Suggestion, make rich versions of home instance nodes

[jason.1083]

Anet hasn't really expanded in the home instance for some time now, the most recent addition being the EoD black lion contact. 

I'm not 100% sure how the could implement a rich version of the already existing nodes while keeping the ones we got, maybe if we got the same node twice it would upgrade the existing one, or there could be a merchant that we can buy the rich nodes from once we unlocked the basic version in our home instance that sells each node for a large sum of the materials it provides when gathered.

I think it's a relatively easy way to expand on home instances while also resource draining enough to actually be a difficult goal to reach, just like a full home instance is atm.

[Gehenna.3625]

Well, this would be a major upset for the TP economy for materials because this would mean a big difference on the supply side. What are your thoughts on that? 

[jason.1083]

2 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, this would be a major upset for the TP economy for materials because this would mean a big difference on the supply side. What are your thoughts on that? 

Well, as I mentioned, having all these nodes is already something most people don't have the privilege for, rich versions will be available for even less people, the amount wouldn't be that big, plus anyone who wanted those nodes will first have to pay a large amount of the respected materials, so it would take a while to break even.

[Gorani.7205]

Well, at least they could make the Rich Candy Corn node a true rich node (currently you get  5 hits on the node, which is hardly an improvement to the basic one with 3) and finally add a Noxious Pod.
On upgrading existing ones: that might drop prices even further, its a two edged blade. Adding a Jadite node or a Echovald node for Amber could be nice. Uses for Hatched Chilli, Prismaticite and Blade shards would be great too.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Gorani.7205

[Gehenna.3625]

5 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Well, as I mentioned, having all these nodes is already something most people don't have the privilege for, rich versions will be available for even less people, the amount wouldn't be that big, plus anyone who wanted those nodes will first have to pay a large amount of the respected materials, so it would take a while to break even.

Are you aware that you can share your home instance with others? Not everybody needs to have it and the thing is that I would expect this sharing of home instances will increase dramatically if what you suggest comes true.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[jason.1083]

3 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Are you aware that you can share your home instance with others? Not everybody needs to have it and the thing is that I would expect this sharing of home instances will increase dramatically.

Not that many people share their home instance anyway, I know many people with very full home instances that don't even collect it themselves most of the time, rich nodes will basically just be double the materials for some nodes, because obviously plants and saplings don't have rich versions in the game, and half the ore based nodes are worthless anyway. about the living world based nodes, since most of these mats can't be traded anyway, they will probably be lift the same.

So this will probably affect 6 or 7 nodes, and only a couple of them will actually be worth some coin.

Edited July 16, 2023 by jason.1083

[ShadowCatz.8437]

14 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Not that many people share their home instance anyway, I know many people with very full home instances that don't even collect it themselves most of the time, rich nodes will basically just be double the materials for some nodes, because obviously plants and saplings don't have rich versions in the game, and half the ore based nodes are worthless anyway. about the living world based nodes, since most of these mats can't be traded anyway, they will probably be lift the same.

So this will probably affect 6 or 7 nodes, and only a couple of them will actually be worth some coin.

You already have Glyphs that add extra each time you farm your nodes, so RIch nodes in Home Instances would make mats even less worth to put up on trade post to sell.

Be careful what you suggest so we don't suddenly have extreme amount of mats that we need to collect for crafting each Legendary item or anything else that we can craft as Arena Net might change the amount you would need if they would make it possible to have Rich nodes.

We also have Guild Halls which can have plenty of mats, if you are a member of more then one Guild that have upgraded GH with synth nodes. You also have WvW where you have synth nodes, so all in all I don't think we should have Rich nodes (with exception for those @Gorani.7205 mentioned).

[Sugar Min.5834]

I would rather they give us more new nodes for example, nodes for Four Winds festival tokens and Lunar New Year red packets or perhaps a new gem store item to allow sharing of deliveries from the Black Lion Contracts board with home visitors. But I seriously doubt that any QoL upgrades is going to happen with this team.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, jason.1083 said:

Not that many people share their home instance anyway, I know many people with very full home instances that don't even collect it themselves most of the time, rich nodes will basically just be double the materials for some nodes, because obviously plants and saplings don't have rich versions in the game, and half the ore based nodes are worthless anyway. about the living world based nodes, since most of these mats can't be traded anyway, they will probably be lift the same.

I think that's a lot of assumptions that you're making. I mean, how do you know that not a lot of people share their home instances? Are you privy to all guild chats? I see a lot of people say things like "this doesn't happen a lot" based on the public chats when they play. That's not really representative. Now, I also have the impression that home instance share isn't extremely popular atm. but it's just an impression, but my feeling is that the home instance sharing will increase dramatically with these changes. 

The reason that it's not rampant in public chat now, aside from most offers to be between friends and/or guildies is that it's not really a big deal, the way it is. But having people get rich nodes will make it a much bigger deal and that's why I expect home instance sharing will increase a lot.

And, you know, sure it's better for some materials than others but at the same time there are a number of materials where it's really good, too good. So to dismissing those because there are many that it wouldn't affect as much doesn't make a lot of sense. In fact that's where you can already see the weakness of this proposal because people will go for the valuable ones first. I mean it will be profitable to have a handful of them in your own home instance without needing it to be remotely full. I mean I could imagine things like orichalcum, mithril, iron, elder wood and ancient wood could be just fine.

And the LW nodes are much more valuable than you think. Ascended trinkets can be bought with them and they can also be sacrificed for unbound/volatile magic. So in my view you underestimate the value of what you're proposing.

Of course you don't have to agree with me but that's where I stand on this.

And for the love of whatever is sacred to you...pls don't ask for a rich hatched chili node.

[jason.1083]

3 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think that's a lot of assumptions that you're making. I mean, how do you know that not a lot of people share their home instances? Are you privy to all guild chats? I see a lot of people say things like "this doesn't happen a lot" based on the public chats when they play. That's not really representative. Now, I also have the impression that home instance share isn't extremely popular atm. but it's just an impression, but my feeling is that the home instance sharing will increase dramatically with these changes. 

The reason that it's not rampant in public chat now, aside from most offers to be between friends and/or guildies is that it's not really a big deal, the way it is. But having people get rich nodes will make it a much bigger deal and that's why I expect home instance sharing will increase a lot.

And, you know, sure it's better for some materials than others but at the same time there are a number of materials where it's really good, too good. So to dismissing those because there are many that it wouldn't affect as much doesn't make a lot of sense. In fact that's where you can already see the weakness of this proposal because people will go for the valuable ones first. I mean it will be profitable to have a handful of them in your own home instance without needing it to be remotely full. I mean I could imagine things like orichalcum, mithril, iron, elder wood and ancient wood could be just fine.

And the LW nodes are much more valuable than you think. Ascended trinkets can be bought with them and they can also be sacrificed for unbound/volatile magic. So in my view you underestimate the value of what you're proposing.

Of course you don't have to agree with me but that's where I stand on this.

And for the love of whatever is sacred to you...pls don't ask for a rich hatched chili node.

If you wanted to farm specific nodes you can just check where you can find all the rich ones and go target these, so even the most expensive ones can be gathered in mass outside of home instances, and since non rich variants are instant based you can gather hundreds of these materials daily, including orichalcum ore, elder wood and ancient wood. I tested elder wood since it's more common and honestly you can chop down >2000 logs daily just from a handful of maps that you just wait until a different instance takes hold and jump into that.

And again since that would only affect a few nodes in the game, it would still not be that worth it, for example you can go and collect hundreds of orichalcum out there for free, or you can guarantee an easy rich orichalcum node in your home instance for 10 ore daily, and I imagine that would cost you more than a griffon. So most people won't be that interested. Which means relatively few people will bother with them, and those few people won't sit around all day porting people in their home instance.

Regarding the LW nodes, I didn't say we should get rich versions of them, but even if we did, I can prove to you that you can get 120-130 of any LWS4 material of your choosing in roughly 1 hour's work, and any LWS3 material can again be gathered so much quicker in their respective maps, unless the only thing you do in the game is collect your home instance (or someone elses home instance) you'll barely see a difference.  

It's not that big of a change, Trading Post will be fine. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

4 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

most people won't be that interested

Then why would the Devs bother using resources to create this suggestion?  Perhaps, the Devs should use their resources to implement one of the suggestions that most people will be that interested in.  🤷‍♂️

Edited July 16, 2023 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[jason.1083]

13 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Then why would the Devs bother using resources to create this suggestion?  Perhaps, the Devs should use their resources to implement one of the suggestions that most people will be that interested in.  🤷‍♂️

The point was that they already exist, I'm not saying we should get something new, just something that already exists in the game in our home instances, and also the devs have put a lot of resources on things than very few people care about, home cats, kites, fractal reliquary, karmic converter, festival gobblers outside of the Halloween one. Rich nodes are much easier to just throw into a home instance and call it a day.

Edited July 16, 2023 by jason.1083

[Gehenna.3625]

9 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

If you wanted to farm specific nodes you can just check where you can find all the rich ones and go target these, so even the most expensive ones can be gathered in mass outside of home instances, and since non rich variants are instant based you can gather hundreds of these materials daily, including orichalcum ore, elder wood and ancient wood. I tested elder wood since it's more common and honestly you can chop down >2000 logs daily just from a handful of maps that you just wait until a different instance takes hold and jump into that.

I think you underestimate the convenience factor and time factor. Home instances are just easier because they are close together. When you do it on a daily basis, it just takes a couple of minutes and then you can go on and do different things while your materials accumulate at a much faster pace.

9 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

And again since that would only affect a few nodes in the game, it would still not be that worth it, for example you can go and collect hundreds of orichalcum out there for free, or you can guarantee an easy rich orichalcum node in your home instance for 10 ore daily, and I imagine that would cost you more than a griffon. So most people won't be that interested. Which means relatively few people will bother with them, and those few people won't sit around all day porting people in their home instance.

Most people don't do those calculations. They just like to have a full home instance and the convenience and when you get access to someone else's home instance it's free anyway. So yes, people will ask in an increasing amount for access to more full home instances is my expectation.

9 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

Regarding the LW nodes, I didn't say we should get rich versions of them, but even if we did, I can prove to you that you can get 120-130 of any LWS4 material of your choosing in roughly 1 hour's work, and any LWS3 material can again be gathered so much quicker in their respective maps, unless the only thing you do in the game is collect your home instance (or someone elses home instance) you'll barely see a difference.  

You're right, I misread that part of your post.

9 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

It's not that big of a change, Trading Post will be fine. 

And this is where I say you're wrong. You underestimate how these numbers add up, not on an individual basis but on the overall player base.

 

But that aside. I've got a pretty full home instance myself, just missing 3-4 nodes (that are not so important to me). If they were to do this change, I'd be done with the most important ones in just a few minutes after release. And yes, I do share my home instance with guildies. So how would this add to my experience? I just like to have a home instance that I can share with guildies. I'm not so concerned with the gold cost itself. I just don't see what this would do except add more materials in the market for the sake of it.

And since not that many people have invested in their home instance, as you seem to indicate, then why would this be a good gold sink?

[soul.9651]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, this would be a major upset for the TP economy for materials because this would mean a big difference on the supply side. What are your thoughts on that? 

As if they are worth anything currently..  how long it takes so that at least one node pays off, years and even more??.. there are plenty other reasons why TP economy sucks already.

I would rather point fingers to OW metas or log in rewards multibox abusers why mat prices are already low

Edited July 16, 2023 by soul.9651

[jason.1083]

15 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think you underestimate the convenience factor and time factor. Home instances are just easier because they are close together. When you do it on a daily basis, it just takes a couple of minutes and then you can go on and do different things while your materials accumulate at a much faster pace.

Yes the convenience is important for many people, but the amount of these mats you get just by playing the game is larger anyway, salvaging gear, collecting random nodes in the middle of doing something else, the add up much more an many people don't realize it, home instance is a nice farm, but it's by far not very impactful, and tripling the amount of mats you get for a handful of nodes there isn't a major change, even if more people start doing it.

15 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Most people don't do those calculations. They just like to have a full home instance and the convenience and when you get access to someone else's home instance it's free anyway. So yes, people will ask in an increasing amount for access to more full home instances is my expectation.

Yeah but most people who don't do those calculations have gold to spare, and these people are not that many to begin with. If you want Anet can balance that by just making certain more profitable nodes really expensive, if 250 gold is not enough, we can go up, way up we can even make it cost more than a handful of legendary weapons combined. And I don't think people will really go out of their way to ask someone for their home instance just for 7 orichalcum ore more than before, if they didn't already plan to do that before.

15 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

And since not that many people have invested in their home instance, as you seem to indicate, then why would this be a good gold sink?

I'm not necessarily talking about a gold sink, just something to add to the home instance, and maybe a way to help people who don't have time to play to still make some gold.

Edited July 16, 2023 by jason.1083

[kharmin.7683]

Wouldn't this run counter to some of the game's design for players to actually explore the maps rather than camp in their home instances?  Not sure Anet would be interested in this suggestion.

[Farohna.6247]

I love the idea of rich nodes!  But...it probably wouldn't be great for the economy, there are enough nodes out in the world where the majority of gameplay occurs, and I would prefer they add more nodes instead.  Where's my noxious pod, my seaweed farm, and my EoD nodes?

[Gehenna.3625]

6 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

Yes the convenience is important for many people, but the amount of these mats you get just by playing the game is larger anyway, salvaging gear, collecting random nodes in the middle of doing something else, the add up much more an many people don't realize it, home instance is a nice farm, but it's by far not very impactful, and tripling the amount of mats you get for a handful of nodes there isn't a major change, even if more people start doing it.

I think you underestimate what this would mean but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Neither of us will convince the other and that's cool. 

6 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

Yeah but most people who don't do those calculations have gold to spare, and these people are not that many to begin with. If you want Anet can balance that by just making certain more profitable nodes really expensive, if 250 gold is not enough, we can go up, way up we can even make it cost more than a handful of legendary weapons combined. And I don't think people will really go out of their way to ask someone for their home instance just for 7 orichalcum ore more than before, if they didn't already plan to do that before.

Well you're essentially asking Anet to implement something for people who do have gold to spare, because who else puts their home instance full of nodes? It's pretty much a losing proposition because it takes something like years before you earn back the cost of them. 

6 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

I'm not necessarily talking about a gold sink, just something to add to the home instance, and maybe a way to help people who don't have time to play to still make some gold.

Which also makes your point invalid about people who don't have time to play a lot. Why would they spend gold on something that doesn't net them anything for years?

Honestly, I'm just not sure where you're going with this. Even with the economics left out of it, by your own words, it wouldn't benefit more than a handful of people really. So why would Anet go for this?

[jason.1083]

49 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think you underestimate what this would mean but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Neither of us will convince the other and that's cool. 

Well you're essentially asking Anet to implement something for people who do have gold to spare, because who else puts their home instance full of nodes? It's pretty much a losing proposition because it takes something like years before you earn back the cost of them. 

Which also makes your point invalid about people who don't have time to play a lot. Why would they spend gold on something that doesn't net them anything for years?

Honestly, I'm just not sure where you're going with this. Even with the economics left out of it, by your own words, it wouldn't benefit more than a handful of people really. So why would Anet go for this?

You don't have to agree, from my  perspective it wouldn't be that much of an impact on the TP and it's just an optional upgrade for people to get some extra gold without needing to spend much more time than they already do.

It's not like it's gonna happen anyway.

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well, this would be a major upset for the TP economy for materials because this would mean a big difference on the supply side. What are your thoughts on that? 

If it costs large amounts of the same material it provides it might not adversely affect the current value. Could increase it.

[jason.1083]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If it costs large amounts of the same material it provides it might not adversely affect the current value. Could increase it.

Well, that was kind of my point with that idea, it would bump the prices to begin with and hopefully they will  slowly settle at around the same price, and since the majority of those materials are very cheap and common anyway, it should be an easy change. Orichalcum being the exception, which is really high priced atm, and I think it could use a bit of shaving off.

[Parasite.5389]

It's honestly not a terrible idea.
Assuming you'd need to buy each of the affected nodes twice (like how the Candy corn node exists today), it's only going to affect 7 out of 57 nodes.
none of those nodes are particularly cheap, with the Mirthril node being around 32G on the TP and the Iron node being close to 100G, with the only other options of getting them being through the black lion chests either as a random drop, or with 100 Statuettes; or spending an extra 800gems for the basic node pack.

[Endaris.1452]

11 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

log in rewards multibox abusers why mat prices are already low

I hope you do realize there are multibox abusers that farm their main's home instance.

Overall I don't see this happening. Anet has been creating desperate material sink collections since IBS, I very strongly doubt they want more readily available material farm in the game than already exists.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Endaris.1452

[soul.9651]

5 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

I hope you do realize there are multibox abusers that farm their main's home instance.

 

Well if they deal with them or change log in rewards then problem solved

[jason.1083]

6 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

I hope you do realize there are multibox abusers that farm their main's home instance.

Overall I don't see this happening. Anet has been creating desperate material sink collections since IBS, I very strongly doubt they want more readily available material farm in the game than already exists.

Having multiple alt accounts just feels wrong for me, I've known a few people with >40 alts that used them for that exact purpose. 

Honestly though as someone who's primary source of income is selling these T5 +T6 materials I can tell you that the vast majority of them actually comes from salvaging gear and not home instances or loot bags. The dozens of thousands of mithril ingots and elder planks is mostly the result of unidentified gear, as well as a respectable amount of orichalcum and ancient wood. 

Which is how I come to the conclusion that giving people an easy +7 ore of each type in exchange for a few months worth of gathering each of these nodes is not gonna be the end of the world. Most of the impact will be made from people rushing these nodes and buying these mats from the TP. 

About multibox abusers that farm their main's home instance, well, they are already abusing the system, so not much will change, yes they'll have more impact than the rest of the people, but they already do that as well. 

If you're like one of some people I know with 40+ alt accounts you'll be getting 800+ mystic coins monthly just from logging in which is about 1000 gold. So the orichalcum might not even interest you at that point...

Material sinks on the other hand, they don't cover every material in the game, and they won't last forever, the materials will always circulate, and in my humble opinion, the trading post has taken worst hits than those mat sinks or even some extra orichalcum. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by jason.1083