Support Vindicator nerfs are insane imo

[Knighthonor.4061]

ok toning it down would be reasonable. But this was overreaction. The Vindicator side of support is not very good or welcoming now. There should be some compensation somewhere from all of this.

[otto.5684]

Just asking, where are these changes posted?

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

9 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

 

ok toning it down would be reasonable. But this was overreaction. The Vindicator side of support is not very good or welcoming now. There should be some compensation somewhere from all of this.

 

THIS IS A WVW POINT OF VIEW…

We got some stab on Ventari, which while nice, can be a gimmick to apply in a hectic fight due to the empower mechanic. If you only spam the elite, then yeah, easy stab. If you use any other skill first by necessity or by accident then have fun spending 70 energy to get the stab out. But that’s a whole other issue.

about Vindicator it’s self, it was definitely an over reaction. I hadn’t been too heals or top cleanse even before the last round of nerfs. Hell, our adept minor to heal on dodge in salvation is almost as much as the GM heal on dodge, which is laughable. Out of the last nerfs I would have kept the GM healing the same, but only rescale the barrier. And about Treesong. To me 5 clears was too much, but that just slashed the other source of burst healing. Either compensate their by increasing the heal per remove or just revert the 25e cost and 5s cd back to the old 20e at 3s cd but with the new 3 condis removed. Lastly, the urn. I actually don’t know what’s going on with that. It was strong in the right situations, so I partially agree, but I also never saw the casual heal vindi ever pop it, so idk where the metric of it over performing is coming from. I felt like the risk to reward was basically there. Was just a weird surprise that it was an “issue”

only thing going for Vindi is that it’s a pretty durable healer due to evade uptime. That’s the only reason I can think of for the nerfs after like 6 other rounds of nerfs. I’m sure there’ll be more to come with battle dance and the alliance heals in the future once shortbow gets put on vindicator and they don’t know how else to nerf the rise of power/cele vindicator in WvW.

[arazoth.7290]

48 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

THIS IS A WVW POINT OF VIEW…

We got some stab on Ventari, which while nice, can be a gimmick to apply in a hectic fight due to the empower mechanic. If you only spam the elite, then yeah, easy stab. If you use any other skill first by necessity or by accident then have fun spending 70 energy to get the stab out. But that’s a whole other issue.

about Vindicator it’s self, it was definitely an over reaction. I hadn’t been too heals or top cleanse even before the last round of nerfs. Hell, our adept minor to heal on dodge in salvation is almost as much as the GM heal on dodge, which is laughable. Out of the last nerfs I would have kept the GM healing the same, but only rescale the barrier. And about Treesong. To me 5 clears was too much, but that just slashed the other source of burst healing. Either compensate their by increasing the heal per remove or just revert the 25e cost and 5s cd back to the old 20e at 3s cd but with the new 3 condis removed. Lastly, the urn. I actually don’t know what’s going on with that. It was strong in the right situations, so I partially agree, but I also never saw the casual heal vindi ever pop it, so idk where the metric of it over performing is coming from. I felt like the risk to reward was basically there. Was just a weird surprise that it was an “issue”

only thing going for Vindi is that it’s a pretty durable healer due to evade uptime. That’s the only reason I can think of for the nerfs after like 6 other rounds of nerfs. I’m sure there’ll be more to come with battle dance and the alliance heals in the future once shortbow gets put on vindicator and they don’t know how else to nerf the rise of power/cele vindicator in WvW.

Following centaur stance and salvation traitline :

° Minor trait serene rejuvenation (Purifying Essence):  3 sec regeneration => 1 sec resolution/condition cleansed + some higher heal/condi cleansed.

° Centaur skill 1 (Project Tranquility): each 3 sec pulsing passive heal (by tablet) grants additionally 2 seconds regeneration.

 

•Vindicator saint viktor tree song: Instead of regeneration => 1 sec resolution/condition cleansed + some higher heal/condi cleansed.

 

It might look stale, but they already did the same thing so why not change them both like these?

Edited August 14, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

54 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Following centaur stance and salvation traitline :

° Minor trait serene rejuvenation (Purifying Essence):  3 sec regeneration => 1 sec resolution/condition cleansed + some higher heal/condi cleansed.

° Centaur skill 1 (Project Tranquility): each 3 sec pulsing passive heal (by tablet) grants additionally 2 seconds regeneration.

 

•Vindicator saint viktor tree song: Instead of regeneration => 1 sec resolution/condition cleansed + some higher heal/condi cleansed.

 

It might look stale, but they already did the same thing so why not change them both like these?

Agreed, it doesn’t need much and moving the regen on the tablet would help immensely. Though I also wouldn’t mind if they reworked the tablet pulse to every second and scale the healing and your suggested regen duration accordingly for ease of use… kinda like how they had to change the pve quickness on facets. 
 

only other change I’d want is a way to get a second empower on Ventari without blowing up the rock. Core and herald have a way to grant a second empower, just need something in renegade and vindicator. 

[arazoth.7290]

yea I was thinking the same, but I didn't want to overdue it.

For renegade Heroic command could do it. While we're add it, heroic command could add for each stance something orientated to the stance used. Citadel Bombardment, in all content a big energy reduction.

For Vindicator Energy meld could something to each stance and what it could (potentialy) do I have written in another post (which I won't talk about here).

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:54 AM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

ok toning it down would be reasonable. But this was overreaction. The Vindicator side of support is not very good or welcoming now. There should be some compensation somewhere from all of this.

The nerfs that Herald sufered are way way harsh then vindicator in terms of heal output vindicator is now far more stronger than Herald miles away.... and they were pretty both leveled before to each other, Anet mudered Herald in that aspect, i guess herald players killed a Anet dev or a friend went to QQ pppfffft.

TDLR Herald lost way more then vindicator all in the name of the pve  lammers and noobs and carry me Anet dady with perma quickness for the useless raids, Anet borked  Elevated compassion outside pve with was a good trait... Btw Elevated compassion  outside pve is actually also giving arround 15% boon duration which is not in the description, for a grand master trait it is a dull one.

Overall Vindicator is way in  much better state than herald for support outside PVE.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Arklite.4013]

On 8/15/2023 at 7:32 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

The nerfs that Herald sufered are way way harsh then vindicator in terms of heal output vindicator is now far more stronger than Herald miles away.... and they were pretty both leveled before to each other, Anet mudered Herald in that aspect, i guess herald players killed a Anet dev or a friend went to QQ pppfffft.

TDLR Herald lost way more then vindicator all in the name of the pve  lammers and noobs and carry me Anet dady with perma quickness for the useless raids, Anet borked  Elevated compassion outside pve with was a good trait... Btw Elevated compassion  outside pve is actually also giving arround 15% boon duration which is not in the description, for a grand master trait it is a dull one.

Overall Vindicator is way in  much better state than herald for support outside PVE.

That's all well and good, but nobody's talking about herald

[Aeolus.3615]

18 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

That's all well and good, but nobody's talking about herald

TDLR vindicator is fine :) if its better.

The only thing i would complain in vindi is the barrier felt a bit weak BUT still the barrier would be to strong due how spam heal dodge  while removing aoe condi and aplying protection  can happen all in a dodge if one abuse the dodge spam barrier is ok'sih.

Vindicator dodge is still strong if well traited with the right traits.

 

 

On 8/14/2023 at 5:54 AM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

ok toning it down would be reasonable. But this was overreaction. The Vindicator side of support is not very good or welcoming now. There should be some compensation somewhere from all of this.

The compensation is its way better than herald for support rather slightly better. :P outside pve ofc.

Herald is just picked over  in PVE because the perma quickness for lamers which i think is broken as f* and puts Vindicator in the "we dont want/need Vindicators other classes to everything else better".

On WvW Vindicator support is still strong...it just deppends how much u leap spam, i think that's the class mechanics Anet wants players to use.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

TDLR vindicator is fine 🙂 if its better.

The only thing i would complain in vindi is the barrier felt a bit weak BUT still the barrier would be to strong due how spam heal dodge  while removing aoe condi and aplying protection  can happen all in a dodge if one abuse the dodge spam barrier is ok'sih.

Vindicator dodge is still strong if well traited with the right traits.

 

 

The compensation is its way better than herald for support rather slightly better. 😛 outside pve ofc.

Herald is just picked over  in PVE because the perma quickness for lamers which i think is broken as f* and puts Vindicator in the "we dont want/need Vindicators other classes to everything else better".

On WvW Vindicator support is still strong...it just deppends how much u leap spam, i think that's the class mechanics Anet wants players to use.

 

 

1) Imagine not reading a small text in a discussion because TLDR " lazy".

2) your respect on multipble threads is far to be seen.

3) vindi dodge last major traits to increase the effect by boons, healing/asorb and damage are more then balanced and don't need change.

4) If the boon of archemorus could be shared + some other stuff I made myself a thread about, then vindicator was on same level. Which you can find back if you scroll in my threads. But you probably won't do that since a small text is already too much hassle to read.

5) vindicator support easy carries/holds a group better alive then other supports. It doesn't provides those important boons, but you can make yourself a group and hold them alive a lot easier. It isn't the top because of boon share, but it is top in keeping group alive.

6) I really don't your attitude in many posts, you can keep telling you don't meant it like that. But you keep on using it anyways, which shows low respect 👌

 

[Shao.7236]

Looks like a case of overnerf in WvW, don't see why they'd have to nerf healing AND upkeep on Urn, the evade was too good at release but it doesn't justify otherwise.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Something got to give. The lack of evasions, poor healing numbers against modern burst damage, super high energy cost on Tablet. I can't even explode the tablet while using Protective Solace because of the energy cost. come on. The Dodge heal was super nerfed. Evasion frames nerfed and the amount healed nerfed

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Something got to give. The lack of evasions, poor healing numbers against modern burst damage, super high energy cost on Tablet. I can't even explode the tablet while using Protective Solace because of the energy cost. come on. The Dodge heal was super nerfed. Evasion frames nerfed and the amount healed nerfed

Tablet is more then fine energy wise for elite specs and core. It needs little learning to manage it though yea. Tip, rather explode tablet without barier up and summon it after then with barier. That way you save more energy and give extra protection boon. It is more worth like that then having 1 extra cleanse bc light field blast finisher, rather use after bubble your tablet cleanse or something for more effect. 

Don't waste unnecessary evades, use them when needed, u still have block and dodge aside vindicator Jump evasion

[Aeolus.3615]

Ok.. i am playing Vindicator and see amazing heals which makes me get alot confused about this post, everything i do means several over 1k heals to more closer to 2k and i am not using monk runes, the only thing i have difilcty is to incrase barrier output but  that scales with both vit+heal power so i probably wont even reach most of u values, i am only getting arround 600 barrier lol.

Which stats u yall playing? I assume every 1 here only uses minstrell? or isnt that correct?

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Sooo what is actually good about vindicator now? Is it basically berserk on war before the buffs?

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

Sooo what is actually good about vindicator now? Is it basically berserk on war before the buffs?

On WvW  small to larger scale(large scale but even numbers and not omni blob) on power build i have huge difficulty to play it IDK if its my mediocrity but ic's other teams power Vindi's strugle so yeah is a warriorish but w/o the warrior feel, , on support stats(non minstrel since i refuse to play those stats) it's a whole beast for what i am experiencing.

IMO vindicator power builds are in much more troubled zone than dedicated support roles for the spec, IF Anet would have to compensate for anything wich i dont it's a compensation situation, they just need to make vindicator  power builds work decently outside pve.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Aeolus.3615