Can you please limit the matchmaking system to tier rank

[Sahne.6950]

2 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

But why can't good players play against other good players?

There is simply not enough good players.

[razaelll.8324]

45 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I don't have a problem with duo que if its actually done right; rating goes on highest player, matchmaking is fixed so that plat/high gold duo will never face silver EVER. I actually think full pre-made should be a thing, with an actual decent matchmaking system based on the highest player rating. However, it seems people here are scared of full premades, I assume due to the developers failed attempts to get it rigth leaving the vets with pre-made ptsd or something. WOW did premade arena for years, it had its class based balance issues, but the actual system was very good, all things considered. ''Plat rating climbers'' will always be something you will see here and their, joining new teams etc, even seen it in wow. Difference with wow is that once you got to a certain level, you were matched with players much closer to that level, unless you were in a dead server (I think they then also introduced more servers into the same zone to help adress the issue). Point is, I've seen what a decent matchmaking system looks like, and Gw2 falls FAR short, genuinely far short.

 

There is no wonder bots/afkers are so common in this ranked, even in gold, as they can be carried and held in higher elos through this rediculous RNG matchmaking. That alone is a solid reason for tier based matchmaking, so all the bots, afkers and out right troller/selfish players can sink to low bronze. Sure that will suck for somebody who is a newb and might end up in low bronze, but again.. its a numbers game. Why subject 80% of the middle playerbase to this (and to being qued with plats on the other end). Putting this burden on the majority of the pvp playerbase I can garuntee is unhealthy for playerbase retention, how is spvp playerbase doing?... was kitten long before cata.

 

Now I barely even see any good players, As gold 2, at least six of the players Im matched with were very clearly bronze/low silver at best, 20 games in a row. Maybe the good players left becuase of cata, but that's just the iceneing on the shitcake. There will always be a broken spec that good players will abuse, its better to let them climb with a capped matchmaking system, where they then impact the fewest people possible. As said in other threads, a brainded cata/scrapper/sb is a free kill to a compitant player on just about any class.. the bad bandwaggon players will no longer get carried by the actual good players, and will fall to where they belong. So then, you won't have those games where the very good SB on mid, is basically stunlocking the kitten out of everything, indirectly protecting that noob condi cata/necro/meser or w/e.. who essentially spams auto attacks.

 

 

 

 

I strongly disagree with you as I said, and WoW has its own issues which I don't really wish to discuss. SoloQ just does not work well with restricted matchmaking if you don't have enought players , I am sorry but that's the reality which can be seen in all MMOs which have SoloQ systems. At this point I see no point in continuing the discussion since we are just running in circles so let's just agree to disagree.

 

Have a good day mate.

Edited July 11, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[Bazsi.2734]

23 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

But why can't good players play against other good players? What wr have now is plat going up against silvers and gold 1 alot of the time. That just not fair.

If there are other good players playing, they will be against each other. But as time passes, the matchmaking is less and less strict with who can enter the matchup. If it's platinum vs silver, that means someone waited 8-10 minutes for a qpop(which means someone already spends more time waiting than playing). You solve this by revitalising the gamemode, not by putting weird restrictions on it.
Just think about it, how many of us veterans would still play PvP if we had to wait 15-30 minutes just for one qpop? Climbing to the top should be something people aspire to do, not something to avoid lmao. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[TheQuickFox.3826]

This should be a choice. I usually don't care about mixing and matching but it makes matches more random so there are very good reasons why players prefer to wait for a match withing their own skill rating. However, when you play at off-times you may be faced with an infinite queue if there are not enough players queuing to fill two teams of the same ranking.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

If there are other good players playing, they will be against each other. But as time passes, the matchmaking is less and less strict with who can enter the matchup. If it's platinum vs silver, that means someone waited 8-10 minutes for a qpop(which means someone already spends more time waiting than playing). You solve this by revitalising the gamemode, not by putting weird restrictions on it.
Just think about it, how many of us veterans would still play PvP if we had to wait 15-30 minutes just for one qpop? Climbing to the top should be something people aspire to do, not something to avoid lmao. 

How you can say that not putting plats against silvers is ''weird restrictions'', I do not know. Top end players will always have to wait longer, its just the law of numbers.. it is no excuse to put them against silvers just becuase the playerbase is not big enough to support the top 5% getting games in less than 10 min. It is a complete and utter elitist system right now.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Bazsi.2734]

29 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

How you can say that not putting plats against silvers is ''weird restrictions'', I do not know.

Because giving players games is priority over making them excessively fair. How is this so hard to comprehend?

29 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Top end players will always have to wait longer, its just the law of numbers.. it is no excuse to put them against silvers just becuase the playerbase is not big enough to support the top 5% getting games in less than 10 min.

It is though. There is noone else q-ing, you either get a game with huge skill differences, or you're not getting a game at all. And once players start leaving due to waiting times being too long, nobody is getting games anymore.

29 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 It is a complete and utter elitist system right now.

Yes it is. Ranked PvP was always about elitism. That's the point.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Because giving players games is priority over making them excessively fair. How is this so hard to comprehend?

It is though. There is noone else q-ing, you either get a game with huge skill differences, or you're not getting a game at all. And once players start leaving due to waiting times being too long, nobody is getting games anymore.

Yes it is. Ranked PvP was always about elitism. That's the point.

So quantity over quality is essentially what you advocate, while never conceding that the massive skill gap might actually be a reason a playerbase drops. Nobody likes getting their kitten handed to them over and over again, nobody likes having newbs on their team over and over again. I agree both my virsion and your virsion can lead to people quitting pvp.. but for whole different reasons.

 

Fair compition is not at all the same thing as elitism. When you have a ranked system that puts the best players in the gaame against average and lower as almost standard, that then is the realm of elitism, for those who actaully condone it.

 

 

And btw do not forget that I said ''option'' to not play with these players. A little check box that says ''only match me with people within my rank elo (1-2-3)''. I for one don't mind at all waiting 10 min for a game, if it is gold vs gold, or what ever my true rank turns out to be. I can tell you one thing at least, that finishing the average game with 30-40% team damage means I am not getting competitive and fair games, for me or the enemy. Im not even a great dps either, far better on support.. but support is unplayable when you constantly get RNG newb dps one game, pro dps the next, land slide after landslide one way or the other.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Eddbopkins.2630]

4 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Climbing to the top should be something people aspire to do, not something to avoid lmao. 

Your right it should be. But when mat titles and accounts are sold for titles of pvp it devalues the ladder to the point where I just want games of equal caliber. Not what we have had for years.

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

So quantity over quality is essentially what you advocate, while never conceding that the massive skill gap might actually be a reason a playerbase drops. Nobody likes getting their kitten handed to them over and over again, nobody likes having newbs on their team over and over again. I agree both my virsion and your virsion can lead to people quitting pvp.. but for whole different reasons.

My vision? I'm just explaining why things are the way they are. Prioritising giving games at all over only giving fair games to players leads to greater player retention. That's why matchmaking is built like it is. It's not my vision, it's just reality.

My vision was for a-net not to abandon the gamemode for 5+ years. That is what caused the huge dip in player numbers. Less players --> worse matchmaking. The drop in match quality starts to drive people away, becomes a selfpropagating cycle. There is nothing you can do to matchmaking that would fix this.

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Fair compition is not at all the same thing as elitism. When you have a ranked system that puts the best players in the gaame against average and lower as almost standard, that then is the realm of elitism, for those who actaully condone it.

Elitism = the belief that a society or system should be led by an elite. sPvP is the nieche for this very competetive, ego driven minority. Nothing else in this game is for them, as it's a feel-good kumbaya hand-heldy colorful themepark with participation rewards. If you compromise their ability to dominate the gamemode with fair play, most(if not all) of them would leave. And we all know what happens to a community(not just a gaming one, any community really) where the top talent is constantly forced to leave.

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

And btw do not forget that I said ''option'' to not play with these players. A little check box that says ''only match me with people within my rank elo (1-2-3)''.

This is just irrelevant fluff that changes nothing. Everyone not ragequitting PvP after a onesided stomp will have that box checked.

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I for one don't mind at all waiting 10 min for a game, if it is gold vs gold, or what ever my true rank turns out to be. 

I do. Sometimes I log in at an irregular hour, wait for 6-7 minutes for a qpop, then close the game. I could do literally anything else with my free time, yet here I am looking at a counter slowly ticking past triple of the estimated waiting time... 

So my final comment is this: when the main problem of PvP is a massive lack of players, you can't possibly fix it by excluding further players from it. 

[Flowki.7194]

24 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

My vision? I'm just explaining why things are the way they are. Prioritising giving games at all over only giving fair games to players leads to greater player retention. That's why matchmaking is built like it is. It's not my vision, it's just reality.

My vision was for a-net not to abandon the gamemode for 5+ years. That is what caused the huge dip in player numbers. Less players --> worse matchmaking. The drop in match quality starts to drive people away, becomes a selfpropagating cycle. There is nothing you can do to matchmaking that would fix this.

Elitism = the belief that a society or system should be led by an elite. sPvP is the nieche for this very competetive, ego driven minority. Nothing else in this game is for them, as it's a feel-good kumbaya hand-heldy colorful themepark with participation rewards. If you compromise their ability to dominate the gamemode with fair play, most(if not all) of them would leave. And we all know what happens to a community(not just a gaming one, any community really) where the top talent is constantly forced to leave.

This is just irrelevant fluff that changes nothing. Everyone not ragequitting PvP after a onesided stomp will have that box checked.

I do. Sometimes I log in at an irregular hour, wait for 6-7 minutes for a qpop, then close the game. I could do literally anything else with my free time, yet here I am looking at a counter slowly ticking past triple of the estimated waiting time... 

So my final comment is this: when the main problem of PvP is a massive lack of players, you can't possibly fix it by excluding further players from it. 

If you want fast games the leave that option unchecked... that would be your choice.

[Bazsi.2734]

4 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

If you want fast games the leave that option unchecked... that would be your choice.

And be matched by noone because everyone else is way below me and have it checked to dodge me. Stop pretending you have solutions.

[Copyright.9082]

14 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I could do literally anything else with my free time, yet here I am looking at a counter slowly ticking past triple of the estimated waiting time... 
 

Just sitting there, in complete darkness, the only light being the blue light emanating from that screen projecting on your futile hopium that endless timer.  

[Shao.7236]

It won't do anything. The system already has that rule set in place except not at the extreme level that would prevent players from ever playing.

Bring more players in the game and you'll have people of the same rating playing against each other again.

[Flowki.7194]

On 7/11/2023 at 9:45 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

And be matched by noone because everyone else is way below me and have it checked to dodge me. Stop pretending you have solutions.

Na, it genuienly sounds like you are holding onto the current system because it benefits you, at the expense of the majority. You are then jumping into assumtpions, and framing worse case scnecarios that only line up with your argument; bias. There will be people up and down the rank system who care nothing about rating, and will que with anybody. For those like me, who want to ''avoid you''.. why the hell would I not want to avoid a player who has played the game 10x longer than me, and is far, far better than me in pvp? My motivation to play pvp is for competitive, team based games. Others don't care about that (very clearly) and will que with all. Let them.

 

Also your comment on elitism. PVE players have just as much ego, they love to compare dps numbers. People who collect achievements/titles are the same, its just a more subtle way. Nobody that you or I are likely to ever meet are expempt from ego.

 

In pve, they try to adress DPS issues, and keep people at a relitively similar level, you could call that dps communism. In ranked, we don't care that plats regularly play against and destroy gold/silvers becuase plats want fast games; elitism.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 7/11/2023 at 1:59 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

There is simply not enough good players.

Better grieve the remaining player population thanks to lack of good players. The whole "poor good players"argument is literally advocating for leeching of the remaining Player base. There is not enough good player to sustain themselves, what value lies in appeasing 150 People, for no return?

Edited July 13, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[Flowki.7194]

16 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Better grieve the remaining player population thanks to lack of good players. The whole "poor good players"argument is literally advocating for leeching of the remaining Player base. There is not enough good player to sustain themselves, what value lies in appeasing 150 People, for no return?

That is the perfect statement.. skilled players (through no fault of  their own) are ''leaching'' off of the fun of everybody else, for fast games.

[Bazsi.2734]

44 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Better grieve the remaining player population thanks to lack of good players. The whole "poor good players"argument is literally advocating for leeching of the remaining Player base. There is not enough good player to sustain themselves, what value lies in appeasing 150 People, for no return?

You guys are legit argueing that it's bad to have players around who are actually good at the game. It's evident what's the next metabuilds will be just from reading the patchnotes, yet most of you need builds and guides to spell it out for you - guess who makes them? The bugs and exploits that regularily get into their patches lately... who has the ability to quickly and accurately report them? Feedback on balance - which one matters more: top players saying mirage is undertuned, or mr. silver 2 saying all condis should be deleted from the game?
If you think having the top players around is a net bad(pun intended, god I'm so funny), you have no idea how anything works. 
 

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Na, it genuienly sounds like you are holding onto the current system because it benefits you, at the expense of the majority...
 ...dps communism... 
...elitism.

Dude weed lmao. I am holding onto the PvP capital, unwilling to let anyone own the means of... climbing or some sh*t. I'm the PvP bourgeoisie, profiting off of the ratings of the low rated! I'm selfish, I'm shifty and I won't ever acknowledge that I am the problem, I won't ever move aside! ONE PRECENT REPRESENT! 😆

[SlayerXX.7138]

44 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

You guys are legit argueing that it's bad to have players around who are actually good at the game. It's evident what's the next metabuilds will be just from reading the patchnotes, yet most of you need builds and guides to spell it out for you - guess who makes them? The bugs and exploits that regularily get into their patches lately... who has the ability to quickly and accurately report them? Feedback on balance - which one matters more: top players saying mirage is undertuned, or mr. silver 2 saying all condis should be deleted from the game?
If you think having the top players around is a net bad(pun intended, god I'm so funny), you have no idea how anything works. 

No, I say the top 200 leeches of the Player base via the matchmaker. The range is too big and you have to sit down and wait. I honestly don't know how Anet even justifies PvP balance Patches right now to be honest. They are mostly aimed at top player, so 200 people times 2 for each region. That is a meager 400 People. Mister CmC does cost money you know. Don't know if 400 People can pay that bill.
I can't even talk about the top 250 because there are not enough plats to fill the leaderboard anymore. It is a Joke. Nobody gonna play the game you have invested so much time in, when the Matches are so out of balance. Simple as that. You can accept that, or play in your own filth for a year maybe two.
 

Edited July 13, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[razaelll.8324]

8 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

No, I say the top 200 leeches of the Player base via the matchmaker. The range is too big and you have to sit down and wait. I honestly don't know how Anet even justifies PvP balance Patches right now to be honest. They are mostly aimed at top player, so 200 people times 2 for each region. That is a meager 400 People. Mister CmC does cost money you know. Don't know if 400 People can pay that bill.
I can't even talk about the top 250 because there are not enough plats to fill the leaderboard anymore. It is a Joke. Nobody gonna play the game you have invested so much time in, when the Matches are so out of balance. Simple as that. You can accept that, or play in your own filth for a year maybe two.
 

You sound like the matchmaking is the only thing which drives people away from PvP. That is not the case. Are you willing to improve or not is not going to be solved by matchmaking so please stop searching for excuses and try to blame the game and everything else for stuff which are in your own control. You have the means to learn improve your self and get better so you dont get stomped by better players.

When there were more people into PvP and the matchmaking were matching people from the same league only, nobody complained about that part of the match making but still people left PvP, why is that? Because of class swapping which bypass the match making, because of duoQ , botting especially in low ratings ,slow and rare balance patches and lack of attention and new stuff in spvp. That are the main reasons which led people to leave pvp and after they left the matchmaking became a problem because there are not enough players. 

The matchmaking system currently tries to find people around your MMR , if it cannot then it starts looking for other people so it can reduce the queue times. Is that perfect , no its not because it leads to less quality matches but it reduces the queue times.  If you restrict now the matchmaking to search for people only from your own bracket that will lead to very bad queue times and some players wont even have matches because some brackets simply dont have enough players which will make even more people to quit trying to play SPvP. Another community member mentioned that this experiment was done before by ANET and it didnt led to much improvements in terms of match quality but it increased queue times dramatically so the result was more negative than positive. I my self gave you an example with a MMO which does that and the PvP suffer there even more. FF14 matchmaking matches bronze silver and mid gold together , then high gold with plat and crystal. the queue times in the lower bracket are around 3-7  minutes (during peak gaming time for the region, 30+ minutes for off time) the queue times in the high bracket are 20min + (during the peak gaming time and no queues at all during off hours) so most of the people including me when reach plat and above just stop queuing for ranked and play unranked instead, which further increases the queue times in the high bracket. When you queue and see average wait time 30+ minutes, you just simply unqueue and do something else. Same thing happend with Lost ark ranked pvp.

Nobody here is holding for the current matchmaking because he wants easy stomps , experienced people can just queue unranked and stomp everybody there if they want easy stomps.

TLDR. Restricted matchmaking IS the best case scenario but it need enough players in order to not have very big negative impact on the queue times which have big negative impact on participation, so in conclusion in order for this to work we need to bring more people back into spvp and that will happen only if the problems above start getting addressed. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[SlayerXX.7138]

@razaelll.8324Please spare me the speech about "getting good". I'm Gold 3. The whole mentality that only Plat Players are real Players is 80% of the reason PvP dies. Yes class swapping is uncompetitive, door should be closed and scoreboard hidden or something. If you think that has an effect on the Popularity of the mode for casuals you need to touch grass.

Also I need a source on it wasn't a Problem before. Top player showing up in games they shouldn't be is a Problem for years now. It is only has gotten worse now.

Edited July 14, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[razaelll.8324]

36 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

@razaelll.8324Please spare me the speech about "getting good". I'm Gold 3. The whole mentality that only Plat Players are real Players is 80% of the reason PvP dies. Yes class swapping is uncompetitive, door should be closed and scoreboard hidden or something. If you think that has an effect on the Popularity of the mode for casuals you need to touch grass.

Also I need a source on it wasn't a Problem before. Top player showing up in games they shouldn't be is a Problem for years now. It is only has gotten worse now.

Please read carefully what I wrote and comment again

 

36 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

The whole mentality that only Plat Players are real Players is 80% of the reason PvP dies.

Never claimed that nor said it... As I said I am gold too. Everybody is a real player and deserve equal chance to play.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

35 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Also I need a source on it wasn't a Problem before.

The source is how the matchmaking algo works. When there were more players the matchmaking algo actually managed to make teams with players only from the same bracket ... 2 years ago in my matches in EU i fought only against people in my bracket because the pvp populations was much higher and the MM managed to do much more quality fights and it was much more rare gold players to be matched with plat and etc. You can read in the WIKI how exactly the MM works. Thats why so many people are telling you that we need more players and in order to bring back more players ANET need to adress some major problems mentioned in my previous post.

Edited July 14, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

TLDR. Restricted matchmaking IS the best case scenario but it need enough players in order to not have very big negative impact on the queue times which have big negative impact on participation, so in conclusion in order for this to work we need to bring more people back into spvp and that will happen only if the problems above start getting addressed. 

Have you ever considered that more people would play, or return to spvp if the matchmaking system wasn't such a pointless joke that only truly benefits plat duo que dodgers chasing meaningless titles for internet ipeen (think I got that right)?

 

Right now, you actually get punished as a solo player the higher your rank gets, becuase by the law of numbers (rank distribution) the team mates and enemy skill gap will only increase.. not decrease. This means you faceroll half of the games with 30% team damage.. and then get facerolled the next game. Ironically, in defeats I mostly end up doing more like 35/40% team damage, since the newer players on team get wiped out so fast. So what are we all learning here? apart from bigger skills gaps results in players getting wiped out in seconds? such fun for all.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[razaelll.8324]

8 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Have you ever considered that more people would play, or return to spvp if the matchmaking system wasn't such a pointless joke that only truly benefits plat duo que dodgers?

i did and i gave you 2 reasons why i dont believe that will happen also another community manager gave you information of a test performed which actually had more negative impact than positive which furtur prove why we first need more players and then restrict the matchmaking (but if we have mroe players the MM will automatically make much more quality matches without restrictions because its designed this way, you can check the WIKI). I already told you that multiple times, so please read carefully the posts.

  

8 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Right now, you actually get punished as a solo player the higher your rank gets, becuase by the law of numbers (rank distribution) the team mates and enemy skill gap will only increase.. not decrease. This means you faceroll half of the games with 30% team damage.. and then get facerolled the next game. Ironically, in defeats I mostly end up doing more like 35/40% team damage, since the newer players on team get wiped out so fast. So what are we all learning here? apart from bigger skills gaps results in players getting wiped out in seconds? such fun for all.

What you learn depends on you and how do you analyze the situation. Nobody can teach you anything no matter the match making if you are not willing to learn  and if you are willing to learn you have enough instruments to do so. I am not punished by the machmaking , i am punished by the devs which dont pay enough attention to sPvP, by allowing matchmaking manipulation, bots , rare balance and etc. with the curren population the match making is "expecting" the higher rating people to carry the lower rating, i complitelly understand that this is not very desirable , but restricting the matchmaking will not fix that but reduce even more the already low spvp playerbase in my opinion which is based on reasons and examples given in my previous posts.

Edited July 14, 2023 by razaelll.8324

[SlayerXX.7138]

46 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Please read carefully what I wrote and comment again

Why should I read it again buddy? To read your cope again? Yes, Duo Q and bots need to go as well, but the matchmaker range is as harmful as them. Especially Duo Q in combination with the gigantic range make for heinous matches.

42 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

The source is how the matchmaking algo works. When there were more players the matchmaking algo actually managed to make teams with players only from the same bracket ... 2 years ago in my matches in EU i fought only against people in my bracket because the pvp populations was much higher and the MM managed to do much more quality fights and it was much more rare gold players to be matched with plat and etc. You can read in the WIKI how exactly the MM works. Thats why so many people are telling you that we need more players and in order to bring back more players ANET need to adress some major problems mentioned in my previous post.

I know how a matchmaker functions, thank you very much. You basically saying: Yes it was a Problem, but it did not affect me and the following lower Player numbers are unrelated to that. That is not an argument, it is wishful thinking. It is all nonono don't touch me, please manifest new player out of thin air, who are willing to deal with that BS.
The statement about fairer matches being bad and not affecting Match quality from a dev 8(?) years ago, can you put where the sun doesn't shine.
 

Edited July 14, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138