damage , but not that vain and can't afford drugs that would lead to that level of delusions. This to me would seem to be a factor that couldn't be shared without giving more info to spies and trolls. 

For now I sill think it comes down to the number of potential claimers at the capture point that could claim.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I don't think so, have seen two of us gain claim rights over 20 of them. I would love to think I do more damage , but not that vain and can't afford drugs that would lead to that level of delusions. This to me would seem to be a factor that couldn't be shared without giving more info to spies and trolls. 

For now I sill think it comes down to the number of potential claimers at the capture point that could claim.

If two of you are same guild and the 20 are not, then you will get it due to guild grouping priority.

If not, it's still not hard to outdamage a cloud group of 20--a guild group of 20 I've never seen not get top claim no matter what.  

The damage thing is easyish to prove, just run arc and run some kind of raid rotation to ensure you do like 20k+/s+ dps to whatever lord---you'll get top claim.  

[Reincarnated.1754]

One thing I have learned in this game is: The Dev.'s do not tell you how things work. I think it's because they try to make it work a certain way, but not always get it right.

Any ways I think something needs to be done for the minority, the few, people that don't want to bow to big guild leaders. Do what AHs say (I must remember not to use words that the Moderators have made into bad words, lets say AHs=AmpHenrys 🙂

What I am trying to say is "Big Guilds" set rules to join, there run by people that have a Power complex. Even if it is a big guild, there not on a map 24-7.

At the end of the day for a small group using Guild Seage, if they have the +20. (which they have to earn) it only takes two players to build a Seage Weapon.

You can play as a blob, so all you have to do is run around pressing 1.

Some may like to do it Role-Play (yes I said it), what I mean is sneakily (eleat group). Actually have fun playing, not just in it for the points and gold.

Hope they can fit it in when there change to WvW Team/Guid selection.

It's been nice to read all your comments, but I only have my Leggy gloves to get, then I may take another 4 years away form WvW.