[deleted]

[Bazsi.2734]

Lmao an entire thread about berserker hitting hard... that's what the spec is supposed to do. Like... their very nieche. Their selling point. The thing that defines them. Complaining about the condi variant, I could understand. Sustained condi pressure with good sustain should be totally offbrand for berserker, but this... 
If power berserker wouldn't have hard hitting bursts, what would it do? What would be the point in having the spec?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Why did I just find this? 

I am laughing my butt of here. 

The evil Warrior threw bolas at me 😭😭😭

Anet! DELETE THIS CLASS¡!!!!!!!!!! I BEG YOU!!!! 

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

 

And now we wait for the nerfs to happen. Only for my giga Chad friends to still dunk on him. 

[Vinny.7260]

21 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Why did I just find this? 

I am laughing my butt of here. 

The evil Warrior threw bolas at me 😭😭😭

Anet! DELETE THIS CLASS¡!!!!!!!!!! I BEG YOU!!!! 

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

 

And now we wait for the nerfs to happen. Only for my giga Chad friends to still dunk on him. 

Reading the fact Bolas were actually the counterplay to someone's playstyle has me rolling even after reading it yesterday. Absolutely CRACKED gameplay!

 

Whoever this legendary Zerker is, I need to speak with them. Just want to learn how to become this overpowered unstoppable workhorse of a Gunflame hero.

[Stalima.5490]

23 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Stalima.5490 you seem to rever to the old Berserker...... it does not hit while activate anymore...... besides this i also never saw anyone hit a 17k Decapitate outside of PvE. Juuuust weird xd

yeah i forgot they removed the berserk active damage but you can still just instant axe skill anyway so it doesn't really matter.

[Bunbury.8472]

BOLA GOD

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

57 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

yeah i forgot they removed the berserk active damage but you can still just instant axe skill anyway so it doesn't really matter.

Quote

 

what do you mean show footage, it's common knowlege that decapitate can crit for 17k and the burst on activating berserk can crit for 4k

 

 

I feel like you should be aware of what skills are actually hitting you before you start advocating for them to hit you less hard.

That's just me though.

You're also wrong about the axe instantly activating.  You have almost 4/10ths of a second + seeing the warrior turn red to dodge Decap at the quickest, up to 7.5/10s of a second if the warrior doesn't have quickness. Both of these are well within reaction time. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Bunbury.8472]

2023 when NA has only 100 players in plat we have hit such a population and skill drought that we have a 'he used bolas on me there was nothing I can do' thread.

a homie, a gamer is out there on berserker dedicating one of his utility slots to bolas on a full glass cannon warrior build and they are producing nerf threads because they set up gunflame with signet of might and bolas.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Bunbury.8472

[Stalima.5490]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I feel like you should be aware of what skills are actually hitting you before you start advocating for them to hit you less hard.

That's just me though.

You're also wrong about the axe instantly activating.  You have almost 4/10ths of a second + seeing the warrior turn red to dodge Decap at the quickest, up to 7.5/10s of a second if the warrior doesn't have quickness. Both of these are well within reaction time. 

It's not about about reacting it's about the fact that there is even the possibility for this to occur... all it takes is the enemy team having one stunlock build and something like this is going to be idiotically unfair as one who has abused stunlocking I know how stupid it is so if you add a warrior that is now instantly killing spam stunned enemies, what can they do about it?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

It's not about about reacting it's about the fact that there is even the possibility for this to occur... all it takes is the enemy team having one stunlock build and something like this is going to be idiotically unfair as one who has abused stunlocking I know how stupid it is so if you add a warrior that is now instantly killing spam stunned enemies, what can they do about it?

You all keep referring to stunned status as an unavoidable inevitability that players didn't put themselves in through mismanagement of stab, stunbreaks or distance.

Once you're in a position where you cannot stunbreak, you've already lost the skirmish if nobody saves you.  It just takes longer for you to actually die now because the cc hits you for 10 hp.

Do you want to jump into a skirmish, get stunned for 10 damage, stunbreak, get stunned again in the fray for 10 damage, stunbreak, get stunned again, then have an additional means to escape despite the fact you ate 2-3 skills you shouldn't have, should have kited away but didnt, and your teammate (if applicable) wont peel you out of that situation?

Ill gladly take 4-5k for you eating those stuns in exchange for stunlock forgiveness, but it won't change the situation.  You'll die just as fast. The problem is the mismanagement of the fight, and you cant balance that away. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stalima.5490]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

You all keep referring to stunned status as an unavoidable inevitability that players didn't put themselves in through mismanagement of stab, stunbreaks or distance.

Once you're in a position where you cannot stunbreak, you've already lost the skirmish if nobody saves you.  It just takes longer for you to actually die now because the cc hits you for 10 hp.

Do you want to jump into a skirmish, get stunned for 10 damage, stunbreak, get stunned again in the fray for 10 damage, stunbreak, get stunned again, then have an additional means to escape despite the fact you ate 2-3 skills you shouldn't have, should have kited away but didnt, and your teammate (if applicable) wont peel you out of that situation?

 

ok so assuming you dodge or break 4 back to back crowd controls from the controller, how do you avoid the warrior bull charging you and 2 buttoning?

Edited July 19, 2023 by Stalima.5490

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Just now, Stalima.5490 said:

ok so assuming you dodge or break 4 back to back crowd controls from the controller, how do you avoid the warrior bull charging you and 2 buttoning?

Use a block. Take smoke field on disable.  Use one of those stunbreaks you saved.  Get up on some higher terrain.

Look. We're gonna go back and forth forever and I'm not a pvp trainer. Let's just accept we won't see eye to eye on this. I'm not going to convince you and warrior isn't obliterating the meta so I don't have to.  Everyone else figured it out. 

Love you ❤️

[Stalima.5490]

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Use a block. Take smoke field on disable.  Use one of those stunbreaks you saved.  Get up on some higher terrain.

Look. We're gonna go back and forth forever and I'm not a pvp trainer. Let's just accept we won't see eye to eye on this. I'm not going to convince you and warrior isn't obliterating the meta so I don't have to.  Everyone else figured it out. 

Love you ❤️

The problem with this game is the fact that the damage is now so high that the entire game has just become about which team can go invulnerable for longer.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

The problem with this game is the fact that the damage is now so high that the entire game has just become about which team can go invulnerable for longer.

*gradually  fading  out*

byeeee

It is what it issss~

[Eddie.9143]

revert everything to core ranger type balance

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 7/17/2023 at 5:20 PM, chromodynamix.2495 said:

12K Arc divider that has no LOS so I could be hit by it and not have it be telegraphed

UHM THIS GS WARRIOR JUST LET OUT A PRIMAL SCREAM OF RAGE, POWERED UP WITH A SUPER SAYIAN ANIMATION AND NOW HAS A MENACING RED AURA ALL AROUND THEM...

GEEZ, I REALLY WONDER WHAT HE MIGHT BE UP TO...

[shion.2084]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:27 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*gradually  fading  out*

byeeee

It is what it issss~

I found a fun clip of seeing a gun flame at work, I was watching Mukluk stream a match where I was his opponent (Ash Klaatu).  

Now I'm the engi that keeps setting the ranger up and doing the CC on him... but snake gtx (milk dud) is on my team.  So basically Its pretty easy to feed milk kills when I do the up front baiting of defensives.  And I don't even need to get rid of a lot of his actual defensives, just his ability to run and heal... cause well gun flame can shoot right through and no way the rangers going to see those attacks with me in his face.

(as a side note, I do feel I went kind of under appreciated... if you look at his kill damage, there's a lot of shredder and electro whirl in there).  Also for those with anti-nades fetishes... note that those aren't really the skills that take him down.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1873837742?t=02h21m53s

Edited July 20, 2023 by shion.2084

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

40 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I found a fun clip of seeing a gun flame at work, I was watching Mukluk stream a match where I was his opponent (Ash Klaatu).  

Now I'm the engi that keeps setting the ranger up and doing the CC on him... but snake gtx (milk dud) is on my team.  So basically Its pretty easy to feed milk kills when I do the up front baiting of defensives.  And I don't even need to get rid of a lot of his actual defensives, just his ability to run and heal... cause well gun flame can shoot right through and no way the rangers going to see those attacks with me in his face.

This is effective teamwork and there are thousands more of these combinations, but people are too preoccupied with meta and wintrading to meme.

This is the energy I wanna see across the board. The game is too freely synergetic to be stacking catas or whatever for pointless trinkets. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[shion.2084]

20 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This is effective teamwork and there are thousands more of these combinations, but people are too preoccupied with meta and wintrading to meme.

This is the energy I wanna see across the board. The game is too freely synergetic to be stacking catas or whatever for pointless trinkets. 

The funny part is the streamer is like "oh no a cata" at the beginning of the match 🙂

In a real match I would have been playing a lot tighter.  There are much better classes for setting folks up for gun flames (classes who are vastly more frontline tanky with more CC and immob).  To do my CC I need to be close mele, cause I gotta rocket charge in lighting fields or place down a shredder toolbelt pulser, or get my blast gyro on them.   I typically want to play second line with occasional dashes in, in a competitive match.

Edited July 20, 2023 by shion.2084

[shion.2084]

But one thing I would like to point out here... everyone talks about how easy it is to notice the zerker and his huge animations and ridiculous windows for dodging its attacks.  Lots of mocking.  But see the effect from the ranger's perspective in actual play.  Do folks watching notice the big obvious zerker attack that the ranger should just obviously dodge?  What's he supposed to be easily noticing or reacting to there?   It's a lot tougher than all the mockers make it out to be.  And yeah it's not going to make new players fans of the mode at all.   Unblockable 13k shots just really shouldn't be a thing.

I sort of wanted to give an example of how it feels in real match to have a good one of those playing against you.   Also this ranger is much tougher... those attacks against me are doing 13k damage.  This ranger is actually a bit tanky.  Many classes don't have that option to be viable.
    

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

47 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I sort of wanted to give an example of how it feels in real match to have a good one of those playing against you.  
    

Note your qualifier.

Quote

But one thing I would like to point out here... everyone talks about how easy it is to notice the zerker and his huge animations and ridiculous windows for dodging its attacks.  Lots of mocking.  But see the effect from the ranger's perspective in actual play.  Do folks watching notice the big obvious zerker attack that the ranger should just obviously dodge?  What's he supposed to be easily noticing or reacting to there?   It's a lot tougher than all the mockers make it out to be.  

Note that it required actively distracting the player in question, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make this argument. I can name a few builds that can hit for high damage on a distracted player. 

Also using the minimap and knowing the war is gunflame would have allowed adaptation to this. I maintain that being distracted when you have tools to keep an eye on what can hit you hard, then getting hit by the thing that hits you hard isn't an excuse to nerf the thing that hit you hard.

Humor me though. What kind of damage spread would you prefer in lieu of this, for gunflame and rifle in general.  If you don't want a high damage unblockable that works as long as you're not looking at it, what do you think would be ideal but still effective, and what should be done to get there?

Quote

And yeah it's not going to make new players fans of the mode at all.  

The new players are too busy going against plat players that don't afford them the opprtunity to dodge. The way you frame this isn't a metric by which you should balance gunflame; new players will get hit by things they don't understand and be upset regardless. Gunflame is at the top of the list of things you can adapt to though. 

Quote

  Also this ranger is much tougher... those attacks against me are doing 13k damage.  This ranger is actually a bit tanky.  Many classes don't have that option to be viable.

Glass builds take glass damage, note 13k hits is anecdotal. If you must run a glass build to do anything and don't have emergency mitigation to avoid things like this AND you need to fight directly on the point, then I can see where that might be a problem.  I think the profession pool that is chained to that is vanishingly small though. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[shion.2084]

"Note your qualifier."

Ok but a "bad" gun flame playing against other similar skilled opponents wrecks them even worse.  Because they are even less likely to dodge or realise they need to.   So I'd actually say it becomes more effective as skill sets lower.  If you think about it any super high damage one shot is going to do much better against worse players even in the hands of a bad player.

"Humor me though. What kind of damage spread would you prefer in lieu of this, for gunflame and rifle in general.  If you don't want a high damage unblockable that works as long as you're not looking at it, what do you think would be ideal but still effective, and what should be done to get there?"

Ok I've actually posted before some thoughts.  So in lower tier games max damage should get capped from a single attack.  Also deaths should result in a period of buff after spawn so that repeated deaths in a short period of time end up with a player getting propped up a bit so they can last a bit longer and maybe even learn something before quitting.  CC in these matches should be broken by free stability for 2 seconds after the CC is done to avoid "juggling".  Essentially increase player agency in lower tier matches to avoid frustration.

Now in all matches stealth and port and invuln, those should come with a debuff.  So that when you enter them fine, but for a short while after you do/leave them, you do less damage (condi and physical).   That would make these skills more about tactics and position, but not about being able to hit like a 1 shot truck while being unhittable.  It would solve things like the stupid engi nade barrage out of stealth attack everyone disliked, but still allow area stealth to be in play at a reasonable duration.

Any attack that does hit for 13k, should never be unblockable, unless its an elite on a once in a 2 min timer.   So it's fine to make someone use their blocks up by harassing and then shoot them.. but for exactly the reason that things can be shot out of stealth, and that you might know your being focused by an opposing team and want to block... but not note that one of the 4 of them is unblockable... they should not also be unblockable if they can essentially 1 shot you.

Clear visual indicator common for all attacks of a certain characteristic should be used.   So any attack unblockable should have a certain common icon or effect that is readily noticeable.   Maybe if it ruins immersion, you allow this as a toggle like you do with standard character models.   Similarly anyone who is invuln should have a common indicator, and anthgint that reflects.

We should not be testing the "skill" of remember a certain classes specific animations, but rather what's being done by an opponent and affecting them should be made apparent.  The skill should be in adapting to these things.

Edited July 20, 2023 by shion.2084

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

30 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

"Note your qualifier."

Ok but a "bad" gun flame playing against other similar skilled opponents wrecks them even worse.  Because they are even less likely to dodge or realise they need to.   So I'd actually say it becomes more effective as skill sets lower.  If you think about it any super high damage one shot is going to do much better against worse players even in the hands of a bad player.

"Humor me though. What kind of damage spread would you prefer in lieu of this, for gunflame and rifle in general.  If you don't want a high damage unblockable that works as long as you're not looking at it, what do you think would be ideal but still effective, and what should be done to get there?"

Ok I've actually posted before some thoughts.  So in lower tier games max damage should get capped from a single attack.  Also deaths should result in a period of buff after spawn so that repeated deaths in a short period of time end up with a player getting propped up a bit so they can last a bit longer and maybe even learn something before quitting.  CC in these matches should be broken by free stability for 2 seconds after the CC is done to avoid "juggling".  Essentially increase player agency in lower tier matches to avoid frustration.

Now in all matches stealth and port and invuln, those should come with a debuff.  So that when you enter them fine, but for a short while after you do/leave them, you do less damage (condi and physical).   That would make these skills more about tactics and position, but not about being able to hit like a 1 shot truck while being unhittable.  It would solve things like the stupid engi nade barrage out of stealth attack everyone disliked, but still allow area stealth to be in play at a reasonable duration.

Any attack that does hit for 13k, should never be unblockable, unless its an elite on a once in a 2 min timer.   So it's fine to make someone use their blocks up by harassing and then shoot them.. but for exactly the reason that things can be shot out of stealth, and that you might know your being focused by an opposing team and want to block... but not note that one of the 4 of them is unblockable... they should not also be unblockable if they can essentially 1 shot you.

fair enough, as long as reworks to class and profession skills that lose playability are adjusted as well.

As long as this balance philosophy is applied across the board and warrior is not exclusively handed the duty of being forgiving enough to teach new players, your direction is reasonable.

Mind you, I don't personally agree with it and think that being allowed to walk out of frame trap setups that are difficult to land will make the game worse overall, but I will respect your opinion at least as far as that is concerned.

getting stunlocked is annoying, but so is chasing people across the map while they range you with damage, and I see getting stunlocked by getting cornered by a melee class to be the counterweight to that chasing bit. 

Getting gunflamed is annoying, but so is projectile hate and having to announce your attack from outside of the point. If youre going to make one portion less effective in the name of counterplay, you should adjust the other portion in the name of counterplay as well. 

Quote

  So in lower tier games max damage should get capped from a single attack.

Nah. Across the board or nothing. we have rating issues right now, and I don't want this issue divided fractally, with more and more opportunities to claim something hits too hard. Make it hit not as hard across the board, then adjust the skills that relied on that damage to be effective right after, if you feel so inclined to do that.

As mentioned before, I think this would make the game worse. Bunker meta lost us players. but if you are going to do such things, at least you should do them properly. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

fair enough, as long as reworks to class and profession skills that lose playability are adjusted as well.

As long as this balance philosophy is applied across the board and warrior is not exclusively handed the duty of being forgiving enough to teach new players, your direction is reasonable.

Mind you, I don't personally agree with it and think that being allowed to walk out of frame trap setups that are difficult to land will make the game worse overall, but I will respect your opinion at least as far as that is concerned.

getting stunlocked is annoying, but so is chasing people across the map while they range you with damage, and I see getting stunlocked by getting cornered by a melee class to be the counterweight to that chasing bit. 

Getting gunflamed is annoying, but so is projectile hate and having to announce your attack from outside of the point. If youre going to make one portion less effective in the name of counterplay, you should adjust the other portion in the name of counterplay as well. 

Absolutely.... if you make blocks actually block... then you need to give everyone less blocks.  What's happened is we've handed out so many get out of jail free cards (invuln, port, infinite block) that we had to give classes escalating tools to beat those things (unblockable 1 shot kills).   So if you take away unblockable 1 shots... you've absolutely got to scale back the defensive spam.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Absolutely.... if you make blocks actually block... then you need to give everyone less blocks.  What's happened is we've handed out so many get out of jail free cards (invuln, port, infinite block) that we had to give classes escalating tools to beat those things (unblockable 1 shot kills).   So if you take away unblockable 1 shots... you've absolutely got to scale back the defensive spam.

As long as we're on the same page regarding that. Also edited my post, see above.

I've said this before, but I don't mind playing fair (not that I find gunflame to be unfairly scaled, but digression). Very often though, "this is unfair, it should be adjusted thusly" is used as a cover for tailor making nerfs that affect a specific profession a player doesnt like interacting with, with mechanics that are objectively reasonable. Very often that profession is warrior, as well. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[shion.2084]

10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

As long as we're on the same page regarding that. Also edited my post, see above.

I've said this before, but I don't mind playing fair (not that I find gunflame to be unfairly scaled, but digression). Very often though, "this is unfair, it should be adjusted thusly" is used as a cover for tailor making nerfs that affect a specific profession a player doesnt like interacting with, with mechanics that are objectively reasonable. Very often that profession is warrior, as well. 

Note that I'm also OK with making block be "ammo" based as well so that team focusing can happen.  Essentially blocks would be like stability in that they can get used up, and you get so many charges of it for the period of time your block is up.   This would allow teams to still be effective and a single block not to simply cancel out a whole teams coordinated effort.