My thoughts on GW 2 as an MMO enjoyer (including WOW)

[Xariann.5071]

I am writing this mostly as a review(ish) for other people who are considering coming back or want to get into GW2.

I played this at launch and a lot has changed. I played many other MMOs, WOW has been the one I played the most, but I also played for a good amount of time SWTOR, ESO, Aion, Final Fantasy XIV, Lost Ark, Star Trek Online, New World, Wildstar, TERA, Warframe. I played some games more recently than others.

So I am coming at this with the perspective of someone who has interacted with different approaches to similar things.

Do I Like the Game?

Absolutely, I like the combat, the story, most of the voice acting, the visuals (although some areas are looking a bit old after so many years), the amount of stuff to do. Lack of FOMO from evergreen content means the game respects your time, although there are drawback to horizontal progression which I will get to later. 

It suffers a bit from "it gets better later". Having said that, while you can buy a boost to skip the story in core Tyria and reach max level, I still enjoyed what I did in core Tyria, and the game gives you plenty of reasons to revisit all the zones, both old and new. 

I like how class spells look, and Guild Wars 2 has a lot of unique mechanics you don't see on other games. Their take on class fantasies is also very interesting and each class has a strong identity.

Moment to Moment Gameplay and Open World

I honestly struggle to think of an open world experience that is as engaging as Guild Wars 2's. One moment you are finding vistas, the next you are caught into an event, then you are gathering something, whether it be a piece of wood or a Hero Point. There is a lot to do. The combat feels dynamic and I shunned it in the past for feeling too floaty. I still think that compared to WOW or New World, it still is a bit floaty. But I got used to it and I find it rather engaging. I like the hybrid target/action system, which is better than just tab targeting, like what you find in SWTOR and WOW. I also think it's better implemented than the hybrid system you get in ESO, but I heard there were a few combat updates since I last played it.

When you compare it to the late Wildstar or New World however, I probably lean towards these two more. Well, Wildstar is gone, but if you played it, at least you have a reference. I like a certain amount of telegraphing so I liked TERA a bit less, that's more because I tunnel vision a bit, and TERA was less forgiving of that.

I'm terms of accessibility, I find GW 2 combat much easier to get into than say Black Desert Online. In fact I tried getting back into BDO after they recently added cinematic story and my brain just melts with the combos. That's why I suck at Street Fighter (although I played it since I was a kid so it remains a favourite) and I play it with the more accessible controls.

But GW2 combat also takes time to actually master but I feel my brain can actually get to that stage eventually.

I also appreciate that I am not having to learn the piano like I would in FF XIV, which remains a tab target game that tries to add complexity through rotation and complicated dances which often you have to execute in a specific order (it depends on the encounter). I am thinking that FFXIV players are probably going to wind up with very good memory in their older age. I am more of a reactive player that likes to act in the moment.

Story

I am a long term Mass Effect fan, so story-driven content, when done well, is right up my alley. I like games like SWTOR and ESO.  When Warframe came out with story, I went and played it. Final Fantasy XIV has incredible story but... I just can't get into some of its aesthetics, and humour wise, I prefer seeing Taimi leave a botched recording on the floor somewhere in Heart of Thorns, than... Seeing flying pigs appear out of nowhere as content filler when big baddy is devouring an entire world. I just don't get along with some of the fantasy and the humour there. There is also a lot of... Waffling in FFXIV, lots of walls of text you click through, I just lose interest eventually because of the presentation and wind up just watching cut scenes. Also the fact that the story is unskippable makes it impossible for me to keep up with friends because I never manage to stick to that game. The problem is that without the story you can't do the current content.

The Core Tyria story was ok, but, compared to the BDO one, it was much better, at least from the perspective of how it is presented. I mean, I didn't get to see the BDO one much because it put me off within a few cutscenes. You wake up, you follow this blonde girl who orders you around and you to what she tells you why? And the way the cut scenes are edited is not polished. I respect the change in direction for BDO, but for me it needs a bit more work.

I like that you get origin stories in GW2, you don't really get that in ESO that much and obviously the base game in SWTOR was all about the origin story. So GW2 loses in the base game compared to SWTOR, but in general the story telling of this game just gets better and better each expansion, while SWTOR has varying degrees of quality throughout the expansions. I enjoyed the ESO story but I have not played it as extensively as SWTOR. I don't remember it as much.

Progression

So the expression "horizontal progression" gets thrown around a lot. Level wise, you hit 80, and you can't get further. Everything released will stay at 80. Gear you get in one expansion doesn't necessarily go out of date later. But you do still get masteries to work towards which don't give you player power in the sense of raw DPS power (if you set aside unlocking specs), but it gives you player power in the sense of open world utility

Generally, a TON of character progression, including specs, is tied behind open world, and you won't be able to do PvE instances content effectively if you don't engage with the open world (or PvP). The way this progression is crafted into the open world however, is done much better than in any other MMO I can think of. The open world feels like part of the endgame, it's lively, it's not just a temporary zone where you do dailies and log out until the next expansion comes up — which makes entire questing areas obsolete.

Systems that have been introduced in certain expansions remain as they are, so if you want to unlock certain mounts, you will have to go through a certain amount of open world content to get them and level them and you can only do that in Path of Fire. 

Once you hit 80 you can do anything in any order if you don't care about story. However, if you do want to follow the story in the exact order it was released, you will not access things that will make the open world easier until quite late. For some this is fine. I keep wishing I had SOME more QoL from later expansions without having to see spoilers, but not so much that it makes the open world completely trivial. Obviously once you have done the story with your first character this conundrum disappears, but until then, there is mountains of content. That's a good thing, mind you.

Arena Net has made a couple of changes, you get the Raptor at level 10 now, but you can't upgrade it until you level up your Mastery in Path of Fire. The way you get the Skyscale will be simplified in August. But the bulk of the mounts still reside with Path of Fire. This means that if you want them as a fresh 80, you have to skip ahead with the story and get potential spoilers.

I am not used to vertical maps, and I will be in the minority, but I find the HOT open world is frustrating. I am sure there will be people who love it, and I think doing it when it came out would feel very different from doing it now. That was your end game at the time, it made sense to work towards unlocking your gliding, your mushrooms etc. But I am not the biggest fun of jumping puzzles, and I feel HOT without mounts is a huge jumping puzzle, and I don't enjoy it. I wound up skipping the story to go straight to PoF for the mounts and will go back after.

As part of a horizontal progression system where other expansions give you better tools, HOT feels left behind and that's the main downside of the horizontal progression system for me. However the MAJOR upside of the horizontal progression, is feeling like 90% of what you do is as relevant today as it was yesterday.

Again, probably in the minority here, I'd rather have just a couple a mounts because swapping all the time is annoying. A ground mount and a flying mount. The Masteries add skills to those two mounts so you don't have to keep swapping between raptor, springer, skimmer, etc. It just feels clunky. I figure that once I get a flying mount the swapping will be lessened.

I have a love and hate relationship with unlocks in general in this game. You don't get access to all your specialisations in PvE. You have to unlock them with expansions and that's fine but... You then have to go around and grab hero points to actually use them (or do a load of WvW PvP). I have just paid for it, can I just have the spec? Or can you make Hero Point collections account wide? So you do it once, then you have those points banked for your next level 80 character? Masteries are account wide, so it's not like you need the experience for them once you hit 80.

Core Tyria completion would be nice account wide but I am not sure how you'd hit 80 without it, I guess if you get a lot of Tomes of Knowledge or you craft a lot you could. Or maybe they could do a modified version of what SWTOR did, which is make the main story XP enough to get you to max. But unlike SWTOR, do it only for alts.

The problem is that then core Tyria will slowly become obsolete, I guess. You'll still have world bosses and dailies. I don't know. Like I said... I have a love and hate relationship with unlocks in this game. They give you lots to do but they also feel a bit frustrating. 

Instanced Content

I can't really speak to this as I have not done it, but what puts me off it mostly is the lack of Trinity. But you have to bring boons. So you still have to care about group composition. From my understanding the tanks are the ones that are basically not needed now, whereas healers are still used, but mostly you want high DPS that also buffs. I would like the Trinity to come into play, I don't think it would impact build diversity more than having to spec for specific boons.

PvP

I have not done much of it.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Xariann.5071

[The Boz.2038]

6 minutes ago, Xariann.5071 said:

It suffers a bit from "it gets better later"

GW had two massive opportunities to pull a (few) Factions-style rapid-onboard 1-79 zones with EoD and now SOTO, and elected to miss them. Sad, tbh, because "going through core tyria is a slog" is the #1 complaint I get from friends that try the game, which then evolves into "HoT is unplayable, everything kills me".

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

GW had two massive opportunities to pull a (few) Factions-style rapid-onboard 1-79 zones with EoD and now SOTO, and elected to miss them. Sad, tbh, because "going through core tyria is a slog" is the #1 complaint I get from friends that try the game, which then evolves into "HoT is unplayable, everything kills me".

With the new character adventure guide it take them what 5 days to do core 1-80 leveling?

No wonder everything in hot kills them.

[Caitmonster.9036]

14 hours ago, Xariann.5071 said:

Again, probably in the minority here, I'd rather have just a couple a mounts because swapping all the time is annoying. A ground mount and a flying mount. The Masteries add skills to those two mounts so you don't have to keep swapping between raptor, springer, skimmer, etc. It just feels clunky. I figure that once I get a flying mount the swapping will be lessened.

I have a love and hate relationship with unlocks in general in this game. You don't get access to all your specialisations in PvE. You have to unlock them with expansions and that's fine but... You then have to go around and grab hero points to actually use them (or do a load of WvW PvP). I have just paid for it, can I just have the spec? Or can you make Hero Point collections account wide? So you do it once, then you have those points banked for your next level 80 character? Masteries are account wide, so it's not like you need the experience for them once you hit 80.

Core Tyria completion would be nice account wide but I am not sure how you'd hit 80 without it, I guess if you get a lot of Tomes of Knowledge or you craft a lot you could. Or maybe they could do a modified version of what SWTOR did, which is make the main story XP enough to get you to max. But unlike SWTOR, do it only for alts.

The problem is that then core Tyria will slowly become obsolete, I guess. You'll still have world bosses and dailies. I don't know. Like I said... I have a love and hate relationship with unlocks in this game. They give you lots to do but they also feel a bit frustrating.

1) You can set individual keybinds for every mount and thus make mount swapping far easier than clicking the box in the bottom right. I have most of my mount keys rigged around WASD for sake of ease, with a few being Shift+[key] if they're similar (R for Griffon, Shift+R for Skyscale, etc). I rarely have issues summoning my mounts anymore.

2) Hero points being character bound is fine the way it is. It gives you something to work towards during a particular expansion, and as you complete the spec you progressively get more and more of it to try out and 'learn' as you go. ...Unless you've stockpiled a ton of hero points spare ahead of the expansion and instantly unlock a spec at launch like a lot of folks do.

3) World Map comp should not be account-wide as Gifts of Exploration, an important crafting material for legendary weapons, is tied to map comp. Each time you complete the world on a character you get 2 of them. If you bind it to the account you'll only ever get enough Gifts for 2 legends on your account, and no more. As someone who just finished world completion on my 6th character I can say that would be a bad idea.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

When it comes to story, the one part in other games that always makes me cringe is this fake seriousness. 

Luckly Gw2 characters act more like actual real life people would. 

Which is for some reason a hot take. 

Some examples I loved but are seen as cringe by many. 

Aurene saying to Braham " Ohh you have hair again."

Or Npcs calling Kralkatorik "Kralk". 

It feels like the characters are more Human. Actual people and not actors trying sooo hard to be cool and edgy. 

 

[Hologram.2810]

All the complaints I've seen about FFXIV's story having too many words just seems like a hard filter of people who don't like reading books

[AliamRationem.5172]

35 minutes ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

All the complaints I've seen about FFXIV's story having too many words just seems like a hard filter of people who don't like reading books

I don't know if it has too many words (I've only played the game up to level 50 or so), but my criticism of the story up until that point is primarily that it seems like a poor excuse for injecting structure into the leveling process.  At that it honestly excels.  Just follow the MSQ and you'll always know where to go and what to do.  There is no aimless feeling there as many players experience leveling in GW2. 

However, as gameplay structure goes, an endless series of pointless fetch quests is not compelling gameplay.  I'd go as far as to say that FFXIV appears to celebrate the fetch quest like no other MMO!  I recall a quest line in the mid 30s where you're seeking someone who has information you need.  So, you end up doing this clown's chores for him because he's too lazy to do them himself, only to have him admit that he isn't the guy you're looking for.  He then sends you to find the right guy, who naturally has his own set of fetch quests for you to do.  Haha!  Joke's on you!  And through 50 levels so far the MSQ never relents.  It is literally just fetch quest after fetch quest after fetch quest.  Go here, meet this guy, go there, get this for him, bring it back, go here, get this, bring it back.  Zzzzzz.

So what about the actual story?  I've heard it gets better, but frankly the story up until level 50 is terrible.  There isn't a single compelling character or interesting thread at this point.  You only even meet one of what I assume are the big bads at level 50 and get some hints that something interesting might happen at a future date.  It's extremely boring so far, so I completely understand why people would criticize the dialogue. 

For the most part, it isn't voiced so you're reading big blocks of text.  And after playing GW2, I really miss the voicework.  I feel it makes story content much more immersive.  But the characters also tend to ramble when there's no reason for them to do so.  I got into the habit of reading the parts with cinematics and where it seemed like important events were occurring and then skipping through all of the pointless fetch quest NPC rambling as it never seemed to add anything of value to the story.

And that's what I mean when I say it seems like a poor excuse to inject structure into the leveling process.  They didn't write a compelling story and make you feel like you're part of important events.  They made you an errand boy so that you would never feel lost while leveling up.  It's completely and utterly awful, but it does let you just follow a straightforward path through the process of leveling.

[Hologram.2810]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I don't know if it has too many words (I've only played the game up to level 50 or so), but my criticism of the story up until that point is primarily that it seems like a poor excuse for injecting structure into the leveling process.  At that it honestly excels.  Just follow the MSQ and you'll always know where to go and what to do.  There is no aimless feeling there as many players experience leveling in GW2. 

However, as gameplay structure goes, an endless series of pointless fetch quests is not compelling gameplay.  I'd go as far as to say that FFXIV appears to celebrate the fetch quest like no other MMO!  I recall a quest line in the mid 30s where you're seeking someone who has information you need.  So, you end up doing this clown's chores for him because he's too lazy to do them himself, only to have him admit that he isn't the guy you're looking for.  He then sends you to find the right guy, who naturally has his own set of fetch quests for you to do.  Haha!  Joke's on you!  And through 50 levels so far the MSQ never relents.  It is literally just fetch quest after fetch quest after fetch quest.  Go here, meet this guy, go there, get this for him, bring it back, go here, get this, bring it back.  Zzzzzz.

So what about the actual story?  I've heard it gets better, but frankly the story up until level 50 is terrible.  There isn't a single compelling character or interesting thread at this point.  You only even meet one of what I assume are the big bads at level 50 and get some hints that something interesting might happen at a future date.  It's extremely boring so far, so I completely understand why people would criticize the dialogue. 

For the most part, it isn't voiced so you're reading big blocks of text.  And after playing GW2, I really miss the voicework.  I feel it makes story content much more immersive.  But the characters also tend to ramble when there's no reason for them to do so.  I got into the habit of reading the parts with cinematics and where it seemed like important events were occurring and then skipping through all of the pointless fetch quest NPC rambling as it never seemed to add anything of value to the story.

And that's what I mean when I say it seems like a poor excuse to inject structure into the leveling process.  They didn't write a compelling story and make you feel like you're part of important events.  They made you an errand boy so that you would never feel lost while leveling up.  It's completely and utterly awful, but it does let you just follow a straightforward path through the process of leveling.

I absolutely disagree. The story, even at the beginning, is extremely literary (in a good way), very nuanced, thoughtful, and does an excellent job at crafting character narratives and making the player character feel immersed in the world that exists outside of its bubble beyond just the player character's adventure. GW2 does the opposite -- the world isn't so lively outside of the core maps and increasingly everything becomes about the stakes placed upon the Commander and his circle of friends while everyone is treated as castaways. FFXIV's characters talk like regular people do with others they're opening to... you get to learn the little details of their life of what's going on in the starter town you've spawned in and piece together detail like that to create a bigger picture of a grand story with a lot of allegorical messaging and intricate symbolism. And I don't mind the lack of voices, after all, most of the voices in GW2 are very amateurish and downright obnoxious to listen to. I prefer no voice acting over voice acting with bad attempt at conveying emotions and ""witty"" sarcastic tone to cover the lack of talent.

I guess if someone thinks that stories outside of extremely grand, spectacle-waving stuff OR pragmatism that's just focused on characters giving dialog expositions orbiting the bare task at hand instead of making characters and the world feel memorable with depth then it would be a turn-off to them. But to me, FFXIV's writing and GW2's writing are leagues away with no advantage flattering the latter.

Edited July 18, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

I absolutely disagree. The story, even at the beginning, is extremely literary (in a good way), very nuanced, thoughtful, and does an excellent job at crafting character narratives and making the player character feel immersed in the world that exists outside of its bubble beyond just the player character's adventure. GW2 does the opposite -- the world isn't so lively outside of the core maps and increasingly everything becomes about the stakes placed upon the Commander and his circle of friends while everyone is treated as castaways. FFXIV's characters talk like regular people do with others they're opening to... you get to learn the little details of their life of what's going on in the starter town you've spawned in and piece together detail like that to create a bigger picture of a grand story with a lot of allegorical messaging and intricate symbolism. And I don't mind the lack of voices, after all, most of the voices in GW2 are very amateurish and downright obnoxious to listen to. I prefer no voice acting over voice acting with bad attempt at conveying emotions and ""witty"" sarcastic tone to cover the lack of talent.

I guess if someone thinks that stories outside of extremely grand, spectacle-waving stuff OR pragmatism that's just focused on characters giving dialog expositions orbiting the bare task at hand instead of making characters and the world feel memorable with depth then it would be a turn-off to them. But to me, FFXIV's writing and GW2's writing are leagues away with no advantage flattering the latter.

I feel like we aren't playing the same games or this is hopeless fanboiism.

[Hologram.2810]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I feel like we aren't playing the same games or this is hopeless fanboiism.

No actual argument just an insult, ok then lol. I played more hours of GW2 and I just started FFXIV. Immediately I noticed that the latter (in both the community, story content, gameplay, mechanics, in-game tutorials, aesthetics) is of significantly higher quality than anything I encountered in all the thousand hours I spent playing GW2.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[AliamRationem.5172]

29 minutes ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

No actual argument just an insult, ok then lol. I played more hours of GW2 and I just started FFXIV. Immediately I noticed that the latter (in both the community, story content, gameplay, mechanics, in-game tutorials, aesthetics) is of significantly higher quality than anything I encountered in all the thousand hours I spent playing GW2.

 

 

 

 

You replied to me, chief.  I think I made my position on FFXIV's story pretty clear.  Did you need more clarification?

You love the aesthetic of FFXIV?  Personally, I think it looks like crap and I don't care for the art style either.  

You love the gameplay, too?  Sorry, but why? 

The movement is clunky without any of the fun and liberating movement skills that GW2 loves to employ (e.g. mounts, gliders, etc.).  There are invisible walls everywhere to prevent you from doing anything akin to a jump puzzle or even simply jumping off of a cliff. 

The combat is straight old school tab-target.  No dodging.  No utilizing movement and positioning outside of scripted telegraphs (e.g. circle strafing doesn't allow you to avoid hits from enemies unless it places a big orange cone on the ground for you to walk out of).  Cooldowns are passive (e.g. reduce damage by 10% vs. cause the next attack to miss).  You also spend the first 30 levels on most classes using the equivalent of an auto-attack chain with a whopping 2.5 second GCD between skill uses.

Then there's the previously mentioned gameplay loop which involves fetch quest after fetch quest after fetch quest.  Go find old man's socks.  Go kill 80,000 boars.  And when you're done with that we'll change the names of the items and monsters you need to find or fight and you'll do it again.  And again. And again.

Like I said, it's completely and utterly awful.

I can't speak to the community.  I did all of the dungeons up to level 50 (I think?) and I don't think anyone said a word through any of them.  I saw other players in the open world here and there, but not many and none of them spoke to me.  And since cooperation doesn't really seem to be a thing due to old school WoW-style tagging and resource competition, players generally didn't seem to want to have others around anyway.

If you want to compare stories, I think GW2's story is not great.  However, comparing similar moments from the early story I find it a lot better than FFXIV.  Take the death of Tybalt vs. the death of random plant fairy lady (sorry, I can't recall her name).  Tybalt quickly endears himself to the player and I found myself genuinely sad when he dies, even though I didn't do more than a few quick adventures with him.  Fairy plant lady, on the other hand, sent me on a handful of meaningless fetch quests and then got killed.  Boohoo?  Why do I care? 

[vares.8457]

7 hours ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

All the complaints I've seen about FFXIV's story having too many words just seems like a hard filter of people who don't like reading books

No but I prefer reading books when I want a good story. Stories in video games are mostly bad and I don’t play games for their story. 

[Freya.9075]

When I tried FFXIV it felt like the world lacked personality. It didn’t feel alive at all. Only a few cutscenes had voice acting and it really threw me off coming from gw2 where the world always feels alive. I can explore and hear some npc talking and just stop to listen to what they are saying. Even follow them around to see how the interaction between the npcs continues. Like the little golem in Metrica province that delivers messages. I have not played other games with these kind of interactions between npcs before, and it’s so many of them. These small things and details means way more to me than a good story in games. If I want a good story, I’ll watch a movie or read a book.

 

[kharmin.7683]

16 hours ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

No actual argument just an insult, ok then lol. I played more hours of GW2 and I just started FFXIV. Immediately I noticed that the latter (in both the community, story content, gameplay, mechanics, in-game tutorials, aesthetics) is of significantly higher quality than anything I encountered in all the thousand hours I spent playing GW2.

 

 

 

 

And that's fine.  Your experience is subjective.  I've tried several times to get into FFXIV and just can't do it.  I find GW2 to be better.  /shrug

[Gibson.4036]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:20 AM, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

All the complaints I've seen about FFXIV's story having too many words just seems like a hard filter of people who don't like reading books

Lit major here. Some of my favorite authors have written massive, sprawling, slow-paced novels. Writers like Dostoevsky and Neal Stephenson.

I didn't get far into FFXIV, so maybe it picks up later, but the NPCs do ramble on.

I don't mind word-count. I do mind word-flab.

[Voyant.1327]

On 7/18/2023 at 6:20 AM, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

All the complaints I've seen about FFXIV's story having too many words just seems like a hard filter of people who don't like reading books

Its a Japanese Soap Opera, that appeals to some people. It won't appeal to a lot.

I love me a good Final Fantasy story, I still agree FFXIV is bloody Stockholm Syndrome as an MMO. I have it as the worst of all Final Fantasy stories I've played. 

I enjoyed aspects but ultimately the story is the main reason why I left. That and the stack system is just awfully boring & not fun to deal with. At least in GW2 you can work around it, in FFXIV it was your only option. 

[Hologram.2810]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:42 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You replied to me, chief.  I think I made my position on FFXIV's story pretty clear.  Did you need more clarification?

You love the aesthetic of FFXIV?  Personally, I think it looks like crap and I don't care for the art style either. 

You love the gameplay, too?  Sorry, but why? 

The movement is clunky without any of the fun and liberating movement skills that GW2 loves to employ (e.g. mounts, gliders, etc.).  There are invisible walls everywhere to prevent you from doing anything akin to a jump puzzle or even simply jumping off of a cliff. 

The combat is straight old school tab-target.  No dodging.  No utilizing movement and positioning outside of scripted telegraphs (e.g. circle strafing doesn't allow you to avoid hits from enemies unless it places a big orange cone on the ground for you to walk out of).  Cooldowns are passive (e.g. reduce damage by 10% vs. cause the next attack to miss).  You also spend the first 30 levels on most classes using the equivalent of an auto-attack chain with a whopping 2.5 second GCD between skill uses.

Then there's the previously mentioned gameplay loop which involves fetch quest after fetch quest after fetch quest.  Go find old man's socks.  Go kill 80,000 boars.  And when you're done with that we'll change the names of the items and monsters you need to find or fight and you'll do it again.  And again. And again.

Like I said, it's completely and utterly awful.

I can't speak to the community.  I did all of the dungeons up to level 50 (I think?) and I don't think anyone said a word through any of them.  I saw other players in the open world here and there, but not many and none of them spoke to me.  And since cooperation doesn't really seem to be a thing due to old school WoW-style tagging and resource competition, players generally didn't seem to want to have others around anyway.

If you want to compare stories, I think GW2's story is not great.  However, comparing similar moments from the early story I find it a lot better than FFXIV.  Take the death of Tybalt vs. the death of random plant fairy lady (sorry, I can't recall her name).  Tybalt quickly endears himself to the player and I found myself genuinely sad when he dies, even though I didn't do more than a few quick adventures with him.  Fairy plant lady, on the other hand, sent me on a handful of meaningless fetch quests and then got killed.  Boohoo?  Why do I care? 

GW2's artstyle is a crappy imitation of the anime style you're slamming but without the charm. Its character models looks plastic, the lighting has a lot of bloom and over-exposure where even turning off the correct setting doesn't really help to offset that muck, and really silly mobile game like animations that give off an uncanny and low budget feeling.

The complaints about the invisible walls and tedious gameplay are even more funny considering.. GW2 is rife with that AND unfixed decades old bugs that the developers themselves don't feel like touching. There's also the abysmal heart quests and the slog of leveling up progress that turns off most people from the game.

At least with FFXIV's combat, you won't get constant butchering of classes through "balancing" attempts because the devs don't know what to make out of the coding nor really care about the core identity of classes. You have a trinity, your class is capable of X, Y,Z things, you use it like that, and the game takes you through the tutorial by even training you how to get used to the combat system. GW2's system, in addition to the constant "balancing" patches, is very unintuitive, cluttered, and overrelies on looking at the wiki too much which is no bueno for new players who need direction that's actually put in by the developers themselves instead of a community-effort to pick up the slack where they're lacking.

Speaking of Tybalt.. he was really the only character I remotely cared about in the series. Even then, I don't remember most of GW2's story since it was just mid after mid with a boring half-hearted world to go in conjunction with it. You're the kind of person who thinks traditional storytelling and melodrama is insincere and prefer the cynical, light-hearted approach of GW2 instead. A lot of GW2 fans pride themselves in liking the game because it's different from the flock whether that's worse or better depending on the player's taste. That's fine, but you can't expect people to like it or really care for it if they don't have the same gripes over the MMORPG genre as you do.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[Hologram.2810]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:49 PM, vares.8457 said:

No but I prefer reading books when I want a good story. Stories in video games are mostly bad and I don’t play games for their story. 

Hard disagree. The difference between FFXIV and GW2 is the same as most differences that separate the development philosophy of Japanese vs Western video game companies. The Japanese treats games as an artistic craft while Westerners (typically Americans) treats games as a mindless toy. You sound like you belong in the latter camp, nuttin' wrong with that of course tho. Although I heard WOW and ESO have good stories, so maybe it really is just GW2 that is mid and expects you to like it because it's not like MMOs. *shrug*

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[vares.8457]

6 minutes ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

Hard disagree. The difference between FFXIV and GW2 is the same as most differences that separate the development philosophy Japanese vs Western video game companies. The Japanese treats games as an artistic craft while Westerners (typically Americans) treats games as a mindless toy. You sound like you belong in the latter camp, nuttin' wrong with that of course tho. Although I heard WOW and ESO have good stories, so maybe it really is just GW2 that is mid and expects you to like it because it's not like MMOs. *shrug*

 

 

No, video games in general don’t have good stories. No matter if they are Asian or western. If I want a good story then I read a book or watch a movie. You don’t play video games because of their story. 

[Hologram.2810]

2 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

No, video games in general don’t have good stories. No matter if they are Asian or western. If I want a good story then I read a book or watch a movie. You don’t play video games because of their story. 

Sorry hun, but stories are apart of video games as much as gameplay, artistic direction, and music are. You sound like you don't really think deeply about what you're doing, which is fine of course, but that's not everyone.

Also... why wouldn't story be important in a MMORPG?

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[vares.8457]

Just now, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

Sorry hun, but stories are apart of video games as much as gameplay, artistic direction, and music is.

 

Of course they are but they are in general not good and they are not the main reason to play a game. 
 

[Hologram.2810]

1 minute ago, vares.8457 said:

Of course they are but they are in general not good and they are not the main reason to play a game. 
 

If your story is supposed to be a roleplaying game and it has a mid story, or there's a heavy story focus and it sucks, then I'm not going to be interested in playing your product.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[vares.8457]

what I’ve seen and heard from FFXIV it really is not for me. It’s looks pretty boring and too Asian with all this nonsense in the game and the huge E RP scene in that game is disturbing. It’s a game for teenager. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by vares.8457

[Hologram.2810]

"too Asian" lol smh

Oh and gw2 is the only mmorpg community i've known that thinks roleplaying in a roleplaying game is weird lol

but u know what, different strokes for different folks tbh.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by BloodyVampyra.3741

[Freya.9075]

17 minutes ago, BloodyVampyra.3741 said:

GW2's artstyle is a crappy imitation of the anime style you're slamming but without the charm.

Ah, yes. There is something really anime about them asuras! But they do indeed have charm